55 replies to this topic

[Derock]

I'm sorry, Derock, but I got tired of Lois and Clark after a while because Lois got annoying to me. Perhaps it is because the writers just make her super annoying (pun intended). Here is a girl who fangirls Superman likes crazy, but also doesn't really care about anyone, BUT the story itself. That's all she seemed to focus on was the story. She then would put herself into situations that she knew were dangerous for said story and then expect Superman to save her. Then when Superman needed her the most, she abandoned him and lost faith in him. The last story I liked her in was the Death of Superman comic where for once she didn't care about the story.

It got to me after a while when you see other females be so concerned for Clark's safety meanwhile Lois Lane was too busy trying to get that "great story." Superman Returns movie even pissed me off more about her because in this rendition she actually profits on her hatred for Superman leaving.

Then we also have Larry Niven's "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" article which had some good points.

I actually like the new idea of Superman and Wonder Woman simply because it is like an old school NaruSaku stuff. Yeah she could be with Batman who is dark and has troubled past like Sasuke, but she chooses to be with Superman who puts everyone else before him like Naruto. And she is just as strong in will. If you don't like it, at least we got the benefit of multiple universes where Lois and Clark got married and have kids....(even though in some universes this was described as impossible due to biology.)

Funny enough, we also have the fact that Lois was not Clark's first love choice and actually his first love was Lana Lang. Kind of like how Peter Parker's first love interest was not Mary Jane, but Liz Allan, then he fell in love with Betty Brant, followed by the more popular Gwen Stacy. Ironic seeing as many people know Mary Jane the best yet she was number 4 on the list of loves and the former Gwen Stacy didn't happen because she died.

 

The thing about Lois/Clark is that I'm used to it ever since I watched the live-action, the Lois and Clark series. You may be right that she did turn into a fangirl (In the comics, since I haven't read them? Or is it the animated series or maybe both, which I can understand the "always get the story!" gimmick because she was like that). Smallville, however, gave her a better background and personality, IMO.

 

And I did like Clark and Lana in Smallville as well, because they did have the chemistry. Until they went for the silly route of Lana's character later on in the series, and that happen right after Lois became a recurring/main character.

 

But hey, although I like main guy/girl pairings, I'm very neutral towards it. The pairing caught it to me when I was into the other Superman media (90's cartoon, Smallville, L&C). I hardly care for the ones that went very deep (the Christopher Reeve movies, new movies, DC comics) because I didn't watch or read it at the time.

[James S Cassidy]

 

The thing about Lois/Clark is that I'm used to it ever since I watched the live-action, the Lois and Clark series. You may be right that she did turn into a fangirl (In the comics, since I haven't read them? Or is it the animated series or maybe both, which I can understand the "always get the story!" gimmick because she was like that). Smallville, however, gave her a better background and personality, IMO.

 

And I did like Clark and Lana in Smallville as well, because they did have the chemistry. Until they went for the silly route of Lana's character later on in the series, and that happen right after Lois became a recurring/main character.

 

But hey, although I like main guy/girl pairings, I'm very neutral towards it. The pairing caught it to me when I was into the other Superman media (90's cartoon, Smallville, L&C). I hardly care for the ones that went very deep (the Christopher Reeve movies, new movies, DC comics) because I didn't watch or read it at the time.

Smallville was one of the shows that did it right when it came to Lois Lane. I will give you that one. For most of the comic books series and other media, she is always depicted as this fangirl for Superman who is more concerned about getting the good story. She hardly pays attention to Clark and at times beats him up mentally. Sometimes simply for the competition of the story itself. I always wondered "What would Lois do without Superman?"

I don't know, Lois and Clark got too cliche after a while and it was always the same story of Clark likes her, but she likes Superman not knowing that Clark is Superman. It always felt too...shallow where it seemed like Lois only cared about the Superman persona of Kal-El than with the person. It would be nice for her to fall in love with Clark for once and NOT Superman. If you know what I mean.

I do find it funny how many people think this is the first time Superman and Wonder Woman were put together when really this has been done in the past.

And just for laughs, here is Superman's black book XD

• Lois Lane, Superman's wife
• Lana Lang, Clark Kent's childhood romance
• Wonder Woman, often paired with Superman romantically
• Lori Lemaris, Clark Kent's college sweetheart
• La Encantadora
• Big Barda, forced into making an adult film
• Dana Dearden
• Maxima, finds Superman worthy of fathering a child
• Luma Lynai
• Chloe Sullivan
• Lyla Lerrol
• Lyra 3619
• Zara
• Lola-La
• Loana, mother to Van-El in the Superman: The Animated Series version of "For the Man Who Has Everything."
• Cat Grant, dated Clark Kent
• Orella, almost married in Superman #180 (October 1965)
  
  

   

  Never thought of it that way before. Fantastic parallel/comparison =D

  Thank you.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 03 June 2013 - 11:52 PM.

[rikakim94]

sakura blossoms can i make a suggestion?  can we also add marvel couples to this thread to? cause there's one couple im curious to talk about.   

[dl316bh]

Superman and Wonder Woman is a tricky ship. Part of why I've never liked the pairing comes down to the fact that it really doesn't work, given the characters. Superman especially.

 

A large part of it is because of who Superman is. He's the ultimate immigrant. He came to Earth from a dying planet only to be raised by kindly old people as their son. Genetically, he is an alien, but in his heart he is as human as any one of us and it's part of why he loves us so much. Superman's greatest wish has always been shown to be human.

 

For a similar story - which may even have been partly built off the Superman mold - see Goku in Dragonball Z.

 

He's the ultimate hero, but he's so much more human, which is why he gravitates towards regular humans. He has a job at the Daily Planet, he eats, he sleeps, he has an apartment. All things he does not need to do. But he was raised as one of us. It's why he gravitates towards human women as well. Wonder Woman is the sole exception and it never lasted long. They're part of the life he cherishes and desires and they are another connection to the humanity within a man born of another planet.

 

Wonder Woman is a part of that other life - the life of gods among men, facing threats no single human could ever hope to face - and that is largely why it never really works out. He's too human for that. She doesn't really fit that life (and this is also partly why I think Batman and Wonder Woman is another that is always destined for failure in regular DC comics). There's a reason Lois Lane has been there right from the start of Superman.

 

I think it isn't really a coincidence that the sole times it has worked in fiction prior to the New 52 are the times when Superman has accepted a role more akin to a super powered alien god. Kingdom Come got away with it partly because it fit with the theme and story it was going for - as the name implies, there's some straight up biblical overtones in that story - but it never felt right to me to see a Superman that seemed as though he felt he were above humanity. Frank Millers DKSA - which was in part about Superman as well - went the "alien god who knows what's best for us" route who shacks up with Wonder Woman and decides "maybe it'd be better if I did take over or led them" by the end and... that's just... yeah.

 

See also Spider-Man. He's the everyman. The nine to five joe who has powers and uses them responsibly, but is still just an average guy. It's the same reason the vast majority of his love interests are not super powered. Even the one vigilante he's had an extensive fling with - Black Cat - does not have them. He may have super powers but he is as human as any one of us.

 

I guess this is part of why the Wonder Woman and Superman thing feels so false to me right now. As it was written on the page, it was born of loneliness. Superman shouldn't feel lonely, because he's human, not a god other people can't understand. But I just kind of let it slide, because I guess it was inevitable. But just as inevitable is it not working out, I think.

 

As a side note, the thinking behind it that comes from most fans is boring. "Well, she's the pinnacle of women, he's the pinnacle of man, they're near perfect beings, so they should totally be together". I'm not talking about any of you - I don't know what it is about it you like - but some fans elsewhere in fandom.

 

Also, this is why Wonder Womans primary love interest is an inversion of that. Steve Trevor was her guide into mans world. A place that fascinated her. Dude was human. But they kind of wrote him out of the picture for the longest time prior to the New 52.

 

If Orion stops being a massive buttface for a while, I could see myself getting into the idea of him and Diana.Amazon princess and the Dog of War.. Nice ring to it.

I am a hundred percent behind Orion and Wonder Woman taking a go at it. THAT has the potential to be interesting.

 

Plus I'm just ready to see more Apokolips shenanigans in the DCU again. When the hell is Darkseid going to show up and actually do something this time? Needs more New Gods.

 

 

 

Let's see...

 

I always sort of liked the idea of Batman and Zatanna. Paul Dini kind of toyed with this idea in his Detective Comics run, but didn't get to run with an actual relationship. She straddles the line of both the world of humans and the world of gods much better. But I do have to admit I realize from a storytelling standpoint it would create problems. You couldn't have her on a ton of his adventures. Otherwise, couldn't she conceivably just end most threats with one backwards spoken phrase?

 

A secondary is Batman and Catwoman, but I admit I'm in the middle of a spell where I'm a bit bored with it.

 

Beast Boy and Raven - comics, TV shows and otherwise - is my OTP. I've been a member at the Shrine for that pairing even longer than I've been nosing around here. Great chemistry, lots of potential, works thematically and it's really sweet. It's one of my all time favorites.

 

Abby and Alec/Swamp Thing.

 

Green Arrow and Black Canary

 

Big Barda and Mister Miracle.

 

Guy Gardner and Ice. I've always loved that she's the woman who could get past his tough guy exterior.

 

Aquaman and Mera. Since Geoff Johns started revamping the Aquaman mythos, they've become equals. And adorable. Aquaman has the sort of patience with her - even despite the things she's kept from him which probably would have been handy to know - that only comes out of true love.

 

I'm pretty sure there is no movie based on kingdom come, only an comic. Unless I'm mistaken....

There isn't. But DC has wanted one made for the longest time. If anything is holding it up, it's got to be the difficulty of translating the art of Alex Ross into animation. That is, I guarantee you, something that will be a massive pain in the ass.

 

No movies for the comic... though there IS like an audiobook and I can vouch that the voices are pretty damn amazing.

DC has some great audiobooks. I've heard nothing but good things about most of them.

[Dreamer]

I can dig Superman and Superwoman
Bat and Cat is a top fav for me, always
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) and Star Sapphire (Carol Ferris) interesting dynamics

[Lady_duckish]

I can actually understand this, but Geoff Johns might continue to spice up the relationship so it might get better and he says it is more than just a fling and will be the canon pairing for this universe.

My friend made a good point that I kind of have to agree with: Lois loves Superman but not Clark/Kal-El. Wonder Women however loves the real guy behind the big S.

This kind of got me thinking that WW only got with Batman because she couldn't have Superman lol

Did she really? I cant remember exactly how that couple came to be in the comics, but I don't remember it being about her not having the opportunity to be with Clark.

Also, I'm not sure I agree with her being more connected to Clark Kent over Superman. Most of the development between these two has happened in their superhero ID while doing superhero stuff. They even have that God's among mortals thing going on. The two most powerful beings on the planet. No one can stop us. My point is, it seems like Nu52  is pushing more Wonder Woman/Superman than Diana/Clark Kent. Which I think will end up being one of the reasons the break up. That and they obviously have strong feelings for other people still.

 

Old Superman was more Clark Kent, but it seems like the new one is more Superman. I believe they are going with the whole "disconnected from humanity" angle. Makes no sense to me, and I think it blows because being a small town boy with all this power is what makes Superman who he is...or was. I mean, that kind of thing seems like it should belong to Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter, not a man who was raised by two ordinary small town loving parents.I  guess you could argue this comes from him constantly trying to hold back out of fear of hurting someone, but should it really trump that fact that he was raised human in a human environment? 

 

I do like the couple and I hope it can get out of this funky writing, but I think Superman and Lois Lane will be back together eventually. I give it another year and a half - 2.5

 

I think it would be nice to see him date more though. 

 

..and Wonder Woman only got with Superman because she could not comfortably date Steve out of fear that he would get hurt.

Oh DC. Your flair for romance makes my heart skip..>.<

 

Ok  dl316bh. lol I should just delete my post. Eh. That's what I get for trying to do that pesky multi-tasking. 

Edited by Lady_duckish, 04 June 2013 - 12:30 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

Superman and Wonder Woman is a tricky ship. Part of why I've never liked the pairing comes down to the fact that it really doesn't work, given the characters. Superman especially.

 

A large part of it is because of who Superman is. He's the ultimate immigrant. He came to Earth from a dying planet only to be raised by kindly old people as their son. Genetically, he is an alien, but in his heart he is as human as any one of us and it's part of why he loves us so much. Superman's greatest wish has always been shown to be human.

 

For a similar story - which may even have been partly built off the Superman mold - see Goku in Dragonball Z.

 

He's the ultimate hero, but he's so much more human, which is why he gravitates towards regular humans. He has a job at the Daily Planet, he eats, he sleeps, he has an apartment. All things he does not need to do. But he was raised as one of us. It's why he gravitates towards human women as well. Wonder Woman is the sole exception and it never lasted long. They're part of the life he cherishes and desires and they are another connection to the humanity within a man born of another planet.

 

First let me say that I think some of these we should replace "human" with "Earthling." Which is I think is a problem at times because technically Kal-El is a humanoid body, but is not an "Earthling."

Funny enough, one of Superman's biggest flaws was the fact that he denied his alien heritage and wanted to be nothing more than just a regular human. This is why he couldn't be the true Superman he is. The idea of "Home vs Heritage" was always a big issue. At the time he thought he needed to eat and sleep, but really he doesn't and he really doesn't do it later on because he wants to feel more human, but rather so he can keep up the disguise. Also, in an ironic twist, for a man who so wants to be accepted he sure hides who he really is with Clark Kent being the more real version of Kal-El's personality.

I think Superman's greatest wish was not really to be human, but to be respected and not have to hide behind masks like he does with his Clark persona. Even his Superman persona can be seen as a mask. The day when he can combine his Clark and Superman persona is the day everyone accepts the man that is Kal-El. (Maybe even himself)

This is the reason why I like him with Wonder Woman. It's not the humanizing him like some claim with Lois. Although, I could argue that Lois doesn't really humanize him either because she doesn't accept him as a human nor as a person given that she has no interest in Clark, but has all the interest in Superman. Like I said, this is the reason why I hate Lois after a while. Yeah I can see why falling in love with a human may make you belong, but I think it is tackling the problem in the wrong way. Otherwise why would Clark continue to hide himself from Lois in most renditions?

I think bringing up Spider-man is a bad example because he is not an alien. Peter Parker was always human who got transformed into Spider-man. He didn't face the problems that is with Superman knowing that his parents weren't his real parents and that he was "different" Yeah, he had problems with bullies, but that was a human experience.

You also mentioned Frank Miller, but to be honest man, Frank miller is very anti-Superman. He hates Superman and when he did that comic, he made Superman into a brute that acted in ways Superman normally would not. That's why I don't really like that comic.

I think we have reached a point where Superman's love story is severely miss-written when it could be better for both cases. Lois Lane doesn't see Superman as human either, unlike what people claim she does, and at many of times even ignores the more human persona of Superman for idol worship. The reason why I like Diana is because she actually sees the person that is Kal-El. The immigrant who only wants to fit in. Diana is the same way at times. She just wants to be apart of the world she lives in and technically I can say Diana is human, but a different breed of human. She was born and raised on earth, so why not the same?

Not all stories are the same I admit, but again I have seen stories where even the pairing of Lois and Clark is just terrible and you wonder why they are together if not for the nostalgia factor. As I also point out Superman has dated others beside earthlings such as Mermaids, other alien species, and etc. These didn't hit off too well. (Anyone remember Superman and Wonder Woman fighting together with Thor for 1000 years?)

I don't see why people like Lois and Clark so much beyond just the nostalgia factor and that it was the initial relationship. I get told cause "Lois ties him to other humans," but I find this to be a kind cop-out and even at times seems less and less true. Humanity will always see Superman as Superman, but that doesn't mean they don't accept him. Sometimes Superman dreams of being with another Kryptonian woman on his home planet. So what is the real reason now?

I think Superman and Wonder Woman has great potential for a great story, but no one is willing to take it to a route without bringing Lois Lane into the mix. I would love to do a comic where Superman dates WW and Batman dates Lois XD (See the flame wars begin.) It's not about their similar powers or even sexual relationships, but rather how these woman see the Man of Steel for who he is. At times I see Diana treat Kal-El will more respect than Lois ever did and he didn't even need to hide who he was to be accepted by her.

Perhaps this is just as much Superman's fault as he is tries to be human despite knowing he can't. He can't be that Earthling because he isn't, but that doesn't mean he is not accepted.

 

Did she really? I cant remember exactly how that couple came to be in the comics, but I don't remember it being about her not having the opportunity to be with Clark.

 

Also, I'm not sure I agree with her being more connected to Clark Kent over Superman. Most of the development between these two has happened in their superhero ID while doing superhero stuff. They even have that God's among mortals thing going on. The two most powerful beings on the planet. No one can stop us. My point is, it seems like Nu52  is pushing more Wonder Woman/Superman than Diana/Clark Kent. Which I think will end up being one of the reasons the break up. That and they obviously have strong feelings for other people still.

 

Old Superman was more Clark Kent, but it seems like the new one is more Superman. I believe they are going with the whole "disconnected from humanity" angle. Makes no sense to me, and I think it blows because being a small town boy with all this power is what makes Superman who he is...or was. I mean, that kind of thing seems like it should belong to Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter, not a man who was raised by two ordinary small town loving parents.I  guess you could argue this comes from him constantly trying to hold back out of fear of hurting someone, but should it really trump that fact that he was raised human in a human environment? 

 

I do like the couple and I hope it can get out of this funky writing, but I think Superman and Lois Lane will be back together eventually. I give it another year and a half - 2.5

 

I think it would be nice to see him date more though. 

 

..and Wonder Woman only got with Superman because she could not comfortably date Steve out of fear that he would get hurt.

Oh DC. Your flair for romance makes my heart skip..>.<

 

Ok  dl316bh. lol I should just delete my post. Eh. That's what I get for trying to do that pesky multi-tasking.

 

 

First bold: That was more of a joke on my part.

Second Bold: No, not "Clark Kent." Kal-El. Kal-El is the person that is the personality of Clark Kent, with the power of Superman. The problem is that writers keep playing with the idea of "Gods among men," but they never really get into the real idea that is behind Wonder Woman and Superman. Even when these two never dated, Wonder Woman always cared about Superman's heart: Who he was, who he wanted to be, and what he stood for. When he was emotionally in trouble, many of times Wonder Woman was always going to Superman's side to hold him and bring back to his real self.

Maybe that's another problem. Most fans see these two as just "two gods hooking up" rather than a man and a woman. How can you, the fan, say that Superman is an accepted human when you yourself don't see him as human? He cries and feels just as much as humans do. So does Diana. Diana and Kal-El actually have good chemistry, but I don't know why many writers refuse to take it that far. I actually think they have far better chemistry than Bruce Wayne and Diana as Bruce Wayne is more...closed off. Yeah he feels too, but he is not as open as Kal-El is.

[merryGOflava]

I like Lois and Clark more (the Lois and Clark series is so cute XD and funny!)

 

I don't like Diana with anyone XD she don't need a man!! lol

Edited by merryGOflava, 04 June 2013 - 01:23 AM.

[Lady_duckish]

I like Lois and Clark more (the Lois and Clark series is so cute XD and funny!)

 

I don't like Diana with anyone XD she don't need a man!! lol

 

I think keeping her out of a romantic relationship has done more harm than good. Love is a big part of who she is, and so I think exploring all forms of love should be in her stories. 

 

She doesn't need one, but I think romance would be another way to enhance the character. Doesn't have to be a man either. Honestly, unless you want to go with the whole Diana is like a niece to all the amazons, I always assumed she had at least a romance or two on the island. 

 

I actually like the idea of her dating a lot. 

 

Line em up

[James S Cassidy]

I like Lois and Clark more (the Lois and Clark series is so cute XD and funny!)

 

I don't like Diana with anyone XD she don't need a man!! lol

 

How about no love period? XD This way, there is no mistakes.

Everyone always looks at that Lois and Clark series...hmm...weird. Oh well.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 04 June 2013 - 01:42 AM.

[Pocky-chan]

At the end of the day Wonder Woman would only fit in the Batverse long enough for them to show us why it wouldnt work. Still, I fell in love with the ship in the animated Justice League shows. 

 

BatWondy will always be dear to me, but I do like the bat with both Catwoman and Talia. 

 

As for SuperWonder, I like it but I don't care at all for how its currently being written. I think they are trying to show us that Clark's heart is at war with itself, but it looks like Diana is a second choice while he pines for Lois ( I cant remember exactly what was said, but  Clark said something like .."since Im with Diana I cant be with Lois". Even the way they got together was kinda blah.

 

If Orion stops being a massive buttface for a while, I could see myself getting into the idea of him and Diana.Amazon princess and the Dog of War.. Nice ring to it.

 

I seriously don't know how any of this posting stuff works, New Narusaku forum is making me run in circles, the future will be my death, you guys are so advance. B'aaawwww wrai am I so untech-saavy.

 

Anyways, god no. I hope Diana won't go for Orion, even if he stopped being a massive buttface, doesn't mean his sexism won't ever go away. The guy has been callously slapping Diana's butt and objectifying her, even if after she threatens to rip his balls off, it's not like he realizes his errors, he just doesn't want his balls taken off. For what Diana stands for women everywhere, I would be flipping my fingers to the heavens in anger while surrounded by senile and prudish seniors just because DC figured pitching the good girl with the "bad boy" would bring in more sells.

 

Like, narratively speaking, what would it take for a powerful guy (who's probably really old fashion implied by his skeezy choice of words) to change his views and perversion towards woman? I don't necessarily hate Orion, he adds depth and creativity within Wonder Woman's weird family sitcom casts. But that's probably it, he's in the mix as the random uncle that comes in randomly and hits on women like he's from the 50's. It's probably funny and paints Wonder Woman's world with a variety of colours, but to pair her up with a man who represents certain qualities no women should ever put up with would go against what Wonder Woman stands for in feminism.

 

I guess the same could be said for WonderBat... it was cute and funny in the JLU cartoon, untill the show began caricaturing Wonder Woman just so that she could crush on Batman and focus the show on how amazing Batman is. I always got the feeling that the show focused a lot of Bats. Which is unfortunate because I would've been happy to see more focus on Wonder Woman and her storylines (She has some pretty amazing mythos that could've been used more in the show's plotline), to develop her more as the super heroine recognized in the comics and not as Batman's potential love interest. Plus, Batman and Gotham is the only ship Batman will ever OTP.

 

I guess that's why I ship Superman and Wonder Woman, because before this whole relationship began, Superman and Wonder Woman probably had the most profound friendship between a man and woman. They both loved each other (platonically or not, Superman had Lois), and were equals. Equality between man and woman, both in strength and will. That stuff is hardly ever brought up in media, and Kingdom Come had me shipping these two like they were meant to be. Before the silly Nu52 happened, Wonder Woman's character has never been diminished by her friendship with Superman/Kal-el, in fact it was stronger. But Nu52 makes me just want to ship these two in fanon and not canon, unless DC does something right, I will never be happy with Superman placing Wonder Woman as his booty call.

 

Ugh, sometimes I just wish Wonder Woman just lived her life as a bachelorette just because the way DC puts women in relationships has always been written so badly and traditionally.

 

Haha, sorry for the rant. I'm not trying to bash your favorite pairings, in theories and fanfictions certain pairings would be written very well and cute, but I would probably die inside if these pairings were to happen canonically... (haha kinda dying a little with Superman x Wonder woman in the direction DC is currenting pacing at.) DC just sometimes seem to do my ship injustice...

[merryGOflava]

 

I think keeping her out of a romantic relationship has done more harm than good. Love is a big part of who she is, and so I think exploring all forms of love should be in her stories. 

 

She doesn't need one, but I think romance would be another way to enhance the character. Doesn't have to be a man either. Honestly, unless you want to go with the whole Diana is like a niece to all the amazons, I always assumed she had at least a romance or two on the island. 

 

I actually like the idea of her dating a lot. 

 

Line em up

 

idk   I guess I wouldn't mind Diana with that pilot dude... 

 

forgot his name.......XD.....

 

I realize that I like shipping DC characters within their own universe/city  lol wonder why....

[Lady_duckish]

 

I seriously don't know how any of this posting stuff works, New Narusaku forum is making me run in circles, the future will be my death, you guys are so advance. B'aaawwww wrai am I so untech-saavy.

 

Anyways, god no. I hope Diana won't go for Orion, even if he stopped being a massive buttface, doesn't mean his sexism won't ever go away. The guy has been callously slapping Diana's butt and objectifying her, even if after she threatens to rip his balls off, it's not like he realizes his errors, he just doesn't want his balls taken off. For what Diana stands for women everywhere, I would be flipping my fingers to the heavens in anger while surrounded by senile and prudish seniors just because DC figured pitching the good girl with the "bad boy" would bring in more sells.

 

Like, narratively speaking, what would it take for a powerful guy (who's probably really old fashion implied by his skeezy choice of words) to change his views and perversion towards woman? I don't necessarily hate Orion, he adds depth and creativity within Wonder Woman's weird family sitcom casts. But that's probably it, he's in the mix as the random uncle that comes in randomly and hits on women like he's from the 50's. It's probably funny and paints Wonder Woman's world with a variety of colours, but to pair her up with a man who represents certain qualities no women should ever put up with would go against what Wonder Woman stands for in feminism.

 

I guess the same could be said for WonderBat... it was cute and funny in the JLU cartoon, untill the show began caricaturing Wonder Woman just so that she could crush on Batman and focus the show on how amazing Batman is. I always got the feeling that the show focused a lot of Bats. Which is unfortunate because I would've been happy to see more focus on Wonder Woman and her storylines (She has some pretty amazing mythos that could've been used more in the show's plotline), to develop her more as the super heroine recognized in the comics and not as Batman's potential love interest. Plus, Batman and Gotham is the only ship Batman will ever OTP.

 

I guess that's why I ship Superman and Wonder Woman, because before this whole relationship began, Superman and Wonder Woman probably had the most profound friendship between a man and woman. They both loved each other (platonically or not, Superman had Lois), and were equals. Equality between man and woman, both in strength and will. That stuff is hardly ever brought up in media, and Kingdom Come had me shipping these two like they were meant to be. Before the silly Nu52 happened, Wonder Woman's character has never been diminished by her friendship with Superman/Kal-el, in fact it was stronger. But Nu52 makes me just want to ship these two in fanon and not canon, unless DC does something right, I will never be happy with Superman placing Wonder Woman as his booty call.

 

Ugh, sometimes I just wish Wonder Woman just lived her life as a bachelorette just because the way DC puts women in relationships has always been written so badly and traditionally.

 

Haha, sorry for the rant. I'm not trying to bash your favorite pairings, in theories and fanfictions certain pairings would be written very well and cute, but I would probably die inside if these pairings were to happen canonically... (haha kinda dying a little with Superman x Wonder woman in the direction DC is currenting pacing at.) DC just sometimes seem to do my ship injustice...

He is a sexist jerk right now, but I don't think that means he wont ever not be a sexist jerk. If he was ever not a sexist jerk, I think he and Diana would make a interesting pair (:

 

Oh no, rant and bash away. I know for some people Orion and Diana is a couple that post butt slap should never be together, but with good writing I wouldnt mind it and I don't think it necessarily has to reflect badly on Diana or feminism if she did have something with him. As for the other couples, DC crappy romance writing is one of the reasons I have so many ships. I never bother to get invested in the comic counterparts of any of them, because I know it's only a matter of time before its blown to sheet.

 

Eh. If they thought putting the bad boy with the good girl would bring in sales, I doubt they would be selling SM/WW as the premier couple of the DCNu  (:

 

Isnt changing people one of the old school missions of Wonder Woman? And no, not the stupid change the man before you date him thing. People change because of Diana just being Diana. Not because she's got a mission to fix em before she dates him. 

Edited by Lady_duckish, 04 June 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Oh no, rant and bash away.

 

Well, rant yes, bash no ^^

Though I didn't read any bashing. Just a very heartfelt post =3

[Lady_duckish]

 

Well, rant yes, bash no ^^

Though I didn't read any bashing. Just a very heartfelt post =3

Understandable if she  wanted to,  but no. I see no bashing

Edited by Lady_duckish, 04 June 2013 - 06:26 AM.

[dl316bh]

Funny enough, one of Superman's biggest flaws was the fact that he denied his alien heritage and wanted to be nothing more than just a regular human.

 

I'd argue the exact opposite; the fact that it eschews his alien heritage is the reason he is so much more than he ever could be.

 

But since I couldn't explain it as well as Chris Sims, I'll defer to him on the Krypton stuff:

 

One of the most interesting aspects of his character -- and one that I think is genuinely important for making this godlike character someone that we can relate to and sympathize with -- is that he's the Last Son of Krypton™. He's the only surviving remnant of this civilization, and while he's embraced by Earth and accepted as one of us, raised by kindhearted humans to be the most human of all the superheroes, mentally and emotionally, he'll always have that powerful sense of loss behind him. He needs to.

Peter Parker is an ordinary guy (brilliant, of course, but otherwise ordinary) and all it takes to change his life forever is the loss of one person. Batman is an exceptional human being -- photographic memory, naturally athletically gifted, crazy rich, dope car -- and for him, the loss of two people sends him down a path that I think we can all agree is just a little extreme. But Superman? He's far beyond us mortal men, more powerful than we can even really comprehend. He's bigger, and because of that, he needs something bigger looming behind him. So he loses an entire world.

Think about that for a second: Every single culture, every achievement, every person on the planet Krypton, gone, exploded into dust in the vacuum of space, except for one child. I've never liked stories that treat Superman as an outsider or work on the premise that he thinks of himself as anything other than Clark Kent from Smallville, Kansas, because I think it's just as important that he feels at home on the Earth, and that Superman's morality is just an extension of Clark Kent's, but that's still a powerful burden. He's the last of his kind, and that knowledge is part of the reason he wants to save each and every one of us. He knows how precious our lives are, because in a way, we're all the last of our kind. On Krypton, there was nothing anyone could do to prevent that tragedy, not with all their science. On Earth, Superman can do anything, and what he does is keep us from the same fate as Krypton, whether as a whole or individuals.

That's why I've always hated it when stuff from Krypton pops up in comics, and why I love the poetry of Kryptonite. There's something that just underscores it all by having the only remnants of Krypton be these little chunks of death -- constant, tangible reminders of the fate that befell every single other person on his planet. And it's also why my favorite version of Krypton is the one that John Byrne cooked up in Man of Steel

 

It's not the vibrant world of capes and insignias that we saw in the Silver Age. It's a place without emotion. It's a cold world without love, where a husband never touches his wife, and because of that, it's a dead planet long before it explodes. Jor-El's achievement isn't building a rocket that can take his son to Earth, it's that he cares enough to do it, and the fact that his last act is to tell Lara he loves her, a spark of actual life right before it's all destroyed is so metaphorically perfect that it blows my mind every time I read it. It simultaneously makes Krypton a place that you'd never want to see restored or revived, but shows that for all its sterility, it's still a world of people who had the potential to feel and love and laugh, and that it's those emotions that gave us Superman.

For me, that's the magic formula of Superman's heritage: He's isolated as a Kryptonian, but accepted as a human. He loses a planet, but gains another. If I had my way (and it's pretty clear at this point that I don't), he'd never really know a whole lot about Krypton -- just enough to understand that he lost an entire world and that there was a family and a history that he'll never know. Anything more than that is just fetishizing the past, a trick that superhero comics are particularly good at.

When you combine all of those bits and pieces into a whole, it shows exactly why I don't like it when stuff from Krypton shows up in Superman stories. The Phantom Zone Criminals, Kandor, the pets, and worst of all, the all-knowing floating Jor-El head that showed up in Superman: The Movie and will not stop weaseling its way into comics, movies and TV shows -- they all run counter to that delicate balance of isolation and acceptance. I like a lot of that stuff (you show me someone who doesn't like Krypto and I will show you a heartless monster) but every time one shows up, it pokes a little hole in that aspect of Superman. They tie him back to a dead world while isolating him from the one that's alive right now. Every time you see Jor-El and Lara, you're seeing Kal-El the Kryptonian, not Jonathan and Martha's son who puts on a cape and goes out to help people because he can.

 

I've mentioned before that for Batman's origin, Bruce Wayne's childhood should be absolutely idyllic in order to heighten the motivating tragedy of his parents' murder. For Superman, however, it's the reverse: Life on Krypton shouldn't be something Clark Kent should ever aspire to -- the definitive factor for him isn't where he was born, but rather the guidance he gets from the Kents and, by extension, the acceptance of Earth. He's embraced by his adopted home, and it's that act that makes him its protector. Krypton just doesn't matter.

So instead, Byrne uses Krypton to illustrate just what's so great about Earth: That we are nothing but emotions and life that's worth protecting

 

 

 

idk   I guess I wouldn't mind Diana with that pilot dude...

 

Steve Trevor. He's only recently been made a factor again in comics.

Edited by dl316bh, 04 June 2013 - 07:33 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

 

I'd argue the exact opposite; the fact that it eschews his alien heritage is the reason he is so much more than he ever could be.

 

But since I couldn't explain it as well as Chris Sims, I'll defer to him on the Krypton stuff:

Two words: Superman: Birthright.
 

I'm sorry, but that is wrong on so many levels. I would explain, but I am not gonna to make the topic OT. I'll explain later when I have time in a private message. For now, I just wanted to comment and say that what Chris Sims said goes against everything Superman and Wonder Woman stand for in terms of "Acceptance."

Anyway,

I don't know why, but depending on how they write it I do sometimes like the Robin/Nightwing x Raven couple.

I also like the Wally West (Flash) x Artemis Crock pairing.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 04 June 2013 - 04:49 PM.

[Pocky-chan]

 

Well, rant yes, bash no ^^

Though I didn't read any bashing. Just a very heartfelt post =3

 

 

Oh no, rant and bash away. I know for some people Orion and Diana is a couple that post butt slap should never be together, but with good writing I wouldnt mind it and I don't think it necessarily has to reflect badly on Diana or feminism if she did have something with him. As for the other couples, DC crappy romance writing is one of the reasons I have so many ships. I never bother to get invested in the comic counterparts of any of them, because I know it's only a matter of time before its blown to sheet.

 

Eh. If they thought putting the bad boy with the good girl would bring in sales, I doubt they would be selling SM/WW as the premier couple of the DCNu  (:

 

Isnt changing people one of the old school missions of Wonder Woman? And no, not the stupid change the man before you date him thing. People change because of Diana just being Diana. Not because she's got a mission to fix em before she dates him. 

 

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH THE NICE RESPONSES ARE KILLING MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! I ALWAYS FELT LIKE I WAS AT WAR WITH PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE I LIKED SOMETHING THEY DIDN'T LIKE     

 

I FORGOT HOW POLITE AND RECEPTIVE THIS FORUM WAS       

 

This missing-nin loves you guys for being so respectful and geeky 

 

Also gonna add my guilty pleasure because I just remembered it now and I don't want to stray from topic.

 

Mar'i GraysonxDamian Wayne

 

They're like the cutest babies to have ever been paired both fanonically and Elseworlds. Uuuuggghhhh my heart twinges knowing there's not enough love for them among the community 

Edited by Pocky-chan, 04 June 2013 - 07:04 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

I know this is a little OT, but I just wanted to post this. I thought it was interesting

[Sakura Blossoms]

I know this is a little OT, but I just wanted to post this. I thought it was interesting

 
It's not OT at all since it's talking about a pairing that you like/love in the DC universe, and in fact it's fantastic! Thanks for sharing the link~
I heartily agreed with all of them most especially #2 and VERY much so #1 :3