160 replies to this topic

[Derock]

Wow, interesting chapter. I'm going to first talk about the Narusaku moment. I don't know about anyone else, but I think the shot of Naruto gazing after Sakura was really symbolic of how Naruto himself felt his chances were of getting Sakura. He personally thinks that there's a huge chasm between them and the main reason why is because of Sasuke and his promise to bring him back. It also shows that Naruto's will to let Sakura walk away from him if that's what will make her happy. I think that's setting up the situation where Sakura has to be the one to bridge that chasm Naruto's build up. She needs to be the one to come to him (like how we saw when she came up and hugged him). It's going to be interesting to see what Sai will say to her. Is he going to spell things out in the Sai kind of way and tell Sakura that she needs to take that extra step? I've always thought that Naruto and Sakura wouldn't get together until Sakura had made it clear to Naruto she chose him and not Sasuke. If Sai and Sakura find a way to make it to where Naruto is, that may prove to be a potential catylst for Sakura to demonstrate this to Naruto. We'll see.

On to the argument over Naruto's conversation with the Raikage. I personally think Naruto's weepy begging actually got to the Raikage. In that last panel when he turns over his shoulder to look at Naruto, that said to me that Naruto may have struck something in the Raikage that he hasn't admitted yet. Also, don't forget that the Raikage can be a deeply emotional guy. He did cry when his brother KillaBee was taken by Akatsuki. I think the Raikage may understand a bit where Naruto's coming from in terms of begging for the life of someone you consider a brother, even if he may be a complete a*hole (referring to Sasuke).

It will be interesting to see what the next chapter will be like. I'm wondering if Naruto's going to crash the meeting of the kages. Afterall, if Naruto wants to change the way shinobi's currently run as his father thinks he needs to, what better way to do that than to put his case in front of the 5 Kages. I know that some people may argue that having Naruto beg and grovel doesn't seem becoming of him, but this is what makes him different. I'm not going to judge about whether that's the best way or not yet. I think we're going to have to see what the results yield first before we can say. I mean, we've seen him fight tooth and nail to get Sasuke back at the Valley of End and we know how that turned out. Perhaps the passive route may be the best route right now.

I agree with this post, 100%!!!

But let me acknowledge this information on you guys whom are saying the scene where Naruto is begging to the Raikage regarding Sasuke is a, in literally terms, downfall for his character. As someone pointed out, Kakashi said that Naruto is not good of a negotiator, for now. Plus you guys do realize that eventually the Raikage and his fellow ninja will change views (along with the other Kages exclude Gaara, whom had already changed and has a close connection towards Naruto, and Danzo because he's a damn old warhawk trying to gain his selfish needs) because of Naruto's "ability" to change and make friends through others, mentioned way back in the beginning of Part 2 when Kakashi talked to Chiyo about him. He already made it through some of the Cloud: Omoi, and to less extent, Samui and Karui (though she looks like she's taunting him at the moment).

While the begging part was a little off for me too, but I think its the only humanly and peaceful way to get his attention of forgiviness for Sasuke towards the Raikage.

And, OMG... Sai, you better have good words when talking to Sakura in the next chapter! I can't wait for the next chapter! I wanna know!!!

[Chivalrysae]

I will have to admit, I did not like the grovelling when the spoilers came out because it kind of looked rushed. But I think the actual chapter played it off better with the conversation he had with the Raikage. I kind of wonder if the Raikage has any idea the Naruto was the one that defeated Pein or that he is also a host. Otherwise, he may think slightly different about Naruto's plea. It's one thing to beg for something when you don't have the power to change things. It's another thing to swallow your pride and take the path of peace that his father and Jiraiya took. The younger Naruto never would have begged or grovelled, he would have picked a fight to get his point across. So I see it as both a sign of his maturity, and him trying to forge a new ninja world. He preached to Nagato that he would change the ninja world, and the world that the Raikage spoke of will never change unless Naruto is able to convince him and the other kages to end the circle of revenge and hatred.

On a NaruSaku note, this ranks up there with the chapter where Naruto realized he hurt Sakura after going Kyuubi, and the Promise of a Lifetime moment. I would prefer that Sai not spill everything about Naruto, but point Sakura in the right direction. Maybe tell her about what he went through for Sasuke, and tell her that he thinks Naruto is doing it all for her sake. I'm sure she knew this when he made that promise 3-4 years ago, but I think somewhere along the line, she lost that realization that he was putting her happiness before hers. I'm really glad this was brought up again. Naruto has sacraficed so much for her, for Sasuke, and for his friends, it'd be nice if she at least showed him some love.

And about the Sasuke redemption thing. I think there are still chances for him to redeem himself. You notice that he doesn't really go on killing sprees. He will just immobilize people for the most part. So Kishi does show some signs that he can still be redeemed. Yes, he is part of an evil group, but he also does not needlessly kill like the others. I think he may end up playing the Darth Vader role (for all you Star Wars nerds) where his redemption will happen at the end of the manga. The only question will be if he lives once he is redeemed.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

I respect alot of Naruto's character and reasoning......I just find nothing heroic or good about laying on the ground before someone crying over a traitor. Come on! Naruto said in his speech that Sasuke is nothing like he use to be(was he ever? lol). A kage that crys on the ground infront of another kage, is one that will be walked all over, leading to the slow steady destruction of his village. This is how it seems for me....

I just hope this chapter was ment as a punch in the face for Naruto to learn something along those lines.

Only for the Kage doing the trampling to be stabbed in the back by the formerly prone and weeping Kage! XD

Although, considering the circumstances that happened a few chapters ago, I could also see this as a release of pent up stress, guilt, frustration, and sadness. I mean, this is the guy who almost had his beliefs destroyed, wasn't there until his village was obliterated, possibly still worried about Tsunade's condition, possibly not over Jiraiya's death, and now, he receives word that his 'best friend' is to be executed..... I think it's possible that he's also releasing all of that pent up emotion, but eh, what do I know?

[jworks]

On a NaruSaku note, this ranks up there with the chapter where Naruto realized he hurt Sakura after going Kyuubi, and the Promise of a Lifetime moment. I would prefer that Sai not spill everything about Naruto, but point Sakura in the right direction. Maybe tell her about what he went through for Sasuke, and tell her that he thinks Naruto is doing it all for her sake. I'm sure she knew this when he made that promise 3-4 years ago, but I think somewhere along the line, she lost that realization that he was putting her happiness before hers. I'm really glad this was brought up again. Naruto has sacraficed so much for her, for Sasuke, and for his friends, it'd be nice if she at least showed him some love.

TotesMigotes!
it would kind of suck and be anti-climatic for Sai to tell Sakura everyting, so i am expecting more of a disscusson about Sakura's feelings about Sasuke and about Naruto's failure to keep that promise. knowing sai, he will just take stuff in and not say much then properly employ the info to Naruto in some way (and be their Date Ambassador!) then we will look in aw as Naruto and Sakura approach each other.

[Nick Soapdish]

I'm still so excited, I can't wait for next week's chapter!

In fact, I haven't slept at all since I came home from work this morning.

Of all the people who could possibly bring Naruto and Sakura together, who would have guessed it could be the socially-stunted Sai? XD

Who'd have thought that you could learn so much from books?

Blinktopia 457

Seems to be basically the same, guess sleepyfans did pretty well this time around.

The link on Mangashare says that it's Sleepyfans'.

[Freakazoid]

Oh is it? Wierd, thought I had the link for Blinktopia's uploads bookmarked. Sorry everyone!

[tosakuai]

I think enough has been said about the begging, so I'm not going to add to it.


Like most everyone, my opinion of Sai just shot up a couple of notches and I already liked him after the last chapter. If anyone paid attention to the Sanbi arc, Sai kept mentioning and writing in his scroll about Sakura's "Love Smack" and other Naruto related reactions. Sai is a lot more observant than anyone has given him credit. I don't know if he's going to open mouth and insert foot in typical Sai fashion, but I hope that he wakes Sakura up to how far Naruto is going just for her happiness. Naruto obviously feels like Sakura is way beyond his reach (as seen in large Naruto and very small and far away Sakura image). I'm just glad Sai has grown a brain and I hope whatever he says will help Sakura grow a brain too.

As far as the "Like" translation argument: If anyone paid attention back when Kakashi and Yamato were training Naruto, Kakashi said he "liked" Naruto . In Japanese culture when you like someone you are starting to fall in love with that person. That is why Naruto flipped out when Kakashi said that (Naruto is so not into guys , not that I think Kakashi meant to say that he's attracted to Naruto. It was more of a follow up to the "I hate you" comment that he said when he first met them as genin). So, Sai is not off in saying that Naruto likes Sakura.

I can't wait for the next chapter. All the suspense is really hurting my fanfic writing

Edited by tosakuai, 24 July 2009 - 05:13 PM.

[canis]

I will have to admit, I did not like the grovelling when the spoilers came out because it kind of looked rushed. But I think the actual chapter played it off better with the conversation he had with the Raikage. I kind of wonder if the Raikage has any idea the Naruto was the one that defeated Pein or that he is also a host. Otherwise, he may think slightly different about Naruto's plea. It's one thing to beg for something when you don't have the power to change things. It's another thing to swallow your pride and take the path of peace that his father and Jiraiya took. The younger Naruto never would have begged or grovelled, he would have picked a fight to get his point across. So I see it as both a sign of his maturity, and him trying to forge a new ninja world. He preached to Nagato that he would change the ninja world, and the world that the Raikage spoke of will never change unless Naruto is able to convince him and the other kages to end the circle of revenge and hatred.

Yeah, I think he learned pretty well, that he can't abide by the rules of the ninja world if he's going to change anything. Besides I'm sure that word of his fights will get around (If it hasn't already). Defeating Shukaku even in part I and Pain now... I guess, nobody will just outright challenge him or Konoha carelessly.
Even if his behavior was clumsy he is aware of Sasuke's situation and personality and is already thinking farther ahead trying to prevent that hatred being passed on to the next generation. Let's see how he's going to adapt now that he was outright refused...

On a NaruSaku note, this ranks up there with the chapter where Naruto realized he hurt Sakura after going Kyuubi, and the Promise of a Lifetime moment. I would prefer that Sai not spill everything about Naruto, but point Sakura in the right direction. Maybe tell her about what he went through for Sasuke, and tell her that he thinks Naruto is doing it all for her sake. I'm sure she knew this when he made that promise 3-4 years ago, but I think somewhere along the line, she lost that realization that he was putting her happiness before hers. I'm really glad this was brought up again. Naruto has sacraficed so much for her, for Sasuke, and for his friends, it'd be nice if she at least showed him some love.

And about the Sasuke redemption thing. I think there are still chances for him to redeem himself. You notice that he doesn't really go on killing sprees. He will just immobilize people for the most part. So Kishi does show some signs that he can still be redeemed. Yes, he is part of an evil group, but he also does not needlessly kill like the others. I think he may end up playing the Darth Vader role (for all you Star Wars nerds) where his redemption will happen at the end of the manga. The only question will be if he lives once he is redeemed.

I wonder... But I guess he'll have to work his ass off for any kind of acceptance.

As for Sai... I think he'll display an atypical amount of tact and just ask her about her feelings for Sasuke or Naruto. I doubt he'll blab about Naruto's feelings, I'm sure he knows enough to avoid that.

[Nick Soapdish]

If Naruto only likes Sakura, there is no need for him to tell her his feelings. I'm pretty sure that they both know that the other likes them. It's only a meaningful statement if he "likes" her.

[RyrineaHaruno]

If Naruto only likes Sakura, there is no need for him to tell her his feelings. I'm pretty sure that they both know that the other likes them. It's only a meaningful statement if he "likes" her.

In Japanese culture when you like someone you are starting to fall in love with that person. So in other he lovers her...

[Sakura Blossoms]

In Japanese culture when you like someone you are starting to fall in love with that person. So in other he lovers her...

Well, we've always known that Naruto loves Sakura. That's been known from practically the very start of the manga, where Naruto's two biggest goals were to be able to be with the girl of his dreams (Sakura), and to become Hokage.

[RyrineaHaruno]

Well, we've always known that Naruto loves Sakura. That's been known from practically the very start of the manga, where Naruto's two biggest goals were to be able to be with the girl of his dreams (Sakura), and to become Hokage.

Yeap, xD

[Nick Soapdish]

In Japanese culture when you like someone you are starting to fall in love with that person. So in other he lovers her...

I agree.

Naruto's reaction to Sai's question shows that it is significant and not just a casual admission of friendship.

[Nee-sama]

Here's a translation that is not Sleepyfans: link
this one uses "like" as well, but the guy is a notorious naruhina shipper so maybe it's still arguable.
then again, that's 2 different translators saying something the same way and that doesn't happen too often.

Edited by Nee-sama, 25 July 2009 - 06:35 PM.

[Nick Soapdish]

Here's a translation that is not Sleepyfans: link
this one uses "like" as well, but the guy is a notorious naruhina shipper so maybe it's still arguable.
then again, that's 2 different translators saying something the same way and that doesn't happen too often.

But in this situation, like means what we want it to anyway. Presumably, Sai didn't use the strongest word for love, but it's very rarely used by the Japanese. (Or so I keep being told by translators.)

[Verilance]

In case anyone is interested I looked at the raws last night, Sai uses suki, Hinata used daisuki of course the strongest word for I love you is Aikitteneru which Sai would not use.

The problem is all of the words could mean love depending on the context. I have seen suki used as love in Shojo manga where it is obvious that is what it means. The fact that Sai then talks about confessing indicates the context of what he means which is "love"

The only time i saw it aikitteneru used is in One Peice when Hancock mistakenly beleives Luffy says it when he said Arigatou

Edited by Verilance, 24 July 2009 - 09:11 PM.

[dl316bh]

Hopefully, this chapter also marks another lesson for Naruto. Begging gets you nowhere. If you want peace, you have to stand tall, be strong, and be prepared to make hard choices. There is never going to be a perfect existence.

Naruto should take a note from Buford Pusser: Walk tall and carry a big stick.

I don't think that it's the solution. I think that Naruto is going to need to kick some butt in front of the raikage as well - in order to prove that he's strong and that he's able to do what has to be done.

Not thrilled about the grovelling, but if he can back that up with a show of strength, he can show that being a peace-lover doesn't mean that the idea is weak.

If he backs it up with strength, I don't think I'll be as irritated. I still won't believe that entire groveling deal didn't feel off.

Naruto said in his speech that Sasuke is nothing like he use to be(was he ever? lol).

Not really. Most of the younger characters had a tendency to look at Sasuke through rose tinted glasses. To be truthful, Sasuke now doesn't seem too far off from Sasuke when we first met him, with the difference being that perhaps he's a bit more ruthless. Naruto doesn't think that way though.

Irregardless, it's still nice to see him acknowledge that things are different for once.

Final verdict for me is....

Let Sasuke die. Honestly.

I'm in agreeance, but Naruto won't give up on him. It's not who he is.

Edited by dl316bh, 24 July 2009 - 09:24 PM.

[Xabsol]

Yay! This chapter was pretty awesome, can't wait untill Sai and Sakura's little talk
Kishimoto, I WANT more Narusaku good-ness!

[Verilance]

what the Raikage doesn't realise but we do is the person bowing before him could probably kick his @$$ if he had to, to me that shows real strength of character.

actually I think sasuke had a glimmer of hope throughout all the Team 7 days, he could have chosen a different path since he was getting it just a bit. but he didn't and the story line was born

[Nee-sama]

Naruto falling to his knees and begging seemed appropriate to me for that situation.. but it's the crying and moaning that made me kind of flinch, although I don't blame the guy for being desperate and at the end of his rope.
-dl316bh- I can see where you're coming from and for the most part I agree with you, but I think it's Kishi's goal to make Naruto an imperfect hero, and you're supposed to feel both compassion and shame for him.
-Verilance- I agree with you too. Raikage said ninjas respect strength and action, but he doesn't realize that what Naruto just did was the action of a strong -and stubborn- individual.
I think the Raikage's look back means that he can at least sympathize with Naruto even if he doesn't respect him for begging. He didn't hesitate to hear him out either, even though it was an inappropriate time, so he gets props for that too.