54175 replies to this topic

[Paptala]

^ I completely agree with you guys, great replies! I share your same opinions!

I'm currently doing a medical check so I can't really give my opinion yet but I'll leave you the link if the pic.

The reason I commented on this deviation it's because this pic was in the NARUSAKU tag

http://bk00.devianta...Loved-382705882

I agree that the point of parallel between Naruto's love for Sakura and Obito's love for Rin is not for Naruto to ultimately let go of Sakura and find another love in Hinata.

 

First of all, Naruto was already willing to let Sakura go when he saw her hugging Sasuke at the hospital and when he made the POAL.  If Sakura chose to be with Sasuke, Naruto would be heartbroken, but he would accept it and move on because Sakura's happiness is and always has been paramount to him.

 

As far as seeing an important person die, he's already watched Neji die, and lost Jiraiya and was pulled from the depair of that.  He was able to move forward despite the losses.

 

So it would be repetition of lessons Naruto has already learned to have the point of the parallels to ultimately be that Naruto should let go of his love for Sakura.

 

Plus, it doesn't make sense when you consider that the latest parallel had Minato telling Obito not to give up on his feelings for Rin, and especially when you consider all the other parallels - was the MinaKushi parallel about letting go and moving on from the girl you love just because she didn't return your feelings at first?  Was the JiraTsu parallel about letting go and moving on from the girl you love just because she always turned you down?  No - it's about enduring and succeeding where the previous generations have failed.

 

This is the new argument or what?? because really 

 

>>

 

ps: I hope this isn't against the rules.. I just bring it to be discussed

The funniest thing about this is that Sai and Minato never said anything about Naruto's feelings - they asked Naruto about his feelings, and Naruto was the one who said, indirectly, that he loves Sakura.  Funny how people always seem to forget that fact.  I think, and I might be going out on a limb here but, its safe to say Naruto knows himself better than Kiba does.

 

Kiba shouted out that Naruto shouldn't act tough just because Hinata is there, and was completely ignored by Naruto.

Edited by Paptala, 08 July 2013 - 04:31 AM.

[Tsubaki]

Thanks Sushi for clearing that up for me 

 

I agree with you all about this argument I brought, giving so much credit to a vague comment from Kiba that was ignored by everyone but try to belittle both Sai and Minato just because they made a comment that doesn't appeal to certain fandons is really bad. Kiba can really know Naruto for many years but he has never been that close to Naruto to be "the one who knows everything" right now ...

 

This isn't even about Kiba or if his comment is valuable or not, It's about trying to make Kiba be more important than Minato or Sai.

 

 

Like all fandoms, there are divisions in the japanese fandom. What I am about to post are from conversations I had with fellow Japanese fans around Sakura's Confession, who do not identify as NaruSaku fans. Actually, one of them is a NaruHina fan. I am posting here because there are some good debate topics. I also added things I found on Japanese blogs.

 

Sakura's Confession Conversation

• point in the story where both Sakura and Naruto do not fully understand each other's feelings. On one side, Sakura believes she is the reason (the promise) of Naruto's suffering over Sasuke. At this point she did not think that Naruto had other reasons besides from her promise and this is widely agreed that Sakura had a misunderstanding of Naruto's feelings. For Naruto, he knows that Sakura is withholding something and is lying, but he does not understand why. He sees the lie because he can see into people's hearts.
• everyone agrees Sakura was indeed lying. indication is that she could not look at Naruto in the eye and her eyes went to the left, which means she is lying (eye aversion ->lying. to me, I don't really believe in the whole left/right eye movement).
• someone brought up that it's possible that she misunderstood him on purpose so that Naruto can hate her.
• a stark contrast of Sakura's hugs to Naruto (first after the Pein arc)

The Hug Part

• Atmosphere important
• After the Pein War hug, the hug is considered the "warm" hug because of the warm atmosphere (end of the war, cheering, etc)
• Confession hug, it is snowing and the hug is considered the "cold" hug. Sakura hugs Naruto so that she does not have to look into his eyes. Knowing she is going to do something unforgivable.
• white snow -> Sakura's "white" lie
• Sakura has to realize her "warmth" comes from Naruto.

What was Sakura lying about/true feelings?

• this part is is pretty tricky. she is lying because she is trying to mislead Naruto from what she is about to do (take down Sasuke) but is she lying about her feelings for Naruto? It is not so easy for anyone to say yes or no. She says them to relieve Naruto from his suffering, is that enough to show that she is affected my Naruto? Sakura is beginning to realize romantic feelings for Naruto.
• she is saying things she subconsciously knows.
• Is Sakura still in love with Sasuke? Mostly no.

A Scrutiny on Kiba's Appearance (469) O_O??

• This part actually really surprised me because I never even thought of it, but it was brought up like 4-5 times. Kiba seems to understand the feelings in the situation? 

 

 

Thanks Megi!!  This is really interesting!!! 

 

I actually agree with this "eye aversion" argument because it's a body language commonly used by people who are lying...

 

This last point made ​​me curious because I always wondered about people's expressions in Sakura's confession.. what they think about it exactly? It's a good point or bad for us?

 

 

----------

 

Paptala, your posts are always so full of win!!! 

Edited by Tsubaki, 08 July 2013 - 05:29 AM.

[ALESSE]

Only time will tell for his path. It's just hard for making a convincing argument that he can return with no hassle. I am aware of moral and all, but it must be done right and understandable. Even that guy from FT still gets in prison time because of his previous actions. Can you erase it? Yes. Does it take a long time? Absolutely. A very long time.

Agree with you there. I mean there only bad memories there for sasuke. Maybe onces he's resolved he ll be welcomed back, but I do see him becoming a wonderer with team taka. Going around helping others or trying to enlighten hjmself. I think naruto realizes this too, to a degree. He just wants to save him from his dark path, not bring him back. He might have realized that sasuke is his own man, all he can do is helping him get straight everything else is his own personal call. I don't see sasuke leaving team taka for anyone and I don't see them settling in khonoha. It's just me. Mostly speculation. But it's not out of the question.

I see sasuke still somehow geting involved/manipulated by madara. Can't wait probably one or two more volumes -

[PhenixElite]

Remember guys,

the ones who say that surpassing the older generation means Naruto moving on from Sakura, are the ones who said that Hinata is like Kushina and Obito is like Sasuke. XD

[TouKen4Life3g]

Hey, someone correct me, but I heard there's another NS week again at tumblr. True or false?

[Gravenimage]

What the?! What's this of Naruto surpassing the old generation he needs to move on from Sakura???

 

-Jiraiya never got his feelings for Tsunade required until it was too late.

 

-Obito never got his feelings for Rin required (for now I'm still waiting for Kishi to show Rin's perspective which I highly believe he will show it through Kakashi). 

 

-Minato married Kushina but his sacrifice against Kurama prevented him from raising Naruto and watching him grow up.

 

The term of the" next generation surpassing the old generation" means Naruto has to "surpass" the actions of the past when it comes to the romantic plotline of the story meaning:

 

-He will have his feelings for Sakura required (with the way Kishi has developed NS it is heading that way and it won't be that long for a big NS moment). 

 

-He will become the Hokage that will end the shinobi system and bring peace to the world.

 

-He will be there to raise his future child and watch him grow up along with his mother which it will be obviously Sakura.

 

For Naruto to move on from Sakura its NOT surpassing the old generation its FAILING with the rest of them. Giving up on her its nothing but failure. This argument of surpassing the old generation he has to move on from the girl he has always love and whose feelings are pure, undying and selfless to the core. This argument is contradicting BS I know we can't bash or bring other fandoms but if this is the new argument they're using to battle NS and prove their pairings have a chance of becoming canon, it has become too silly to describe honestly. It has to be NH and SS or nothing, without any reason of logic or the fact that the manga itself speaks volume that those pairings are irrelevant or pretty much don't exist. 

 

I would like to thank the member who brought up the analysis of Sakura's confession from the Japanese forum. Very good indeed they made pretty solid points and I'm happy to know that they believe she doesn't love Sasuke anymore unlike the fandom from the West who still believe she has remnants feelings for him. It also shows the Japanese fandom can analyze the manga way better than the Western fandom, the Japanese fans knows what Kishi is doing and the message he's trying to bring to the reader. 

Edited by Gravenimage, 08 July 2013 - 10:48 AM.

[HauntedCake]

Hinata? who's she? 

[Paptala]

 

Like all fandoms, there are divisions in the japanese fandom. What I am about to post are from conversations I had with fellow Japanese fans around Sakura's Confession, who do not identify as NaruSaku fans. Actually, one of them is a NaruHina fan. I am posting here because there are some good debate topics. I also added things I found on Japanese blogs.

 

Sakura's Confession Conversation

• point in the story where both Sakura and Naruto do not fully understand each other's feelings. On one side, Sakura believes she is the reason (the promise) of Naruto's suffering over Sasuke. At this point she did not think that Naruto had other reasons besides from her promise and this is widely agreed that Sakura had a misunderstanding of Naruto's feelings. For Naruto, he knows that Sakura is withholding something and is lying, but he does not understand why. He sees the lie because he can see into people's hearts.
• everyone agrees Sakura was indeed lying. indication is that she could not look at Naruto in the eye and her eyes went to the left, which means she is lying (eye aversion ->lying. to me, I don't really believe in the whole left/right eye movement).
• someone brought up that it's possible that she misunderstood him on purpose so that Naruto can hate her.
• a stark contrast of Sakura's hugs to Naruto (first after the Pein arc)

The Hug Part

• Atmosphere important
• After the Pein War hug, the hug is considered the "warm" hug because of the warm atmosphere (end of the war, cheering, etc)
• Confession hug, it is snowing and the hug is considered the "cold" hug. Sakura hugs Naruto so that she does not have to look into his eyes. Knowing she is going to do something unforgivable.
• white snow -> Sakura's "white" lie
• Sakura has to realize her "warmth" comes from Naruto.

What was Sakura lying about/true feelings?

• this part is is pretty tricky. she is lying because she is trying to mislead Naruto from what she is about to do (take down Sasuke) but is she lying about her feelings for Naruto? It is not so easy for anyone to say yes or no. She says them to relieve Naruto from his suffering, is that enough to show that she is affected my Naruto? Sakura is beginning to realize romantic feelings for Naruto.
• she is saying things she subconsciously knows.
• Is Sakura still in love with Sasuke? Mostly no.

A Scrutiny on Kiba's Appearance (469) O_O??

• This part actually really surprised me because I never even thought of it, but it was brought up like 4-5 times. Kiba seems to understand the feelings in the situation? 

 

Wow I had somehow totally missed this before - thanks for sharing this information with us!  From what you said, the consensus amongst non-NaruSaku Japanese fans is that she was lying during her confession, but is beginning to realize romantic feelings for Naruto?  And that those feelings were subconsiously influencing her words and actions during her confession?  Very interesting!  Would you say then that Japanese fans in general believe that NaruSaku is the most likely end pairing?

 

It's great to hear that since this is the audience most likely to get Kishimoto's intent, given that there are no cultural barriers to overcome.

 

I have to say I'm pretty surprised that the fans you spoke with believe for the most part that Sakura isn't in love with Sasuke, mostly because Kishimoto himself confirmed that she was after the summit arc, and also given the fact that SasuSaku is the most popular hetero pairing in Japan (actually, is this part still true?)

 

The Kiba thing seems really random though, lol.  I'm surprised so many brought it up.

 

Now I'm kind of curious what they think of NaruHina and that ships recent moments (i.e. how Japanese fans interpreted 615, before and after 631 was released).

 

Anyways, thanks so much for posting this interesting feedback!

Paptala, your posts are always so full of win!!! 

Thanks so much!

 

Hey, someone correct me, but I heard there's another NS week again at tumblr. True or false?

There is - it started just yesterday.  Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot more hate this week than before (which, from what I saw) was relatively hate free).

 

Apparently, SS fans are upset because NS fans are having a week during their SS Month , and MinaKushi fans are upset at NH and NS fans for bringing up parallels and bringing the shipping war to their tag.  But if you search the tag "narusaku week" instead of the regular "narusaku" tag, you can filter out a lot of it.

Edited by Paptala, 08 July 2013 - 12:21 PM.

[Gravenimage]

Hinata? who's she? 

 

It has come to that certain point. After 631 NH chances have been decreased to a complete 0%. I have never doubted Naruto changing his feelings from Sakura to Hinata and after Minato himself confirmed Kushina=Sakura its clear Naruto will NEVER change his feelings for her. SS chances have also been decreased to a 0% too since Kishi has been only giving the pairing nothing but negativity showing it will be impossible for it to happen. It's only a matter of chapters before he destroys the pairing for good.

[Dalton.T.R]

I read somewhere saying that only 5 or 6 weeks have passed since Sakura's confession. I highly doubt Naruto has moved on from Sakura in such a short amount of time.

[sushi.]

I read somewhere saying that only 5 or 6 weeks have passed since Sakura's confession. I highly doubt Naruto has moved on from Sakura in such a short amount of time.

Yeah, he couldn't have "slowly moved on from Sakura on slowly fallen in love with Hinata" in such a short period of time. That is not slowly.

 

Like I said before, when a Naruto character is in love, it usually lasts for decades. For a pairing to become canon, one of the characters have to be an exception.

[megi]

Well I can elaborate some more, but I do want to say that in my opinion, most believe that Kishi will end with Naruto and Sakura as the romantic couple, but it does not mean they are only NaruSaku fans, there are plenty of SasuSaku, NaruHina, etc just like all other fandoms. I also 

 

"Is Sakura still in love with Sasuke? Mostly no."

What I'm going to post is from conversations with a NaruSaku fan, a NaruHina fan, and the others didn't identify themselves are any pairing fan.

• What is brought up many times is the quote along the line of "A woman's heart changes like the autumn sky". Taking into consideration Tsunade's and Kushina's hearts. Tsunade had come to love Jiraiya when at first she did not, Kushina's heart changes too for Minato. Slowly unknown to herself, Naruto has become close to Sakura's heart and is truly an important person to her. That is why she lies (because she realizes Naruto is an important person. don't you lie to people you are close to sometimes?).
• I want to say that this quote is not taken as a bad connotation for women (such as their hearts are fickle). They are just saying that a woman's heart is complicated haha.
• don't believe that Sakura's love for Sasuke is "love", but a longing for the childhood love she dreamed of (does that make sense?)
• Sakura's love for Sasuke has been fragmented, held together by a childhood dream. Some say they understand it as Sakura trying to hold on to her childhood in time of peace.

*I'm not saying this is everyone's opinion, just the people whom I talk to.

 

NaruHina or SasuSaku moments?

• the NaruHina fan brings up the point that Hinata's confession and Sakura's confession are very different (and are actually pretty close to each other) for a reason. What is the reason? Unfortunately I forgot what he said hahaha but I don't really think there was elaboration.
• Sakura's confession to Sasuke (part one) was from the heart, something that was done out of the desperation to reach Sasuke emotionally. Sakura's confession to Naruto was done to ease his suffering.

Not really my thing to go into other pairing fandoms, but I happened to see a NaruHina fan and art club and visited. I'll put the opinions that I saw

• know that Hinata is not a main character but a sub character, the battle is between whether Naruto will be paired up with the main character (sakura) or with a sub character (hinata).
• 615 big moment - does this mean that Hinata is now a main character? 

As for other moments, I didn't actively look for any opinions or in-depth analysis. I did see a couple of people note that NaruHina took a really big hit during 631, but besides that, I don't really see anybody bring it up. That is of course taking into consideration that I wasn't looking for it ^^. I'm sure there are other opinions about it though. I hope that clears up things.

[sushi.]

How do the Japanese fans feel about the current pairing situation? Is NS set in stone? NH possible? etc

 

Personally I think there are some things we have left, nothing is canon before Naruto accepts one of the confessions/makes a confession of his own without being rejected etc. Canon basically means the pairing is official, which is when they are in a relationship or they kiss.

 

I'm just curious as to how they're dealing with it, because the western pairing fans are as active as ever.

[六道仙人]

http://i.imgur.com/Psgff1V.jpg

 

seems that kishi changed again his editor LOL

[TouKen4Life3g]

There is - it started just yesterday.  Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot more hate this week than before (which, from what I saw) was relatively hate free).

 

Apparently, SS fans are upset because NS fans are having a week during their SS Month , and MinaKushi fans are upset at NH and NS fans for bringing up parallels and bringing the shipping war to their tag.  But if you search the tag "narusaku week" instead of the regular "narusaku" tag, you can filter out a lot of it.

Wait, I thought it was last month. I actually thought they moved it because last month was rather....bad. Oh well. Thank you for telling me.

 

http://i.imgur.com/Psgff1V.jpg

 

seems that kishi changed again his editor LOL

Editor: Wait, you're ending SS!?

Kishi: Yes, the development must draw a conclusion for SS.

Editor: But it's too early! Do you know how much money you will lose with this plan!? Do you know you're playing your NS card too early?!? Why on Earth they're getting this amount of treatment?

Kishi: Because this is my work of art! I rather die than seeing being tarnished by the higher-ups!

Editor: Fine! Go ahead! First you ruined NH, now this. It's over. I'm resigning. I rather not be part of this crap.

Kishi: Fine. You're not the first anyway.

Editor: I should have gone to Fairy Tail...

 

Well, no one touch Kishi.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 08 July 2013 - 06:08 PM.

[Gravenimage]

Wait, I thought it was last month. I actually thought they moved it because last month was rather....bad. Oh well. Thank you for telling me.

 

Editor: Wait, you're ending SS!?

Kishi: Yes, the development must draw a conclusion for SS.

Editor: But it's too early! Do you know how much money you will lose with this plan!? Do you know you're playing your NS card too early?!? Why on Earth they're getting this amount of treatment?

Kishi: Because this is my work of art! I rather die than seeing being tarnished by the higher-ups!

Editor: Fine! Go ahead! First you ruined NH, now this. It's over. I'm resigning. I rather not be part of this crap.

Kishi: Fine. You're not the first anyway.

Editor: I should have gone to Fairy Tail...

 

Well, no one touch Kishi.

 

LOL it would be awesome if that's how it went!

 

As for the bolded I think you hit the nail on the head to how a mangaka feels. Manga is an art Kishi loves his manga, he loves writing his story and he's please that he has many fans that like his work. However he's not going to submit to any of the fandoms. Just because there are more NH and SS fans worldwide it doesn't mean he's going to sell out to those fandom and give in to their demands. It's his story, his manga, his art he's going to do it his way not the fandom's way. I think it makes him happy to see fans who support NS but I think he's not taking sides on the pairings war, he's only following his story and if his story has the development of Naruto and Sakura getting together then it can't be help. 

[Canadian_DJ]

actually, in japan SS is the most popular but NS looks like is catching up in terms of popularity.

NH isnt even popular, NJ is more popular.

[Dkey]

actually, in japan SS is the most popular but NS looks like is catching up in terms of popularity.

NH isnt even popular, NJ is more popular.

 

and yet seeing what megi told us about the Japanese fandom it seems that SS is loosing ground. Not necessarily in number of fans but story wise. Maybe they just don't care which is cannon and ship whatever they like.

[Gravenimage]

 

and yet seeing what megi told us about the Japanese fandom it seems that SS is loosing ground. Not necessarily in number of fans but story wise. Maybe they just don't care which is cannon and ship whatever they like.

 

This^ this is how Kishi must feel too.

[arian_rad]

actually, in japan SS is the most popular but NS looks like is catching up in terms of popularity.

NH isnt even popular, NJ is more popular.

From the forums, it seems that sasusaku knows that narusaku will be the end game. I don't think they care much about which of those couples but just ship they're favorites. At least they are not oblivious to the story.