17 replies to this topic

[CloudMountainJuror]

A lot of us think Hinata is shallow and immature; her character arc has been simply to grow more confident while her goals have remained the exact same for the entire series. Yes, they are all focused on one boy, so the immature part does show through.

However.

Who else hasn't had much of a character arc, their arc simply being to take things more seriously/maturely (and then regressed from that)? Who else has had the exact same goals from the beginning to the end of the series?

For a long time now, Naruto's character has been bothering me, but I couldn't pin down why. He was just becoming blander and blander as time passed, his behavior tiring and repetitive (sound familiar?). Only now did it hit me that his and Hinata's character are very similar. Not in terms of personality type, but in terms of depth and treatment.

"But Naruto has a solid backstory!" So does Hinata. That whole thing with her clan and Neji? That backstory's pretty good.

"But Hinata hasn't separated from her selfish goal of dating Naruto!" True, but Naruto hasn't changed his goals/crush either, and I don't see anyone critcizing him for it.

Let's compare more explicitly/clearly here:
- Both have decent backstories
- Both have unchanging goals/crushes
- Both had a simple character arc to complete (however, while Hinata's has seemingly been completed, Naruto has regressed further from his; he's being treated worse by Kishimoto than Hinata)
- Naruto has simply had more screentime than Hinata while we saw a lack of major changes (excluding the Pein fight, which was great for his character, but then Naruto slowly and steadily regressed) in him

I now know why Naruto has been bothering me so much. He's bland like Hinata is bland. One major difference lies between them: Hinata is a side character. She isn't held to the same high standards of a main character in terms of development, so while she is bland, she has sufficient character backing to make up for it and for her to qualify as a decent side character. Naruto, on the other hand, is lacking as a main character,

Now, I still can't say I very much like Hinata. Her arc isn't very interesting, and her character is still completely centered around a crush (hell, maybe her arc isn't too interesting because of that). Still, she suffices as a side character. She's a much better character than her teammates Kiba and Shino, that's for certain at least. But at the same time, I don't like Naruto very much for similar reasons (his character is unchanged like Hinata's, only he's at a further disadvantage because he lacks an arc at this point while she completed hers).

My big concluding thought here is: isn't it just a bit inconsistent to dislike Hinata to such an extent while Naruto gets a free pass for doing almost the same exact thing Hinata does, in terms of character goals/crushes being unchanged?

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 05 June 2013 - 10:08 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

A lot of us think Hinata is shallow and immature; her character arc has been simply to grow more confident while her goals have remained the exact same for the entire series. Yes, they are all focused on one boy, so the immature part does show through.

However.

Who else hasn't had much of a character arc, their arc simply being to take things more seriously/maturely (and then regressed from that)? Who else has had the exact same goals from the beginning to the end of the series?

For a long time now, Naruto's character has been bothering me, but I couldn't pin down why. He was just becoming blander and blander as time passed, his behavior tiring and repetitive (sound familiar?). Only now did it hit me that his and Hinata's character are very similar. Not in terms of personality type, but in terms of depth and treatment.

"But Naruto has a solid backstory!" So does Hinata. That whole thing with her clan and Neji? That backstory's pretty good.

"But Hinata hasn't separated from her selfish goal of dating Naruto!" True, but Naruto hasn't changed his goals/crush either, and I don't see anyone critcizing him for it.

Let's compare more explicitly/clearly here:
- Both have decent backstories
- Both have unchanging goals/crushes
- Both had a simple character arc to complete (however, while Hinata's has seemingly been completed, Naruto has regressed further from his; he's being treated worse by Kishimoto than Hinata)
- Naruto has simply had more screentime than Hinata while we saw a lack of major changes (excluding the Pein fight, which was great for his character, but then Naruto slowly and steadily regressed) in him

I now know why Naruto has been bothering me so much. He's bland like Hinata is bland. One major difference lies between them: Hinata is a side character. She isn't held to the same high standards of a main character in terms of development, so while she is bland, she has sufficient character backing to make up for it and for her to qualify as a decent side character. Naruto, on the other hand, is lacking as a main character,

Now, I still can't say I very much like Hinata. Her arc isn't very interesting, and her character is still completely centered around a crush (hell, maybe her arc isn't too interesting because of that). Still, she suffices as a side character. She's a much better character than her teammates Kina and Shino, that's for certain at least. But at the same time, I don't like Naruto very much for similar reasons (his character is unchanged like Hinata's, only he's at a further disadvantage because he lacks an arc at this point while she completed hers).

My big concluding thought here is: isn't it just a bit inconsistent to dislike Hinata to such an extent while Naruto gets a free pass for doing almost the same exact thing Hinata does, in terms of character goals/crushes being unchanged?

I feel he's way different than Hinata, Hinata only has one objective on ehr life which you pointed out but Naruto had a different objective, while his dream is to become hokage, however it started with him seeking acknowledgement, later wanting to become stronger than Sasuke, then to find a way to break the circle of hatred and now is to bring peace.

 

Naruto's main goal is to save the world and bring peace while his dream is to become hokage, which is more than a goal, however he even stated, he just said he was going to do that to make Jiraiya's happy and he never thought about that until Pain's arc.

Naruto had his ninja way tested though different situations while Hinata did not was tested i think the only think that is unchangeable in Naruto is the whole selfless and friendship thing which is part all Jump's shounen.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 05 June 2013 - 08:46 PM.

[HauntedCake]

He Isn't bland at all,and more importantly his ninja way serves others selflessly, hers is the complete opposite. Finally he is not tunnel visioned even when it comes to Sakura. Yes  she's his love interest but he doesn't base his actions around it whatsoever

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Poor Neji :X

[sushi.]

I agree that Naruto's character was way better earlier in the series, but only that.

 

- Naruto has a mind of his own. He is an own person and can do epic things without Sakura in his mind. He cares about the world, his friends etc. Naruto doesn't have one track in his mind.

 

- Naruto doesn't seek anything from Sakura. Granted, Hinata doesn't seek anything from Naruto either, expect in her inner thoughts. Her actions is not based of the desire to be with him, but she should think of something else for a while. It's not healthy for her.

 

- I don't have a problem with characters not changing goals(common in shounen, so why bother?) But ---

Hinata's goal is to be acknowledged by Naruto, but she has gotten that already. I feel as though she's not satisfied and wants more of him(only in her mind like I said). Naruto's (romance) goal is to make Sakura happy, which is simply beautiful, no need to say more.

[James S Cassidy]

Whether or not Naruto is a bland character is your opinion and I could easily say every character is bland using the same logic, (Wouldn't Obito be bland over Rin? Sasuke over Itachi? Madara over Hashirama?), this is not the reason why I disagree. By what you show I could use that logic to make any character bland and one trick ponies. In fact, this whole manga is bland when you put it that way.

The difference being is that Naruto doesn't center his whole world around Sakura or thinks every second of every day about Sakura whenever he is on screen. This is what Hinata does wrong on so many levels and is the part about her I quite dislike. Naruto has been shown to care about many people and care about many circumstances. The only subject he is hung up on is Sasuke, but even then we don't hear about him from Naruto every time he is on screen.

Every time Hinata is on screen we are always reminded of Hinata's love for Naruto. How she idolizes his goals and wants to see him succeed. Yeah, we get it already. It would have been fine in spurts, but EVERYTIME she is on screen she has to make some comment or some thought process centered around Naruto. Does this girl think of anything else like "I wonder what I am going to eat tonight?"

That's the biggest problem from my take.

I can also reverse the very logic and say that many hate Sakura fangirling Sasuke calling her selfish, but think Hinata fangirling Naruto is "cute." If I hate Sakura doing it, I will hate Hinata doing it. I treat Hinata and all other characters the same and while yes, Hinata has less screen time than Sakura and Naruto she could at least have something other than Naruto on the brain.

Hinata's Kiba comment is like the only time when it wasn't about Naruto.

In fact, the ONLY character who isn't bland (by the definition you give) is Sakura, yet people hate her the most. She changes, she shows progress, she hasn't regressed, and while yes she still has unsolved problems she will get to them when the time comes.

So why does every character get a freepass, but Sakura? I think that is the bigger question.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 05 June 2013 - 11:06 PM.

[slimsh4d3y]

Like others have said, a lot of the Hinata criticism here comes not only because she gets in the way of NaruSaku but because Naruto IS her entire character. 99% of the time, when Hinata gets panel/screen time, it's about Naruto. Thinking about Naruto, staring at Naruto, reacting to something Naruto said, anything and everything Naruto. But with Naruto, it's different. Yes, he has that consistent goal of becoming Hokage, but it is not the sheer purpose of his existence nor is it guaranteed to be mentioned anytime he is present.

 

I agree that both Naruto and Hinata have great backstories, and that Hinata has the potential to become a great character. However; Naruto has capitalized on this potential and has broadened his horizons to ambitions to other than just becoming Hokage; or if he hasn't done that, then becoming Hokage is not the only thing that comes out of his mouth when he's given panel time. The same can't be said for Hinata. That is a reason why Hinata is often criticized here while Naruto typically is not. Also, people here hardly criticize Naruto because it is clear that he loves Sakura, which is what we as a NaruSaku community want. 

[FoolishYoungling]

Like others have said, a lot of the Hinata criticism here comes not only because she gets in the way of NaruSaku but because Naruto IS her entire character.

 

Actually, Hinata doesn't get in the way of NaruSaku. Sasuke does.

[slimsh4d3y]

Actually, Hinata doesn't get in the way of NaruSaku. Sasuke does.

Really? I think Hinata gives Sakura some serious competition, especially compared to Sasuke. It's clear that he wants nothing to do with romance; to me it looks like he has never looked at Sakura in a way that was romantic in nature at all. However; it wouldn't surprise me if Kishimoto-sensei went ahead and gave NaruHina a moment that opened Naruto's eyes and allowed him to realize that Hinata was the "one".    I just can't see that happening with Sasuke and Sakura.

 

Of course I don't want that NaruHina moment to happen, but I'm not counting Hinata out until she "gives up" on winning Naruto's romantic affections. He called Sakura his girlfriend, but that sure isn't stopping her from saying how she always wants to be by his side forever.

Edited by slimsh4d3y, 06 June 2013 - 12:18 AM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Thank you to everyone for contributing and for helping me understand what my errors were.

[slimsh4d3y]

^ No errors made. You asked a good question and got some good answers in return. 

[James S Cassidy]

no errors. Just you have your view and other people have theirs, but as long as we understand each other everything is fine

[ladyannelise]

so, i checked out the definite meaning of the word bland before i give out my comments.
bland:
Lacking strong features or characteristics and therefore uninteresting.

i, for one, don't think Naruto as uninteresting.. i think its way too rude to say the main character as someone who lacks character when the whole series is all about his relationships to those around him and how he treasure each one of them.. if he is uninteresting, who would want to follow this series???...
also, why compare Naruto to Hinata? they're two very different characters and even if they are the same (thanks to Hinata wanting to be like him), Naruto has surpassed a lot of shinobis including his master,. Hinata is no where near what Naruto already achieved..

what is Naruto's main characteristic? he has a one track mind, when he's set on something, he'll do everything to achieve it..which is what i love about him... but you say, Hinata is the same on that accord?.. and so is almost every character in Narutoverse, they strive to become better.. what Naruto sets apart from all the other characters is simply because he's the main character, and the focus is on him, so we saw what he had to go through to be what he has now,. double standards? i think not,. check again and compare how strong Naruto is from all the other shinobis his own age.. he may have the 'advantage' but dont we know what he had to go through just because of that advantage? and didnt he managed to make use of his 'curse' now that they are in this big war?..
now, im not bashing Hinata, i may not be her fan and generally i dont think much of her but i think it's nice to see her develop into a better shinobi., i hope Kishi give her more depth, she's surely capable of many things,.. but what can be done?, she's not one of the main characters no matter what others wish for her to be... but there's something in store for her, that i will admit. otherwise, Kishi wont put so much effort in giving her panels.. but that's just me... we all have different opinions on how we try to view each of these characters,. however i will agree on Hinata being bland as i never been interested in her character (again, not meant to bash her, just agreeing to a part of this thread), as for Naruto, Kishi got me hooked on this series and it all started with that lonely boy who wanted acceptance, and as long as this boy continue to pursue his dreams, i wont get tired of watching how he'll progress..

[CloudMountainJuror]

so, i checked out the definite meaning of the word bland before i give out my comments.
bland:
Lacking strong features or characteristics and therefore uninteresting.

i, for one, don't think Naruto as uninteresting.. i think its way too rude to say the main character as someone who lacks character when the whole series is all about his relationships to those around him and how he treasure each one of them.. if he is uninteresting, who would want to follow this series???...
also, why compare Naruto to Hinata? they're two very different characters and even if they are the same (thanks to Hinata wanting to be like him), Naruto has surpassed a lot of shinobis including his master,. Hinata is no where near what Naruto already achieved..

what is Naruto's main characteristic? he has a one track mind, when he's set on something, he'll do everything to achieve it..which is what i love about him... but you say, Hinata is the same on that accord?.. and so is almost every character in Narutoverse, they strive to become better.. what Naruto sets apart from all the other characters is simply because he's the main character, and the focus is on him, so we saw what he had to go through to be what he has now,. double standards? i think not,. check again and compare how strong Naruto is from all the other shinobis his own age.. he may have the 'advantage' but dont we know what he had to go through just because of that advantage? and didnt he managed to make use of his 'curse' now that they are in this big war?..
now, im not bashing Hinata, i may not be her fan and generally i dont think much of her but i think it's nice to see her develop into a better shinobi., i hope Kishi give her more depth, she's surely capable of many things,.. but what can be done?, she's not one of the main characters no matter what others wish for her to be... but there's something in store for her, that i will admit. otherwise, Kishi wont put so much effort in giving her panels.. but that's just me... we all have different opinions on how we try to view each of these characters,. however i will agree on Hinata being bland as i never been interested in her character (again, not meant to bash her, just agreeing to a part of this thread), as for Naruto, Kishi got me hooked on this series and it all started with that lonely boy who wanted acceptance, and as long as this boy continue to pursue his dreams, i wont get tired of watching how he'll progress..

 

Numbering this just for organizational purposes:

 

1. Why follow a series if the main character isn't interesting? Simple: for its infinitely more interesting supporting cast.

 

2. Power =/= character depth. If power had anything to do with it, Sakura wouldn't have ever been one of my favorite characters.

 

3. Again, I couldn't care less about how powerful Naruto's become. Power means nothing in terms of character depth.

 

4. Earlier in the series, I did care about Naruto. Especially in Part 1. I cared about his story, what would happen to him. He was a reason I followed the series. The very early events of the series did show Naruto growing (the parts with Iruka and Mizuki come to mind). But as I grew up, I started hoping that after those introductory events, Naruto would mature over time to keep things interesting, specifically that his choices would mature. He showed a glimmer of that during the Pein arc, but by now that's faded away. Yes, I understand that his ambitions have "changed" throughout the series. Near the beginning he only wanted to be Hokage, now he wants to save the world. But his core character has remained practically the same since then. These specific changes in ambition he's made don't display a change/maturity in his core character.

 

This is one problem I had with Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, too. One of the main characters, Ed, didn't really grow by the end of the series (or wasn't shown having grown). His core character stayed the same. It wasn't tough to imagine that the exact same Ed from the very beginning of the series would be willing to do what he did at the end. Almost everyone else (Mustang, Scar, the Armstrong siblings, Greed, even Al) went through a clear character arc while Ed...didn't. Now, while a character's core being the same from beginning to end can be effective, Naruto is no Rorschach (plus, again, he did show some growth very early on in the series, but that wasn't nearly enough to stretch over several hundred more chapters). There's nothing majorly symbolic going on with Naruto's character; he's just good-old (literally "old" in terms of past) Naruto, because that's what sells to people who don't want change, regardless of whether it'd be positive change or not.

 

Now, I know this isn't the end of the series. I know we still have a bit more to go and that Naruto may yet have a permanent growth in character (I hope he does, not only in terms of being a character, but also because as it stands right now, Naruto isn't showing that he's nearly mature enough to become Hokage). I'm just speaking of Naruto in the present, and the past while.

 

Also, again, I acknowledge that the Naruto/Hinata comparison I made up there isn't very stable. The purpose of this thread is practically gone already.

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 09 June 2013 - 07:42 PM.

[Hopestar]

Hinata is very Narutocentric as was Naruto for Sakura in part 1. She has great devotion for him which increase into love. I don't know why or has Kishi ever explain Hinata's feelings more clearly in how they came to be. At least Naruto had a decent for liking Sakura which we now know (thanks to Sai) it's love.

Apart from Naruto what's Hinata character:brave, strong, future leader of Hyuga clan, well spoken, selfish... Please add more to this list!

Gang, this is going to sound ingorant but overall Hinata "that ass of Naruto" and she's making it clear almost everytime we see her. She just hadn't tried to rape him (yet) like Karin's attempt to Sasuke. Had the pair discuss this? No, but yes Slim is right she could give Sakura a competition but Naruto would have to forsake his feelings for Sakura to be with Hinata. Honestly there's too much history between Naruto & Sakura, that Hinata cannot step to take immediate dominance, not adding Sasuke into the mix, plus Hinata deserves attention priority that Naruto won't provide her. Hell he barely does with Sakura and he loves her. Sakura tolerates it since she still figuring out her own feelings and the Sasuke issue still in the air. Hinata on the other hand doesn't know Naruto as well will be place behind Konoha & Team 7.

As heiress of Hyuga clan, I think she can do better!

[Otaru]

To be fair, Hinata was waaayy much better in first part of Naruto. (as a lot of things)

Back then, we saw her family, and she thought about her sister and her father... We don't see Hanabi anymore.......

 

But i don't think Naruto is as blant as her.

I agree with james for a lot of things

Edited by Otaru, 09 June 2013 - 11:03 PM.

[Canadian_DJ]

Hinata doesn't matter, and never will. True story.

[narusakuforlife1667]

Neji r.i.p

Anyway that was kinda off topic so Hinata is a better person beause of Naruto but if Naruto never existed than she would have never become stronger but I say Hinatas feelings are kinda selfish.