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#381 KnS

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 06:27 PM

QUOTE (redragon88 @ Sep 16 2012, 03:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
After Obito died Rin started visiting his grave every day or as much as she could. She starts reflecting on the fact that Obito loved her and how he was the one that wanted to rescue Rin from the Rock ninja and convinced Kakashi to do so as well. Also, she keeps remembering over and over again all of the good times she enjoyed with Obito and comes to realize how much she cared for him that it was even to the point of love. You could say it would be one of those "You don't know what you have until you loose it" type of moments.

But she feels crushed by the sad reality that even though she now loves him as well that it doesn't change the fact that he's dead, so everyting it's too late now. That depression probably affects her mental concentration which might've indirectly caused her death.

And about Kakashi, maybe inbetween all of those events above he might want to be with Rin (either because he now likes her as well or just to make her feel better) but instead encounters a reluctant Rin who doesn't know what to do with herself thanks to her new found feelings for Obito.

You know, as I was writing my original comment I thought of you, and guessed that if you were around you'd counter with something like this. wink.gif

As for what you said above, it seems as possible and viable as anything else. Looking through the prism of Kishimoto's parallels, he could choose to relate Rin's posthumous love of Obito with Tsunade's for Jiraiya. But for me, I would rather see Kakashi get the emotional focus. I would like to see that, compared to his team counterparts Orochimaru and Sasuke, Kakashi learned from his mistakes early on and had a heart with romantic feelings for someone even if it was doomed and caused him more pain.

Since Kakashi is an important character and one we've followed from the very beginning, I'm more invested in him and his personal struggles and demons than I am Obito's. I am sympathetic to Obito, but he exists in the story because of his relationship to Kakashi and Kakashi's personal growth. For that reason I look for Kakashi's development first, and think it would make a better story to see one of the characters in the "emotionally cold" role grow and experience a true, sacrificial, romantic love.


QUOTE (Nefertieh @ Sep 16 2012, 05:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I thought about that as well. That would really be twisting the knife. xD Or maybe Obito will realise that his dreams and ambitions live on with his friend.

That would be interesting, and would go a long way toward salvaging the kind, thoughtful Obito we met in the Gaiden.


QUOTE (candycane-chan @ Sep 16 2012, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
@ dovahkin : exactly,.......he said himself that he would've left her ,so he acually kind of makes old sasuke look like a noble man ,and yes it was about obito but rinndid have an affect not as much as obito did anyway

Yes, he said he would have left her back when he was a kid -- before the harrowing experience of losing Obito because of his mistaken outlook and hesitation to help save Rin.

Kakashi was a victim of prejudice and scorn because of his father, and he was trying to do the right thing and do it by the book because he was young and inexperienced. It wasn't that he didn't care about Rin, or didn't have it in him to love her, it was that he was struggling to overcome the suffering he had already experienced in his life and was confused by his priorities. Everything we know about Kakashi now proves he was profoundly changed by Obito's nindo and sacrifice.

We should think carefully before judging Kakashi for an attitude he had in childhood -- before he learned a painful lesson and had his eyes opened. We should think carefully before assuming Kakashi's heart, maturity level, and viewpoint remained so unaffected that he could never have loved someone who loved him. That's what a lot of people say about Sakura, and why they say NS will never happen.




#382 candycane-chan

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 06:47 PM

/\ you misunderstood me sweatdrop.gif
I meant the kakashi that didn't witness his friend being crushed to save his comrades ,I know that he's a different person now.And i'm sure that rin's death affected him ,but not as much as obito's.

#383 KnS

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:03 PM

QUOTE (candycane-chan @ Sep 16 2012, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
/\ you misunderstood me sweatdrop.gif
I meant the kakashi that didn't witness his friend being crushed to save his comrades ,I know that he's a different person now.And i'm sure that rin's death affected him ,but not as much as obito's.

Yeah, sorry. It's because you said "exactly" in response to dovahkiin's post, which included the words, "obito's death had more impact on kakashi than rin's so it's shown that he really didnt care about her." I took that to mean you were agreeing "exactly" that Kakashi didn't really care about Rin.

It's just me interpreting absolute state words again. When reading and people use words such as exactly or impossible, I assume they mean exactly or impossible, lol. Don't mind me.

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#384 candycane-chan

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:07 PM

lol it's fine happy.gif
I think next time I should probably bold the part that I'm reffering to sweatdrop.gif
so ....do you think chapter 602 will come out early like the previous one

#385 Nefertieh

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:10 PM

QUOTE (dovahkiin @ Sep 17 2012, 04:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
his purpose is not to bring her back, but do something about the world.


Yes, but I was replying to the theory that he wants to do something about the world, because he cannot bring her back.

Edited by Nefertieh, 16 September 2012 - 07:10 PM.

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#386 candycane-chan

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:15 PM

QUOTE (Nefertieh @ Sep 16 2012, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, but I was replying to the theory that he wants to do something about the world, because he cannot bring her back.

why can't he bring her back,I still don't know why he hasn't revived her before .
he wants to do something to the world because of the crap madara fead him up with,which we will now about in the 1 day and a half ,i don't think its because he CAN'T bring her back maybe becausw in this world everyone is destined to lose his precious people ...maybe sweatdrop.gif

#387 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:33 PM

QUOTE (Nefertieh @ Sep 16 2012, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, but I was replying to the theory that he wants to do something about the world, because he cannot bring her back.


Oh dear lord, srsly it's not because he cant bring her back did u read kakashi gaiden?, changing the world was one of his desires, rin died he come with another plan, he is different than naruto he dont believe that the people one day will understand each other and the wars will end, even if he bring rin back will not change the world, so he comes with this plan he will get rin in the end and will change the world putting everyone into a genjutsu.

he will probably die or be trapped in this genjutsu forever he dont care about his life anymore.

Edited by dovahkiin, 16 September 2012 - 07:34 PM.

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#388 T XD

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:58 PM

QUOTE (candycane-chan @ Sep 16 2012, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
why can't he bring her back,I still don't know why he hasn't revived her before .
he wants to do something to the world because of the crap madara fead him up with,which we will now about in the 1 day and a half ,i don't think its because he CAN'T bring her back maybe becausw in this world everyone is destined to lose his precious people ...maybe sweatdrop.gif

QUOTE (dovahkiin @ Sep 16 2012, 10:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh dear lord, srsly it's not because he cant bring her back did u read kakashi gaiden?, changing the world was one of his desires, rin died he come with another plan, he is different than naruto he dont believe that the people one day will understand each other and the wars will end, even if he bring rin back will not change the world, so he comes with this plan he will get rin in the end and will change the world putting everyone into a genjutsu.

he will probably die or be trapped in this genjutsu forever he dont care about his life anymore.

sweat.gif
It seems there's some misunderstanding. We know that Obito wants to change the world by his own view. We were saying that Rin could not be resurrected cause her body is missing but the possibility of her resurrection by any other way and by any person or through something, still could be.

Edited by T XD, 16 September 2012 - 08:01 PM.


#389 candycane-chan

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 08:23 PM

QUOTE (T XD @ Sep 17 2012, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
sweat.gif
It seems there's some misunderstanding. We know that Obito wants to change the world by his own view. We were saying that Rin could not be resurrected cause her body is missing but the possibility of her resurrection by any other way and by any person or through something, still could be.

well that was embaressing mellow.gif
but what are your theories on the identity if the person who could revive her headscratch.gif
maybe we'll get more into this idea after obito's flashback

#390 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 08:23 PM

QUOTE (T XD @ Sep 16 2012, 07:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
sweat.gif
It seems there's some misunderstanding. We know that Obito wants to change the world by his own view. We were saying that Rin could not be resurrected cause her body is missing but the possibility of her resurrection by any other way and by any person or through something, still could be.


do you think the possibility that he did not want to ressurrect her?
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#391 T XD

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 08:33 PM

QUOTE (candycane-chan @ Sep 16 2012, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
well that was embaressing mellow.gif
but what are your theories on the identity if the person who could revive her headscratch.gif
maybe we'll get more into this idea after obito's flashback

There's Orochimaru if he could use Edo tensei since he's revived but the body of Rin is going to be needed and for other potential characters who can do that, well i have nothing. If it will be that way, it will be a person which we'll know then that he has ability to revive but it could be, possibly, through something like an activated technique by some villain.

QUOTE (dovahkiin @ Sep 16 2012, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
do you think the possibility that he did not want to ressurrect her?

Yes. We don't know specifically if he wanted her resurrected as alive again, that why there was a considering also on the other opposite possibility.

Edited by T XD, 16 September 2012 - 08:51 PM.


#392 redragon88

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:14 PM

QUOTE (KnS @ Sep 16 2012, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know, as I was writing my original comment I thought of you, and guessed that if you were around you'd counter with something like this. wink.gif

As for what you said above, it seems as possible and viable as anything else. Looking through the prism of Kishimoto's parallels, he could choose to relate Rin's posthumous love of Obito with Tsunade's for Jiraiya. But for me, I would rather see Kakashi get the emotional focus. I would like to see that, compared to his team counterparts Orochimaru and Sasuke, Kakashi learned from his mistakes early on and had a heart with romantic feelings for someone even if it was doomed and caused him more pain.

Since Kakashi is an important character and one we've followed from the very beginning, I'm more invested in him and his personal struggles and demons than I am Obito's. I am sympathetic to Obito, but he exists in the story because of his relationship to Kakashi and Kakashi's personal growth. For that reason I look for Kakashi's development first, and think it would make a better story to see one of the characters in the "emotionally cold" role grow and experience a true, sacrificial, romantic love.

Oh, is that so? I'm happy I make enough of an impact here that people remeber what I post. biggrin.gif

In all honesty I like the scenario you planted for the events after Obito's "death" and what could've happened between Kakashi and Rin afterwards. But I guess I just like my own theory a little more, that's all.

So you say that you want Kakashi to have developed feelings for Rin so that the emotionally cool guy for once adquired heartwarming feelings, right? I suppose Kakashi would be the most likely candidate for it. Sasuke is a nearly impossible case, and Orochimaru... well... he did say that what he wanted the most was Sasuke-kun's body... so yeah. 111189.gif

I wouldn't mind that Kakashi developed feelings for Rin, but I think it would be more interesting that at the same time Rin developed feelings for Obito. It would be like a reversal of the unrequited feelings. At first Obito loves Rin who loves Kakshi who isn't interested in that, but then it's Kakashi who loves Rin who then loves Obito who can't reciprocate her feelings since he's "gone".

I think that romantic role reversal is something Kishi might dare do, and I would say it would be interesting to see how that ends up affecting the relationship Kakashi and Rin had before her death. For all we know maybe Kakashi decided to do the "always coming late thing" to cheer Rin up since it would remind her of the good times with Obito. Maybe since he now loved her and wanted to make her happy but knew that her heart was with Obito, he decided to develop some habits that could make her feel as if Obito was still with them.

I think in that way the flashback can still be focused on Kakashi's development mostly.

Edited by redragon88, 16 September 2012 - 09:21 PM.


#393 KnS

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 10:49 PM

QUOTE (redragon88 @ Sep 16 2012, 02:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh, is that so? I'm happy I make enough of an impact here that people remeber what I post. biggrin.gif

It is indeed so. Hey, I pay attention to who says what around here. smile.gif


QUOTE (redragon88 @ Sep 16 2012, 02:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In all honesty I like the scenario you planted for the events after Obito's "death" and what could've happened between Kakashi and Rin afterwards. But I guess I just like my own theory a little more, that's all.

Cool. Then we're more or less on common ground with the idea.


QUOTE (redragon88 @ Sep 16 2012, 02:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So you say that you want Kakashi to have developed feelings for Rin so that the emotionally cool guy for once adquired heartwarming feelings, right? I suppose Kakashi would be the most likely candidate for it.

Yes, that's what I'd like to see happen, and I agree that Kakashi is the mostly likely option if Kishimoto were to decide to do something like that.


QUOTE (redragon88 @ Sep 16 2012, 02:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sasuke is a nearly impossible case, and Orochimaru... well... he did say that what he wanted the most was Sasuke-kun's body... so yeah. 111189.gif

Quite honestly, I have less of a problem understanding Orochimaru's motives for wanting Sasuke-kun's body than I do the girls who chase him. At least Orochimaru knows what he's doing and why, and what he really wants out of a relationship with Sasuke if he ever got his wish. I dare say the same cannot be said for Sakura and Ino, et al. Karin... is a different story.


QUOTE (redragon88 @ Sep 16 2012, 02:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wouldn't mind that Kakashi developed feelings for Rin, but I think it would be more interesting that at the same time Rin developed feelings for Obito. It would be like a reversal of the unrequited feelings. At first Obito loves Rin who loves Kakshi who isn't interested in that, but then it's Kakashi who loves Rin who then loves Obito who can't reciprocate her feelings since he's "gone".

I think that romantic role reversal is something Kishi might dare do, and I would say it would be interesting to see how that ends up affecting the relationship Kakashi and Rin had before her death. For all we know maybe Kakashi decided to do the "always coming late thing" to cheer Rin up since it would remind her of the good times with Obito. Maybe since he now loved her and wanted to make her happy but knew that her heart was with Obito, he decided to develop some habits that could make her feel as if Obito was still with them.

I could live with that. It's a nice compromise. I would just like to see Kakashi be a better, more comprehensively decent man than his parallel counterparts. I think he already is by far, but the piece that's missing is romance.




#394 Arachnia

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 11:08 PM

QUOTE (redragon88 @ Sep 16 2012, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh, is that so? I'm happy I make enough of an impact here that people remeber what I post. biggrin.gif

In all honesty I like the scenario you planted for the events after Obito's "death" and what could've happened between Kakashi and Rin afterwards. But I guess I just like my own theory a little more, that's all.

So you say that you want Kakashi to have developed feelings for Rin so that the emotionally cool guy for once adquired heartwarming feelings, right? I suppose Kakashi would be the most likely candidate for it. Sasuke is a nearly impossible case, and Orochimaru... well... he did say that what he wanted the most was Sasuke-kun's body... so yeah. 111189.gif

I wouldn't mind that Kakashi developed feelings for Rin, but I think it would be more interesting that at the same time Rin developed feelings for Obito. It would be like a reversal of the unrequited feelings. At first Obito loves Rin who loves Kakshi who isn't interested in that, but then it's Kakashi who loves Rin who then loves Obito who can't reciprocate her feelings since he's "gone".

I think that romantic role reversal is something Kishi might dare do, and I would say it would be interesting to see how that ends up affecting the relationship Kakashi and Rin had before her death. For all we know maybe Kakashi decided to do the "always coming late thing" to cheer Rin up since it would remind her of the good times with Obito. Maybe since he now loved her and wanted to make her happy but knew that her heart was with Obito, he decided to develop some habits that could make her feel as if Obito was still with them.

I think in that way the flashback can still be focused on Kakashi's development mostly.


I think kakashi used the too late habbits too visit hes friends obito's grave mostly in team 7 and stuff not for rin

#395 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 11:10 PM

QUOTE (redragon88 @ Sep 16 2012, 09:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think that romantic role reversal is something Kishi might dare do, and I would say it would be interesting to see how that ends up affecting the relationship Kakashi and Rin had before her death. For all we know maybe Kakashi decided to do the "always coming late thing" to cheer Rin up since it would remind her of the good times with Obito. Maybe since he now loved her and wanted to make her happy but knew that her heart was with Obito, he decided to develop some habits that could make her feel as if Obito was still with them.

I think in that way the flashback can still be focused on Kakashi's development mostly.


I dont think he had feelings for her it's stated very well after the phrase he said to rin.
I was once a kind of thrase that could abandon you, he rejecter her love simply because of the way he treated her and if wanst obito she could be dead, if kakashi developed feelings for rin the impact would be negative for his character, the same applies with sasuke.

kakashi keep a distance on rin because he felt guilty or he thinks that he did not deserved to live after obito's death, because obito died protecting rin, while kakashi wanted to dispose her for the sake of the mission, i think he could not had rin and live the life that obito wished because he think that he did not deserved it after the things he did and the way he acted.

Edited by dovahkiin, 16 September 2012 - 11:32 PM.

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#396 Dreamer

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 11:35 PM

I think at some point we should get a Hashirama vs. Madara's fight in full detail to help fill in the holes on Madara. I would like to see a gaiden arc dedicated to Hashirama too.

Edited by Dreamer, 16 September 2012 - 11:37 PM.


#397 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 11:47 PM

QUOTE (Dreamer @ Sep 16 2012, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think at some point we should get a Hashirama vs. Madara's fight in full detail to help fill in the holes on Madara. I would like to see a gaiden arc dedicated to Hashirama too.


I think we will not get it after watching madara's power level, i have my doubts on how hashirama could beat madara.
and i have the feeling that if he do it, he will do a bad writing about this.
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#398 Nefertieh

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:33 AM

QUOTE (dovahkiin @ Sep 17 2012, 07:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oh dear lord, srsly it's not because he cant bring her back did u read kakashi gaiden?, changing the world was one of his desires, rin died he come with another plan, he is different than naruto he dont believe that the people one day will understand each other and the wars will end, even if he bring rin back will not change the world, so he comes with this plan he will get rin in the end and will change the world putting everyone into a genjutsu.

he will probably die or be trapped in this genjutsu forever he dont care about his life anymore.


Neither sarcasm nor chatspeak makes your point any more convincing, sorry. And the theory I was responding to wasn't mine, I was just expanding on the idea. When has he said he doesn't believe people would understand each other? Obito has said nothing about revenge, only pure recreation of the world. It isn't out of the realm of possibility that he wants the Infinite Tsukiyomi because he thinks changing to real world is too hard, but because he knows there are some things he cannot change. Such as the death of Rin - at least without her body.
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#399 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:34 AM

QUOTE (Nefertieh @ Sep 17 2012, 04:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Neither sarcasm nor chatspeak makes your point any more convincing, sorry. And the theory I was responding to wasn't mine, I was just expanding on the idea. When has he said he doesn't believe people would understand each other? Obito has said nothing about revenge, only pure recreation of the world. It isn't out of the realm of possibility that he wants the Infinite Tsukiyomi because he thinks changing to real world is too hard, but because he knows there are some things he cannot change. Such as the death of Rin - at least without her body.


i did not use sarcasm he could revive rin but he did not wanted, for obvious reasons, you're just creating an illusion to yourself; rin's death is one of the reason that made obito what he's today but not the main one.

he believe that putting everyone under a genjutsu would bring peace to the world, reviving rin would not achieve this and more what's the point on reviving her if you will end into a genjutsu anyway.

When has he said he doesn't believe people would understand each other?
That's why i told you to re-read some chapters, he talked a lot about things that hope does not exist and the world does not have to need heroes and other stuff, he doesnt believe on jiraya's dream.

Edited by dovahkiin, 17 September 2012 - 10:36 AM.

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#400 Dreamer

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 05:18 AM

QUOTE (dovahkiin @ Sep 16 2012, 06:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think we will not get it after watching madara's power level, i have my doubts on how hashirama could beat madara.
and i have the feeling that if he do it, he will do a bad writing about this.


I'm sure Hashirama can do a lot more than just Makuton based jutsu. Remember Madara didn't have Hashirama's DNA when they fought or a Edo Tensei body so he was vulnerable to say the least.




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