118 replies to this topic

[naruto-z]

If I remember correctly, several chapters ago the combined shinobi forces mentioned using Hiraishin, and Tsunade(or Shikako?) said that it was best saved for Naruto to use. It sounded like they had the scroll/equipment for using it, but decided they were going to save it for Naruto.

If only I could remember where exactly that scene was and who was in it! I'm pretty sure it happened at the main shinobi HQ while the Kage were still present, and they were talking about transporting people. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to go through all the previous chapters tonight to find it.

EDIT: Thank you Naruto wikis! I wasn't remembering things correctly, it's just this page:

http://www.mangaread...et/naruto/562/9

Tsunade: "We'll save the Flying Thunder God technique for him" (unclear as to whether she's referring to fighting Madara or giving it to Naruto)

Tsunade's guards know the technique, but it requires all three of them to activate it so it's not as refined as the Fourth's.

Now don't get me so excited all of a sudden. The trouble with this theory is that it would "appear" that Naruto would have to wait until after the war arc to find the time to learn something like this. There's no way he's going to learn it fast. It's going to be another one of the "takes time" jutsus.

[Phantom_999]

So last week it was all about getting a scratch on his mask and this week discovering how he got scratched, hope all of next week isn't spent explaining how he got scratched.

Kakashi --Click here to view--

I think Kakashi dying and being reborn has something to do with how he is able to use the Kamui so many times, infact considering how quickly Sasuke started going blind from using the MS it's a surprised Kakashi isn't losing his eyesight as well.

Anyway as I was saying, I believe the reason Kakashi can use the MS and Jutsu's in general more now is he met his dad when died, and the burden of guilt he felt was lifted and he was able to fight more effectively, it's the same case with Naruto, he was a powerhouse before, but ever since he met his mother and realised their love for him and the reason for Karuma being sealed in him, he became stronger, as shown by the multiple toadsage mode clones he managed to create afterward in his mind compared to before...his clones were also more powerful.

Well, of course there is the fact that Kakashi is only going to lose one eye if the blindness takes hold, so it's not such a huge loss for him and also his sharingan never deactivates so it's debatable whether or not he's actually going blind since 1. he does not take out that eye often and 2. whether or not blindness affects the Sharingan's powers since he can't "turn it off". So there's no way to be sure that he's not suffering repercussions from it but in general, besides the fact that it tires him to the point of collapsing I'd say the drawbacks of MS would not affect him overall as much as it does the Uchiha.

Edited by Phantom_999, 01 August 2012 - 07:21 PM.

[Verilance]

Will Kakashi go blind though?? I always assumed he would have EMS because the eye is Obito's not his own, the same way Sasuke has EMS now using Itachi's eyes

course I am open to be proven wrong...

[Phantom_999]

Um, one thing you missed though. Kakashi is not an Uchiha so he wouldn't have an EMS. EMS only takes place if an Uchiha takes the Sharingan from a direct blood relative, like a sibling so essentially Kakashi would never have it, and again the blindness will applies to his sharingan eye so he still has his right still intact.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I thought the whole blindness issue arose when you use your own eyes; if you use someone else's eyes, then you regain vision (and it seems like it's a permanent solution and not a temporary solution; why kill for eyes when it only extends your eye vision for a couple of months?)

Kakashi was great in this chapter.

I simply give up trying to understand the sharing i accepted the idea that the sharingan is like a cheater console on the shinobi world.
a simple eye that greatly increases all the three ( ninjutsu , genjutsu and taijutsu(seeing moves of opponents), gives u the possibility to counter everything

it gives u an amor assault unit that can face a bijuu alone (suzano), a flame that can extinguish everything ( amateratsu), genjutsu that can alter even the reality itself ( izanagi)port up thought dimensions (kamui), can awake the rinnengan ( sharing 2.0) i really dont know how the shodaime could defeat him because the edo tensei's version of shodaime could not beat the sandaime, and the edo tensei madara is kicking everyone ass.

Edited by dovahkiin, 01 August 2012 - 10:31 PM.

[redragon88]

Guys, I think I understand why Tobi got that scratch in his mask even though there was no indication that Kakashi redirected the kunai with kamui like he did with the rasengan.

Both Kakashi and Tobi are using kamui, but I think the main difference is that Tobi uses a more advance version of it that lets him teleport his own body while Kakashi can only send objects. It would seem, in my opinion, that kamui sends things into the same black dimension regardless of who uses the technique. Therefore, whatever Kakashi and Tobi send goes to the same place.

In the last chapter when Kakashi transferred the kunai into the other dimension almost immediately Tobi sent part of his mask to that same place. In that other dimension the kunai kept moving forward until it hit the part of Tobi's mask that he sent there as well. That's how it got scratched.

This is also why Kakashi can't send the Mazou with kamui. Just as Kakashi uses kamui to send it inside Tobi uses kamui in return to send it right back outside, all before its head gets torn.

[naruto-z]

Guys, I think I understand why Tobi got that scratch in his mask even though there was no indication that Kakashi redirected the kunai with kamui like he did with the rasengan.

Both Kakashi and Tobi are using kamui, but I think the main difference is that Tobi uses a more advance version of it that lets him teleport his own body while Kakashi can only send objects. It would seem, in my opinion, that kamui sends things into the same black dimension regardless of who uses the technique. Therefore, whatever Kakashi and Tobi send goes to the same place.

In the last chapter when Kakashi transferred the kunai into the other dimension almost immediately Tobi sent part of his mask to that same place. In that other dimension the kunai kept moving forward until it hit the part of Tobi's mask that he sent there as well. That's how it got scratched.

This is also why Kakashi can't send the Mazou with kamui. Just as Kakashi uses kamui to send it inside Tobi uses kamui in return to send it right back outside, all before its head gets torn.

Yup, that's basically how I interpreted it as well. Cool that you added in the Mazou! I just thought that Tobi's technique might have just simply canceled Kakashi's like how Tsukuyomi cancels Amaterasu.

[Paptala]

Am I the only one getting the feeling that Tobi is going be Kakashi's fight? And then Sasuke for Naruto, and Madara for Team 7 (or perhaps just Naruto alone).

Edited by Paptala, 02 August 2012 - 02:23 AM.

[ramenanmitsu]

Am I the only one getting the feeling that Tobi is going be Kakashi's fight? And then Sasuke for Naruto, and Madara for Team 7 (or perhaps just Naruto alone).

Tobi vs. Kakashi!? That would be awesome! We do know for sure now that Naruto wasn't able to beat Tobi by himself, and I desperately want to see Kakashi in the spotlight like Kishi has promised.

The downside to this is that if Kakashi vs. Tobi comes real, the dreadful theory of Obito=Tobi comes real....god knows how much I loathe that theory

[chouzu_tao]

Am I the only one getting the feeling that Tobi is going be Kakashi's fight? And then Sasuke for Naruto, and Madara for Team 7 (or perhaps just Naruto alone).

I guess we'll have to wait and see what the flashbacks say about the Madaras' histories with one another, but currently I don't think Edo Tensei Madara is going to be the big bad as he currently doesn't play an intricate role in the big scheme of things for Naruto's plot.

[MangaReader]

The downside to this is that if Kakashi vs. Tobi comes real, the dreadful theory of Obito=Tobi comes real....god knows how much I loathe that theory

As dumb as the theory seemed at first...there are signs that could point to it going in that direction. Of coarse this could all be a big old coincidence

[RedDelicious]

And then Sasuke for Naruto, and Madara for Team 7 (or perhaps just Naruto alone).

Or how about Madara for Naruto's classmates (and without Naruto)?
That would let us see more of these wonderful characters, who have been lost in the war so far (except for Team 10, maybe).

The Kages are far more powerful, but they are fighting as five individuals.
It would be fun to see the youngsters fight as a team, with their individual skills being coordinated by Shikamaru.
(And it would enrage Madara to be subdued by a bunch of teenagers.)

[Codus N]

If I remember correctly, several chapters ago the combined shinobi forces mentioned using Hiraishin, and Tsunade(or Shikako?) said that it was best saved for Naruto to use. It sounded like they had the scroll/equipment for using it, but decided they were going to save it for Naruto.

If only I could remember where exactly that scene was and who was in it! I'm pretty sure it happened at the main shinobi HQ while the Kage were still present, and they were talking about transporting people. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to go through all the previous chapters tonight to find it.

EDIT: Thank you Naruto wikis! I wasn't remembering things correctly, it's just this page:

http://www.mangaread...et/naruto/562/9

Tsunade: "We'll save the Flying Thunder God technique for him" (unclear as to whether she's referring to fighting Madara or giving it to Naruto)

Tsunade's guards know the technique, but it requires all three of them to activate it so it's not as refined as the Fourth's.

Actually, that was supposed to be for Mei. Tsunade (in the raw) says aitsu which is a gender-neutral way of referring to to another person. The Japanese doesn't have a word that specifically states one's gender when it's referring to a third person. But yeah, I sure hope as hell "That Jutsu" is indeed Hiraishin.

Am I the only one getting the feeling that Tobi is going be Kakashi's fight? And then Sasuke for Naruto, and Madara for Team 7 (or perhaps just Naruto alone).

Or how about Madara for Naruto's classmates (and without Naruto)?
That would let us see more of these wonderful characters, who have been lost in the war so far (except for Team 10, maybe).

The Kages are far more powerful, but they are fighting as five individuals.
It would be fun to see the youngsters fight as a team, with their individual skills being coordinated by Shikamaru.
(And it would enrage Madara to be subdued by a bunch of teenagers.)

Funny, I was about to say that Sakura would be the one to go against him considering how it would put a huge dent on his sexist pride. but yeah, the K-11 going up against him and him being defeated by a bunch of teenagers would definitely hurt his pride just as much and much more realistic. Not only that, this will also cement the K-11's name in history. He could probably name them with something along the lines of the Sannin.

Special mention will go to Team 10, though. Chouji will go toe-to-toe with Perfect Susanoo with full butterfly wings and take it down. Shikamaru's perfect coordination of the K-11's attacks and the strategy that comes with it will impress Madara a lot. Ino... well dunno. But she will play a big role too, I guess. This will lead him to calling this generation's Ino-Shika-Cho the strongest ever. Shikamaru will gain a nickname along with Chouji from Madara.

Edited by Codus N, 02 August 2012 - 07:49 AM.

[Nate River]

I simply give up trying to understand the sharing i accepted the idea that the sharingan is like a cheater console on the shinobi world.
a simple eye that greatly increases all the three ( ninjutsu , genjutsu and taijutsu(seeing moves of opponents), gives u the possibility to counter everything

it gives u an amor assault unit that can face a bijuu alone (suzano), a flame that can extinguish everything ( amateratsu), genjutsu that can alter even the reality itself ( izanagi)port up thought dimensions (kamui), can awake the rinnengan ( sharing 2.0) i really dont know how the shodaime could defeat him because the edo tensei's version of shodaime could not beat the sandaime, and the edo tensei madara is kicking everyone ass.

The simple answer is that it's a massive internal contradiction created by the fact that he lost control over the power levels of his main characters as the series progressed. The need for every ninja be stronger than the last is creating this problem.

Yeah...Orochimaru got bargain basement version. Remember he could not outright defeat a long past his prime third while having the help of the Second with him. I've said it before, if I were Orochimaru, I'd be wondering....what the hell, man?!

Lack of details about sharingan has allowed limitless expansion without too many outright contradictions (though there have been some), but yeah, opens him up to massive ass-pull accusations (well deserved) and complete confusion about the parameters we actually do have.

[K9ofChaos]

Guys, I think I understand why Tobi got that scratch in his mask even though there was no indication that Kakashi redirected the kunai with kamui like he did with the rasengan.

Both Kakashi and Tobi are using kamui, but I think the main difference is that Tobi uses a more advance version of it that lets him teleport his own body while Kakashi can only send objects. It would seem, in my opinion, that kamui sends things into the same black dimension regardless of who uses the technique. Therefore, whatever Kakashi and Tobi send goes to the same place.

In the last chapter when Kakashi transferred the kunai into the other dimension almost immediately Tobi sent part of his mask to that same place. In that other dimension the kunai kept moving forward until it hit the part of Tobi's mask that he sent there as well. That's how it got scratched.

This is also why Kakashi can't send the Mazou with kamui. Just as Kakashi uses kamui to send it inside Tobi uses kamui in return to send it right back outside, all before its head gets torn.

I pretty much agree with this theory because I too have believed this to be the case for the longest time.

[MangaReader]

I pretty much agree with this theory because I too have believed this to be the case for the longest time.

Makes sense because Tobi himself said that Kamui would not work on him way back when Naruto and the group went looking for Sasuke the second time

Edited by MangaReader, 02 August 2012 - 05:10 PM.

[chouzu_tao]

I simply give up trying to understand the sharing i accepted the idea that the sharingan is like a cheater console on the shinobi world.
a simple eye that greatly increases all the three ( ninjutsu , genjutsu and taijutsu(seeing moves of opponents), gives u the possibility to counter everything

it gives u an amor assault unit that can face a bijuu alone (suzano), a flame that can extinguish everything ( amateratsu), genjutsu that can alter even the reality itself ( izanagi)port up thought dimensions (kamui), can awake the rinnengan ( sharing 2.0) i really dont know how the shodaime could defeat him because the edo tensei's version of shodaime could not beat the sandaime, and the edo tensei madara is kicking everyone ass.

As Nate states the material does seem to fall pray to the problem of trying to have one villain top the last and going to far with each step, but I'll also add it's for keeping Sasuke above Naruto so he continues to be a real threat. As far as the edo tensi Madara being uber powered, remember he is supposedly a juiced up version thanks to Kabuto. Unfortunately we don't know how much he was tweaked with. Also, we forget that the first's wife, who was an Uzumaki, was also present at the battle at the valley of the end. I think the fact that he's an edo tensei and is infused with the shodaime negates the one weakness the Sharingan is supposed to have but inconsistently does, in that it's supposed to be draining on the user. But I agree with you, it's gotten a bit out of control. At this point I don't know if Naruto could even touch Sasuke. It seems his sage-mode is still used primarily for taijutsu and close-quarters, which is a big no-no for a fight with the Sharingan.

Yeah...Orochimaru got bargain basement version. Remember he could not outright defeat a long past his prime third while having the help of the Second with him. I've said it before, if I were Orochimaru, I'd be wondering....what the hell, man?!

Lack of details about sharingan has allowed limitless expansion without too many outright contradictions (though there have been some), but yeah, opens him up to massive ass-pull accusations (well deserved) and complete confusion about the parameters we actually do have.

I don't remember 100% of that battle but what I seem to remember is that Orochimaru didn't play a very active role in that fight until the very end so I'm not sure it was an accurate depiction of what a 1-on-1 match between him and the 3rd would be. He had the same foil many villains have: why do the dirty work when someone else can do it for you. I don't think the concern should be placed on Oro vs the Third but how the Third was able to stay afloat in a battle between two kages, who were younger at their passing and probably still closer to their prime.

I do concur that there seems to be a patch for every chip in the sharingan's armor, making a utilizer of the sharingan god-like. It was somewhat okay at first when it seemed like the mangekyou skills were special to each individual, but now it seems like anyone can learn any of the abilities once they achieve it. At this point it doesn't seem like Kishi intends to have Naruto win in a match against Sasuke, which while I understand simply beating Sasuke won't illustrate to him the error of his ways, Sasuke has been asking to get is butt handed to him for quite some time now.

[Nate River]

I don't remember 100% of that battle but what I seem to remember is that Orochimaru didn't play a very active role in that fight until the very end so I'm not sure it was an accurate depiction of what a 1-on-1 match between him and the 3rd would be. He had the same foil many villains have: why do the dirty work when someone else can do it for you. I don't think the concern should be placed on Oro vs the Third but how the Third was able to stay afloat in a battle between two kages, who were younger at their passing and probably still closer to their prime.

I do concur that there seems to be a patch for every chip in the sharingan's armor, making a utilizer of the sharingan god-like. It was somewhat okay at first when it seemed like the mangekyou skills were special to each individual, but now it seems like anyone can learn any of the abilities once they achieve it. At this point it doesn't seem like Kishi intends to have Naruto win in a match against Sasuke, which while I understand simply beating Sasuke won't illustrate to him the error of his ways, Sasuke has been asking to get is butt handed to him for quite some time now.

Pronoun screw up on my part. The "HE" in my quote refers to the First Hokage and no Orochimaru.

[Smiter]

Actually, that was supposed to be for Mei. Tsunade (in the raw) says aitsu which is a gender-neutral way of referring to to another person. The Japanese doesn't have a word that specifically states one's gender when it's referring to a third person. But yeah, I sure hope as hell "That Jutsu" is indeed Hiraishin.

Thanks for clearing that up, it makes complete sense now. It was just odd how the scanlator didn't just use "him", but also bolded it.

We can still hope that Naruto gets to use Hiraishin at some point in the manga!

[chouzu_tao]

Pronoun screw up on my part. The "HE" in my quote refers to the First Hokage and no Orochimaru.

Ah. Got you. Yes. Yes, I agree with you whole-heartedly.