54175 replies to this topic

[ThroughWithLove]

 

Naruto looks pretty angry to me? I'm not sure where you are getting this very laid back idea at all.

 

Yeah . . . no.

 

 

 

And that's just looks alone.Dialogue wise, there is zero anger from Naruto throughout that entire chapter or any part of this reunion for that matter. Read for yourself: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/485/2

[ThroughWithLove]

Okay, I see these as all more intense anger/(rage fits better).

 

Because Naruto's eyebrows are narrowed, and while his teeth aren't baring, his look is certainly displeasure. CHEERFUL suggests a smile, and certainly not raised eyebrows. If we are all out refusing the word angry for the panel in the page before, he is absolutely displeased.

 

You can argue he is not -as- angry, as he is in this picture, certainly determined to face him down, which he does moments later, but...you are saying he is Cheerful? Not even in the same sphere of emotion here.

 

I look at the panels and the dialogue. If you read the chapter, he basically tells Sasuke "cut it out" real quick before commencing with the standard talk no jutsu speech. It just doesn't look like the kind of reaction you'd think he'd have for someone (even if that someone is Sasuke) who nearly killed one of his closest friends seconds ago. At very least, a "Have you lost your damn mind? What the hell do you think you're doing?!" Instead, it's all like "Sakura's your teammate, right? Whatever. Hey can we be friends again?!? Pretty please!"

 

Already covered the cheerful part. 

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 06 August 2017 - 06:44 AM.

[ThroughWithLove]

It is a Plea for Sasuke to stop his path of darkness and rejoin the team, consistent really with what Naruto is trying to do. He's Determined. I fail to see the problem with this narratively.

 

Determination doesn't excuse him coming off as an insensitive psychopath (which he escalates even further once we get to all this death-together talk). Just because he wants to bring Sasuke back doesn't mean he has to act like nearly killing Sakura is no big deal. 

[Riverkid]

 

Determination doesn't excuse him coming off as an insensitive psychopath (which he escalates even further once we get to all this death-together talk). Just because he wants to bring Sasuke back doesn't mean he has to act like nearly killing Sakura is no big deal. 

its just him knowing that sakura got plotarmor by kishimoto.. so no big deal /s

There were many situations where Naruto acted strange or weird, atleast not proper. There u can feel the influence from the writer to disturb the designed character, also without providing any characterdevelopment to justify his weird reactions/acting.

[Shashank95]

its just him knowing that sakura got plotarmor by kishimoto.. so no big deal /s

There were many situations where Naruto acted strange or weird, atleast not proper. There u can feel the influence from the writer to disturb the designed character, also without providing any characterdevelopment to justify his weird reactions/acting.

 

It's just another attempt from Kishi to ensure Sasuke is not held responsible for his acts.

[Riverkid]

 

It's just another attempt from Kishi to ensure Sasuke is not held responsible for his acts.

 because daddy-naruto is here to fix everything for him.

Sasuke could basically throw a knife into kakashis eyes, and naruto would use his 'jesus-power' to fix them: "dont worry sasuke, see? everything is fine.. so u did nothing wrong"

[ThroughWithLove]

But he doesn't come off as an insensitive psychopath. Nothing shows lack of sensitivity or psychopath characteristics. It's an entirely inaccurate description of Naruto'a emotions, and the character in general.

 

You're entitled to your opinions, but I'd say there's a reason almost everyone came away with the impression that Naruto and Sasuke were crazed lunatics while reading the various interactions between the two:

 

During a chapter, Naruto tells Itachi that Sasuke is like a brother to him. Is that what you were going from the start ?

 

Kishimoto : I wanted them to be more brothers than blood brothers. I can tell you that is for me the hardest thing to put into words in this story. And it still is.

People who actually lived through harsh separations and death of loved ones often write me and tells me they can actually relate to them.

When I am close to someone, I’m scared kittenless of one day that bond will be severed. Loneliness does scares me to death.

This may be hard to put into words, but I’ll still try to make my point stand to the readers.

 

So you think you still didn’t really managed to put into words what is the relation between Naruto and Sasuke ?

 

Kishimoto : I don’t know. Maybe I didn’t as well as I wanted to, and because of that almost everyone thinks both of them are crazy lunatics.

From on now, everything will rely on how well I can put their relation into words.

 

 

Source: http://yagami1211.tu...3-naruto-kizuna

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 06 August 2017 - 05:14 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

 because daddy-naruto is here to fix everything for him.

Sasuke could basically throw a knife into kakashis eyes, and naruto would use his 'jesus-power' to fix them: "dont worry sasuke, see? everything is fine.. so u did nothing wrong"

 

The sad part is that this is actually spot on. And frankly, I don't think someone needs to be the hokage if they're willing to throw away common sense and decency all for the sake of appeasing one friend to the point that he isn't even allowed to give him a good tongue lashing.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 06 August 2017 - 05:07 PM.

[BlackShirtGuy]

 

The sad part is that this is actually spot on. And frankly, I don't think someone needs to be the hokage if they're willing to throw away common sense and decency all for the sake of appeasing one friend to the point that he isn't even allowed to give him a good tongue lashing.

The Naruto series and also the character just LOVES to kiss the Uchiha's asses like seriously:
Itachi- "I killed my whole clan including my family, I only spared my brother because reasons just in CASE the Uchihas revolted" Naruto: "For me, Itachi Uhicha was a hero"
Obito- "My teammeate and love died by the hands of my friend which I left with the responasbility to protect, I also killed your parents, your first bond parents and killed a lot of people, just so the whole world could live an illusion, oh by the way my dream before all this was being Hokage too" 
Naruto- To me Obito Uchiha was the coolest guy eveeeer!!
Sasuke- "I betreayed my village, refused to go with people who risked their own lives for me, killed a Hokage substitute, probably killed a lot of ninjas trying to kill the 5 kages, tried to kill my ex teacher and teammates who still wanted to help me (one of them, several times) "
Naruto- "Nah fam, it's all good, you didn't kill anybody important so I forgive you and, by extension, everyone has to do the sameeee"
EXTRA:
Hardocre SS fans reaction: "NO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND SASUKE'S WAS UNDER THE CURSE OF HATRED, JUST LIKE HOW ANAKIN AND DARTH VADER ARE DIFFERENT PERSON, HE WASN'T HIMSELF WHEN HE TRIED TO KILL SAKURA, HE ACTUALLY LOVES HEEEER!!!" (I saw a comment like this I swear to god, theese people doesn't know logic)
 

Edited by BlackShirtGuy, 06 August 2017 - 06:04 PM.

[Kagomaru]

The Naruto series and also the character just LOVES to kiss the Uchiha's asses like seriously:
Itachi- "I killed my whole clan including my family, I only spared my brother because reasons just in CASE the Uchihas revolted" Naruto: "For me, Itachi Uhicha was a hero"
Obito- "My teammeate and love died by the hands of my friend which I left with the responasbility to protect, I also killed your parents, your first bond parents and killed a lot of people, just so the whole world could live an illusion, oh by the way my dream before all this was being Hokage too" 
Naruto- To me Obito Uchiha was the coolest guy eveeeer!!
Sasuke- "I betreayed my village, refused to go with people who risked their own lives for me, killed a Hokage substitute, probably killed a lot of ninjas trying to kill the 5 kages, tried to kill my ex teacher and teammates who still wanted to help me (one of them, several times) "
Naruto- "Nah fam, it's all good, you didn't kill anybody important so I forgive you and, by extension, everyone has to do the sameeee"
EXTRA:
Hardocre SS fans reaction: "NO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND SASUKE'S WAS UNDER THE CURSE OF HATRED, JUST LIKE HOW ANAKIN AND DARTH VADER ARE DIFFERENT PERSON, HE WASN'T HIMSELF WHEN HE TRIED TO KILL SAKURA, HE ACTUALLY LOVES HEEEER!!!" (I saw a comment like this I swear to god, theese people doesn't know logic)
 

 

The Naruto series and also the character just LOVES to kiss the Uchiha's asses like seriously:
Itachi- "I killed my whole clan including my family, I only spared my brother because reasons just in CASE the Uchihas revolted" Naruto: "For me, Itachi Uhicha was a hero"
Obito- "My teammeate and love died by the hands of my friend which I left with the responasbility to protect, I also killed your parents, your first bond parents and killed a lot of people, just so the whole world could live an illusion, oh by the way my dream before all this was being Hokage too" 
Naruto- To me Obito Uchiha was the coolest guy eveeeer!!
Sasuke- "I betreayed my village, refused to go with people who risked their own lives for me, killed a Hokage substitute, probably killed a lot of ninjas trying to kill the 5 kages, tried to kill my ex teacher and teammates who still wanted to help me (one of them, several times) "
Naruto- "Nah fam, it's all good, you didn't kill anybody important so I forgive you and, by extension, everyone has to do the sameeee"
EXTRA:
Hardocre SS fans reaction: "NO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND SASUKE'S WAS UNDER THE CURSE OF HATRED, JUST LIKE HOW ANAKIN AND DARTH VADER ARE DIFFERENT PERSON, HE WASN'T HIMSELF WHEN HE TRIED TO KILL SAKURA, HE ACTUALLY LOVES HEEEER!!!" (I saw a comment like this I swear to god, theese people doesn't know logic)
 

Precisely.  People home in on Sasuke when it comes to his immunity to personal responsibility and consequence, but that's mainly because he's the most prevalent.  ALL of the damn Uchihas get a freakin' excuse so they can't be held accountable for their actions; and it's a wonder Kishimoto didn't make Sasuke the titular main protagonist given how much favortism is given to him and his family when compared to Naruto.

Edited by Kagomaru, 06 August 2017 - 07:29 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

Has anyone who has a fanfiction account been able to get in it or did it move cause it says it's up just can't get into anything? If anyone can tell me what's going on that'd great.

[Aevrum]

I just wanted to add a few things, because I'm bored:

Naruto didn't love Hinata instantly eight years ago. It was a gradual growing process. The Last served to explain that Naruto did not understand love. This is not a Retcon either, as it doesn't differentiate anything shown before, but serves to help make it clearer for those who didn't understand, the Sage of Six Paths also points out that if Naruto pointed his eye inward, he's understand a lot more about himself, which really highlights something also displayed consistently, Naruto does not always understand his own emotions. It took him a long time to understand Sasuke.

I think I have a Dejavu.

The 'process' started with the confession scene.
You can't count the proud failure speech; I won't elaborate this, you know why it can't.
And it wasn't gradual. It was a clear and distinct three-step-process: Pain-War-Last
There is nothing to suggest otherwise, it is never stated anywhere that it went differently, and one was easily able to observe this.

What does this random quote of the Sage have to do with romance?

Where did Naruto not understand his own emotions? Please show me an example, I am really curious.

He didn't understand Sasuke because he himself hadn't lost family. He didn't know how it feels to lose his family, his loved ones, his everyday life - that was why he couldn't grasp Sasuke's emotions fully.
It has nothing to do with a emotional inability.
I think you missed a whole important part of the series. You should really reread into his 'relationship' with Sasuke.

You KNOW the Last doesn't work with your interpretation of it. But somehow you are still repeating it. I thought we had discussed this here and you had nothing left to add.
They only use the 'doesn't understand,-never-realizes' motives they use in The Last because they don't have any development given by Kishi for the 2-year-gap and have to make it fast. I can guarantee you that it would have never been explained like in The Last, if there would have been more time/a different plattform to show it.
It isn't even because of NH (OK partly, because it was not really developed in the Manga), it's, like you said a few weeks ago, because of the problem to fit it all into one movie with adding a story to it.

Plus people are really overinterpretating The Last. It is not THAT complex, and Naruto's love for Hinata is not a fairytale 'I-grew-to-see-who-you-really-are-and-you-are-everything-in-my-life-soulmate-most-beautiful-thing-on-the-world-I-would-die-for-you' love. It is purely resolution-driven and happens only because you can't let Hinata and Naruto hanging.

"Him saying how he hates people who lie to themselves but then it results he lied to himself about loving his own teammate, which resulted in her almost getting killed!!!"
 
Naruto actually never says he loves Sakura in the manga. I don't want to say that Naruto didn't love her, but this is a good point to understand. Sakura serves to further elaborate on this love/crush, that it wasn't the same as the sort of love he had for Hinata, it was a rivalry, which also isn't a Retcon, as it keeps in pace with what is established in the manga.

She doesn't compare it with Naruto's love for Hinata. She compares it with her love for Sasuke and Hinata's love for him.
It wouldn't even make sense at all for her to compare it in that situation with his love for Hinata.

Where is it established that it is a rivalry? Please explain and show me that.
You know that it goes against the dynamics introduced in chapter 3. And literally every scene afterwards.

It doesn't matter that he never says that.
It wouldn't matter if he would hate her like hell.
I honestly don't understand with what you are even trying to argument here. The things you write have nothing to do with what was written above it, but still:
SHE THINKS that he loves her. I doesn't matter if this is true or not. If The Last is correct, Naruto is acting there like a egoistic drama queen. Not to say that the whole scene would make no sense. And your so called trial.

(A short semi-random insertion: Do you know what makes Sai's dialogue with Naruto beforehand so much more fraught with meaning? Because it is a mirror image to his "How can I be Hokage, if I even can't save a friend?" speech.)

"Naruto wasn't never the perfect human being, as some people think he is (like Hinata or you maybe I don't know) he said the guy who killed his parents was the coolest guy ever, he was totally okay with his "best friend" Sasuke when he almost killed the love of his life(oh wait the last retcon, nah never mind that got fixed)"
 
If you re-read the Proud Failure Speech, you'll have Hinata specifically say that Naruto is flawed, but what she likes about him is that he keeps standing up -despite- those flaws. I also acknowledge Naruto isn't perfect, and never have said he was. Really, Naruto's remark on Obito is in line with the character, he's forgiving, and he's referring to the Good in Obito. But this quote is taken out of context, literally sometimes, put in a panel with a bunch of dead people around. No, Naruto was not okay with Sasuke killing his friends, he was determined to stop him, being the only force standing in his way that could stop him at the end of the Manga.
 
The Last didn't make Naruto OOC, nor do "anything", really to him.

Oh great, again Hinata, sighh.
Don't get me wrong, I love that scene, but do you really have to use every little tiny opportunity to go into NH?
Please, it only looks bad. The speech has nothing to do with the problems faced with Sasuke, Nagato, Obito and the war. It has nothing to do with questions of morality.
Plus the motives addressed in the speech are all thrown over board in part 2(And I remember you calling that fact 'not bad writing'.)

You don't understand. What he does IS in line with how his character develops later.
But that's not a good thing. Not at all. Naruto loses every kind of rationality. What he is talking about is turning into bullsh*t that maybe would work on a ideal phantasy world with phantasy humans.
The worst thing is: It actually kinda works and there is nearly zero objection.

I personally can live with Sasuke.
But the Akatsuki/Madara thing is ridiculous.
Two examples:
-His fight with Pain. We get to know extensively Nagato's backstory, what he lived through, why he does what he does, and so on. Most of the leaf is DEAD. Naruto's loved ones are dead.
But during the talk between the two this doesn't matter, Naruto only cares about his own picture of a future perfect world, and his "I don't have an answer yet, but will do my best" somehow gives Nagato hope again. Wtf? What happened? We are talking about the same person that killed his teacher that saved him, without showing any reservations.
And afterwards magically Nagato has the power to revive everyone again. Voilà, Naruto doesn't have to live with any consequences anymore. Great.

-Obito. He makes Naruto eat his own words of "not letting anyone die" with killing several persons around him. He shows him the cruelties and the hopelessness. That he lied to Nagato back in the cave and has no real opinion of how to make things better.
But what's the result? Same procedure as with Nagato.
I can't believe how they threw such promising things out of the window so easily.
And the cycle of hatred is somehow broken because they fought against a single enemy who was dealt with. Okay, but what has this to do with the problems Nagato talked about? And doesn't it only confirm what Madara was talking about? What was Naruto's role in everything beside simply beating the enemy, what did he do except helping dead people find peace? Why should the living people change now (except the high militaries of the major villages)?

It's disappointing really, he changed nothing.

Edited by Aevrum, 06 August 2017 - 11:12 PM.

[ThroughWithLove]

 

To a point yes, but saying Naruto is cheerful here is like saying Grass is Pink.

 

 

 

 

 

^Cheerful.

[Shashank95]

Kishi has a real hard-on for the uchihas which basically ruined the whole entire story since everything after the pain arc revolved in one way or the other around Uchihas.

Every one of the Uchihas got stupidly overpowered and nonsense power-ups while all others were left in the dirt. 

You know, after all these years I still find it hard to understand how an eye that was merely used to improve perception and copy moves evolved into something that can shoot out Unquenchable flames, giant constructs and alter frickin reality itself. 

[The Doctor forever]

Kishi has a real hard-on for the uchihas which basically ruined the whole entire story since everything after the pain arc revolved in one way or the other around Uchihas.

Every one of the Uchihas got stupidly overpowered and nonsense power-ups while all others were left in the dirt. 

You know, after all these years I still find it hard to understand how an eye that was merely used to improve perception and copy moves evolved into something that can shoot out Unquenchable flames, giant constructs and alter frickin reality itself. 

Oh we all know Kishi loved the Uchiha the fact he made up a reason why they are kittens so readers could feel sorry for them is telling to me man I mean remember that he said Madara was at Nappa's power which I find funny as hell I mean come on we all know as weak as Nappa would be now he would simple one shot Madara.

 

It's just Kishi getting his hard on for the Uchiha that he loves this is shown a lot with Sasuke as well, oddly my friend Evil100 will be doing a crossover with Pan in the Naruto world along with her mother, now he said Pan is not a super Saiyan and Sasuke being the evil kitten he is almost kills Videl.

 

Think on how that will go, he said that Sasuke will just laugh at Pan which we all know what this will lead too and here is the Ironic thing Sakura, Sasuke and Naruto as well as many others have no idea about Super Saiyan, as the only ones who do know about it are Kakashi and Tsunade.

 

So in short Pan or super Saiyan Pan in fit of Saiyan rage, (She is Gohan Daughter after all) gose ape kitten on Sasuke, he losses an arm a leg and his left eye, Pan really kittens him up hell he said she is toying with like how Gohan did with Cell, as she says to Kakashi and Sakura. "No I want him to suffer some more."

 

What is funny is Naruto Rasengans her while she is not seeing him as she is mainly focused on making Sasuke suffer as much as she can, but Evil100 said all this does is piss Pan off.

[Shashank95]

Madara needed the Juubi to cause a city size devastation, Nappa did it with a flick of his fingers at his base state.

Edited by Shashank95, 07 August 2017 - 10:02 AM.

[The Doctor forever]

Madara needed the Juubi to cause a city size devastation, Nappa did it with a flick of his fingers at his base state.

Which goes to show Kishi is fill of himself and the love he has for the Uchiha, add to the fact Vegeta blow up a Planet in the filler, if you count it that is, I do count the Teamfourstar version.

 

"This is Vegeta, he was a prison kitten."

[Yyubie]

Nappa in osaru mode (giant ape) will use madara as his toothbrush.

[Shashank95]

Nappa in osaru mode (giant ape) will use madara as his toothbrush.

 

I think Base Nappa could wreck Madara's kitten. He's not fast and neither is strong enough on his own to take down even ninjas without Juubi.

[The Doctor forever]

 

I think Base Nappa could wreck Madara's kitten. He's not fast and neither is strong enough on his own to take down even ninjas without Juubi.

Mkes me wonder why Kishi even said that Madara was on the same power as Nappa in the first place?