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#26561 tricksie

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 09:49 PM

Oh yeah, it's a big deal in Japan for the mother to keep the umbilical cord....

 

So, remind me again why Karin has it?



#26562 rocci

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 10:15 PM

Oh yeah, it's a big deal in Japan for the mother to keep the umbilical cord....
 
So, remind me again why Karin has it?


Karin's hair Herring.

#26563 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 02:33 AM

Sorry I'm getting back to this so much later....

 

So, I think we shouldn't separate Kishimoto from the environment he created the manga in, that's what I mean by traditionalism. He's in Japan where it's very much pushed for women to stay home - those kinds of traditional values. This story reinforces that idea. Women are okay to go to school, even have some type of career. But when you have a child, you are expected to go. And there have been quite a few articles in the past about women who want to return to work after a child as being called a 'devil wife.' 

 

So yeah...and you want to see these traditional Japanese values put into effect in Naruto? Sakura and Hinata...accomplished shinobi who have basically retired at age 20 or so to have a baby. They will never return to being shinobi again. The other married women are not even taken into consideration. And the alternative is Tsunade, who has no children, has broken romances and is a drinker.

 

So if you are a girl/teen/young woman reading this manga, there is not a single female character who comes out as accomplishing their individual goals as it relates to themselves, and not to a man or his goals. And some of them are even punished in their future lives, like Sakura.

 

I think Kishimoto may have been younger and more idealistic when he started this manga 20+ years ago. But he has mellowed into a middle aged man who clearly had no problem subtracting from these roles to make these women more softer, friendlier and family oriented and in keeping with a GIANT Japanese concern right now which is the graying of Japan and the declining birthrate. It's real and serious. I can't imagine Kishimoto not thinking about it when he was pairing up characters for the end. (It would have been an easy choice to pick the fan favorite Hinata who's only goal is to be married and have a family with the hero.)

 

 

And outside of Kishimoto in the context of his environment, we all know now that he is completely susceptible to pressure...by the fact the he dumped a strong Sakura and her unfailing love for Naruto, for the sympathetic, pretty Hinata. 

 

Honestly, in the end I think he was sick of the manga, because none of the characters are done right by. But it's particularly bad for the female characters.

 

Last point, as for Sarada, you have no way of knowing whether she's going to be Hokage. In fact, precedent now tells us that just as most of the characters in Naruto's manga did not get their goals met, we can expect the same thing from Boruto. Whatever goals are laid out in the beginning of Boruto, if the fans don't approve, then the ending will be changed to suit their demands.

 

And as for Sarada and saying she wants to be hokage, I hate to say this, but I think it's a ruse. A plot device. Something to make fans like her and think she's going to break the mold. But there is no guarantee whatsoever that she's going to be Hokage. And I expect that at the end of Boruto (if it ever makes it that for) Bolt will come back and have a change of heart and want to walk in his father's footsteps, and Salad will step aside and let him.

 

Just once I'd like to see Kishimoto do right by a female character. The only one I can think of that really got what she wanted and stayed true to her original character is Temari. 

 

The fact that Sakura is at home, dusting the uchiha knick knacks that sasuke doesn't care about, taking care of the kid that he doesn't know about, and that there is an entire arc about her possibly being adopted — that's never satisfactorily answered btw!! (just talk about love and feelings) — is such a final dig at Sakura's character. Salad looking Karin and Sasuke's daughter...it's like the mean gift that keeps on giving. 

Or look at the flashback involving Kurenai and her father during Kurama's attack - he essentially tells her to find a man, have babies, and stay in the kitchen, and look at what happens...pretty much EXACTLY that as the moment she's revealed to be pregnant, she pretty much disappears entirely outside of a couple moments, and they all involved Shikamaru

And yeah, I definitely see that happening in terms of Boruto, Salad, and the Hokage position. Pretty much every female who has been shown to have some kind of ambition ends up getting shafted.


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#26564 DrK

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 02:42 AM

Or look at the flashback involving Kurenai and her father during Kurama's attack - he essentially tells her to find a man, have babies, and stay in the kitchen, and look at what happens...pretty much EXACTLY that as the moment she's revealed to be pregnant, she pretty much disappears entirely outside of a couple moments, and they all involved Shikamaru

That part is really kittened up, but what was Kurenai really supposed to do? She had to take care of a baby on her own. She had no one else who could really do it. It's not clear if she even had any living family. It's not like Shikamaru is gonna stop being a ninja to babysit for her. I'm not sure how else he could have resolved the issue of her being pregnant. And the fact that she was did make Asuma's death much more poignant than it otherwise would have been. Asuma was too minor of a character for it to be that effective just on its own. I really didn't have much of a problem with it. Especially since she was in her 30s, unlike every single female in the K11 except POSSIBLY Tenten dropping out at the age of 20 to raise kids. Now that was actually appalling.

 

It doesn't even make sense that a lot of these people, like Sai and Ino, Choji and the random ass Kumo girl, etc, would want to have a family right away. It's nonsense. I can buy it for Hinata and the sycophantically broken Sakura. That's it. It was blatantly manufactured for this sequel which turned out to be god awful.


Edited by DrK, 22 February 2018 - 02:46 AM.


#26565 Phantom_999

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 05:32 PM

That part is really kittened up, but what was Kurenai really supposed to do? She had to take care of a baby on her own. She had no one else who could really do it. It's not clear if she even had any living family. It's not like Shikamaru is gonna stop being a ninja to babysit for her. I'm not sure how else he could have resolved the issue of her being pregnant. And the fact that she was did make Asuma's death much more poignant than it otherwise would have been. Asuma was too minor of a character for it to be that effective just on its own. I really didn't have much of a problem with it. Especially since she was in her 30s, unlike every single female in the K11 except POSSIBLY Tenten dropping out at the age of 20 to raise kids. Now that was actually appalling.

 

It doesn't even make sense that a lot of these people, like Sai and Ino, Choji and the random ass Kumo girl, etc, would want to have a family right away. It's nonsense. I can buy it for Hinata and the sycophantically broken Sakura. That's it. It was blatantly manufactured for this sequel which turned out to be god awful.

 

 

This is true, almost none of the other K11 expressed any desire to "procreate asap" did they? It literally was done so thaty there will be other "brats" for Boruto and Sarada to interact with. I mean anyother couple onscreen was confirmed to have children when they were in their late twenties at least, or in their thirties when they ha a solid career and have at least enough maturity to raise the kids.


Edited by Phantom_999, 22 February 2018 - 11:29 PM.

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#26566 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted Yesterday, 01:03 AM

I will like to Add that I do have a great number of deaths for Hinata in my stories I will later share them its just I need to fine tune them all first, and yes I know, I know killing her is going to far but with Hinata fan boys on Fanfiction attacking NS writers cause we are still around and flagging us wanting us and our family dead well, think of it as pay back.

 

At most I can tell you guys and girl of at least two fully con firmed deaths that Hinata will have.

 

Sakura's curse Mark: Arukas(Sakura's Dark half) snaps Hinata's neck.

 

Naruto Ever After: Hinata gets a broken glass shard in the neck and bleeds out.



#26567 VanitasDS76491

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Posted Yesterday, 02:41 AM

I will like to Add that I do have a great number of deaths for Hinata in my stories I will later share them its just I need to fine tune them all first, and yes I know, I know killing her is going to far but with Hinata fan boys on Fanfiction attacking NS writers cause we are still around and flagging us wanting us and our family dead well, think of it as pay back.
 
At most I can tell you guys and girl of at least two fully con firmed deaths that Hinata will have.
 
Sakura's curse Mark: Arukas(Sakura's Dark half) snaps Hinata's neck.
 
Naruto Ever After: Hinata gets a broken glass shard in the neck and bleeds out.

Naruto ever after is that your corpse party one?
Maybe have arukas rip her head off after snapping her neck scorpion style.

#26568 James S Cassidy

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Posted Yesterday, 07:42 PM

That part is really kittened up, but what was Kurenai really supposed to do? She had to take care of a baby on her own. She had no one else who could really do it. It's not clear if she even had any living family. It's not like Shikamaru is gonna stop being a ninja to babysit for her. I'm not sure how else he could have resolved the issue of her being pregnant. And the fact that she was did make Asuma's death much more poignant than it otherwise would have been. Asuma was too minor of a character for it to be that effective just on its own. I really didn't have much of a problem with it. Especially since she was in her 30s, unlike every single female in the K11 except POSSIBLY Tenten dropping out at the age of 20 to raise kids. Now that was actually appalling.

 

It doesn't even make sense that a lot of these people, like Sai and Ino, Choji and the random ass Kumo girl, etc, would want to have a family right away. It's nonsense. I can buy it for Hinata and the sycophantically broken Sakura. That's it. It was blatantly manufactured for this sequel which turned out to be god awful.

Add insult to injury.

It's funny how Kurenai was able to take care of their daughter by herself and tell her daughter all about how a great man Asuma was, but Sakura can't take care of Salad on her own, is in massive amounts of debt, and Sasuke still couldn't be bothered. At least Kuranai has reasons for not continuing to be a full-time ninja because she has a family to take care of. Hell, Shikamaru even helps out more for a family that is not even his than Sasuke and Naruto does for their own kids.

Kuranai being a housewife was a choice she made because she realized it was just her by herself since Asuma was killed. Sakura wishes she had this excuse, but she doesn't.


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#26569 DrK

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Posted Yesterday, 08:03 PM

Add insult to injury.

It's funny how Kurenai was able to take care of their daughter by herself and tell her daughter all about how a great man Asuma was, but Sakura can't take care of Salad on her own, is in massive amounts of debt, and Sasuke still couldn't be bothered. At least Kuranai has reasons for not continuing to be a full-time ninja because she has a family to take care of. Hell, Shikamaru even helps out more for a family that is not even his than Sasuke and Naruto does for their own kids.

How is she even in debt? That doesn't even make sense. Sasuke would be the only inheritor of the wealth of a family that was at least half as wealthy as the Hyugas were. They cannot reasonably deny him that money if Naruto is the kittening Hokage. She should have unlimited funds to use for that if she's married to him. Maybe Sakura wouldn't look so bad if that were actually happening. Imagine if Sakura was shown to have a huge home and servants and crap. She wouldn't look so terrible then. Why did they have to go out of their way to make her look like s***?

 

At the very least, they could sell the land that the Uchiha district was built on. That would be enough to serve her and Salad for many years. It makes _no_ sense. Even if she's not married to him, and isn't even the mother of Salad, he would still have given her the damn money. There's no reason not to if that is his daughter.


Edited by DrK, Yesterday, 08:07 PM.


#26570 Derock

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Posted Yesterday, 08:47 PM

How is she even in debt? That doesn't even make sense. Sasuke would be the only inheritor of the wealth of a family that was at least half as wealthy as the Hyugas were. They cannot reasonably deny him that money if Naruto is the kittening Hokage. She should have unlimited funds to use for that if she's married to him. Maybe Sakura wouldn't look so bad if that were actually happening. Imagine if Sakura was shown to have a huge home and servants and crap. She wouldn't look so terrible then. Why did they have to go out of their way to make her look like s***?

 

At the very least, they could sell the land that the Uchiha district was built on. That would be enough to serve her and Salad for many years. It makes _no_ sense. Even if she's not married to him, and isn't even the mother of Salad, he would still have given her the damn money. There's no reason not to if that is his daughter.

 

Its a damn good question. Somehow, Masashi gave Sakura a stay-at-home mom role (why's she not working in the hospital as a lead doctor and what about that children's hospital the novels said she created?) but when she got angry at Sarada with the real life daddy/husband issues aka "Sasuke is legitmately playing house with them", Sakura destroyed the house, leading to worry about loans/mortgage... what?! It was very stupid, sort of like the higher-ups, those stupid editors and Pierrot wanted Sakura's adult life to be the lowest of the low while Hinata got be in the rich life because she got her man and status. God, that's like imagining Sakura living in a Section 8/welfare over here.


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#26571 DrK

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Posted Yesterday, 09:55 PM

 

Its a damn good question. Somehow, Masashi gave Sakura a stay-at-home mom role (why's she not working in the hospital as a lead doctor and what about that children's hospital the novels said she created?) but when she got angry at Sarada with the real life daddy/husband issues aka "Sasuke is legitmately playing house with them", Sakura destroyed the house, leading to worry about loans/mortgage... what?! It was very stupid, sort of like the higher-ups, those stupid editors and Pierrot wanted Sakura's adult life to be the lowest of the low while Hinata got be in the rich life because she got her man and status. God, that's like imagining Sakura living in a Section 8/welfare over here.

I guess it was to punish her. Because she was tainted for liking Sasuke when she was 13, and punching Naruto those three times, she didn't deserve Naruto, and everyone wants to see her suffer. While Hinata is getting the rewards she richly deserved for her loyal worship.

 

But the nonsensical nature of this just makes the truth even more obvious. Sakura was the one who was supposed to be comfortable and happy while Hinata never stops gazing at Naruto with longing from afar, no matter how many times Kiba asks her to stop doing it. Will there ever be any justice for Sakura? Unlikely, but I guess it's possible.


Edited by DrK, Yesterday, 09:57 PM.


#26572 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted Yesterday, 10:06 PM

I guess it was to punish her. Because she was tainted for liking Sasuke when she was 13, and punching Naruto those three times, she didn't deserve Naruto, and everyone wants to see her suffer. While Hinata is getting the rewards she richly deserved for her loyal worship.

 

But the nonsensical nature of this just makes the truth even more obvious. Sakura was the one who was supposed to be comfortable and happy while Hinata never stops gazing at Naruto with longing from afar, no matter how many times Kiba asks her to stop doing it. Will there ever be any justice for Sakura? Unlikely, but I guess it's possible.

You see DrK hearing this and why she is getting this treatment makes me both sick and disgusted that it makes me want to rage, but the Hinata fans don't give two kittens cause she has big kittens and is a sex slave wife that will not question her man.



#26573 DrK

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Posted Yesterday, 10:19 PM

You see DrK hearing this and why she is getting this treatment makes me both sick and disgusted that it makes me want to rage, but the Hinata fans don't give two kittens cause she has big kittens and is a sex slave wife that will not question her man.

The absolute worst part is that she couldn't simply have lost Naruto, they had to make it out like she didn't want him at all, even though it ends up destroying her, her life, and everything she ever wanted to accomplish. They made her choose this. It's sadistic and sick. It doesn't even show any respect for her feelings for Sasuke, as shallow and not even deserving of respect as they were. Because she at least cared about him, and herself, enough that she would never have wanted to be with him if he had no interest in being around her.

 

Imagine if you were forced to do something degrading, like being homeless, being a prostitute, or whatever. Because you had no choice. It was your only option. Then a bunch of people, just because they don't like you, started telling everyone that you chose this. Because it was what you wanted. It's just kittened up. And that's what they did to Sakura. People who never read the original manga will just assume that her character always wanted this pathetic life. It's truly sadistic.


Edited by DrK, Yesterday, 10:37 PM.


#26574 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted Today, 01:01 AM

I guess it was to punish her. Because she was tainted for liking Sasuke when she was 13, and punching Naruto those three times, she didn't deserve Naruto, and everyone wants to see her suffer. While Hinata is getting the rewards she richly deserved for her loyal worship.

 

But the nonsensical nature of this just makes the truth even more obvious. Sakura was the one who was supposed to be comfortable and happy while Hinata never stops gazing at Naruto with longing from afar, no matter how many times Kiba asks her to stop doing it. Will there ever be any justice for Sakura? Unlikely, but I guess it's possible.

 

I know what you mean, DrK, and like Evil said, this makes me pissed off because it's a damn shame that this had to happen to Sakura, and makes it seem like in the end that she was punishing herself for mistreating Naruto for some dumb reason, even if she really was trying to look out for him a lot of times, like when she wanted to remove the burden of him going after Sasuke after seeing how much it hurt him, even if it now makes NO SENSE in the "canon" reasoning we got fed in The Last which is still a huge load of crap.



#26575 KClaws_2

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Posted Today, 08:14 AM

In regards to Sakura's living situation, I'm more wondering why Naruto doesn't just offer her a job? I mean, shipping aside, they were freaking teammates, she's married to his "supposed" best friend! Sarada's a genin (I think? I guess it depends on whether we're talking about the anime or manga) who will also be working, and as far as I know Sasuke isn't contributing a damn thing as far as Gaiden explains. So why not go back out in the workforce? Your hubby is clearly not paying the bills (among other things). Did they ever talk about this? Oh, wait. They can't, otherwise the fans will feel their precious ships being threatened by the mere idea passion could ignite between them. But wait, hasn't it been established that Naruto never really loved her? So what's the big deal if they do see each other again. Then again, this does seem to fit in well with Naruto's new scumbag character: not giving a damn about any of his so-called "bonds."

 

In regards to traditionalism playing a role, well, I don't know. I get that Japan is very traditionalist and slow to change, but the thing is many mainstream manga doesn't reflect that. You've got Goku who throughout the majority of DragonBall was unemployed. Yusuke was a delinquent whose mother birthed him when she was 14, that had to have been a double shame on that character! 

Oh, and Rurouni Kenshin (yes, I'm aware of what Watsuki has done. When speaking of this series, I will be praising the artwork and writing, but not the person behind it). Kaoru fell in love with a homeless man who took over the "womanly" duties for her, and at the conclusion she is the master of her own dojo. Keep in mind, at the conclusion, she's barely over 20 and is the master of a dojo in the 1800s! That HAD to have been frowned upon if it happened in real life! There are probably more and better examples, but those are the ones I'm thinking of off the top of my head.

As to how this factors into marriage, Naruto still contradicts that. I had a sociology teacher who lived in both Japan and China for a while, and in Japan love in marriage is considered unnecessary. PREFERABLE, mind you, but not necessary. A lot of times the two just get together believing they can have some sort of working relationship, have a kid, and take it from there. In Naruto, it seems more that the men have to marry the girls that fall for them, because apparently the new rule is they can never change, so you might as well settle. And Sakura let Karin have her baby's umbilical cord, so there's that...



#26576 DrK

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Posted Today, 08:16 AM

In regards to Sakura's living situation, I'm more wondering why Naruto doesn't just offer her a job? I mean, shipping aside, they were freaking teammates, she's married to his "supposed" best friend! Sarada's a genin (I think? I guess it depends on whether we're talking about the anime or manga) who will also be working, and as far as I know Sasuke isn't contributing a damn thing as far as Gaiden explains. So why not go back out in the workforce? Your hubby is clearly not paying the bills (among other things). 

Sasuke does have the skills to pay the bills. However, he chooses not to. Haha.







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