54175 replies to this topic

[DrK]

Ya that sounds right they'd use any kitten to keep her alive even if she has a 10 ft wood rod going through her. I mean kitten is what kept sasuke alive through impossible odds that should have killed him.

Her will to live was insurmountable because she had yet to have Naruto's wood rod go through her. After that happens, she's going to be just as vulnerable as any other person, such as the dearly departed Neji.

Edited by DrK, 18 February 2018 - 01:51 PM.

[Phantom_999]

The best justification I've seen about this was "Neiji willingly gave his life to protect Hinata rather than being forced to do so He chose to die for her. He chose his fate, that's how he didn't give in to destiny." But at this point the series began going on about continuing the traditions of the past, which combined with the Hyuuga clan (which gets swept under the rug so Hinata doesn't look like an uncaring dumbass for not trying to fix it) (good smegging luck) leads to a pretty bad taste in the mouth.

How is that even a good justification at all? In the Chunin Exams arc where Neji is introduced, there is backstory. In this backstory, the role of the branch family is explained. It states: The role of the branch family is to protect the main family. How did Neji die? Protecting the main family. Which is exactly how his father died, and the thing you said is exactly the excuse his father used. If you do the exact same damn thing your father did, you couldn't be following your destiny more if you were kittening tied to it with a rope!
 
That. Is. Not. Even. A. Defense. At. All.
 
I don't care how many people say it.

 
Exactly. Even if there IS a difference between doing it by choice and doing it because you feel that you DON'T have a choice, it still means the same thing in the end. But again, the worst part is not that Neji did not escape his fate like he wanted or that he ended up playing the role that his part of the family was ALWAYS meant to play, but that Hinata did not DO A DAMN THING ABOUT IT, even after that happened. She was still the swooning fangirl that wanted "N-Naruto-kun!!!" between her legs as she always was. she apparently did not feel guilty enough to change the system that had her cousin and uncle die like slaves

Edited by Phantom_999, 18 February 2018 - 02:18 PM.

[DrK]

She was still the swooning fangirl that wanted "N-Naruto-kun!!!" between her legs as she always was.

Well, she got that. And it only cost us Naruto's nindo being ruined, Sakura's life being ruined, Sasuke's character losing all conviction, Itachi losing all his honor for enabling the aforementioned, ditto for Neji, as well as Neji's life being lost, Tsunade has to live with the fact that her legacy of medical techniques now belongs to her family's mortal enemies, Karin has to be alone and miserable, Kiba is doing the same, Naruto's mother has to be extremely disappointed, everyone in the afterworld has to be disappointed that the new generation failed to change anything, children are being experimented on by Orochimaru...

 

And kittening so on. It was a great trade.

Edited by DrK, 18 February 2018 - 02:28 PM.

[Phantom_999]

INDEED IT WAS!!!!   NOT

[jak123]

Well, she got that. And it only cost us Naruto's nindo being ruined, Sakura's life being ruined, Sasuke's character losing all conviction, Itachi losing all his honor for enabling the aforementioned, ditto for Neji, as well as Neji's life being lost, Tsunade has to live with the fact that her legacy of medical techniques now belongs to her family's mortal enemies, Karin has to be alone and miserable, Kiba is doing the same, Naruto's mother has to be extremely disappointed, everyone in the afterworld has to be disappointed that the new generation failed to change anything, children are being experimented on by Orochimaru...

 

And kittening so on. It was a great trade.

You know, the more and more I read these comments, the more I realize how utterly terrible the ending of Naruto is.

[Phantom_999]

Yes and not just what was WRITTEN but also all the implications it brings  

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yes and not just what was WRITTEN but also all the implications it brings  

 

And how the story was destroyed. Don't forget how the story overall was destroyed, Phantom.

[RulesofNature]

How is that even a good justification at all? In the Chunin Exams arc where Neji is introduced, there is backstory. In this backstory, the role of the branch family is explained. It states: The role of the branch family is to protect the main family. How did Neji die? Protecting the main family. Which is exactly how his father died, and the thing you said is exactly the excuse his father used. If you do the exact same damn thing your father did, you couldn't be following your destiny more if you were kittening tied to it with a rope!

 

That. Is. Not. Even. A. Defense. At. All.

 

I don't care how many people say it.

 

It's a pro-Ender argument and as I said it leaves a bad taste. The whole ending and sequel revolve around the idea of continuing on a very destructive system, with Boruto wanting to become Konoha's black ops. Naruto failed to fix the system, and these kinds of arguments only serve to show how far the story has fallen.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

It's a pro-Ender argument and as I said it leaves a bad taste. The whole ending and sequel revolve around the idea of continuing on a very destructive system, with Boruto wanting to become Konoha's black ops. Naruto failed to fix the system, and these kinds of arguments only serve to show how far the story has fallen.

 

It also is a crappy argument because they fail to address all the mistakes that the series kept piling on. Story-wise, I always assumed Kakashi and Shikamaru, given in spite of all they suffered and lost from the ninja system, had influenced Naruto in some cases to not change it when he had hoped to change it after all the things he saw in it. Which is why I would have preferred if The Last did something more than a love story that was forced to try to make NH make sense when it never did that it involved people horribly wronged by the ninja world like how Nagato/Pain was, but they set out to destroy everything and remake the world to be "perfect", only for all the characters to realize their mistakes, and that it wasn't too late to learn from them and make sure that they learn from them continuously, since no world is perfect, but the current canon of Naruto is abysmal in the end.

[VanitasDS76491]

It also is a crappy argument because they fail to address all the mistakes that the series kept piling on. Story-wise, I always assumed Kakashi and Shikamaru, given in spite of all they suffered and lost from the ninja system, had influenced Naruto in some cases to not change it when he had hoped to change it after all the things he saw in it. Which is why I would have preferred if The Last did something more than a love story that was forced to try to make NH make sense when it never did that it involved people horribly wronged by the ninja world like how Nagato/Pain was, but they set out to destroy everything and remake the world to be "perfect", only for all the characters to realize their mistakes, and that it wasn't too late to learn from them and make sure that they learn from them continuously, since no world is perfect, but the current canon of Naruto is abysmal in the end.

Naruto needs a villain like vulture from spiderman homecoming or killomorger from black panther.

[VanitasDS76491]

Her will to live was insurmountable because she had yet to have Naruto's wood rod go through her. After that happens, she's going to be just as vulnerable as any other person, such as the dearly departed Neji.

True she could be missing limbs but til she gets naruto's d she won't die.

[James S Cassidy]

In the anime they make it so that Nagato cough blood and make Pein lost consciousness for few second so that Hinata can land one blow on him. The fight also longer .... in the manga she charge at Pein and Pein hit her once and she instantly got owned on the floor , but in the anime she charged at Pein but Pein dodge and she got hit couple of time but still able to keep fighting , in the manga she fight Pein in one page but in the anime she fight Pein for a few minutes. Bottom line is in this moment when you compare the manga and the anime you could see the ABSURDLY AMOUT OF BIAS SP put into Hinata to make it even more dramatic.

You don't even have to look that far into the episode either to notice the bias. Not that you want to, but compare the Hinata's confession episode to the episode right after it. One minute everything is highly detailed and realistc and then the next it becomes Looney Toons. No, Looney Tunes has better animation.


 

 

Hinata would become the Aerith of ff7 that way. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing (until you have a run in with some crazy fan who thinks Aerith is living inside Cloud's head forever.) The core aspect of Aerith's character was the tragedy of her life being cut short, and all the "could-have-beens" ending there and then. Although I would argue that what I hate most about Hinata is her constant willingness to freaking die. Its like every-time she gets the opportunity she actively TRIES to get herself killed. It bothers me.

Oh god, don't remind me.  I was once dating a girl who was a huge Cloud and Aerith fan and I was a Cloud and Tifa fan.

Now they started saying how Cloud and Tifa are the worst scum ever because all they do is bash Aerith and stuff. Okay, whatever. One day I got into a discussion with them and they were talking about the ending and what not. I said "How is Aerith and Cloud going to work when she is dead? I mean, I can tell Cloud could have had a thing for her, but eventually he could move on to Tifa and we know Tifa had a crush on Cloud. So, why not both? Plus, Aerith can be with her other first love Zack."

OMG, you would think I have started world war 9. They started bashing me, telling me I am trolling, and accusing me of "causing trouble." ( So much for the the Cloti fans being more toxic.) I didn't say Cloud and Aerith was stupid or anything, but rather that it is hard for them to have a relationship when she is dead. Heck, I have my own dead love too and told them about the story and how she told me to find someone to make her as happy as I did her. They didn't like that. She were ranting even more.

I was trying to be mature and showed them the Highwinds scene and an article pratically confirming Cloud and Tifa's relationship as canon which was pushed by one of the directors of FFVII and they just flipped their lid like how dare I bring up such things. My girl, at the time, called me the biggest jerk and told me that I am a scumbag for not understanding. I didn't bash Aerith either, I jsut said that even Aerith herself said that Cloud needs to stop blaming himself for her death and live his life.

They also said that, and I am not joking, that Cloud will forever stay alone because Aerith was his one and only true love and anyone else is pointless. Also, Aerith could come back to life if she wanted to, but she chooses not to because they would need to sacrifice a person like Sephiroth did.

I have to say, the Cloud and Aerith rabid fanbase is just as bad as the rabid NH fanbase.

[jak123]

You don't even have to look that far into the episode either to notice the bias. Not that you want to, but compare the Hinata's confession episode to the episode right after it. One minute everything is highly detailed and realistc and then the next it becomes Looney Toons. No, Looney Tunes has better animation.


 

 

Oh god, don't remind me.  I was once dating a girl who was a huge Cloud and Aerith fan and I was a Cloud and Tifa fan.

Now they started saying how Cloud and Tifa are the worst scum ever because all they do is bash Aerith and stuff. Okay, whatever. One day I got into a discussion with them and they were talking about the ending and what not. I said "How is Aerith and Cloud going to work when she is dead? I mean, I can tell Cloud could have had a thing for her, but eventually he could move on to Tifa and we know Tifa had a crush on Cloud. So, why not both? Plus, Aerith can be with her other first love Zack."

OMG, you would think I have started world war 9. They started bashing me, telling me I am trolling, and accusing me of "causing trouble." ( So much for the the Cloti fans being more toxic.) I didn't say Cloud and Aerith was stupid or anything, but rather that it is hard for them to have a relationship when she is dead. Heck, I have my own dead love too and told them about the story and how she told me to find someone to make her as happy as I did her. They didn't like that. She were ranting even more.

I was trying to be mature and showed them the Highwinds scene and an article pratically confirming Cloud and Tifa's relationship as canon which was pushed by one of the directors of FFVII and they just flipped their lid like how dare I bring up such things. My girl, at the time, called me the biggest jerk and told me that I am a scumbag for not understanding. I didn't bash Aerith either, I jsut said that even Aerith herself said that Cloud needs to stop blaming himself for her death and live his life.

They also said that, and I am not joking, that Cloud will forever stay alone because Aerith was his one and only true love and anyone else is pointless. Also, Aerith could come back to life if she wanted to, but she chooses not to because they would need to sacrifice a person like Sephiroth did.

I have to say, the Cloud and Aerith rabid fanbase is just as bad as the rabid NH fanbase.

Yeah it always seemed to me that Aerith had feelings for both. Yeah, you could say that her feelings started for Cloud because he was like Zack, but then they evolved. She probably would have ended up with Cloud if she hadn't died. 

[Kagomaru]

Yeah it always seemed to me that Aerith had feelings for both. Yeah, you could say that her feelings started for Cloud because he was like Zack, but then they evolved. She probably would have ended up with Cloud if she hadn't died. 

I've always maintained the perspective that she seemed to take a more maternal role with Cloud throughout most of the game based on her attitude towards him(somewhat like an older sister) and that her hints of attraction toward him stemmed mostly from his resemblance (physical and psychological)to Zack.  

 

As for Aerith resurrecting, that is BS.  That trait was unique to Sephiroth because he wasn't fully distilled into Lifestream due in part of his enormous will and the corrupt, alien nature of his Jenova cells. 

Edited by Kagomaru, 18 February 2018 - 11:45 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

You don't even have to look that far into the episode either to notice the bias. Not that you want to, but compare the Hinata's confession episode to the episode right after it. One minute everything is highly detailed and realistc and then the next it becomes Looney Toons. No, Looney Tunes has better animation.

 
 


Oh god, don't remind me.  I was once dating a girl who was a huge Cloud and Aerith fan and I was a Cloud and Tifa fan.
Now they started saying how Cloud and Tifa are the worst scum ever because all they do is bash Aerith and stuff. Okay, whatever. One day I got into a discussion with them and they were talking about the ending and what not. I said "How is Aerith and Cloud going to work when she is dead? I mean, I can tell Cloud could have had a thing for her, but eventually he could move on to Tifa and we know Tifa had a crush on Cloud. So, why not both? Plus, Aerith can be with her other first love Zack."
OMG, you would think I have started world war 9. They started bashing me, telling me I am trolling, and accusing me of "causing trouble." ( So much for the the Cloti fans being more toxic.) I didn't say Cloud and Aerith was stupid or anything, but rather that it is hard for them to have a relationship when she is dead. Heck, I have my own dead love too and told them about the story and how she told me to find someone to make her as happy as I did her. They didn't like that. She were ranting even more.
I was trying to be mature and showed them the Highwinds scene and an article pratically confirming Cloud and Tifa's relationship as canon which was pushed by one of the directors of FFVII and they just flipped their lid like how dare I bring up such things. My girl, at the time, called me the biggest jerk and told me that I am a scumbag for not understanding. I didn't bash Aerith either, I jsut said that even Aerith herself said that Cloud needs to stop blaming himself for her death and live his life.
They also said that, and I am not joking, that Cloud will forever stay alone because Aerith was his one and only true love and anyone else is pointless. Also, Aerith could come back to life if she wanted to, but she chooses not to because they would need to sacrifice a person like Sephiroth did.
I have to say, the Cloud and Aerith rabid fanbase is just as bad as the rabid NH fanbase.

Wow just wow dude I have no words but really. Did these people not play crisis core and watch advent children cause ya those support zack x aerith and cloud x tifa. You don't see people rage debating other final fantasy couple like Cecil and Rosa like she should been with kain or Locke and celes saying Locke should be with Terra, or Zidane x garnet, or ashe and basch and balither. You don't see them getting debate on. It seems no fandom is safe god a wonder what the power rangers fandom is like? Also correct me if I'm wrong but didn't cloud think he was zack thanks to his mako poisoning and a mental break down, plus was that even established that aerith could come back cause no one in final fantasy who died came back so I don't see how aerith could come back unless cetra can do that.

Edited by VanitasDS76491, 18 February 2018 - 11:44 PM.

[Kagomaru]

Wow just wow dude I have no words but really. Did these people not play crisis core and watch advent children cause ya those support zack x aerith and cloud x tifa. You don't see people rage debating other final fantasy couple like Cecil and Rosa like she should been with kain or Locke and celes saying Locke should be with Terra, or Zidane x garnet, or ashe and basch and balither. You don't see them getting debate on. It seems no fandom is safe god a wonder what the power rangers fandom is like? Also correct me if I'm wrong but didn't cloud think he was zack thanks to his mako poisoning and a mental break down, plus was that even established that aerith could come back cause no one in final fantasy who died came back so I don't see how aerith could come back unless cetra can do that.

Clerith fans have admittedly calmed down over the years, especially by the time the Compilation novel translations and Ultimania information became widespread.   At their peak, they could be intensely volatile and confrontational when it came to Clerith(deluded too, because that claim that Aerith could revive as long as she had a host is baseless fancruft), but I don't think they've reached the degree of vitriol that you see from NaruHina fanboys/girls.

 

 

Now Klance (from Voltron) and Olicity(from Arrow), OTOH, are on the same collective page of lunacy as NaruHina: from frequently harassing other factions of the fanbase for supporting other ships, to threatening the writers, producers and actors on social media.

Edited by Kagomaru, 19 February 2018 - 01:12 AM.

[DrK]

Yeah Cloud and Aerith is as dead as she is.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I've always maintained the perspective that she seemed to take a more maternal role with Cloud throughout most of the game based on her attitude towards him(somewhat like an older sister) and that her hints of attraction toward him stemmed mostly from his resemblance (physical and psychological)to Zack.  

 

As for Aerith resurrecting, that is BS.  That trait was unique to Sephiroth because he wasn't fully distilled into Lifestream due in part of his enormous will and the corrupt, alien nature of his Jenova cells. 

 

Also, I can imagine even as rabid as Cloud x Aerith fans are, that they also forget that as kind hearted as Aerith was, she'd want Cloud to be happy, with or without her.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

You don't even have to look that far into the episode either to notice the bias. Not that you want to, but compare the Hinata's confession episode to the episode right after it. One minute everything is highly detailed and realistc and then the next it becomes Looney Toons. No, Looney Tunes has better animation.


 

 

Oh god, don't remind me.  I was once dating a girl who was a huge Cloud and Aerith fan and I was a Cloud and Tifa fan.

Now they started saying how Cloud and Tifa are the worst scum ever because all they do is bash Aerith and stuff. Okay, whatever. One day I got into a discussion with them and they were talking about the ending and what not. I said "How is Aerith and Cloud going to work when she is dead? I mean, I can tell Cloud could have had a thing for her, but eventually he could move on to Tifa and we know Tifa had a crush on Cloud. So, why not both? Plus, Aerith can be with her other first love Zack."

OMG, you would think I have started world war 9. They started bashing me, telling me I am trolling, and accusing me of "causing trouble." ( So much for the the Cloti fans being more toxic.) I didn't say Cloud and Aerith was stupid or anything, but rather that it is hard for them to have a relationship when she is dead. Heck, I have my own dead love too and told them about the story and how she told me to find someone to make her as happy as I did her. They didn't like that. She were ranting even more.

I was trying to be mature and showed them the Highwinds scene and an article pratically confirming Cloud and Tifa's relationship as canon which was pushed by one of the directors of FFVII and they just flipped their lid like how dare I bring up such things. My girl, at the time, called me the biggest jerk and told me that I am a scumbag for not understanding. I didn't bash Aerith either, I jsut said that even Aerith herself said that Cloud needs to stop blaming himself for her death and live his life.

They also said that, and I am not joking, that Cloud will forever stay alone because Aerith was his one and only true love and anyone else is pointless. Also, Aerith could come back to life if she wanted to, but she chooses not to because they would need to sacrifice a person like Sephiroth did.

I have to say, the Cloud and Aerith rabid fanbase is just as bad as the rabid NH fanbase.

Lool Just look at some of the evidence they used to use to Support Clerith before the final nail in the coffin came out. "Clouds living in her church." Yes...after he left Tifa and the Kids because he felt "Guilty" for being happy and for failing to find a cure. "Cloud wants to meet her in the lifestream." Yes, to which Tifa responds. "We'll go together." as in when everyone dies they all go to the same place--the Life stream. And he agrees with her that "They'll go to meet Aerith together."  so if both Tifa and Cloud want to meet Aerith it must mean they're both in love with her!! "cloud's wearing her ribbon!" Except everyone was.

The real issue with Clerith isn't that Cloud couldn't or didn't have feelings for her but A. She was tragically killed. B. She never knew the real Cloud, and admits as much herself. B. Tifa was Real! unmindkittened Cloud's childhood love. Its not to say that Clerith couldn't have happened but there were some huuuge hurdles for it.
 

 

I've always maintained the perspective that she seemed to take a more maternal role with Cloud throughout most of the game based on her attitude towards him(somewhat like an older sister) and that her hints of attraction toward him stemmed mostly from his resemblance (physical and psychological)to Zack.  

 

As for Aerith resurrecting, that is BS.  That trait was unique to Sephiroth because he wasn't fully distilled into Lifestream due in part of his enormous will and the corrupt, alien nature of his Jenova cells. 

By her nature Aerith is naturally Flirty...but Cloud DOES refer to her as "Mother" in Advent Children complete...much to her annoyance. But i do agree most of her interest was from the Zack aspect of Cloud she picked up on. that however is something up to personal interpretation, as much as what would have happened between them if she'd lived. 

The fact of the matter is that the people who thought Aerith was going to be with Cloud in spirit form forever and that they were cavorting inside her dilapidated Church where he was living like a sad Hobo weren't paying attention. Everyone--even Sephiroth, who enters the life-stream eventually looses their consciousness and becomes a collective entity. 

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 19 February 2018 - 02:10 AM.

[Kagomaru]

Lool Just look at some of the evidence they used to use to Support Clerith before the final nail in the coffin came out. "Clouds living in her church." Yes...after he left Tifa and the Kids because he felt "Guilty" for being happy and for failing to find a cure. "Cloud wants to meet her in the lifestream." Yes, to which Tifa responds. "We'll go together." as in when everyone dies they all go to the same place--the Life stream. And he agrees with her that "They'll go to meet Aerith together."  so if both Tifa and Cloud want to meet Aerith it must mean they're both in love with her!! "cloud's wearing her ribbon!" Except everyone was.

The real issue with Clerith isn't that Cloud couldn't or didn't have feelings for her but A. She was tragically killed. B. She never knew the real Cloud, and admits as much herself. B. Tifa was Real! unmindkittened Cloud's childhood love. Its not to say that Clerith couldn't have happened but there were some huuuge hurdles for it.
 

 

By her nature Aerith is naturally Flirty...but Cloud DOES refer to her as "Mother" in Advent Children complete...much to her annoyance. But i do agree most of her interest was from the Zack aspect of Cloud she picked up on. that however is something up to personal interpretation, as much as what would have happened between them if she'd lived. 

The fact of the matter is that the people who thought Aerith was going to be with Cloud in spirit form forever and that they were cavorting inside her dilapidated Church where he was living like a sad Hobo weren't paying attention. Everyone--even Sephiroth, who enters the life-stream eventually looses their consciousness and becomes a collective entity. 

They also conveniently forget that Cloud's remorse was compounded by the deaths of Aerith *and* Zack, not just Aerith alone. And his depression and survivor's guilt didn't begin to exacerbate until Denzel as well as himself contracted Geostigma. 

 

 

Also, I can imagine even as rabid as Cloud x Aerith fans are, that they also forget that as kind hearted as Aerith was, she'd want Cloud to be happy, with or without her.

The more irrational fans also tend to disregard the fact that she's found her own happiness by being reunited with Zack and despite what they want to think, they still retain their love for one another.  Unless they think that Aerith would dump Zack for Cloud or, even more hilariously, form a threesome lol.