31579 replies to this topic

[jak123]

Bold , So you think Ichigo x Inoue is almost the same like Sakura x Sasuke ?

 

Second bold , where did you see Inoue and Chad have chemistry ?

The shallow crush of their relationship, not anything else.

 

They spent more time together than anyone when they were training.

[jak123]

 

Well Misa Amane is there so they clearly didn't set the bar very high for what they consider a heroine to be..

Even though she was a bad guy, Misa was the female lead of Death Note.

[Toy Ninja]

Even though she was a bad guy, Misa was the female lead of Death Note.

 

Yeah i know. Though Misa was a pathetic puppet of a character. Kind of typical of Ohba since his writing is consistently sexist. Seriously Misa is about as far from heroic as you can get. I guess they should have called it Shounen jump celebrating 50 years of female leads.

[ultranx]

 

Well Misa Amane is there so they clearly didn't set the bar very high for what they consider a heroine to be..

I'm surprised alexis from yugioh gx, and especially akiza from  yugioh 5ds, aren't there. both were more heroine than anzu/tea, especially akiza being a psychic duelist and one of the crimson dragon signers with one of the 5 main dragon synchros. arguably one of the best dragon synchros too, considering black rose dragon's effect to destroy all cards on the field

Edited by ultranx, 23 September 2018 - 04:33 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

I'm surprised alexis from yugioh gx, and especially akiza from  yugioh 5ds, aren't there. both were more heroine than anzu/tea, especially akiza being a psychic duelist and one of the crimson dragon signers with one of the 5 main dragon synchros. arguably one of the best dragon synchros too, considering black rose dragon's effect to destroy all cards on the field

Anzu is there representing Yu-Gi-Oh! She was the first even if you don't consider her as good as the ones that came after.

 

As for why Salad is there either its because it ongoing and they want to promote it, or they are trying to separate Naruto & Boruto from each other.

[ultranx]

Anzu is there representing Yu-Gi-Oh! She was the first even if you don't consider her as good as the ones that came after.

 

As for why Salad is there either its because it ongoing and they want to promote it, or they are trying to separate Naruto & Boruto from each other.

I'm not saying she shouldn't be there at all, I'm just saying she's not exactly a full fledged heroine, she had hardly any duels in the original series.

[jak123]

 

Yeah i know. Though Misa was a pathetic puppet of a character. Kind of typical of Ohba since his writing is consistently sexist. Seriously Misa is about as far from heroic as you can get. I guess they should have called it Shounen jump celebrating 50 years of female leads.

I disagree with that. Just because he used a female in a certain way doesn't mean he is or was trying to be sexist.

Edited by jak123, 23 September 2018 - 01:16 PM.

[Toy Ninja]

I disagree with that. Just because he used a female in a certain way doesn't mean he is or was trying to be sexist.

 

I'm not saying his writing has been sexist because he used a female character (misa) in a certain way. I'm saying his writing for virtually all of his female characters has been sexist in every manga of his that I have read. Misa is just an example. That's what i meant when I said "consistently."

 

Kiyomi Takada (fodder), Naomi Misora (disposable tool, called an idiot by near), misa (willing tool and kitten puppet), Miho Azuki (trophy wife), Yuriko Hiramaru (not respected by her peers and is sexually harassed by her kitten coworker), Kaya Takagi (constantly treated like kitten by the main characters), Aiko Iwase (repeatedly humiliated and not valued like her peers), Kayoko Mashiro (told she can’t understand the main characters dreams because she’s a woman), Natsumi Kato (unimportant assistant who is sexually harassed by her kitten coworker) ect....

 

Hell at least 4 different story-lines in bakuman essentially boil down to putting a woman in her place.

[jak123]

 

I'm not saying his writing has been sexist because he used a female character (misa) in a certain way. I'm saying his writing for virtually all of his female characters has been sexist in every manga of his that I have read. Misa is just an example. That's what i meant when I said "consistently."

 

Kiyomi Takada (fodder), Naomi Misora (disposable tool, called an idiot by near), misa (willing tool and kitten puppet), Miho Azuki (trophy wife), Yuriko Hiramaru (not respected by her peers and is sexually harassed by her kitten coworker), Kaya Takagi (constantly treated like kitten by the main characters), Aiko Iwase (repeatedly humiliated and not valued like her peers), Kayoko Mashiro (told she can’t understand the main characters dreams because she’s a woman), Natsumi Kato (unimportant assistant who is sexually harassed by her kitten coworker) ect....

 

Hell at least 4 different story-lines in bakuman essentially boil down to putting a woman in her place.

AGAIN. Just because he used the females in that way doesn't mean its sexist. You are basically saying that a woman can't be written in a negative way if a man is doing it. Just because he wrote them that way doesn't mean he's sexist or his writing is sexist. Would you be saying the same thing if it was a woman writing all her male characters like that?

 

Also, Miho had a huge goal she wanted to achieve as well. She wasn't just waiting around while he tried to make his manga into an anime.

Edited by jak123, 23 September 2018 - 03:45 PM.

[Toy Ninja]

AGAIN. Just because he used the females in that way doesn't mean its sexist.

 

 

Its not just the roles they play but the way those role are contextualized within the stories - which only serves to reinforce the sexism. Moreover their actual personalities are either written as ultimately accepting of the kitten they put up with, failing to even comprehend it, or just being shallow characterless objects. 

 

 

You are basically saying that a woman can't be written in a negative way if a man is doing it.

 

 

 

If by basically you mean what i can be said can be misconstrued in such a way based on nothing.. then yeah?

 

 

Just because he wrote them that way doesn't mean he's sexist or his writing is sexist.

 

 

 

I didn't even call him a sexist. I said his writing has been sexist. ...This should go without saying but writing stories full of sexism in an uncritical way does make those stories sexist. 

 

 

Would you be saying the same thing if it was a woman writing all her male characters like that? 

 

 

 

Yes if that woman wrote those male characters in works which framed their mistreatment in the same way that Ohba's writings do.

Edited by Toy Ninja, 23 September 2018 - 04:03 PM.

[DrK]

If I had to name a favorite manga/anime it would probably have to be Death Note, but Toy Ninja isn't really wrong.

 

It's still better than Naruto, because Misa obviously isn't supposed to stand for anything good or be a role model for anyone. She was the way she was, she never stopped being that way, and then (spoiler) she dies. What Kishi and SP ended up doing to Sakura was worse. (Than that specific example, at least. I didn't really like Bakuman very much)

[jak123]

If I had to name a favorite manga/anime it would probably have to be Death Note, but Toy Ninja isn't really wrong.

 

It's still better than Naruto, because Misa obviously isn't supposed to stand for anything good or be a role model for anyone. She was the way she was, she never stopped being that way, and then (spoiler) she dies. What Kishi and SP ended up doing to Sakura was worse. (Than that specific example, at least. I didn't really like Bakuman very much)

Yes, they are. Just because a certain character gender is treated a certain way in a story, doesn't mean it's sexist. 

[Bail o' Lies]

When is the last time we heard of Kishimoto's sci-fi manga? How long is that going to be pushed back?

[Nostradamus]

When is the last time we heard of Kishimoto's sci-fi manga? How long is that going to be pushed back?

At this point do you still believe such a thing even exists?

[jak123]

At this point do you still believe such a thing even exists?

Does he even need to do anything? I'm sure he's set for life because of Naruto. 

[Bail o' Lies]

At this point do you still believe such a thing even exists?

At this point it looks like Kubo will start a sequel to Bleach (not just a one shot) before we hear anymore news about it, let alone if it is still going to happen. So, it might as well not exist.

 

Does he even need to do anything? I'm sure he's set for life because of Naruto. 

Not sure he is rich, but I assume he is well off as long as they are able to license out his manga. A lot of mangaka continue to make more manga after the first one even if it is successful. Since he announced it, and every once & awhile brings it up you figured he would eventually work on it.

[DrK]

What happened with Naruto is certainly a unique situation... So it's hard to say what Kishimoto would be most likely to do.

[Toy Ninja]

If I had to name a favorite manga/anime it would probably have to be Death Note, but Toy Ninja isn't really wrong.

 

It's still better than Naruto, because Misa obviously isn't supposed to stand for anything good or be a role model for anyone. She was the way she was, she never stopped being that way, and then (spoiler) she dies. What Kishi and SP ended up doing to Sakura was worse. (Than that specific example, at least. I didn't really like Bakuman very much)

 

Yeah don't get me wrong I also really like Death Note overall. Also that's a really good point. Misa never had her character derailed and her role/function is well defined. Ohba wrote Misa in a consistent way whereas Kishi seemed to struggle with Sakura for a while then did really awful things with her. At least that's the impression I got.

[DrK]

 

Yeah don't get me wrong I also really like Death Note overall. Also that's a really good point. Misa never had her character derailed and her role/function is well defined. Ohba wrote Misa in a consistent way whereas Kishi seemed to struggle with Sakura for a while then did really awful things with her. At least that's the impression I got.

I feel like the good points of Sakura were probably more of a product of Yahagi than anything else. And what happened to Sakura and Naruto females as a whole was certainly sexist. A girl's feelings don't change so easily, as in women, as a rule, cannot control their attraction to and need to possess an attractive man, while men are unique in possessing the higher brain functions to do so with an attractive woman, unless the woman is Hinata, in which case the destruction of the world and all life in it is preferable to the loss of that woman.

Edited by DrK, 24 September 2018 - 01:57 AM.

[KClaws_2]

I feel like the good points of Sakura were probably more of a product of Yahagi than anything else. And what happened to Sakura and Naruto females as a whole was certainly sexist. A girl's feelings don't change so easily, as in women, as a rule, cannot control their attraction to and need to possess an attractive man, while men are unique in possessing the higher brain functions to do so with an attractive woman, unless the woman is Hinata, in which case the destruction of the world and all life in it is preferable to the loss of that woman.

It really pisses me off that so many women actually like this and fail to see the problems with what it's implying. I don't think Kishimoto was being MALICIOUSLY sexist (as in he literally believes women belong in the kitchen and should be subservient to men), but his approach to females was naive.

 

Then again, he did admit his wife often voices her opinions strongly, so he has to be aware of that on some level. I think he was just thinking about what he THOUGHT his audience wanted to see and put what he wanted to write on the back burner. But yeah, I think Yahigi did have a lot of input on the positive aspects of Sakura.

 

As for Misa, she's essentially the Harley Quinn of manga. Her relationship is not meant to be seen as a positive one, that was the point.