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Ending with SS in a good way

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#101 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 03:18 AM

if Kishimoto wanted to show that being a ninja was bad, violence was wrong and peace and forgiveness should prevail, Ninja's should be defunct point blank. These kids should be living ordinary lives--but we can't have that because then literally NO ONE would be interested in Burrito. 

Having children who are trained to fight is going to breed "hatred." one way or another. Giving the skills to kill a person as easily as blinking isn't something children handle well period, they don't have a conscious developed enough not to do things they'll regret.

Which in retrospect explains a lot about Sasuke and Itashi :hm: 


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#102 rocci

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 03:45 AM

Sasuke ultimately wasn't portrayed properly to end up with Sakura. To say nothing of how Sakura was portrayed. It's about as appropriate as Sasuke becoming Hokage in the end. Actually, I think that would have been better. Give Sasuke the Hokage spot instead of giving him Sakura. Yes, you destroy one of Naruto's dreams that he spent the entire story striving for. But you did that anyway. This way, Sakura is at least not destroyed, so it's an improvement on what happened.
 
And I can't imagine Sasuke having an arc like Majin Vegeta at all. He was a villain the whole time. Then he sort of loses to Naruto, but not really. Then he becomes good because trying to keep fighting Naruto would be awkward and too much trouble. The existence of Goku made Vegeta feel humiliated. He had no choice but to turn heel again because Goku was only back for one day. Sasuke never had to feel inferior because of Kishimoto liking him so much. He's always able to feel good about himself despite his terrible choices. He has the rest of his life to prove how much cooler he is than Naruto now. It's really pathetic.


Sasuke feel inferior once when he see rasengan effect for the first time in hospital rooftop.

Maybe jealously.

#103 RulesofNature

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 03:56 AM

if Kishimoto wanted to show that being a ninja was bad, violence was wrong and peace and forgiveness should prevail, Ninja's should be defunct point blank. These kids should be living ordinary lives--but we can't have that because then literally NO ONE would be interested in Burrito. 

Having children who are trained to fight is going to breed "hatred." one way or another. Giving the skills to kill a person as easily as blinking isn't something children handle well period, they don't have a conscious developed enough not to do things they'll regret.

Which in retrospect explains a lot about Sasuke and Itashi :hm:

 

In the end, Konoha is still turning it's children into tools of war.

 

You know, people talk about My Hero Academia as being the anti-Naruto, but I think if we look around hard enough we can find all sorts of recent anime and manga that challenge it. There's a manga by Yoko Taro called Thou Shalt Not Die, which probes just how messed up the idea of sending super-powered teenagers to fight wars really is. The non-powered enemies are realistic, and the war they are thrown into is not sugarcoated. Or how Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans played with the usual shonen setup with it's child soldier protagonists who end up following a cult of personality around their leader, pushing them into greater dangers as they embrace violence and killing as a means to support themselves.

 

I guess it's part of being one of the biggest franchises of it's time. Naruto has left it's impact on it's demographic, but that just leads to it being the cliche other comics and shows deconstruct.


Edited by RulesofNature, 03 December 2017 - 03:56 AM.

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#104 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 04:07 AM

Don't get me wrong i have no issues with the whole "Super powered teens/kids." but don't show them in an awesome cool light when what you're trying to shove down my throat is how "Awful" the world they're living in is. Don't tell me one thing and show me another :argh: don't say it needs to change but never change it and try to pretend like it was a happy ending or some BS. Thats a mixed message for me, and for the impressionable kids who were reading it. 


Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 03 December 2017 - 04:07 AM.

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#105 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 11:08 AM

Guh could you actually imagine Sasuke as Hokage? You either get a Fascist or someone who literally does not GAF. 

Well, technically, the Hidden Villages all operate under a military dictatorship anyway, not a democracy, where the Kage's / village leader's word is supposed to be law. Even when choosing a new Kage, it comes down to the decision of the ruling daimyo of the country in who to appoint, not by any vote by the village in question. Konoha was simply painted to look nicer because they had won the most wars ("History is written by the victor" after all), but underneath that paint, behind the scenes, Konoha still operated largely the same as any other Hidden Village; black ops missions, assassinations, sabotage and espionage against other villages, and so on. They would have to if they wanted to stay at the top both militarily and financially with getting jobs from the daimyo and others. It came down to who the Hokage was that allowed Konoha to appear nicer, so really, someone like Danzo was actually more of the rule while the other Hokages sans Tobirama are the exception. Heck, when you get down to things, Danzo really wasn't THAT much different from ones like Ay and Onoki.

 


 

Prt one Naruto wasn't afraid to be gritty and dark. Part one showed that reality is messy and complicated and being a Ninja isn't a joke. Part 2 showed that being a ninja IS A joke and the stakes really are never that high if you've got the right friends. 

 

 

This is one of those areas where the execution of the story fails. Naruto enters the ninja world with bright eyes and big aspirations. He's pretty innocent to the truth of the occupation and the nature of his world is repeatedly shoved into his face. It's a cruel world full of injustices, revenge, grudges and hatred. It's not a nice place.

 

Part of Naruto's character is he's supposed to challenge such a world. He's supposed to see the atrocities and reject them. Forget revenge, screw tradition, let bygones be bygones. This is why he is able to connect to enemies like Haku and Gaara. If you really wanted to get into it  his end game should have been about dismantling the ninja world and even rejecting the idea of becoming Hokage, maybe while Sasuke ends up amassing his followers as he becomes another cog in the system of this world.

 

In the end Naruto does commit to making the world a better place, but it's really a half-assed ending. It's not bad to have idealism, but one must also temper that with maturity. The series lost the latter though as time went on. There's a difference between emphasizing with a guy and saying Obito is the coolest. There's forgiveness and there's letting Orochimaru walk around as a free man. Have they ever cleared up the whole branch family thing with the Hyuuga family? In the end, the series just wants to make being a ninja something any kid would want to do. It's a world trying to sugarcoat itself, and Naruto's son ends up entering the same line of work as his father.  All it wants to say is Naruto's time was better than Kakashi's, Kakashi's childhood was still better than the days before the hidden villages, and Boruto is growing up in a happier time than his father.

 

Plus, SP wanted to continue milking the franchise.

This is something I constantly bring up - that Naruto was never made to truly accept any form reality. He was all idealism, but no reality or actual maturity, and thus not balanced at all. He just became an opposite extreme to ones like Nagato, Obito, Madara, and Sasuke, and one that would be just as bad for the world in the long run. Naruto may have appeared "better" because of being the (so-called) protagonist, but really, he wasn't much different than the "wrong" people he talked down to in that he essentially wants everyone else to think the same way he does, and if they don't willingly conform to his way of thinking (through TnJ), he'll apply (threats of) physical force until they eventually submit out of pain, fear, or something. Even at the end of part one, when Sasuke refuses to return to Konoha when Naruto tries to convince him with words, what does Naruto then do? "I'll drag you back, even if I have to break every bone in your body" - threatens physical force and trying to make Sasuke's decision for him since he won't willingly agree with Naruto's wishes..

 


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#106 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 06:58 PM

The fact of the matter is if you are a human being there are going to be people you can't forgive. The person who essentially made your young life miserable by killing your parents being one of them. There are going to be people you hate. I keep saying this but...the personalities and behaviors of the people in Naruto defy all of human psychology and could be case studies in mental disease.

Naruto is as much of a fascist as Sasuke :lmao: only he masks it under the guise of "being good." Not only that but he's as obsessive as Sasuke is about ONE goal. He cares more about getting Sasuke then he does about becoming Hokage. In retrospect it feels more like bringing Sasuke home is more about him exerting control over his rival then it is about actually caring about Sasuke's welfare. 

I understand that Sasuke is a missing Nin and someone is going to have to go after him, but making it be NARUTO of all people speaks to unethical treatment on Tsunade's part. You don't let doctors operate on their family because it clouds their judgement. They're too close to view things pragmatically and the same was True for team 7.  


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#107 DrK

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 07:09 PM

The fact of the matter is if you are a human being there are going to be people you can't forgive. The person who essentially made your young life miserable by killing your parents being one of them. There are going to be people you hate. I keep saying this but...the personalities and behaviors of the people in Naruto defy all of human psychology and could be case studies in mental disease.

Sakura has to be the worst, though. It's one thing to just SAY the person who ruined your life is the coolest guy. It's another thing to do what Sakura did, which was to not only consider the person who tried to kill you, torture you, and didn't care if you lived or died 15 minutes ago the coolest guy, but also to literally nominate yourself to serve him and his clan for the rest of your life while he doesn't help at all because he still doesn't care.

 

Like what Naruto did was stupid, but he's basically just paying lipservice to insanity at the end of the day. Obito still ended up being dead, it didn't matter. Sakura dismantled her life with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch.



#108 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 07:14 PM

:lmao: Well, true. Who wants to even look at a person who tried to kill them, much less sleep with them even once? Sakura is a lowkey masochist. 


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#109 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 08:04 PM

:lmao: Well, true. Who wants to even look at a person who tried to kill them, much less sleep with them even once? Sakura is a lowkey masochist.


And it fits to how I've said that no one in Naruto really seems to love THEMSELVES really, so they punish themselves... It's as if Kishimoto is telling us he hates himself deep down inside.

#110 DrK

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 08:09 PM

And it fits to how I've said that no one in Naruto really seems to love THEMSELVES really, so they punish themselves... It's as if Kishimoto is telling us he hates himself deep down inside.

If he didn't before, he does now. He didn't have to agree to any of it. His manga could have been one of the most celebrated mangas ever. You can argue that it still is, but nobody who read the whole thing is celebrating anymore.


Edited by DrK, 03 December 2017 - 08:10 PM.


#111 rocci

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 05:28 AM

Some people ship Noctic and lighting like ss.

#112 RidiculouslyBored

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:02 PM

I can't say that I like the idea of SS. BUT...if they were together and it was executed better, there needed to be just two things done properly.

1. She would NEVER chase after Sasuke after Chapters 483 or 484.

2. Sasuke would have to reciprocate some romantic interest in her beyond mere acknowledgment and tolerance. It's Sasuke so roses and romantic serenades wouldn't be necessary but something direct and blunt, nothing subtle and implied. Not a kiss or physical intimacy but something more than bedroom eyes and a few words here or there.

#113 James S Cassidy

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:55 AM

I can't say that I like the idea of SS. BUT...if they were together and it was executed better, there needed to be just two things done properly.

1. She would NEVER chase after Sasuke after Chapters 483 or 484.

2. Sasuke would have to reciprocate some romantic interest in her beyond mere acknowledgment and tolerance. It's Sasuke so roses and romantic serenades wouldn't be necessary but something direct and blunt, nothing subtle and implied. Not a kiss or physical intimacy but something more than bedroom eyes and a few words here or there.

And chapter 693 should never exist with Sasuke saying "I see no reason why I should love her."

I mean, come on, it can't get any more blunt than that.


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#114 RidiculouslyBored

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 07:30 PM

 
1: She does, though, and given she wanted to kill him to save him out of love, it's not 100% that every human being would just stop trying. It's not OOC in the slightest, is my counter-argument.
 
2: More development, sure. The novels do a little bit more but honestly this needs to be put into the roots before the Chuunin Exams. 


1. Having Sakura go on a trip after him and having Karin (who he had struck through the chest and left to die at one point) there left a bad taste in my mind. Even worse was the fact that she ended up pregnant on said journey. It comes across as groupie behavior and something genin pre time skip Sakura would do, not part two post time skip Sakura. She chased him, and it made me smh. Lost some respect for her after that.

2. There didn't need to be romantic development between ANY possible pairings pre time skip. They all had to grow up a bit more before any romance should have even been considered.

#115 Phantom_999

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 10:12 PM

You know, I always had in my mind of a wife for Sasuke that Wasn't Sakura or Karin but someone I think would suit his tastes lol if anyone wants to know more I guess I could talk about my own fan concept of "Sasuke's perfect woman" :P


Edited by Phantom_999, 09 December 2017 - 10:12 PM.

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#116 Phantom_999

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 08:53 PM

Hmm well okay I guess I will talk about my fantasy "Sasuke's wife" lol. Well I imagine him married to a "cool beauty" that doesn't express herself often like him. She will have powerful chakra abilities and purely use chakra/ninjutsu to fight, but is physically frail and sits on a wheel-chair not because she's paralyzed in her lower body but because she can't stand up for long periods of time, but like I said she has powerful ninjutsu and Chakra. And she wears a kimono. :P  What do you think? :wink:   


Edited by Phantom_999, 19 February 2018 - 09:44 PM.

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