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Moon_Girl

Member Since 22 Dec 2012
Offline Last Active Oct 03 2023 12:54 AM

#990623 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Moon_Girl on 24 September 2023 - 03:44 AM

It's funny that Naruto is only series I know of that actually did that. 

 

The rise of the internet and social media is a huge reason why. Just another con to add to it all. Japanese studios, authors, developers, directors, etc have access to international opinion at the click of a button now. Especially with things like DeepL and Google Translate helping bridge the language barrier. It's a good and bad thing.
Sadly, a lot of bad has come from it. A lot of loud western fans are typically sex obsessed in some way and will cling to the sexy character or fanservice character and praise them to high heaven with false praise that doesn't make sense or that the character doesn't deserve all because they get their rocks off to said character the most. Usually while burying the more important/well written character(s).

Naruto is a grand example of that and how it bit the series in the butt. If I understand humanity as well as I do, this won't be the last time something like this happens. It makes me apprehensive to ship things and trust in authors/directors/writers/etc. 
I'm a straight woman on the internet who cares more about story than sex and I like well written and well developed mutual, healthy romances. How 'sexy' or 'cute' the character is has absolutely zero bearing on me. Like, it's in the negatives. 
I already have to put up with a sex obsessed anime world where games and the like are flooded with waifus. I'm not asking for more men, just actually well written and designed characters. 
On twitter I constantly see what men prefer to ship vs females and it feels like the majority of men don't care about the ship as long as the girl is sexy and gorgeous. Obviously it's not exclusive and I hate to bring in gender to it all, but that's what it seriously feels like and things I'm noticing. It's just frustrating.

Guys kind of dominate the anime sphere so I just constantly worry about the coomers only getting catered to.




#990620 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Moon_Girl on 23 September 2023 - 01:35 AM

Anime studios and editors really should just know their place and not stick their noses where they don't belong. It's an anime studio's job to adapt a manga into a series, nothing more unless the mangaka says otherwise. (They can have their own original anime series at times and that's where they can do what they want.)
Editors shouldn't try to convince the writers/mangaka to change big things like that.

So annoying.




#990475 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Moon_Girl on 20 August 2023 - 02:51 AM

Just dropping this for fun.
I'm sure people here have seen it.

sh6m8dj5hn3b1.png


Edit: Meant to drop this in general chat but hopefully this is alright.




#990048 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Moon_Girl on 06 July 2023 - 06:13 AM

The manga adaptation of Kaika Saisei is very, very good. Looks official. I'm going to adopt it as the official Naruto canon ending. 

But the absolute BS Chatte had to go through to get it hosted in the first place. I follow her on twitter and it was a nightmare. NH/SS fans are just as insane as they were before Naruto ended, if not more. I guess they can't stand the very thought that a fan might produce something way more believable and amazing that doesn't include their burning dumpster fire of ships. They dogpiled on the host sites and mass reported it even though it did not break any rules.
Nearly 10 years later and NaruSaku lives rent free in their brains, completely and utterly threatened over the fact that their relationship was so nearly perfect that to this day, it stomps NH/SS into the ground despite NH/SS being ""canon"".

They can't convince me otherwise. They're either threatened by a ship that can't hurt them or they're so obsessed and butthurt even though Studio Pierrot practically spoon feeds them everything they could ever want (even though the rest of the story (Burrito) has been reduced to a 12 year old's Naruto fanfiction) they know deep down NaruSaku was almost canon and is the objectively better ship amongst the three. 
Oooooor they're loveless NEETs with nothing better to do with their life and time. Pretty sad tbh. 
They scream, cry and throw tantrums at NaruSaku fans on twitter non-stop. I wonder if their parents are aware their 10 year olds are posting on twitter...




#989999 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Moon_Girl on 03 July 2023 - 06:51 AM

According to leaks, that girl in the trailer is an Uchiha (yep another one) named Nanashi and is from the online game Boruto plays. She is able to mind control people and some new evil organization wants to use it to brainwash the world by using her eyes to create a reflection off the moon, or something like that...

So not anything remotely interesting.

I saw some NS fans talk about her on twitter and theorizing maybe she was a NaruSaku child from a multiverse. But its only natural they won't throw NaruSaku a bone in any way, shape or form. The staff at Studio Pierrot would rather see their company go bankrupt and drown in endless debt than give up NH.  :facepalm:

They were even thinking she'd be portrayed as a villain if so. Guess they were half right.
Either way, sounds really stupid, even if it she were a NaruSaku child. Hard pass.




#989446 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Moon_Girl on 09 May 2023 - 07:53 AM

 
 
 
In the same interview Kishimoto mentioned some staff in Pierrot wanted NaruSaku but he refused. Pierrot made Sakura too much "Tsundere" and Hinata too much cute. This for sure helped the hate against Sakura at the time.
Neutral fans hated Sakura and SS fans made sure to join into NaruSaku hate club.
As soon NS died and SS was official. SS fans  entered into 100% Sakura support mode and this absolutely smashed Hinata.
 
Pierrot staff have no problem with NaruSaku. NH was just their plan "B"
Do you remember the Filler with Naruto declaring his love for Sakura? The OVA with Sasuke x Naruto. Naruto dead, Sakura crying for him and hugging after he awaken?  (Yep this was pure copy of the SS scene in land of waves arc and greatly upset SS fans)
Road to Ninja? Fillers and some fanservices in Endings or Openings?
 
NS have tons of fanservices. Part of Pierrot wanted NaruSaku.
Pierrot have nothing to do with SS/NH.  This was a solo decision between Kishimoto and his editors based in internal polls and public preferences at the time or maybe Kishimoto never lied and planned SS/NH since the beginning...
Who knows.
 
But Pierrot and their fillers has no power to influence Kishimoto and his editors.
 

 
Kishimoto never refused NS. Unless you're taking that from a post ending interview. If so, you absolutely have to take those with a huge grain of salt. Kishimoto has contradicted himself several times since the ending. He can't be trusted post-ending. Especially when the results of the ending blew up in his face so he was doing some hardcore damage control, along with SP and his editors.
He absolutely did lie about NH/SS being planned from the beginning. The man said he planned it "halfway" or "near the end", pick an interview.

Pierrot absolutely had something to do with it. I recall hearing that Kishimoto didn't write or plan "The Last'. It was presented to him by Studio Pierrot years before he was finished with Naruto. I'm sure he helped guide it and have some revisions. But you can't look me in the eye and tell me that Pierrot did not have anything to do with it. According to some Japanese sources, there were straight up Sakura hate campaigns in the studio. His editors were in on it, showing him bias videos of Hinata lovers and Sakura haters. His interviews before the ending happened absolutely reflect this. Having to remind people that Hinata is not the heroine and how he mentioned seeing a western youtuber video and describing the background. Turns out the Youtuber in question was an extreme Hinata fan and anti-Sakura.

You're really giving me the idea that you didn't really join in on this until after Naruto ended. All of us were there watching it all unfold and much of it is buried to time and NS fans/a lot of neutral fans leaving the series.
Yeah, Naruto lost a crapton of its fandom after the ending because people were so pissed off.

You can't tell me that he had things planned out when all the most intimate people in his life and in the series were shocked and upset over the pairing ending.
This includes the man's very own wife. Oh, and Naruto's Japanese voice actress. 
They were 100% rooting for NS and even Naruto's voice actress commented that NH/SS came out of absolutely nowhere and it shocked her. Kishimoto's wife had strong words and opinions for him at the ending.

No one can convince me this was planned. I'm 10000% certain NS was planned until some corporate meddling kicked in.

Even if you don't believe SP had anything to do with it, the evidence of them meddling is 100% there. If anything, they manipulated and formed the public opinion on Sakura.
She was poorly written in the anime, drawn poorly most of the time and they upped her smacking around Naruto by 50000%.

All the while, they had their best animators work on Hinata moments, put her on a pedestal, make her as cute, sexy and sweet and appealing as possible. And they absolutely were not hiding it. They based several of their bonus gag clips after episodes in later Shippuden about it.

Also just read the manga. NaruSaku was the obvious ship until the last arc, where Hinata was suddenly taking the spotlight way way more than she ever had and doing things that was usually Sakura's job. (I.E fixing his dislocated shoulder. Hinata has, canonically, zero medical experience. Except for that one SP filler episode where she magically learned how to do medical ninjutsu. Just another bias gift from her simps.)

If NH didn't happen, NS would have. SS needed NH to happen for it to happen. And the people who wanted NH to happen the most were the loudest and were on the inside, aggressively pushing for it. SS was just the throw away ship. But that's the one modern fans love the most because they always were a SS fan or because it's the closest thing they have to a Team 7 dynamic left.


#989419 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Moon_Girl on 07 May 2023 - 02:16 AM

 

If you only obligatory requirement to enjoy the sequel was just to see Sakura at Hinata's place as Naruto's housewife in Ikemoto's manga.

So you're pretty admitted you doesn't care about good writting or Sakura's character
Sakura/Kakashi are the only OG characters saved from Boruto disaster because they didn't appear in this manga.

While Sakura isn't perfect in these SS Spin Offs/Novel/Anime Episodes. It's much better than Boruto's manga.
I would prefer Sakura's death than NaruSaku in Ikemoto's universe considering Hinata's situation.

Amazing you assume that I would ever want Sakura to be a housewife. I wouldn't. And I don't think she would have in the sequel. Especially when it seems like Kishimoto set up the placements for Sakura and Hinata through Gaiden since Ikemoto didn't start on Burrito until after Gaiden iirc. 

 

No, I wouldn't wish this horrible ending on NS nor would I want Sakura to be demoted to a housewife. I, like all the other NS fans wanted her to be a power couple with Naruto like she used to and be a leader in the medical field by Naruto's side. Heck, I would have been happy with a 700-style epilogue. NS family and that's that. No sequel. I never even wanted a sequel for Naruto.
 
One of the things that hurt me the most was the assassination of Naruto and Sakura's characters. A NS ending wouldn't have done that. Even if a post NS ending ended up horrible, I would have still disowned it. I'm not the type to just suck copeium and force myself to like something if I don't like it or if it's bad. Even IF a ship I love is a part of it. I have the integrity and maturity to admit something is bad when it's bad. Even if I love it, I can admit when something is bad.
Example? I actually really like the Twilight series. Is it really bad? You bet your sweet bippy it is!! It's horrible in many ways and absolutely deserves the hate it gets. And I agree with a lot of it! But it's a guilty pleasure and I will not defend it. I don't even enjoy it in the fun-bad way.

 

If we had a NS ending instead, I could rest easy knowing that my two most beloved and favorite characters of 10+ years didn't have their core traits, personalities and development ripped out, spat on, stomped on and shat on to make a sequel happen. If the sequel sucked I could still call it out as such and avoid it. It didn't poison the ending of the original series and I could enjoy myself in the original series without it being tainted by the sequel.
But knowing that everything, all the development, foreshadowing and such was all for naught and ends up just completely disappearing as if it never happened, even their FRIENDSHIP, is way too depressing and upsetting. All those bonds built during the OG run were destroyed. The only relationship even remotely in tact is Naruto and Sasuke's. Sakura may as well have not even existed in team 7 in this crap sequel because Naruto and Sakura never interact anymore. Their amazing bond in the OG series is just gone. Without a trace. Amounted to absolutely nothing. Not even a solid friendship. It makes their OG relationship feel hollow, shallow and empty and kind of puts Sakura in an even worse light.
Was she just pretending to care about Naruto just so he could bring back her beloved Sasuke and once he did that, she was done with him? We know that's not true but that is what it looks like now. Her bond with him is no different from Rock Lee's or even Kiba.

Naruto's devotion and love to Sakura was beautiful and selfless like love should be.
All the Hinatards used to say Hinatata deserved Naruto's love and that's why NH should happen; but if we were to play that game (which is a horrible and degrading and disgusting game), Naruto deserved Sakura's love more than anyone else in the entire series deserved anything
Sakura's feelings growing towards Naruto was very natural, slow burn and beautiful in it's own right. She actually had real reasons to love him, unlike her ""love"" for Sasuke. It was real. It was believable. It was selfless. It was beautiful. Their chemistry was practically perfect. Seeing that being ripped apart and utterly destroyed and removed was heartbreaking. Their relationship was my top favorite thing about the series aside from them themselves.

Naruto never giving up was promptly spat on too. Granted, outside of shipping it was already being spat on since Kishimoto decided that he should just get free god powers instead of working for it after his near death experience in the final arc. But then in an attempt to keep that relevant, Studio Pierrot had to take a huge dump on him by going "Oh, yeah. That undeniable romantic love he had? That was 100% real? JK GET RETCON'D IT WAS JUST CUZ HE WANTED TO STEAL SASUKES GURL SO HE COULD HAVE A WIN AGAINST THE SAUCE HAHAHA HIS FURST LUV WUZ THE CREEPY STALKER GURL"
That pisses me off so much.

I could go on, but to save time, I'll just say this. A NS ending would have never needed to utterly destroy and crap upon Naruto and Sakura to happen. It -had- to happen to make NH/SS happen. They know, we know it, everyone knows it. The difference between us and the NH/SS fans is that we actually care. We actually cared that characters had to be unrealistically destroyed at their cores for ships that had zero real development happen simply because Studio Pierrot couldn't keep their Hinataboner under control. Coomerism and pornsickness at it's finest. 

No one can ever convince me Hinata had anything real going on that justified that level of destruction, retcons and crapshoots. Also yes, I am 99.999999% certain that SS only happened because of NH. The focus NH and Hinatatas got coupled with the whispers of what was going on in Studio Pierrot and the obvious Hinata vs Sakura bias that was shown in the anime itself has convinced me completely.

 

I do hope Kishimoto's wife still gives him crap about the ending to this day.

And idc if the SS novels are "better" than Burrito. If someone offers me either a pile of dog dung vs a pile of dog dung with some sprinkles on top, in the end I'm still getting a pile of dog dung.

Also I wish there wasn't a like limit. I want to give you guys all the likes.  :glare:




#989396 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Moon_Girl on 06 May 2023 - 07:13 AM

I see this thread sparked to life since I was last here.
I skipped the previous page, give or take since I don't have a lot of time to spend on the computer. But Therece, I just want to say that you're def in the wrong place if you think anyone here is going to give SS/their fandom even the smallest hint of respect or kindness. The people here have been here since before the series ended, dealt with the ship wars and the absolute horrible disrespect the fandoms had for each other. And we dropped Naruto after it ended. So most, if not all of us, really couldn't care less about whatever damage control the IP owners have done since the ending. The damage is done. They couldn't make NH/SS appealing during the original run and had to try and justify it after they were already married with kids. If you have to do that, then you've done a horrific and awful job with your pairings. Like, below bottom tier awful. Especially when you have a very well developed and healthy, natural ship that literally everyone aside from fanatic shippers expected to happen.

We all hate SS because we're Sakura fans. He rarely treated her well, even when they were together as a team. Before Sasuke decided to go rouge. Before the time skip. Their 'best moments' were when they were 12 years old. After that Sasuke tried to murder Sakura and she was even prepared to murder him as well. I get people love angst but by no means should anyone ever consider that to be 'good' or 'healthy' or the 'ideal relationship'. imho it should be treated as it is. Horrible and tragic if you're going to do it. Never portrayed as a good thing or in a positive light.
Even in the final arc, Sasuke went on about how he didn't love her, was willing to let her and Kakashi die a horrible death in lava, call her useless.

A toss away 'sorry' and forehead poke should not and does not make up for all of that. Even in the context of the story. The ship isn't even defendable post ending. The very first thing we got from Kishimoto after the ending was Gaiden which showed us how """great""" SS was. No family photos, Sasuke produced a child and then never visited said child for 12 years and zero excuse not to, apparently not even there for her birth. S and S had never kissed at that point. Sakura not even recalling if Sasuke had glasses and was in horrible debt with zero help from Sasuke. Kishimoto's original comments about Gaiden was for the fans to decide who was Salad's real biological mother. A novel that pretty much told us that Sakura followed Sasuke and bothered him non-stop until he caved and 'married her'.
The anime even had a scene where Sakura was reminiscing with Ino on a bench about how she had a date with Sasuke on that very bench and it lasted a whole  ~three minutes~. How romantic!!!  :love:  :wow: 
And as other people have mentioned, Kishimoto doesn't seem to have a single nice thing to say about the ship. It seems pretty obvious to me that he doesn't like it. He probably expected Hinatatas and Naruto to be the new stars and Hinatatas to be the new heroine while Sasuke and Sakura became side characters, but that obviously failed. People loved Team 7. They loved Sasuke and Sakura as much as Naruto. Sasuke probably the most popular of the three. They were very stupid to think that Naruto would still hold onto his crown after breaking up the team like that.
In all honesty? At the very least if NaruSaku happened, Team 7 would still be together in the spotlight. Most fans already assumed Sasuke was either going to die or not live in Konoha anymore post ending and they were right. Everyone was already used to and fine with Team 7 with Sasuke out of reach. Post ending just meant they could, ya know, still spend time together and be good ole' team 7 without all the fighting.

But this ending ultimately separated all three of them from each other with them pining for the old days. Sasuke, as suspected, doesn't want to live in Konoha so despite being with Sakura, Sakura is all alone. Naruto is separated from Sasuke and Sakura because for some reason, they felt the need to completely sever the beautiful bond Naruto and Sakura had. Probably because it would completely outshine NH and SS in comparison and make people scratch their heads. That's my theory at least.
They try to negate the fact that the NaruSaku bond has been destroyed with spin off things like that weird Naruto mobile game with CGs. I remember there was a Christmas one where Naruto is decorating a tree and smiling at Sakura while she is sitting at a table with an ornament. And Hinatatas is shoehorned into the background with food because they can't get enough of her and they love shoehorning her in Naruto and Sakura's relationship despite never being there. 
There was in the Burrito anime, a photo in Naruto's house of him, Sakura and Hinata as 12 year old's. Like ???????????? They keep shoehorning this cardboard side character into places she was never a part of in the first place. It's gross and disgusting.

I'm among the group who also thinks Sakura's confession was not 'fake'. Half of it was fake, but not completely. Her lie was getting over Sasuke. But she did love Naruto. But most of the fandom either lacks the reading comprehension to grab that or they just refuse to accept it. Heaven forbid they acknowledge NaruSaku actually was very close to happening.


Also SS being popular does not mean its good. Twilight is extremely popular, even more so than SS, but do you think its good? Probably not. 

Sakura became a childish fangirl who only loved Sasuke because he was hot and sexy and cool. That panel in the Sasuke manga of Sakura being like "omg sasuke is sooooooooooooooooo hawwwwwttt  :drool:  :drool: " only kind of furthers the point. I've seen people on twitter defend the panel by saying it's normal for a wife to lust after her husband. Yeah, that's true. But the problem is, is that's all Sakura ever loved about him. We are never shown why she loves Sasuke. 
Even Sasuke himself says she has zero reason to love him and Kakashi being all like "U DUN NEED NO REAZON TO LUV SUMONE" sounds like that was going to be Kishimoto's defense for SS at best. Yes, you actually do need a reason to TRULY love someone romantically. Otherwise there's no such thing as 'incompatibility'. Everyone can just fall in love with anyone anywhere despite personality, beliefs, actions and how they treat you.  :fu:  You don't need a reason to love and care for someone as a human being despite differences. But romantically? Yeeeeeeeeah. You kinda dooooooo. ""Loving"" someone because they're ""hot"" is not really love. It's lust. Same with loving the idea of someone. Which Sakura seems to fall under both in some way. We know she doesn't love him for his 'reliability' or 'protectiveness' or 'kindness' or 'compassion' or 'warmth' or 'honesty' or 'support' or 'presence'. 

Just a tween's reason to claim they're in love: Hot, sexy, cool. 

Sakura also loses at least 90% of her backbone when Sasuke is around. She turns into a puddle and doormat for Sasuke to walk all over.

We love the Sakura who stands up for herself and others, the Sakura who is strong, the Sakura who is confident, the Sakura who is mature, the Sakura who is honest, the Sakura who is smart and coolheaded when the need rose for it, the Sakura who had character development and being around Sasuke just wiped half of it away.
She pretty much returned to her 12 year old self with the exception of being mean/not understanding Naruto. We and most of the fandom, hated that Sakura. But SS fans are willing to sweep all of that under the rug because their self insert ship came true.
It's sad. Horribly sad. Sakura was one of the most beautifully developed characters I had seen and it was all completely destroyed.

Let me make it clear; I don't care about the SS fandom. I don't care how 'good' Sasuke is to Sakura now. It was Kishimoto's job to sell the pairing to me BEFORE the series ended. And he failed. I even gave Gaiden a chance. If anything, he made me hate the ship and what it did to Sakura.
How she acts around Naruto vs how she acts around Sasuke is as clear as night and day. It's not even fitting for an 'enemies to lover' trope. That trope at least has mutual development, respect and understanding because it has to in order to work.

Rant over.

--

I know a lot of people say that they're glad NS didn't happen because of how horrible Burrito is. But I can't help but disagree. I really do believe a NaruSaku dynamic would be way different than what we currently have. Hinatata is kind of a useless doormat, so it's easy for Naruto and her crotch goblins to wipe their feet all over her. I know Studio Pierrot tried to fix the awful dynamic by forcing Hinatata to suddenly act Kushina/Sakura-like but it obviously did not work. Honestly, no one is buying it. Very OOC for her.

Though, with how horrible the writing has been, it is a fair reason to suspect that even Naruto and Sakura would still be victims of OOC. But to that I say, I could at least still enjoy the OG Naruto series even if a NaruSaku ending fueled sequel turned out horribad. It's extremely easy to ignore.
Unfortunately, the current ending with two of the worst ships in existence has permanently ruined the series knowing that characters were gruesomely assassinated for the sake of the ships. So I can't really enjoy the OG series anymore. I still love it before it turned into a burning pile of toxic waste. That's why it still hurts so much, after all.
 




#989265 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Moon_Girl on 22 April 2023 - 06:17 AM

The fact that toxic and abusive relationships get romanticized at all is extremely cringe and disgusting. I don't really have much respect for people who ship pairings like those. 

But it's sad that Sasuke and Sakura ended up outshining the main character, Naruto, in the end. Honestly, if Naruto and Sakura got together that wouldn't have happened and all three would have been equally popular.  :ermm: 
People still love Naruto, sure. But he kind of has taken a side seat to his OG teammates. It doesn't help that a lot of people, even those who liked the ending, thinks Burrito is trash. The series got a breath of fresh air for a spin-off manga about Sasuke and it includes Sakura and SS moments. People on twitter wouldn't shut up about the spin off for a while.
Except despite being written by a woman who is obvious a SS fan, she still wrote Sakura poorly. She had her trip over a rock and have Sasuke catch her, she had Sakura cry about how pathetic and useless she is.

Like c'mon.  :down: We love bad@$$ Sakura. Not ditzy love interest Sakura. It's so sad that people like a self-depreciating Sakura over an upbeat and confident Sakura. She had her moments in shippuden but when she was with Naruto, she was motivated and strong and often helping Naruto up when he was down too. They supported each other and had beautiful chemistry. They were equals that uplifted each other with and without words. Made each other stronger. The ultimate power couple. It's really, really tragic that people prefer what was an almost perfect relationship to a toxic one that derailed character development and straight up twisted and changed characters at their core.

We're close to 10 years since the ending and I'm still as angry about it as I was when it was first revealed. Kishimoto will never have my support again and I'll never stop telling people why the ending is so awful. I've already shown people why the ending is so messed up and they find it hard to enjoy Naruto anymore because of it. All that background meddling from Studio Pierrot and Kishimoto's new editors and Kishimoto's lack of backbone should cost them dearly. I will be that petty person.
They cost me 10+ years of time, peace of mind and money, after all. I hate using the word 'triggered' with a passion but seeing Hinatata's, NH, Burrito and SS really triggers me because of how hard the ending hit me. It's been very hard to get over. I don't know why. But it has.




#989260 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Moon_Girl on 21 April 2023 - 01:57 AM

Please don't spam this forum with cancer pictures. Thanks.

I already said it, yeah SS was very popular in Japan. I'm very well aware of that fact. Mostly by girls who self insert as Sakura because they like Sasuke. So naturally Sakura's popularity boomed with it. It doesn't change the fact that SS is a horrible and abusive ship that they had to retcon Sasuke into suddenly caring about Sakura romantically after stating over and over how much he didn't like her in that way. And then a post Naruto ending novel basically stating that Sasuke only got with her because Sakura wouldn't stop nagging him.


Hinata, pre-ending, no one really cared about except her fanatical fandom in the West. Yeah people found her cute but they didn't care about her much. It was post-the last that she suddenly became one of the most hated characters. As I mentioned, 2ch, basically the Japanese mother of 4chan, had 2-3 active anti-hintata threads going on at once. Naruto fans grew to hate her.
I personally went from indifference to hatred because of the western fandom. 
And considering the western fandom is one of the reasons why she was suddenly shoved into the spotlight, I guess my hatred is valid.

In any case, Naruto, post ending, lost like 80% of its fandom. Only people left are people who, for some reason, like Burrito, people who still like Naruto pre ending and shippers. Most people consider Burrito to be pretty horrible. Even people who liked the Naruto ending.
 




#989258 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Moon_Girl on 20 April 2023 - 08:47 AM

If I recall correctly, didn't they falsely advertise "The Last" as a NS movie but then secretly changed Sakura to Hinata? I remember people talking about a huge outcry in Japan at the time over something along those lines. People went to the theaters expecting to see Naruto and Sakura, then saw it was Naruto and Hinata. A lot of people just stood up and left the movie, but they weren't allowed refunds. 

 

If I'm remembering this correctly, that's some shady business from SP and would answer why "The Last" sold better than "RtN." But it's possible I'm just misremembering since its been basically a decade. 

It was more a team seven movie. But they did hint NaruSaku. I remember someone (idk if it was a staff member or someone who was talking about it in a Japanese show) said "Sakura has become very beautiful. Surely Naruto..." Something along those lines.
idr
But yes, Sasuke and Kakashi were shown in the earliest trailers before we knew anything about it and the pre-orders came with Naruto and Kakashi themed bonuses. As trailers continued to come out and it became clear it was Hinata focused, people wanted refunds and were denied.
 

 

 

The Last premiered in december

The entire Japan already knew the manga ending and the Final Pairings.

But the trailers just showed Sasuke/Kakashi as if they were main character. Kishimoto himself said the movie was a Chapter 699.5 and was important to the manga. So everybody were expecting Sasuke, Sakura, SS, Kakashi and Team 7  in this movie. Not just a Hinata love story.

Road to Ninja have a similar problem at the time with the massive Sasuke, SS/NH advertisement from Traillers and the own Kishimoto who drawn some covers. Of course the entire Sasuke/SS/NH fandom back in the day destroyed RtN.

 

Boruto Movie didn't have this problem because Sasuke at the first time was the Main Character of the movie, no false pairing/character advertisement and the traillers were honest.

A lot of people were also hoping that the Last would be different. People were hoping ch 700 would be an infinite tsukiyomi thing and the Last would clear it all up and give the true ending. That's how bad people were taken aback by the ending.
But a lot of people ended up going to see the Last because once the trailers revealed it would be a Hinata centric movie, people tried to get refunds but were denied. So some went to see anyways. Some didn't think ch 700 was too bad until they saw the movie.
All I know is that a lot of people bailed the theater before the end and there was a ton of Hinata hatred in Japan. 2ch had like 2 or 3 Anti-Hinata threads going on at once. You had Japanese fans calling Naruto the 'ultimate scumbag' and such.

 

Studio Pierrot's refusal for refunds (most people bought tickets when the early trailers seemed team 7 focused and even the preorder bonuses were Naruto and Kakashi focused) is where their bloated sales come from. I remember that on Yahoo movies.jp, horrible reviews were flooding in to the Last's review page. It would have gotten 2 stars (out of five) or below if Studio Pierrot hadn't started going on full damage control and buying false reviews to try and save the ratings.

RtN had a much better and more natural rating and was well received. But the NH/SS centric trailers did hurt it. Studio Pierrot just couldn't stomach the fact that the Japanese fanbase couldn't have cared less about Hinata. SS was very popular with the girls (for some unholy reason I will never understand why. All I can think of is self inserting themselves with Sakura so they can enjoy UwU hawt emo boi) but that alone couldn't save it. Out of the big three, NH was at the absolute bottom.

--

Not many people have respect for NH or Hinata these days except for a very loud extreme fandom. Probably the same as the old days. Sasuke and Sakura seem to the the new stars in the fandom. Nobody really cares for Burrito his mop sister and Hinatatas.

The Naruto 99 polls has Sakura at #3 and her fight with Sasori winning best fight. Hinatata was #10 for the character list.

I bet the series would be doing much better if the Studio Pierrot's staff could have controlled their horniness over the wet incel dream that is Hinatata.
Big boobed, has no personality or interests outside of you, shy and meek, won't talk back, pretty, puts you over literally everything else, including your own children, will be a good little housewife, quiet and obedient. That is Hinata.
And studio pierrot trying to make her like Sakura/Kushina did not help her popularity.

The fandom has been pretty much giving the proverbial finger to Kishimoto and Hinata and her stans. Sakura is still the most popular and beloved between the two. Her merch sells out long before Hinata's I saw a JP user on Twitter mention. But despite the fans being loud and clear about who they love the most, there's still Hinata bias and she gets shoved everywhere.
Apparently one cafe in Japan celebrates Hinata's birthday but not Sakura's. 

It's so weird and messed up.




#987876 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by Moon_Girl on 16 October 2022 - 04:44 PM

Just wanted to comment on the Fire Emblem Three Houses talk; I don't really see how Silver Snow is the canon route. Really, I can't see any route as canon. They're all up to the player. Don't get me wrong though, I very much dislike Edelgard. I think on top of the reasons said why she's popular in the west, I'd add that another reason people love her is because she's bisexual. The sheer amount of Female Byleth and Edelgard ship art I've seen is stunning. Obviously not the -only- reason but hating religion, wanting to take out anyone else if they disagree because she sees herself as more morally superior and being an attractive young woman being strong bases as is. Also 'girl boss' energy that people love. The cherry on top is that she seems to be super attached and a little obsessed with Byleth.
I'm pretty immune to all of those reasons, so seeing how horrible she is as a person, her beliefs and actions is really easy for me. Someone mentioned she's exactly the same as a previous Fire Emblem villain and no one likes or cares about him. Why? Because he's not a waifu.  :argh: IDR the guy's name. Edelgard is racist, authoritarian, a tyrant, cruel, ruthless, ignorant and closed minded. Not to mention completely mislead. And a bit hypocritical depending on how you view her ending.
And we're allllll very familiar that sometimes, just being a waifu is plenty reason to blindly follow and support anything and everything a character is and does. (*cough*Hinata*coughcough*) So of course they overlook her blinding and glaring flaws.

It seemed pretty obvious that Edelgard was the villain of the game. At least to me. I bought Three Hopes but I dunno. Maybe it's the gameplay style but I haven't really gotten into it.

Though hearing that Claude turned into a villain in Three Hopes really ticks me off. I know he's the least popular of the three, but I love him a lot. I felt like his path in Three Houses was the most complete and satisfying. The only complaint I have is that Demetri died anyways. He is my favorite of the three and as much as I adore his route and character development, I do feel like his route had some painful loose ends that Claude's route tied neatly. You not only stop Edelgard, but you also learn about and take care of 'Those who slither in the dark'. Sadly, Demetri's route completely missed the latter.

I didn't hear about Edelgard's information control campaign though. Figures. Not sure why they removed it. It's not like it'll make her simps stop loving her and worshipping her.  :laughcry: She's a hawt waifu whom you can make smexy yuris with. She can do no wrong.

But it figures the West completely missed the point. And they did. If they want Westerners to follow the point, don't make the bad guy into a waifu in which you can take her side. I really can't blame the Japanese for being pissed about it. I'm on their side with this. Westerners have this horrible habit of thinking with their crotches or just plain ignoring the flaws. (Though it doesn't help that the West and Japan are at odds with each other socially. Polar opposites.)
Reminds me of Guilty Gear. Japanese fans were absolutely furious about Bridget. His whole story is that he was raised as a girl because twin boys being born in his village is considered a horrible omen or something like that. So to save him, his parents raised him as a girl and he wants to reclaim his manhood.
I guess the not true or neutral ending has Bridget caving into pressure (By two adults) and deciding to live as a girl. But all the Western fans take it as that means he's trans. The wikis all say he's 'female' now. Even though his best/true ending has him denying the pressure and saying he'll live as he wants. (He doesn't specify whether that means as a girl or boy, but you'd assume that he's either saying it doesn't matter to him anymore or he's going with his original quest to reclaim his masculinity.)
Because of this, the Japanese fandom (who love their feminine boys or 'traps') completely lost it over the idea that the game developers were trying to pander to twitter and take away their long beloved character.

Long story short, it seems like Westerners ruin everything.  :fu: And as a westerner myself, I really can't disagree with that. I've been on Japan's side of how they view things. Kinda hate how Western fandoms twist things. Ruined Naruto, ruined Guilty Gear, ruined Fire Emblem Three Houses/Hopes.

This is why we can't have nice things.




#986690 Why do some people HATE Sakura for her confession to Naurto?

Posted by Moon_Girl on 15 March 2022 - 01:52 PM

Actually when she married Sasuke they didn't make a peep about her anymore, and in fact she was voted as the most popular character in Boruto. Sure, take it with a grain of salt but this completely contrasts with how she was treated by the fandom before the end of Naruto. 

Something important to keep in mind; Japan adores Sakura. It was the Western fandom that had all the haters. Hinata wasn't nearly as popular as Sakura is in Japan. 
You also didn't hear much of a peep from the haters when SS happened because she was no longer a threat to their precious Hinatatas.

Granted, if you dare look into the shipping fandom, NH and SS are at each other's throats. It's still Sakura vs Hinata with them. They were only friends until Kishi caved and gave them their steaming piles of crap that is their ships.




#986406 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Moon_Girl on 14 February 2022 - 11:24 AM

Honestly, I do think Kishimoto fell 'out of love' with his main character and was more inspired by writing for his morally grey anti-hero.

 

It totally happens. Authors botch their own stories all the time. Especially in a series. They lose the thread of where they were going, get bored, then start writing towards a different ending than the one they started out with. 

 

You can tell it happened in Naruto because there were no more true story arcs after a point in time. Just conflict and resolution.

 

And the final bit of damning evidence? That the ending of the whole Naruto manga was from Sasuke's point of view. The one character who spent the entire time trying to get away from Naruto. He has nothing to contribute, because he had nothing to do with their stories. At all. 

 

But in Kishimoto's head, Sasuke is the hero. So why hear from Naruto about what happened in his life?

 

If Kishi wanted a neutral narrator, Kakashi would have been the best choice.

 

Imagine if the Harry Potter series turned into Draco's power ups and backstories about the whole Malfoy family, then Voldemort turns out to be just another ancient Malfoy....and then finally after the Battle of Hogwarts and the series has come to a close, the epilogue was told from Draco's point of view? For no other reason than the author just wanted a little more Draco Malfoy before it ended?

 

That's what happened in Naruto. And when you apply the same scenario to any other story or movie, it becomes crystal clear that the creator fell out of love with his hero and sold out his original story. 

Honestly, I feel like Kishimoto's original editor was the real MVP keeping the story together. I could be remembering this wrong, but didn't his editor (apparently the one he had since the beginning of the series and helped him out a ton) retire around the Pain Arc and that's also when the story started falling flat? If that's all true, I feel like that may have played a much bigger role than we thought. Especially since his new editors were huge Hinata fans and pushed for her.




#985809 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by Moon_Girl on 06 December 2021 - 03:40 AM

Lol, too bad that the jokes on them a Boruto isnt doing that well at all, which makes me laugh so hard.

Hell I think Pokemon gets more money than Boruto which makes me laugh if its true.

Kind of an unfair comparison. Pokemon is one of the most successful franchises in the entire world. Even if the anime doesn't do well, the games, merchandise, ect all make up for it. You can't even see Burrito in comparison to how massively successful Pokemon is. Even when Pokemon messes up.