31581 replies to this topic

[BlackShirtGuy]

 

As far as I'm concerned, the relationship between Naruto and Sakura was an element of the story independent of its status of a ship and thus warranted proper story resolution. It didn't get any and the Promie Of A Lifetime was swept under the rug without so much as a thank you from Sakura. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible storytelling. Just awful.

Yup, Naruto and Sakura's bond got screwed with the ending  and both characters suffered heavily for this too, that's probably because of NH and SS which completely goes against the NS bond but I don't know, it's just a guess.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well, I already said my piece back at social media; I won't even bother here. All I'm going to say is selective reading was a mistake.

[James S Cassidy]

Well, I already said my piece back at social media; I won't even bother here. All I'm going to say is selective reading was a mistake.

More like selective writing was a mistake.

[BlackShirtGuy]

More like selective writing was a mistake.

Being animated by Studio Pierriot was the final one.

[TouKen4Life3g]

More like selective writing was a mistake.

That too. I just mean the audience. I respect the opinion, but the dismissal of obvious flaw is a bit strange. I finally gotten to the point that I really shouldn't bother with it.

[James S Cassidy]

That too. I just mean the audience. I respect the opinion, but the dismissal of obvious flaw is a bit strange. I finally gotten to the point that I really shouldn't bother with it.

I know. I am just adding the fact that Kishimoto forget certain things for the sake of  others.
 

 

What selective writing?

Start with chapter 3....and every other element that was lost in the sea of pairing fodder.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 10 August 2017 - 12:25 AM.

[T XD]

1: I read the previous page. Nowhere did it say it was decided NS at any point.

 

2: If I can't find it, you need to show me. This suggests it doesn't exist.

 

3: Part of Sakura's growth was also keeping up to her team-mates, as well as her friendship with Ino, and her part in the first part of Shippuden was notably absent of Sasuke. Part of it was yes, attached to Sasuke, though, but it has little to do with the pairing, and more to do with saving him.

 

4: It's still all speculation. This is practically synonymous with possibilities. We're just playing diction here.

- Going by your words, you missed it then.

 

- I don't have the source to show it to you. Simply, either look up for it or don't. If you want to go with the suggestion that it doesn't exist then that's your choice.

 

- Yes, these are part of her growth as seen what she said of them and what are shown of them. Plus, a significant part of what's shown in the manga is her moving on from her attachment to Sasuke will help her character growth. Her character suffered well from this in the manga, the contexts consistency were clear when Sakura was showing suffering from her attachment. 699 and her getting married to Sasuke significantly regressed her character cause moving on from Sasuke was significant part of her character growth since Part 1.

About her attachment of Sasuke : Be factual, don't project your views about her attachment to Sasuke as the correct one, think of good writing and think of the characters' consistency.

 

- According to literacy, no. ' Speculation ' has a definition and ' Possibility ' has another definition. I wasn't theorizing. I was listing three optional things that may be the case.

Edited by T XD, 10 August 2017 - 01:31 AM.

[LuckyChi7]

Alright I think it's time I started to giving my two cents on the whole NS discussion which I haven't delve into for a longtime:  So just to let you all know this will probably will be split into 3 to potentially 4 separate posts.   

 

 

 

First off let's trace this whole thing back to 2014 after Naruto, there are two key specific details Kishi stated:

 

1.  NaruSaku was nothing more than just a red herring. 

 

 

now lets look at red herring defintion: something intended to divert attention from the real problem or matter at hand; a misleading clue. Mainly used in the work of mystery/thriller.   

 

 

That's the key words right there misleading clue. 

 

In terms of the story, who is it about: NARUTO 

 

Not Sasuke, Not Sakura, Yes they are main characters, but they are not the main protagonist. That goes to Naruto Uzumaki we are learning about his story. It's not called Sasuke,  and Especially not Hinata. who remember is a "side" character.  

 

 

Which brings to the first part about this whole thing:

 

 Let's look at  Naruto's character: 

 

What does he want to achieve? To Become Hokage, and be respected by the village? 

Who does he like: Sakura 

 

 

Proof: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

definition of Like in context of Naruto describes Sakura: to feel affection for someone.

 

This is still establishing in THE BEGINNING  for Naruto's Character, and why is that: 

 

Key word, Acknowledgement <-    That's why he likes her so much 

 

 

Proof: 

 

 

 

 

Again this is establishing Naruto's character so he can relate to Sakura on that causing an attraction towards her.  Again do we see more signs of Naruto liking Sakura absolutely: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's the point again to establish that he likes her very much! 

 

 

So lets keep this cycle going again: 

 

 

 

 

during the Chunin Exams: 

 

 

 

 

When was this? 

 

The perliminaries during Sakura's math against Ino. 

 

 

 

 

Continuing the trend: 

 

This time the fight with Gaara these two pages: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then we cut to this scene from the end of the Tsunade arc: 

 

 

 

 

What is it that Naruto's doing right here,  He loves her so much he's deciding not to bud in because why? It's not the best time again? He's doing it for SAKURA want more  cause Chapter 183 title - PROMISE OF A LIFETIME: 

 

 

 

 

 

Once again his feelings in Part 1 strictly towards Sakura, and also this: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like I've been saying he's putting her before himself,  like people need to realize how beautiful that is to do something for the woman you love especially if it's towards liking someone.  I should know I've been in that situation before multiple times.  Again that shows a huge amount of maturity for Naruto's character he's not really doing it because Sasuke's just his teammate, the other main reason was Sakura herself. 

 

 

 

And if there's more i want to add as to why he like her so much: 

 

 

 

 

 

That quote on the side directly tells me it's from Naruto it's not just randomly there... That quote alone should tell you why it's important. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure I might be reiterating here, but again look how far he's willing to go just to make sure she's happy. 

 

 

 

Alright that concludes the first part of my explanation.   My next post on here is going to revolve around Sakura in Part 1 much like I did here with Naruto so stay tuned for that.   

Edited by LuckyChi7, 10 August 2017 - 02:45 AM.

[Catra]

those faces he makes still speak to me even after all these years. seriously wished both of them came to the conclusion "yeah sasuke is a bad person idk what the hell i saw in this jerk." and just killed him off or at least written better. cuz the one we got isn't a good person no matter how you slice it.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Saving the guy ruins the flow of the fighting. It's holding back versus all out. The dialogues make it worse because you're reminded that they're fighting for a different reason, dampening the tension.

[T XD]

 

1: Quote it then?

 

2: No? If you can't provide the source, I don't think you can use it. When I'm challenged, I do go back and find the source, at least say what chapter it is, and so forth. If you're going to make a statement and say its true, you have to be able to show its true.

 

3: Sakura...regressed? This is laughable. I can write all about how this is -not- true, if you like. This is a shipper's argument, I.E., this idea that she -had- to move on from Sasuke. It's basically the same faulty argument that's put at Hinata, that she -has- to move on from Naruto, and she regressed. No. Absolutely not.

 

4: And based on what? A Narrative of not caring has no foundation. It's a poor argument at best.

Think whatever you want to think and whatever you want to choose.

 

I've seen what you said before in other posts about Sakura's character and what you think of SS. Basically, a lot from your own projection on the matter with no facts, and with no character consistency and their role, which eventually will lead us going in circles and ending up going nowhere with this. Sorry. I'll have to pass.

Edited by T XD, 10 August 2017 - 05:52 PM.

[BlackShirtGuy]

Sasuke shoudl've died, his role in Boruto is way beyond stupid, I understand the part of wanting to find redemption, okay but why couldn't he stayed at the village to protect it.
Now I'm pretty sure some might think, well he got redeemed anyways and he is helping people so it's the same, right? , no, that isn't right, first off like everyone know one main plot point since the end of part 1 was to bring Sasuke home so team 7 could be together again, even at times when we were explicitly told Sasuke couldn't be saved, our protag was like "No, one day team 7 will laugh together again".
Futhermore there is no reason why he can't stay on the village and protect it just like his brother did and no, the argument Sasuke wouldn't want to stay on the village that he brother died to protect and the villagers will never accepted(well appearntly they are ok with Orochimaru so), also Sasuke never gave a damn to what others think of him and that's something that stayed true to his character, at least.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Sasuke shoudl've died, his role in Boruto is way beyond stupid, I understand the part of wanting to find redemption, okay but why couldn't he stayed at the village to protect it.
Now I'm pretty sure some might think, well he got redeemed anyways and he is helping people so it's the same, right? , no, that isn't right, first off like everyone know one main plot point since the end of part 1 was to bring Sasuke home so team 7 could be together again, even at times when we were explicitly told Sasuke couldn't be saved, our protag was like "No, one day team 7 will laugh together again".
Futhermore there is no reason why he can't stay on the village and protect it just like his brother did and no, the argument Sasuke wouldn't want to stay on the village that he brother died to protect and the villagers will never accepted(well appearntly they are ok with Orochimaru so), also Sasuke never gave a damn to what others think of him and that's something that stayed true to his character, at least.

And if Sasuke "must" be away from Konoha while finding "redemption" - show us what he's doing to find that "redemption". You can't just say "redemption" and expect everyone to instantly think he's like Kenshin Himura in Rurouni Kenshin. Not only are we consistently told about Kenshin wanting to redeem himself for his actions in the past, but we're also consistently shown his attempts at redemption through the series itself with his use of the reverse blade sword, his keeping of his vow to never kill again, and also the internal struggle to not break that vow with the possibility of reverting back to his Hitokiri Battousai self, especially when facing ruthless adversaries who were still like they were back then or wished to bring back those days - Jinei Udoh, Hajime Saito,Makoto Shishio, etc.

[Nate River]

Only addressing this part.
 
Sakura has issues, not in growth so much, or journey, but overshadowing. Sakura's thing in this last part was keeping up with her team-mates, which is shown/wrapped up in the Kaguya fight. Then next is the N and S fight. And I get the complaint, she's pushed to the side for it. So she gives her little speech, Kakashi berates Sasuke on it afterwards, but what it does do is show that Sasuke is very much still against bonds, that he will not let himself love her, as in he's trying to break all bonds. Sakura also has always been a caregiver, her words aren't intent really on standing up for herself, but really, a sorrow that she cannot save him, and because she loves him, it hurts. I don't think a standing up for herself speech would address that, or really is what the heart of the issue is for her. Still, I -get- where this comes from, because she is pushed aside. 
 
The Coolest Guy ever quote is largely misunderstood and I think over-hyperbolized. Naruto obviously isn't referring to Obito's dark traits with this adjective, and really referring more to who Obito once was/was trying to be when he was acting more heroic towards the end. Largely, it's Naruto's ability to see past the monster that Madara helped forged to who he truly was.
 
That said, Obito, messed up guy, villain, no sympathy for him, but I understand the quote's meaning.

You misunderstand both my objections.

 

On Sakura, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean she should give a speech about that subject. My objection to that scene it is same song, same verse as the end of Part 1. I don't think you can do that here because those events in Part 1 were what spurred her to improve herself. She vowed to stand with them. Whether she explicitly says it or not, that its used as motivation implies that they were viewed as a weakness. As I said before, what is the point of everything she did if, when confronted with the same scenario, she's on her knee's sobbing and begging him to stay? It's passable if the only point of the scene is simply to affirm to the audience that she stills loves him and to demonstrate its depth. But it's difficult to believe that a guy who relied on parallel's as much as Kishimoto wasn't paralleling the end of Part 1 or, at the very least, was oblivious to the connection.

 

I only through the stand up for herself part it as a spit ball idea if the series was hellbent on doing an SS scene there. That if she did show spine rather than blubber, Sasuke might respect that. At the very least, she should have delivered her plea in a manner that didn't make her look weak and ineffective. It didn't help that even in the final "group" fight she was left on the side with the exception of a token gesture. I don't think crying, begging, and getting Tsukiyomi'd onto the sidelined is what I expected to happen to her at the end of her character journey. How is that different from Sasuke KO'ing her and then leaving the village?

 

I also threw that line in to emphasize that dislike of that scene isn't rooted in butthurt over the pairings. I didn't like the end pairings and I have issues with what was done, but by then they were a low priority for me. One of the reasons I'm steering clear of the pairing debate going on in this thread is because I don't really care. I'd have hated the ending even if it went NS.

 

As for Naurto, I never said he was referring to his dark traits and that's not my objection. My objection is that it deliberately glosses over those traits. When speaking to Pain, Naruto told him he could not forgive him, but spared him anyway. This looks human and at least subtely acknowledges what Pain had done. Naruto took offense to Zetsu mocking Obito's sacrifice. I better and less offensive approach would have been to acknowledge his crimes, but at least commend him for doing the right thing in the end.

 

Granted I'd have still been unhappy, but I wouldn't see it as the manga's lowest point. I cannot overlook the fact that occurs at the end of series of events where the series repeatedly failed to hold people accountable. The two biggest issues are the lack of accountability and the utter failure to challenge Naruto's philosophy in the area where it was weakest. Pain, Itachi, and Obito were effectively allowed to die on their own terms. Sasuke was let off because he helped beat Pain (let's ignore that his motivation was totally self-serving which doesn't neatly line up with the concept of redemption),. Kabuto and Orochimaru were also let off. Kabuto was scene running an orphanage. Did all the characters seemingly forget that he used his Edo Army to aid Obito and completely forget how the Edo army was made? He's either a mass serial killer or a mass grave robber (or both) (and don't get me started on Izanami). Orichimaru...the last time he escaped accountability he lead a full scale invasion of Konoha. It was an enormous blunder by the Third that cost lives. Amazingly, this never happened to Naruto and no one who you expect to complain about such things is ever around. We almost got their with Pain, but then Gedo Mazo happened and its all got tossed.

 

The next time we see Obito its with Rin and in kid form. The message really seemed to be that his actions absolved him of his sins. The only objection came in the form of mooks who cheered on Kakashi when he went to kill Obito, only to be absent when he doesn't follow through.

 

With all this as its backdrop, it's hard believe that Naruto's line wasn't a deliberate overlooking of Obito's sins. Even if that wasn't his intent, that doesn't change anything. It just makes Naruto (and Kishimoto) look totally tin eared. At least the alliance was trapped in the eternal tsukiyomi. I wonder what the soldiers who lost comrades and the families who lost loved ones would think of a line like that. Obito's crimes were way to heinous for that to be permitted, even unintentionally. As a writer, you can't have a character go screaming past the moral event horizon then subsequently have a character behave like you didn't. 

[LuckyChi7]

Now onto Part II of my all explanation, don't worry all of it's gonna make it sense in the end: 

 

 

Sakura Haruno: 

 

Who is she?  She wants to become the best kunoichi 

 

Who does she represent in the story? Naruto's love interest

 

Now I've already discussed why it's described that way from Naruto's viewpoint, so now let's look at why the story strongly points in that favor:

 

 

In Chapter 3 when Naruto had to go to bathroom, the real Sasuke shows up and what does he call her for the way she talks about Naruto about being alone? Annoying.. and what is that Sakura reflects on after that scene?  

 

 

 

This right here is a very subtle hint showing that she's somewhat considerate of him and remember this is chapter 3. 

 

 

Now lets move forward: 

 

 

 

 

This might seem like nothing, but keep note that this part was not in the anime for whatever reason. Look at it this way Sakura has a crush on Sasuke so why is it that She makes Naruto duck instead?  right. 

 

 

Next: 

 

 

 

You got this  during the midst of Naruto's fight against Zabuza. She scolds Naruto for running towards him, but all he wanted to do was get his headband. To which Sakura finds admiring. 

 

Also lets not forget this little moment from the chunin exams: 

 

 

 

 

Why is this important? because it took Naruto to help her break free from Ino's control. Also what does Kakashi further hint with this scene: 

 

 

 

 

Exactly!

 

 

and now a little after the encounter with Gaara: 

 

 

 

 

She believes that Sasuke was the one who saved her, but instead it was Naruto who did whatever it took to protect her, and that causes her to smile, and she thinks about it alone in her room to. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So Sakura decided to go on a date with Naruto not only to tell him about everything that went on during the chunin exams, but smiles upon reflection while showing small blushes in her room.  Again this further hints at changes that are going on with Sakura as a character. 

 

 

 

Now we get to the promise of a lifetime which obviously I've discussed from Naruto's pov, but lets look at it from Sakura's: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Think about where this has gone since the beginning,  this is someone she found annoying and immature, and it is here that she realizes just how important he is to her especially when you look at what happens after the fight: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know what this hints that from Sakura, it's not just going to be for her own sake, but also for Naruto that they'll bring Sasuke back not just to make herself feel better, but also to cheer him up because of how down he feels about the situation. that again I find beautiful in a character. Especially Sakura when you consider her growth in terms of Naruto within Part 1 alone. Especially when you consider the way Sasuke treats her in Part 1.  Sure, it's not as bad as Part 2, but he gets so incredibly rude I mean look there are moments between her and Sasuke. I'm not going to deny that there are, but the further we progress through the series especially Post-Timeskip the worse it gets. Alot may even argue unhealthy.  No girl would make an attempt with getting with a guy whose treated them as weak or in this case crap.. However this is in regards to Sakura's role in Naruto as in Naruto's story. 

 

 

 

 

Part III to my explanation is gonna center around about Naruto and Sakura's character throughout the course of Shippuden, and showcase that it isn't a red herring at all, and just how wrong Kishi is.  That one just like the first one is gonna be up soon as well.  So this where it's gonna stand for now looking at this and first part of my explanation that is. 

Edited by LuckyChi7, 11 August 2017 - 05:05 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

Sasuke shoudl've died, his role in Boruto is way beyond stupid, I understand the part of wanting to find redemption, okay but why couldn't he stayed at the village to protect it.
Now I'm pretty sure some might think, well he got redeemed anyways and he is helping people so it's the same, right? , no, that isn't right, first off like everyone know one main plot point since the end of part 1 was to bring Sasuke home so team 7 could be together again, even at times when we were explicitly told Sasuke couldn't be saved, our protag was like "No, one day team 7 will laugh together again".
Futhermore there is no reason why he can't stay on the village and protect it just like his brother did and no, the argument Sasuke wouldn't want to stay on the village that he brother died to protect and the villagers will never accepted(well appearntly they are ok with Orochimaru so), also Sasuke never gave a damn to what others think of him and that's something that stayed true to his character, at least.

Sasuke is a can of worms character cause he makes no sense after Itachi died.
Sasuke was just a ripoff of piccolo from the saiyan saga only lamer cause piccolo and Gohan had how many episode for us to buy their relationship where as bolt was barley have what 10 -20 minutes of the two training together, hell sasuke barley taught him anything.
Agreed that the last basically highlander 2'd us with ruining the lore of series, like how Highlander said they were from other planet?
That and Naruto refuses to have anything change hurt him alot, since Ya I believe Sakura would have moved on from sasuke a lot going time ago, I'm surprised she hasn't left him since he's never around, now she's wasting her life alone and debt.
Seems like Sakura can't have anything anymore, everything has to go to hinata for no reason, what happened to this series it use to be good and fun now it's just sad, pathetic and bad.

[VanitasDS76491]

And if Sasuke "must" be away from Konoha while finding "redemption" - show us what he's doing to find that "redemption". You can't just say "redemption" and expect everyone to instantly think he's like Kenshin Himura in Rurouni Kenshin. Not only are we consistently told about Kenshin wanting to redeem himself for his actions in the past, but we're also consistently shown his attempts at redemption through the series itself with his use of the reverse blade sword, his keeping of his vow to never kill again, and also the internal struggle to not break that vow with the possibility of reverting back to his Hitokiri Battousai self, especially when facing ruthless adversaries who were still like they were back then or wished to bring back those days - Jinei Udoh, Hajime Saito,Makoto Shishio, etc.

Or again like I keep saying Riku's redemption was done better than sasuke's nonexistent redemption, chain of memories, 358/2days, ii and dream drop all showed his character growth and it was done so much better.

[The Doctor forever]

You misunderstand both my objections.

 

On Sakura, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean she should give a speech about that subject. My objection to that scene it is same song, same verse as the end of Part 1. I don't think you can do that here because those events in Part 1 were what spurred her to improve herself. She vowed to stand with them. Whether she explicitly says it or not, that its used as motivation implies that they were viewed as a weakness. As I said before, what is the point of everything she did if, when confronted with the same scenario, she's on her knee's sobbing and begging him to stay? It's passable if the only point of the scene is simply to affirm to the audience that she stills loves him and to demonstrate its depth. But it's difficult to believe that a guy who relied on parallel's as much as Kishimoto wasn't paralleling the end of Part 1 or, at the very least, was oblivious to the connection.

 

I only through the stand up for herself part it as a spit ball idea if the series was hellbent on doing an SS scene there. That if she did show spine rather than blubber, Sasuke might respect that. At the very least, she should have delivered her plea in a manner that didn't make her look weak and ineffective. It didn't help that even in the final "group" fight she was left on the side with the exception of a token gesture. I don't think crying, begging, and getting Tsukiyomi'd onto the sidelined is what I expected to happen to her at the end of her character journey. How is that different from Sasuke KO'ing her and then leaving the village?

 

I also threw that line in to emphasize that dislike of that scene isn't rooted in butthurt over the pairings. I didn't like the end pairings and I have issues with what was done, but by then they were a low priority for me. One of the reasons I'm steering clear of the pairing debate going on in this thread is because I don't really care. I'd have hated the ending even if it went NS.

 

As for Naurto, I never said he was referring to his dark traits and that's not my objection. My objection is that it deliberately glosses over those traits. When speaking to Pain, Naruto told him he could not forgive him, but spared him anyway. This looks human and at least subtely acknowledges what Pain had done. Naruto took offense to Zetsu mocking Obito's sacrifice. I better and less offensive approach would have been to acknowledge his crimes, but at least commend him for doing the right thing in the end.

 

Granted I'd have still been unhappy, but I wouldn't see it as the manga's lowest point. I cannot overlook the fact that occurs at the end of series of events where the series repeatedly failed to hold people accountable. The two biggest issues are the lack of accountability and the utter failure to challenge Naruto's philosophy in the area where it was weakest. Pain, Itachi, and Obito were effectively allowed to die on their own terms. Sasuke was let off because he helped beat Pain (let's ignore that his motivation was totally self-serving which doesn't neatly line up with the concept of redemption),. Kabuto and Orochimaru were also let off. Kabuto was scene running an orphanage. Did all the characters seemingly forget that he used his Edo Army to aid Obito and completely forget how the Edo army was made? He's either a mass serial killer or a mass grave robber (or both) (and don't get me started on Izanami). Orichimaru...the last time he escaped accountability he lead a full scale invasion of Konoha. It was an enormous blunder by the Third that cost lives. Amazingly, this never happened to Naruto and no one who you expect to complain about such things is ever around. We almost got their with Pain, but then Gedo Mazo happened and its all got tossed.

 

The next time we see Obito its with Rin and in kid form. The message really seemed to be that his actions absolved him of his sins. The only objection came in the form of mooks who cheered on Kakashi when he went to kill Obito, only to be absent when he doesn't follow through.

 

With all this as its backdrop, it's hard believe that Naruto's line wasn't a deliberate overlooking of Obito's sins. Even if that wasn't his intent, that doesn't change anything. It just makes Naruto (and Kishimoto) look totally tin eared. At least the alliance was trapped in the eternal tsukiyomi. I wonder what the soldiers who lost comrades and the families who lost loved ones would think of a line like that. Obito's crimes were way to heinous for that to be permitted, even unintentionally. As a writer, you can't have a character go screaming past the moral event horizon then subsequently have a character behave like you didn't. 

I agree with you Nate this just goes to show you how bad a writer Kishi is and how much he loves the Uchiha over writers would never have done the BS that Kishi had done in the manga, what I do hate a lot is the BS that people use when they say oh Sasuke was in the darkness and needed to be saved.

 

Thing is Sasuke didn't want that help I mean he was not like.

 

Bucky from Winter Soldier who had been brainwashed by Hydra to do what they wanted so all the bad that he did he can't be blamed as he was not in the right stae of mind he was just a puppet, however Bucky still feels bad for all that he did I mean we have all seen Captain America Civil War at the then Hydra had control of his mind.

 

Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker: is the same Anakindies in the end with Luke wanting to save his father and what did Anakin say in his last moments before he died. "You already have son you already have. Tell your sister you were right about me." Then he dies and is a peace.

 

Plus there is many, many more that handle this better as well then Naruto far better than Naruto who think we can just all hold hands and sing our troubles away.

 

However Nate we do have far better stories that know how to do growth I still love MGS and Gundam Seed even thou I hate that they killed Flay off she did bad yes but she was a 15 year old girl and people give her hate for being a racist which is bad but as many have said people grow and change for the better.

[Yyubie]

I like to place this link here :)

https://churchm.ag/fanboy/

[AHK]

Sasuke didn't kill anyone, though. The guy was in darkness, did bad things, and is paying the price. Was jailed for a time, and is now going on a redemption journey. He -does- feel bad. He acknowledges what he did is bad. I think this is very often forgotten. A villain does not -have- to die for writing to be sufficient or a plot end to be closed. The issue and possibility of death was addressed and Naruto chose and requested Sasuke not to do so.
 
Most of the first is just bashing, needless comparison between Sakura and Hinata, and implications she is spoiled, when that just...makes no sense.

Wasn't going to jump in on this, I've disagreed on most of what you've said in defense of the story, this might be the most egregious though. First of all, yes, Sasuke has killed multiple people. He slaughtered samurai and cloud ninja on his way to capturing Bee.

Not only that, but Sasuke is in part responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of ninja in the war. Furthermore, he plotted to murder the standing powers that be, and anyone who disagreed with him, while enslaving the rest of the world.

That he "felt bad" and was "jailed for a time" is an absolutely pathetic excuse for Sasuke's lack of actual punishment. Given his crimes, the fact that he wasn't killed is a crime itself.