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Boruto the movie is returning to American theatres


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#41 Konoha'sCrimsonFox

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:45 PM

@rocci

the 71 volume sold about 1.2 million copies in its first week. the Naruto Gaiden sold nearly half of that amount in its first week. Now do the math and tell me again straight to my face that this series is still popular. RTN worldwide box office made under 18 million worldwide while the TL approximately made about 9-12 million overseas and that is how much the budget for TL is (that was never announced). if the series is still popular, why Kishi and SP don't have the same numbers in the entire fandom right before the manga ending. Toriyama sure kept his fans and ever disappoint them, so why? why? I don't get your logic that it's still popular that this franchise has lost a very large quantity of fans.

Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 03 December 2015 - 08:47 PM.

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#42 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:59 PM

It took long for Gaiden to hit a million or rather after it hit a million, it just stops or something.

#43 BlackBird19

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:06 PM

I've always felt that the last two movies and the gaiden did about as well as I had expected. The numbers went up some, but that's because all these things were advertised as the last Naruto related works coming from Kishi. However those numbers don't come across as being overwhelmingly profitable. Not for the ending of a franchise that was viewed as one of the most popular manga in a long time.

 

The fact that it's only been a year since the end of the original manga and we're still getting Naruto related projects one after the other goes to show that both Shueisha and SP don't have any confidence in this franchise taking a hiatus and being able to be any sort of money maker should they try to bring it back. It doesn't have the satisfied fanbase to pull that off, therefore they have to keep the franchise active in some sort of fashion for the paying fans they do have left. 



#44 rocci

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 02:11 AM

@dexter
I agree that the final volume of a popular series should sale more than that, but it doesn't make the 1,3 million itself bad(financial failure). Naruto lose fan but not most fan.

And that's sell in japan. Yes, naruto is still popular in japan.

@ryriena
What's this? What is the correlation between the movie and novel? Since when shuseia own studio pierot? How could naruto responsible for the salary of a printing company?
How do you know the movie cost 14 million?

@nostradamus
Yes, naruto is popular and just because fan hate it doesn't make it less popular, look at starwars.

Did burito get advertisement in national tv? Because burito doesn't advertise heavily like your Hollywood movie since it release only in limited theater.
And do you forget that burito make 20 million in japan?

Edited by rocci, 04 December 2015 - 02:18 AM.


#45 rocci

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 02:34 AM

@konoha
Popularity =/= quality.
Just because naruto get hate, doesn't make it less popular.
What important for sj is volume sales and sp for movie is ticket sales.
Naruto is still popular is one of the reason why the anime still ongoing despite the manga already end. And why it may have a sequel.
It's popular enough to generate money.

@touken
It need like 6 months for gaiden to reach a million. It's a success for a spin off.

#46 BlackBird19

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 04:10 AM

@rocci

Yeah your right it does still generate money, but that's because it's a franchise now and not just a manga. It has it's die hard fans but it doesn't have the number of fans it once had. If it did then those last two movies would have made twice what they did, considering those two movies were declared canon to the Naruto timeline and said to be the final works of its author for the franchise. Instead they only wound up around the middle of the pack compared to other manga and anime franchises who have put out movies in the last several years. Most of which are not canon and have not been advertised as the final works of said franchises.

 

And in actual numbers: while Boruto might have made a billion more yen than RtN, that only came out to a 3 million dollar difference thanks to the drop in value of the yen. So they really didn't make nearly as much money as you think.


Edited by BlackBird19, 04 December 2015 - 04:28 AM.


#47 Yyubie

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 04:28 AM

I think you guys, looking at this from your own perspective point of view. Maybe what Rocci means is as long as its still give 'ENOUGH' money to pay the bills then its still good to go and successful enough, while you guys on the hands means if the movie didn't meet certain point then its pretty much failure .. thats it end of the line.

 

Its like from the poor people POV its already generate enough money as long as you can eat and pay bills [electricity,water,etc]

But from rich people POV its not enough, its total failure because it does not hit our expectation.

So you both will never gonna connect/ understand each other.

 

But i think one for sure popularity not always means money, for series like naruto, i bet at least 70% people choose to WAIT for Blue ray release on torrent / any download website rather than spending money to watch it on theater. So i think they suppose to earn at least 5 times the amount of money they got now if only they make better ending.


Edited by Yyubie, 04 December 2015 - 04:31 AM.

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#48 Nostradamus

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 05:29 AM

@rocci Dude you completely missed the point. Again you're just looking at one side without knowing what's on the other side and not even trying to find out. It made 20 million in Japan. Yeah so what? Do you know how much they spend on it?

 

Let me give you the same example I gave you before. Let's say I make phones, I make 100 million of them and sell each one for 100$. Now I made 10.000.000.000$. That sounds amazing right? It's absolutely fantastic for me, I'm rich. But what if I tell you that the cost to produce each phone for me was 200$.

Now that 10 billion dollar mark doesn't sound so good anymore, now does it?

 

This is what I'm trying to teach you. Those numbers that you keep mention don't mean a thing unless you look at the other numbers which for some reason you fail to look at or don't want or just simply don't understand how it works.

Yes it made 20 million $. But how much did they spend on animation, voice actors, Kishi's cut, ads, the sound guys, interviews etc. etc. etc.

Do you live under the impression that those things are cheap? That they don't cost that much or what?

What if they spend 40 million $ on it, do you consider those 20 million a success in this case?

Or they spend 18 million, do you still consider those 20 million a success?

 

Yes, we don't know exactly 100% how much they actually spend on everything and that's simply because they refuse to give us that information. Interesting isn't? That they refuse to tell us if it's profitable for them or not. We just get these click bait articles like "the best selling movie in the world" or "Kishi's masterpiece is a must see" or whatever nonsense they use to attract people in reading those articles.

 

You can live in your bubble of "Naruto is profitable" and "Naruto is popular" if you want or you can get out of that bubble and do some research about how things really work, how much they actually cost and perhaps you'll understand.


Edited by Nostradamus, 04 December 2015 - 05:33 AM.

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#49 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 06:05 AM

rocci is using the number I posted on the great discussion topic, but he only looking at number sold and not factoring cost, expectations and other factors.

 

Let look at the novels yes it was a decent 800,000 or so sold and put them high on the rankings but think of this "Do you think that the other light novels release the same number of novels this year?"Cause here is the thing they basically got several writers and shotgun out several novels in one year in one go hoping to get as much money as possible. Now again do you think the other light novels series did the same thing? 

 

Next they lost according to dexter at least 60% of their fanbase in Japan. Is losing 60% of most anything a good thing? They were probably expecting some losses with the ending maybe 5-15% but they hope to keep as much as possible. And that just in Japan their main base what numbers do you think they are losing around the world?

 

Also it doesn't matter if Bolt and the gaiden is a spin off in your mind. Naruto is now a franchise. They can easily be seen as a continuation or a sequel of the series just as easily as you see them as a spin off. Let's go for an example let's say Fallout 4 sold 10 million but it sequel Fallout 5 only sold 1 million. Is that a good thing for the fallout franchise? Yes it still sold a million but it lost 9 million.

 

The thing is at the moment the Naruto franchise is surviving at the moment with it current number, when is suppose to be thriving. They were convince that IF they made the ending nH they would make so much money it would matter if the story made no sense because most of the fans would love it. Instead they lost most of their fans and are barely hanging on when they were expecting to be rolling in the money right now especially from the US.



#50 BlackBird19

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 06:21 AM

Well it's like I said, it's a franchise and yes it makes money but you can't say it's a truly successful franchise because it's yet to actually end in some form or fashion. If it actually went away for some period of time and still made money then it would be considered popular and successful, but SP and Shueisha don't seem willing to let that happen yet. The reason being that it doesn't seem to be able to carry it's fanbase once it finally comes to a complete end.

 

The numbers from solely Naruto's manga sales at it's high point as compared to the combined numbers they're doing now from all projects tell them that the fanbase willing to buy their product has dropped. Which in turn lowered their confidence in making money off of Naruto if it ever went away for an extended period of time. So the anime gets extended well past a year from the end of the manga. Two movies, a spin-off and several novels within that same year are made and released so that the Naruto brand stays relevant to the fans it has left. Why? Because it's keeping SP afloat and Shueisha needs all the money it can get. 

 

The deteriorating quality of the manga led to a drop in sales that became noticeable and consistent. That was the reason the new era project was created so that they could continue to make some sort of money off the remaining diehard fans. They saw the writing on the wall. The chosen path for the last third of the manga caused a drop in sales that they knew the ending wasn't going to make better. So they had to continue the story somehow because the original story wasn't going to continue to make them money after it's end due to the dissatisfaction of the fanbase over that ending.

 

So those that are running the franchise are now producing quantity over quality. It's the only way they can make any kind of money because very soon the franchise will have to truly rely on Boruto and his generation and I just don't see it surviving after that.



#51 Konoha'sCrimsonFox

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 09:07 AM

@konoha
Popularity =/= quality.
Just because naruto get hate, doesn't make it less popular.
What important for sj is volume sales and sp for movie is ticket sales.
Naruto is still popular is one of the reason why the anime still ongoing despite the manga already end. And why it may have a sequel.
It's popular enough to generate money.

@touken
It need like 6 months for gaiden to reach a million. It's a success for a spin off.

 

I'm not going to spend my time debating who's right and who's wrong. But I say this much. Popularity does not equal quality. Popularity equals quantity. In order for a story to become popular, it needs the mass amount of exposure it can get.

 

Well it's like I said, it's a franchise and yes it makes money but you can't say it's a truly successful franchise because it's yet to actually end in some form or fashion. If it actually went away for some period of time and still made money then it would be considered popular and successful, but SP and Shueisha don't seem willing to let that happen yet. The reason being that it doesn't seem to be able to carry it's fanbase once it finally comes to a complete end.

 

The numbers from solely Naruto's manga sales at it's high point as compared to the combined numbers they're doing now from all projects tell them that the fanbase willing to buy their product has dropped. Which in turn lowered their confidence in making money off of Naruto if it ever went away for an extended period of time. So the anime gets extended well past a year from the end of the manga. Two movies, a spin-off and several novels within that same year are made and released so that the Naruto brand stays relevant to the fans it has left. Why? Because it's keeping SP afloat and Shueisha needs all the money it can get. 

 

The deteriorating quality of the manga led to a drop in sales that became noticeable and consistent. That was the reason the new era project was created so that they could continue to make some sort of money off the remaining diehard fans. They saw the writing on the wall. The chosen path for the last third of the manga caused a drop in sales that they knew the ending wasn't going to make better. So they had to continue the story somehow because the original story wasn't going to continue to make them money after it's end due to the dissatisfaction of the fanbase over that ending.

 

So those that are running the franchise are now producing quantity over quality. It's the only way they can make any kind of money because very soon the franchise will have to truly rely on Boruto and his generation and I just don't see it surviving after that.

 

They taught since the RTN did well overseas and made more than their country's box office. They thought these last two films will bring them millions and gambled on sacrificing their main market for the international.


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#52 rocci

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 07:55 PM

@blackbird
Naruto is a manga who became popular thus allowing an anime who in return may increase the popularity of the manga. The same goes with the game, merchandise, and musical performance. That's what I know about naruto franchise.

Yes, the inflation. And still it make money right.

@nostradamus
Why would you sell phone with 100 when the cost is 200. That's stupid. You should sell it between 250 or 300.
I get what you mean and while I can't tell you the exact number, can you provide it too? Because most anime studio doesn't show the budget.
Since when studio pierot become ghibli? 40 million, c'mon.

What if I say that Rtn doesn't make profit because it need to cover the production cost of chikara arc? You don't accept that, right.

@bail
I don't think they expect spinoff would sell that much.

If naruto lose 60% fanbase, the volume would sell for 500 thousand and gaiden 400 thousand. Does it happen?
That fallout 5 must be bad or own by ea.

Actually in the last three years, naruto sell between 1,1 million to 1,2 million.

@konoha
That's what I said, popularity =/= quality.
Did I ever say that naruto is great manga because it's popular?

#53 BlackBird19

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 01:22 AM

@rocci

It made money but not where it counts the most. Both companies that run Naruto get a cut of what's made from the franchise. As well as Kishi and Viz media for the international distributing rights. Not to mention the gaming companies that create and distribute said games.That means that international currency is what matters the most not just the Japanese yen. So that's why Boruto wasn't a great success. It's value internationally is only 3million dollars more than RtN. Whether anyone likes it or not that's the currency that for all those companies matters the most.

 

Because Naruto is now a franchise and not just a local comic or tv show they need to make dollars, not just yen. That's why even though the manga has already ended, we're still getting bombarded by Naruto projects and merchandise. They are incapable of making enough money off of one single project and then rely on merchandise sales. The demand would not stay high enough for them to stay profitable. That's why I call Naruto relevant not popular. They have to flood the market with low quality works to keep enough money flowing in. 



#54 Moon_Girl

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 04:51 AM

If they didn't touch upon this 'next generation' idea, Naruto would probably be dead now. A good series lives on despite being over. 
Sailor Moon for example; lived on and on and on everywhere despite not giving anything to the fanbase for years. The fanbase kept it alive and showed interest. It still sold things. They never had to keep shoveling out material to keep people interested. It stood on it's own two feet and never faltered. 

 

Naruto wouldn't have done that. Naruto would have been dying or already dead by this time if they didn't keep on shoveling crap out.


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#55 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 05:45 AM

If they didn't touch upon this 'next generation' idea, Naruto would probably be dead now. A good series lives on despite being over. 
Sailor Moon for example; lived on and on and on everywhere despite not giving anything to the fanbase for years. The fanbase kept it alive and showed interest. It still sold things. They never had to keep shoveling out material to keep people interested. It stood on it's own two feet and never faltered. 

 

Naruto wouldn't have done that. Naruto would have been dying or already dead by this time if they didn't keep on shoveling crap out.

Really Naruto was hanging on by a thread before the ending, it was the ending and especially the Last that pulled it off life support. Those two things and everything after that destroyed the franchise's survivability. We won't see Naruto related produces 5 or 15 years from now because they destroyed the series with their cash grabbing nH obsession. 


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 05 December 2015 - 05:46 AM.


#56 Codus N

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 11:17 AM

I've always felt that the last two movies and the gaiden did about as well as I had expected. The numbers went up some, but that's because all these things were advertised as the last Naruto related works coming from Kishi. However those numbers don't come across as being overwhelmingly profitable. Not for the ending of a franchise that was viewed as one of the most popular manga in a long time.
 
The fact that it's only been a year since the end of the original manga and we're still getting Naruto related projects one after the other goes to show that both Shueisha and SP don't have any confidence in this franchise taking a hiatus and being able to be any sort of money maker should they try to bring it back. It doesn't have the satisfied fanbase to pull that off, therefore they have to keep the franchise active in some sort of fashion for the paying fans they do have left.


This probably just me being wildly speculative, but I have to wonder, did Shueisha give the rights to Bones for My Hero Academia so soon because they're trying to push it onto international shores? I think so. For now, they're trying to flood us with Naruto projects until My Hero Academia gets a strong footing. They know that the Naruto franchise isn't going to last any longer, so that's why they green-lit the MHA anime a mere 15 months after it debuted.

Jump got really lucky that a talented mangaka with a series that has crossover appeal suddenly popped up in their radar right around the time Naruto's ending (Though to be fair, the mangaka had two previous stints that failed beforehand). As of right now, the strategy is to bleed the Naruto franchise dry for as long as it can until MHA takes over.

There's two main factors why this might be true: First, anime announcement only 15 months after it debuted. Second, choosing a studio that is also a major western favorite.

By doing the two above, they can ease out the Naruto franchise sooner, and make way for the next big series. I certainly think Jump does have people stalking the western/international fanbase, so they know exactly what they're doing.

The only question is, Bones doesn't do long-runners. So how will they keep the franchise afloat? An anime is the most important player in uplifting a franchise, so how are they going to do it?

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#57 Phantom_999

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 11:43 AM

@rocci Dude you completely missed the point. Again you're just looking at one side without knowing what's on the other side and not even trying to find out. It made 20 million in Japan. Yeah so what? Do you know how much they spend on it?

 

Let me give you the same example I gave you before. Let's say I make phones, I make 100 million of them and sell each one for 100$. Now I made 10.000.000.000$. That sounds amazing right? It's absolutely fantastic for me, I'm rich. But what if I tell you that the cost to produce each phone for me was 200$.

Now that 10 billion dollar mark doesn't sound so good anymore, now does it?

 

This is what I'm trying to teach you. Those numbers that you keep mention don't mean a thing unless you look at the other numbers which for some reason you fail to look at or don't want or just simply don't understand how it works.

Yes it made 20 million $. But how much did they spend on animation, voice actors, Kishi's cut, ads, the sound guys, interviews etc. etc. etc.

Do you live under the impression that those things are cheap? That they don't cost that much or what?

What if they spend 40 million $ on it, do you consider those 20 million a success in this case?

Or they spend 18 million, do you still consider those 20 million a success?

 

Yes, we don't know exactly 100% how much they actually spend on everything and that's simply because they refuse to give us that information. Interesting isn't? That they refuse to tell us if it's profitable for them or not. We just get these click bait articles like "the best selling movie in the world" or "Kishi's masterpiece is a must see" or whatever nonsense they use to attract people in reading those articles.

 

You can live in your bubble of "Naruto is profitable" and "Naruto is popular" if you want or you can get out of that bubble and do some research about how things really work, how much they actually cost and perhaps you'll understand.

 

I can help with that argument too. Take a look at this

 

[post='http://www.narusaku....showtopic=15514'][/post]

 

It is on a different but related subject. It's how anime makes profit in Japan. Movies. Well you've got that covered the money they make is only considered a success if you compare profits to how much the movie costed to make


Edited by Phantom_999, 06 December 2015 - 04:26 AM.

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#58 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 07:37 PM

If they didn't touch upon this 'next generation' idea, Naruto would probably be dead now. A good series lives on despite being over. 
Sailor Moon for example; lived on and on and on everywhere despite not giving anything to the fanbase for years. The fanbase kept it alive and showed interest. It still sold things. They never had to keep shoveling out material to keep people interested. It stood on it's own two feet and never faltered. 

 

Naruto wouldn't have done that. Naruto would have been dying or already dead by this time if they didn't keep on shoveling crap out.

Well technically Sailor moon was still active, even after the show ended. They churned out Musicals, for years and years and it was sort of a Iconic, pop culture character in Japan. 


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#59 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 09:40 PM

Well technically Sailor moon was still active, even after the show ended. They churned out Musicals, for years and years and it was sort of a Iconic, pop culture character in Japan. 

They do the same thing with Dragon ball as well.(continuing to make products well after the anime and manga are over) They have an new game out every year. 


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 06 December 2015 - 01:41 AM.


#60 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 11:31 PM

My thoughts on this.

 






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