HNNN WE NEED A HELP SECTION AMIRITE \:D/
and LOL how i wanna learn japanese so bad. It's pretty impressive that you've put it on yourself to try that lingo on for size! I'm still undecided on whether to learn French or Japanese for my BA.. Spanish would be most helpful but eh, the way it's turning out I think i'd piss off alotta people if I learned spanich XDXD
also, Japanese would put me on high demand among da weeboos |DANYWAY here's help i found in the awesomesaucy land of Yahoo!Answers:
QUOTE (chirpypotato)
4 can be yon or shi
7 can be nana or shichi
As some of the other people said it depends on what you are counting. Sometimes you can use both sometimes one is more natural than the other.
Example yon gatsu (April) sounds strange. shi gatsu is better.
but you would normally say yon kai (4 times) rather than shi kai.
You just have to get used to these differences. There doesn't seem to be a rule as to why you use one or the other.
or
QUOTE (Puppy Phoenix)
Both 'shi' and 'yon' are used for counting in Japanese. The reason there are two sounds is because there are two counting methods. When the Japanese asked the Chinese to teach them the characters, they often times adopted some form of Chinese sounds with the character. This dramatically changed the Japanese language long ago.
Now there are two main ways of counting in Japanese (1-10). The original system was hitotsu, futatsu, mitsu, yottsu (where yon comes from), itsutsu, mutsu, nanatsu, hatsu, kokonotsu, and tou. The adopted method from the Chinese sounds is ichi, ni, san, shi. go roku, shichi, hachi, kyuu, juu.
Now there are two reasons for four and seven being different. First off 'shi' and 'shichi' sound alike. To avoid confusion, many often use 'yon' and 'nana' to differentiate. Also, 'shi' means death in Japanese and just like we don't have a 13th floor in the West, many places don't have a 4th floor here in Japan.
Now some cases, shi and yon are completely enterchangable. You can count 'ichi, ni, san, shi... or 'ichi, ni, san, yon...'
When it comes to counters (stating a specific number of nouns) it may or may not be interchangeable.
Shigatsu (literally "4th Month" i.e. April). You CANNOT say 'yongatsu.'
Yonnin (lit four people). You CANNOT say "shinin."
Also some forms may mutate like 'yopyaku' (400) from yon (four) and hyaku (100).
Even the natives (and I growing up with Japanese as a second language) have trouble with these. So don't get frustrated. But as stated, when counting straight out, you can use either (I advise yon).
With counters, it is a case-by-case basis. No method at all.
-wa (used for counting birds) 'yomba'
-satsu (for books, magazines, or any bound volume) 'yonsatsu.'
-hiki (for small animals {cats, dogs, rabbits), fish, insects) 'shihiki'
-hon (long round objects like trees, pens, pencils, cigars, cigarettes, etc...) 'yonhon.'
-mai (flat things like paper, cloth, blankets, dishes), 'yomai'
-hai (cups full) 'yonhai' or 'shihai'
-ban (nights) 'yoban' (four nights)
-hako (boxes) 'yonhako' or 'yohako'
-gatsu (months) 'shigatsu' (April)
-kagetsu (duration of months) 'yonkagetsu' or 'shikagetsu' (four months)
-ji (time) 'yonji' (Four O'Clock)
-jikan (duration of hours) 'yonjikan' (four hours).
Too be honest, all numbers do this. You may have to say ichi, ich-, ipp-, hito-, hitotsu, for just the number 1. But four, seven and nine seem to be more radical in this and more perplexing.
Yeah, I know a lot of information to process but I think that should answer your question on many levels. Some cases it's both, some cases it's one or the other. Good luck with your studies.
AND LAST
BECAUSE I GOT BORED BUT NOT LEAST!
QUOTE (nette "don't forget me!")
I live here in Japan and although I don't speak the language fluently, this is how my friends talk. If counting, like 1,2,3,4,
then it's ichi, ni, san. shi. But if it's like referring to something like how many or what number then it's ichiban, niban, sanban, yonban, like 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th. Then if speaking about how many, then it's i ko, ni ko, san ko, yon ko. Confusing I know!
i KNOW that helped, dood. BD
It halped me and i'm
still intimidateded of the ninja-language xD