549 replies to this topic

[BlackBird19]

This is just a simple rant about what truly disappointed me about the last third of the original manga, including the ending. Just a realization I had to get off my chest.

 

I started the manga because it began as an apparent hero's tale. It started off as the story of a boy who refused to accept his place in the world, and refused to accept the world as it is. That what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. This is made abundantly clear in the Land of Waves arc.

 

However due to the popularity of certain characters the story started to evolve from that hero's tale to one of acceptance and settling. Naruto started off showing our hero to be someone who endured all that life threw at him, but still standing ready to fight back no matter what. Refusing to accept fate, the evils of the shinobi world or giving up on the girl he loved no matter how often he got rejected. His story was supposed to be about how he becomes a great man who makes the world a better place by continuously fighting for it. But that just never came to fruition.

 

Instead we were left with a protagonist who accepts things as they are more often than not. He accepts fate and becomes the child of prophecy. He accepts the evils that men do so long as they say they're sorry and have a sob story in their background. And he settles for some other girl that he doesn't really have a strong bond with just because he was shown memories of her loving him, usually from afar. But most infuriating, he becomes Hokage and that's it. He rests on his laurels and only concentrates on expanding his village and continuing the ninja line as it has always been. He's never shown initiating any real change in the world.

 

This was all done so the most popular characters (both author's personal favorites and fans')  are able to achieve their acceptance in the story. Most importantly Sasuke's redemption without consequences and Hinata getting the guy she's always wanted. Which then allows for the franchise to get milked by creating a next generation.

 

This is what bothered me more than any other thing about the manga. In the end the moral of the story we were left with is to just accept it.  And that moral seems to be continuing in everything that's been released since the original story's end.

Edited by BlackBird19, 31 December 2015 - 11:17 AM.

[MagicalNgro]

I agree, for all his potential and all the things he has achieved and all the hearts and lives he's touched and changed growing up,he becomes just another kage at the end, how disappointing.

For all that development to go out the window just so they can fulfill the wishes of 2 characters they barely even been around most of shippuden. And then some movie retcons their bond away to insult to injury, woooow

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I agree, for all his potential and all the things he has achieved and all the hearts and lives he's touched and changed growing up,he becomes just another kage at the end, how disappointing.

For all that development to go out the window just so they can fulfill the wishes of 2 characters they barely even been around most of shippuden. And then some movie retcons their bond away to insult to injury, woooow

 

And pretty much destroy the hero and heroine (Or rather, the TRUE hero and heroine w/ Naruto and Sakura), but might as well say the series now should be called "Sasuke" or "Sasuke and Hinata".

[tricksie]

I started the manga because it began as an apparent hero's tale. It started off as the story of a boy who refused to accept his place in the world, and refused to accept the world as it is. That what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. This is made abundantly clear in the Land of Waves arc.

 

However due to the popularity of certain characters the story started to evolve from that hero's tale to one of acceptance and settling. Naruto started off showing our hero to be someone who endured all that life threw at him, but still standing ready to fight back no matter what. Refusing to accept fate, the evils of the shinobi world or giving up on the girl he loved no matter how often he got rejected. His story was supposed to be about how he becomes a great man who makes the world a better place by continuously fighting for it. But that just never came to fruition.

 

Instead we were left with a protagonist who accepts things as they are more often than not. He accepts fate and becomes the child of prophecy. He accepts the evils that men do so long as they say they're sorry and have a sob story in their background. And he settles for some other girl that he doesn't really have a strong bond with just because he was shown memories of her loving him, usually from afar. But most infuriating, he becomes Hokage and that's it. He rests on his laurels and only concentrates on expanding his village and continuing the ninja line as it has always been. He's never shown initiating any real change in the world.

 

This was all done so the most popular characters (both author's personal favorites and fans')  are able to achieve their acceptance in the story. Most importantly Sasuke's redemption without consequences and Hinata getting the guy she's always wanted. Which then allows for the franchise to get milked by creating a next generation.

 

This is what bothered me more than any other thing about the manga. In the end the moral of the story we were left with is to just accept it.  And that moral seems to be continuing in everything that's been released since the original story's end.

To me, the story ended after the Pain arc. Up until that point the story of Naruto was cohesive, had goals and was steadily checking those off in the typical 'hero's journey' way. He had defeated the Big Bad (Pain), been acknowledged by the village and his main love interest, and now all he had to save Sasuke.

 

Again, plugging into the hero's journey formula, this would have been a task the Naruto and Naruto alone had to do. So the final lost arc of this story of Naruto would have been a second "Save Sasuke Arc," taken on by Naruto alone. And that struggle/battle/resolution would have mirrored the end of the Part 1, with the 'Save Sasuke Arc' where the all the rookies battled to save him.

 

(And keeping with the hero's journey formula, Naruto would succeed where the whole group failed because he alone had the mystical 'child of prophecy' power needed to save Sasuke, which would of course be revealed in the final struggle when it kicked into gear to save Naruto and change Sasuke's heart at the last minute.)

 

In the lost arc, the last overarching plot point of saving Sasuke would have been resolved. Then the story would have been finished, all goals met.

 

But unfortunately, they opted to drag the series out for 5+ more years, making bags of money, and unraveled the entire story. While I don't like Sasuke or Hinata, I don't think the story was continued just for those characters. (Although it might have been a secondary goal for some staff members). I think the people over Kishimoto's head offered him a deal he couldn't refuse: extending his contract and dragging out the story.

 

After that, for me, there is just simply no more story. EVERYTHING is filler arc after filler arc, waiting until the end. There is no more plot. Only needless battles and rivalry, punctuated by Sasuke looking cool and Hinata being sappy. Naruto, as a story, simply ceases to exist.

 

And it's crazy because I can't even argue plot points or where things went wrong. There was no effort made to continue anything even remotely like a plot for Naruto. I suppose there was some effort made with Sasuke and the Uchiha characters and backgrounds, but even those are largely unresolved. But it's not like we're looking comparing a 'Naruto' half of the story with a 'Sasuke' half. Most of the Uchiha moments turned out to be mostly filler as well, leading to the last battle with Naruto and Sasuke feeling just tacked on at the end. 

 

My takeaway from the manga, looking back on it after time has passed, is that there was a clear, cohesive, enjoyable story through the Pain Arc. And then it stopped. And the fragmented mess of Part 2 doesn't even resemble a story. Just weekly installments that we were led to believe were going somewhere. But in the end, the only place it went was to lead us farther and farther away from what the original story was about.

 

I guessed they hoped they could capture the fans in a never-ending loop of loosely resolved stories featuring less and less compelling characters. Well, I don't think that strategy is working out too well for them. For me, the story ended with the Pain arc. The rest is just a money grab.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

To me, the story ended after the Pain arc. Up until that point the story of Naruto was cohesive, had goals and was steadily checking those off in the typical 'hero's journey' way. He had defeated the Big Bad (Pain), been acknowledged by the village and his main love interest, and now all he had to save Sasuke.

 

Again, plugging into the hero's journey formula, this would have been a task the Naruto and Naruto alone had to do. So the final lost arc of this story of Naruto would have been a second "Save Sasuke Arc," taken on by Naruto alone. And that struggle/battle/resolution would have mirrored the end of the Part 1, with the 'Save Sasuke Arc' where the all the rookies battled to save him.

 

(And keeping with the hero's journey formula, Naruto would succeed where the whole group failed because he alone had the mystical 'child of prophecy' power needed to save Sasuke, which would of course be revealed in the final struggle when it kicked into gear to save Naruto and change Sasuke's heart at the last minute.)

 

In the lost arc, the last overarching plot point of saving Sasuke would have been resolved. Then the story would have been finished, all goals met.

 

But unfortunately, they opted to drag the series out for 5+ more years, making bags of money, and unraveled the entire story. While I don't like Sasuke or Hinata, I don't think the story was continued just for those characters. (Although it might have been a secondary goal for some staff members). I think the people over Kishimoto's head offered him a deal he couldn't refuse: extending his contract and dragging out the story.

 

After that, for me, there is just simply no more story. EVERYTHING is filler arc after filler arc, waiting until the end. There is no more plot. Only needless battles and rivalry, punctuated by Sasuke looking cool and Hinata being sappy. Naruto, as a story, simply ceases to exist.

 

And it's crazy because I can't even argue plot points or where things went wrong. There was no effort made to continue anything even remotely like a plot for Naruto. I suppose there was some effort made with Sasuke and the Uchiha characters and backgrounds, but even those are largely unresolved. But it's not like we're looking comparing a 'Naruto' half of the story with a 'Sasuke' half. Most of the Uchiha moments turned out to be mostly filler as well, leading to the last battle with Naruto and Sasuke feeling just tacked on at the end. 

 

My takeaway from the manga, looking back on it after time has passed, is that there was a clear, cohesive, enjoyable story through the Pain Arc. And then it stopped. And the fragmented mess of Part 2 doesn't even resemble a story. Just weekly installments that we were led to believe were going somewhere. But in the end, the only place it went was to lead us farther and farther away from what the original story was about.

 

I guessed they hoped they could capture the fans in a never-ending loop of loosely resolved stories featuring less and less compelling characters. Well, I don't think that strategy is working out too well for them. For me, the story ended with the Pain arc. The rest is just a money grab.

 

Oh, I feel you, Tricks. :( I noticed it too that all the stuff we saw later on after Pain was trying to be comprehensive and cohesive, but it wasn't due to Kishimoto's new editors, and then as the war went on and such, fan demand for stuff.

 

http://jamestheguy.t...ns-more-tho-but

 

Our own James S. Cassidy said it best in this reblog, and honestly, it sucks how the last parts of Naruto just are made to make NaruHina happen, like Sakura just instantly forgetting her growing feelings for Naruto in favor of Sasuke who was nothing but an @$$hole to her a majority of the time, making Naruto emotionally inept in spite of what the series said early on, and thus making them into a terrible woman (Sakura) and the worst scumbag (Naruto), all for the sake of people who just self-insert themselves with Sasuke and Hinata, which is SO tragic. X_X

 

I feel like you the story really ended with the Pain arc, since Naruto finally got the recognition he had hoped to get from becoming Hokage by protecting the Leaf from Nagato and to be seen just as himself, not as Kurama's Jinchuriki alone. He had it all, then it just went to hell as things went on.

 

I could so go on, given Naruto is only with Hinata out of guilt and all of that, but I don't feel like it. I'm just drained by discussing the ending constantly, since it just shows how pathetic it is, and how it wasn't meant to be, yet for some pathetic reason, the creator didn't have the guts to do what he wanted to do, and caved into fanatics, morons, and people only wanting money.

[BlackBird19]

@tricksie:

I agree with you that the original story ended with the Pain arc and the rest was a poor attempt to try and keep it cohesive while setting up the horrible ending. The Pain arc, though also seemed to be where they started to incorporate ideas that would later ruin the story. Most notably the 'child of prophecy' angle. Naruto not being a chosen one, but a child of circumstance (especially in pertaining to him being a jinchuuriki) was something I enjoyed and made his story just a little different from other hero's tales.

 

I also agree with you that everything after the Pain arc was most definitely a cash grab. The lengths at which they're going to now to continue the franchise is proof enough. I brought up Sasuke and Hinata not because I think that everything was set up specifically for them but because their popularity was just the convenience needed to warrant the decision that enabled the shift in the story. So they could write a NH and SS ending that would allow children to be created for both couples and give them their main characters for the continuance of the franchise with a next generation.

 

I've never had a doubt in my mind that the story was changed and ruined because of a business decision. The manga being drawn out, the anime never ending, the Gaiden, two movies in less than a year and several novels all so the franchise stays relevant and continues to make money. The quantity over quality business plan. It's a shame what money did to this story. 

Edited by BlackBird19, 07 January 2016 - 06:45 AM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

To me, the story ended after the Pain arc. Up until that point the story of Naruto was cohesive, had goals and was steadily checking those off in the typical 'hero's journey' way. He had defeated the Big Bad (Pain), been acknowledged by the village and his main love interest, and now all he had to save Sasuke.

 

Again, plugging into the hero's journey formula, this would have been a task the Naruto and Naruto alone had to do. So the final lost arc of this story of Naruto would have been a second "Save Sasuke Arc," taken on by Naruto alone. And that struggle/battle/resolution would have mirrored the end of the Part 1, with the 'Save Sasuke Arc' where the all the rookies battled to save him.

 

(And keeping with the hero's journey formula, Naruto would succeed where the whole group failed because he alone had the mystical 'child of prophecy' power needed to save Sasuke, which would of course be revealed in the final struggle when it kicked into gear to save Naruto and change Sasuke's heart at the last minute.)

 

In the lost arc, the last overarching plot point of saving Sasuke would have been resolved. Then the story would have been finished, all goals met.

 

But unfortunately, they opted to drag the series out for 5+ more years, making bags of money, and unraveled the entire story. While I don't like Sasuke or Hinata, I don't think the story was continued just for those characters. (Although it might have been a secondary goal for some staff members). I think the people over Kishimoto's head offered him a deal he couldn't refuse: extending his contract and dragging out the story.

 

After that, for me, there is just simply no more story. EVERYTHING is filler arc after filler arc, waiting until the end. There is no more plot. Only needless battles and rivalry, punctuated by Sasuke looking cool and Hinata being sappy. Naruto, as a story, simply ceases to exist.

 

And it's crazy because I can't even argue plot points or where things went wrong. There was no effort made to continue anything even remotely like a plot for Naruto. I suppose there was some effort made with Sasuke and the Uchiha characters and backgrounds, but even those are largely unresolved. But it's not like we're looking comparing a 'Naruto' half of the story with a 'Sasuke' half. Most of the Uchiha moments turned out to be mostly filler as well, leading to the last battle with Naruto and Sasuke feeling just tacked on at the end. 

 

My takeaway from the manga, looking back on it after time has passed, is that there was a clear, cohesive, enjoyable story through the Pain Arc. And then it stopped. And the fragmented mess of Part 2 doesn't even resemble a story. Just weekly installments that we were led to believe were going somewhere. But in the end, the only place it went was to lead us farther and farther away from what the original story was about.

 

I guessed they hoped they could capture the fans in a never-ending loop of loosely resolved stories featuring less and less compelling characters. Well, I don't think that strategy is working out too well for them. For me, the story ended with the Pain arc. The rest is just a money grab.

And it also doesn't help that, aside from most of them never being fully resolved, a number of new things suddenly brought up also contradicted established points from previously in the story.

Like one of my biggest irks being Kinkaku and Ginkaku. IIRC, it was established that Kurama's chakra was so vast and malicious that it would instantly kill any fully grown adult (with developed chakra coils), which is why, when Minato planned to seal Kurama, not only did he have to use a newborn baby with a freshly cut umbilical cord AND invoke the Shinigami of all things, but he also had to split Kurama's chakra in two so that it would have less of a chance of killing that baby anyway, And yet we're supposed to believe that these brothers not only survived being eaten by Kurama, but also managed to eat parts of him that should be nothing but pure chakra as if he were a real physical giant fox with meat, take in a small part of his pure and whole chakra that was already said to be lethal like that, and even able to control it to the point where they could willingly go up to a six-tailed form and maintain complete control of themselves? I mean, sure, Ay does make a very loose passing statement about rumors that they could be descended from Hagaromo (another random and unresolved hole), but even that should be no excuse for such a thing.

[VanitasDS76491]

And it also doesn't help that, aside from most of them never being fully resolved, a number of new things suddenly brought up also contradicted established points from previously in the story.

Like one of my biggest irks being Kinkaku and Ginkaku. IIRC, it was established that Kurama's chakra was so vast and malicious that it would instantly kill any fully grown adult (with developed chakra coils), which is why, when Minato planned to seal Kurama, not only did he have to use a newborn baby with a freshly cut umbilical cord AND invoke the Shinigami of all things, but he also had to split Kurama's chakra in two so that it would have less of a chance of killing that baby anyway, And yet we're supposed to believe that these brothers not only survived being eaten by Kurama, but also managed to eat parts of him that should be nothing but pure chakra as if he were a real physical giant fox with meat, take in a small part of his pure and whole chakra that was already said to be lethal like that, and even able to control it to the point where they could willingly go up to a six-tailed form and maintain complete control of themselves? I mean, sure, Ay does make a very loose passing statement about rumors that they could be descended from Hagaromo (another random and unresolved hole), but even that should be no excuse for such a thing.

That also bring up a plot hole about how Obito and Madara could do that with the ten-tails when they were fully grown men and this that how all tailed-beasts are sealed up or just Garra and Naruto's cause I don't think Kushina did that when she got Kurama she was a pre-teen at most.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I just find it funny on how easy it is to become a jinchuuriki.

[Codus N]

To me, the story ended after the Pain arc. Up until that point the story of Naruto was cohesive, had goals and was steadily checking those off in the typical 'hero's journey' way. He had defeated the Big Bad (Pain), been acknowledged by the village and his main love interest, and now all he had to save Sasuke.
 
Again, plugging into the hero's journey formula, this would have been a task the Naruto and Naruto alone had to do. So the final lost arc of this story of Naruto would have been a second "Save Sasuke Arc," taken on by Naruto alone. And that struggle/battle/resolution would have mirrored the end of the Part 1, with the 'Save Sasuke Arc' where the all the rookies battled to save him.
 
(And keeping with the hero's journey formula, Naruto would succeed where the whole group failed because he alone had the mystical 'child of prophecy' power needed to save Sasuke, which would of course be revealed in the final struggle when it kicked into gear to save Naruto and change Sasuke's heart at the last minute.)
 
In the lost arc, the last overarching plot point of saving Sasuke would have been resolved. Then the story would have been finished, all goals met.
 
But unfortunately, they opted to drag the series out for 5+ more years, making bags of money, and unraveled the entire story. While I don't like Sasuke or Hinata, I don't think the story was continued just for those characters. (Although it might have been a secondary goal for some staff members). I think the people over Kishimoto's head offered him a deal he couldn't refuse: extending his contract and dragging out the story.
 
After that, for me, there is just simply no more story. EVERYTHING is filler arc after filler arc, waiting until the end. There is no more plot. Only needless battles and rivalry, punctuated by Sasuke looking cool and Hinata being sappy. Naruto, as a story, simply ceases to exist.
 
And it's crazy because I can't even argue plot points or where things went wrong. There was no effort made to continue anything even remotely like a plot for Naruto. I suppose there was some effort made with Sasuke and the Uchiha characters and backgrounds, but even those are largely unresolved. But it's not like we're looking comparing a 'Naruto' half of the story with a 'Sasuke' half. Most of the Uchiha moments turned out to be mostly filler as well, leading to the last battle with Naruto and Sasuke feeling just tacked on at the end. 
 
My takeaway from the manga, looking back on it after time has passed, is that there was a clear, cohesive, enjoyable story through the Pain Arc. And then it stopped. And the fragmented mess of Part 2 doesn't even resemble a story. Just weekly installments that we were led to believe were going somewhere. But in the end, the only place it went was to lead us farther and farther away from what the original story was about.
 
I guessed they hoped they could capture the fans in a never-ending loop of loosely resolved stories featuring less and less compelling characters. Well, I don't think that strategy is working out too well for them. For me, the story ended with the Pain arc. The rest is just a money grab.

I generally agree with your points, tricks. But I would have one major question pertaining a certain character. Kakashi. Where would his resolution be? The story, to me, was [b][i]about Team 7[b][i]. That includes Kakashi. So, he just meets his dad and gets revived, and happily ever after? I would've found it to be incomplete, to be honest. His meeting with Obito had to happen because the crux of his development lies in him.

Sure, Obito could've been written better, but without meeting him, Kakashi wouldn't have gotten his self-recognition. Kakashi's journey was the complete opposite of Naruto, if his student's journey was a journey of recognition, Kakashi's was of self-recognition.

[VanitasDS76491]

I just find it funny on how easy it is to become a jinchuuriki.

Makes you wonder why he never made a kitten way Sasuke would become one. Also I find it weird how Sasuke Never beat Garra who had the weakest tailed-beats and ever when Garra didn't have his jinchuuriki Sasuke still couldn't beat Garra. Same thing with Killer Bee who had the third strongest beats and he only won that cause of Jugo. But he somehow can beat Naruto who had the second strongest beast like it was nothing that makes no sense. Sure you can agure that Naruto didn't really know how to use Kurama's power but still even when just a little power got use like when Naruto fought Haku and Orochimaru in the Forest of Death, Sasuke was still kicking his ass in fact that's the majority of the end fight in Part I flashback to things we already knew and Sasuke kicking Naruto's ass for seven or more episodes.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Kakashi shouldn't be Hokage if it adds nothing to the story.

[Catra]

what about naruto finally learning how to be a host of his beast?

 

what about the minato flashback and the madara flashback? well actually those could have been side stories by themselves outside of the manga

[Narufan85]

I agree with most of the points here. Naruto as the main character is very much shunted to the side and becomes an accessory to the overall story rather than the driving force that he was in Part I. Along these lines, I hate how Naruto is just a passive character throughout much of the story. He never really gets bad about his situation, or the fact that his parents were kept from him, or the "coolest guy" stuff. He appears to be the least trained of Team 7 after the time jump, and he largely succeeds due to plot armor and fate.

[Yyubie]

To me, the story ended after the Pain arc. Up until that point the story of Naruto was cohesive, had goals and was steadily checking those off in the typical 'hero's journey' way. He had defeated the Big Bad (Pain), been acknowledged by the village and his main love interest, and now all he had to save Sasuke.

 

Again, plugging into the hero's journey formula, this would have been a task the Naruto and Naruto alone had to do. So the final lost arc of this story of Naruto would have been a second "Save Sasuke Arc," taken on by Naruto alone. And that struggle/battle/resolution would have mirrored the end of the Part 1, with the 'Save Sasuke Arc' where the all the rookies battled to save him.

 

(And keeping with the hero's journey formula, Naruto would succeed where the whole group failed because he alone had the mystical 'child of prophecy' power needed to save Sasuke, which would of course be revealed in the final struggle when it kicked into gear to save Naruto and change Sasuke's heart at the last minute.)

 

In the lost arc, the last overarching plot point of saving Sasuke would have been resolved. Then the story would have been finished, all goals met.

 

But unfortunately, they opted to drag the series out for 5+ more years, making bags of money, and unraveled the entire story. While I don't like Sasuke or Hinata, I don't think the story was continued just for those characters. (Although it might have been a secondary goal for some staff members). I think the people over Kishimoto's head offered him a deal he couldn't refuse: extending his contract and dragging out the story.

 

After that, for me, there is just simply no more story. EVERYTHING is filler arc after filler arc, waiting until the end. There is no more plot. Only needless battles and rivalry, punctuated by Sasuke looking cool and Hinata being sappy. Naruto, as a story, simply ceases to exist.

 

And it's crazy because I can't even argue plot points or where things went wrong. There was no effort made to continue anything even remotely like a plot for Naruto. I suppose there was some effort made with Sasuke and the Uchiha characters and backgrounds, but even those are largely unresolved. But it's not like we're looking comparing a 'Naruto' half of the story with a 'Sasuke' half. Most of the Uchiha moments turned out to be mostly filler as well, leading to the last battle with Naruto and Sasuke feeling just tacked on at the end. 

 

My takeaway from the manga, looking back on it after time has passed, is that there was a clear, cohesive, enjoyable story through the Pain Arc. And then it stopped. And the fragmented mess of Part 2 doesn't even resemble a story. Just weekly installments that we were led to believe were going somewhere. But in the end, the only place it went was to lead us farther and farther away from what the original story was about.

 

I guessed they hoped they could capture the fans in a never-ending loop of loosely resolved stories featuring less and less compelling characters. Well, I don't think that strategy is working out too well for them. For me, the story ended with the Pain arc. The rest is just a money grab.

Do you agree that Naruto destiny is to be the child of prophecy ??

If i remember correctly the child of prophecy is :

1. The one who will bring peace to the ninja world

2. Reincarnation / descendant of legendary shinobi Ashura (or Indra, i don't remember)

 

I mean what's the point of this hype of child of prophecy?? if in part 1 in chuunin exam they always said a Dropout will surpasses a genius with hard work if in the end Naruto is reincarnation of one of the legendary shinobi??. When Naruto fight againts Neji in chuunin exam he told him to stop blaming fate for everything 'Unlike me you are a genius'. I think looking back at that word now after all this time is a bit ironic, you will die in the end anyway as a slave branch family and as a cupid, that is your fate. Naruto is suppose to be like Goku, he is not a reincarnation of any legend or a genius he is a real dropout from the lowest ranking warrior in planet vegeta, a baby that has no talent with only 1 batle power unlike baby Broly who has 10.000 battle power the moment he was born as a genius, but in the end surpasses the genius Prince Vegeta and become the strongest saiyan and strongest in the universe just with hard work alone.

Unlike Naruto we never even see him once win a fight against Sasuke, he will forever stay in his shadow. He lose everything in every aspect, Sasuke is equal or stronger than him no matter how hard he train and work, he lost the girl of his dream to his rival sasuke no matter how many sacrifice and hard work he try to make her happy, and in the end he become a hokage but he is not free he is trapped in the village .. i think Danzou will be happy since he wants to lock him as a jinchuriki in the village, while Sasuke get his freedom to travel around the world, and on the top of it all he is even more ugly than before while Sasuke getting even more handsome than before.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

I just find it funny on how easy it is to become a jinchuuriki.

And how easy it is to take eyes from someone, stick them in your own empty sockets, and have them working as if you used them your whole life with no operation or healing period in-between. Even Sasuke needed to go through that before he got the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan.

 

Makes you wonder why he never made a kitten way Sasuke would become one. Also I find it weird how Sasuke Never beat Garra who had the weakest tailed-beats and ever when Garra didn't have his jinchuuriki Sasuke still couldn't beat Garra. Same thing with Killer Bee who had the third strongest beats and he only won that cause of Jugo. But he somehow can beat Naruto who had the second strongest beast like it was nothing that makes no sense. Sure you can agure that Naruto didn't really know how to use Kurama's power but still even when just a little power got use like when Naruto fought Haku and Orochimaru in the Forest of Death, Sasuke was still kicking his ass in fact that's the majority of the end fight in Part I flashback to things we already knew and Sasuke kicking Naruto's ass for seven or more episodes.

Well, to be fair, even Shukaku, despite being the "weakest" of the Biju, is still a Biju who vastly outclasses any "normal" human. Even Gamabunta could barely do anything against him besides hold him in place just long enough for Naruto to wake Gaara up (and even then, it required a Henge into Kurama in order to give Gamabunta the claws needed to get that grip).

Also, Sasuke was still that immature kid who thought brute power alone would win all his battles while not really knowing how to use his Sharingan besides the obvious basic abilities. Otherwise, as he showed against Naruto in their first meeting in Part Two, he could have easily just sealed Shukaku's power from Gaara or something.

And with the Valley of the End, some of the reasons are that...

1.) Naruto was probably holding back (as best he could anyway), not wanting to kill Sasuke, of course.

2.) Naruto was barely thinking by that point given Kurama was now pushing through more of his chakra to influence Naruto.

3.) Coupled with number two, Sasuke also came to some realizations, which what allowed him to awaken the third tomoe of his Sharingan and greatly increasing its abilities.

 

Do you agree that Naruto destiny is to be the child of prophecy ??

If i remember correctly the child of prophecy is :

1. The one who will bring peace to the ninja world

2. Reincarnation / descendant of legendary shinobi Ashura (or Indra, i don't remember)

 

I mean what's the point of this hype of child of prophecy?? if in part 1 in chuunin exam they always said a Dropout will surpasses a genius with hard work if in the end Naruto is reincarnation of one of the legendary shinobi??. When Naruto fight againts Neji in chuunin exam he told him to stop blaming fate for everything 'Unlike me you are a genius'. I think looking back at that word now after all this time is a bit ironic, you will die in the end anyway as a slave branch family and as a cupid, that is your fate. Naruto is suppose to be like Goku, he is not a reincarnation of any legend or a genius he is a real dropout from the lowest ranking warrior in planet vegeta, a baby that has no talent with only 1 batle power unlike baby Broly who has 10.000 battle power the moment he was born as a genius, but in the end surpasses the genius Prince Vegeta and become the strongest saiyan and strongest in the universe just with hard work alone.

Unlike Naruto we never even see him once win a fight against Sasuke, he will forever stay in his shadow. He lose everything in every aspect, Sasuke is equal or stronger than him no matter how hard he train and work, he lost the girl of his dream to his rival sasuke no matter how many sacrifice and hard work he try to make her happy, and in the end he become a hokage but he is not free he is trapped in the village .. i think Danzou will be happy since he wants to lock him as a jinchuriki in the village, while Sasuke get his freedom to travel around the world, and on the top of it all he is even more ugly than before while Sasuke getting even more handsome than before.

It was said that the "Child of Prophecy" would bring about either peace OR destruction...and given how the story turned out, many are inclined to believe Naruto achieved the latter. Maybe not literal "destruction" as in blowing up everything, but it's certainly clear that he did not change all that much about the world, much less in ways that would prevent future wars. And the the "Child of Prophecy" crap is one of the biggest reasons why the Naruto story became such a hypocritical contradiction of itself.

And yeah, if you look at all of Naruto's battles, Naruto has never truly won a battle by himself with his own skill ever since Mizuki (and that itself was really only because he took Mizuki by surprise with all those Kage Bunshin). It always required either Kurama's chakra to be used like a crutch, having his opponent having convenient moments of stupidity to allow Naruto to land the finishing blow he never should have been able to otherwise, or huge deus ex machinas like Minato and Kushina's chakra being in the seal and magically awakening at just the perfect moments to keep Naruto from losing to Kurama, or Hagaromo literally handing him (and Sasuke) all that extra power to face Madara (and then Kaguya), or even his freaking stupid fart in Kiba's face in the Chunin Exams.

[Nate River]

However due to the popularity of certain characters the story started to evolve from that hero's tale to one of acceptance and settling. Naruto started off showing our hero to be someone who endured all that life threw at him, but still standing ready to fight back no matter what. Refusing to accept fate, the evils of the shinobi world or giving up on the girl he loved no matter how often he got rejected. His story was supposed to be about how he becomes a great man who makes the world a better place by continuously fighting for it. But that just never came to fruition.
 
Instead we were left with a protagonist who accepts things as they are more often than not. He accepts fate and becomes the child of prophecy. He accepts the evils that men do so long as they say they're sorry and have a sob story in their background. And he settles for some other girl that he doesn't really have a strong bond with just because he was shown memories of her loving him, usually from afar. But most infuriating, he becomes Hokage and that's it. He rests on his laurels and only concentrates on expanding his village and continuing the ninja line as it has always been. He's never shown initiating any real change in the world.

He really doesn't simply accept things as they are. I think the real issue is that the issue is solved in superficial way and it's really solved well before the final chapter. This issue is combined with the fact that Kishimoto clearly has no idea what a post-ninja world is supposed to look like in a ninja manga. To be fair, I'm not sure there is an adequate resolution to that, but this issue is very apparent in the final chapter.

The change of the world really begins during the Kage Summit and ends when everyone is inspired to follow Naruto. So, he changes the world, but it's unsatisfying because it's so close to a none answer. It really is not much more than the enemy or my enemy is my friend.

I've said before that one of his worst, but defensible, decisions was to take a personal conflict and turn it into a world wide one. The cycle of hate worked much better when it was a component of the Naruto/Sasuke conflict. Because of Part 1, when knew why they were at odds. When the five nations, we knew they were at odds significantly enough to have generate multiple great wars, but the "why" is missing. Was it cultural? Territorial? Economic? Some combination? No clue. Without that knowledge its impossible to tell whether their initial decision to follow Naruto and for it to stand for 15 years is reasonable. Even in the end, we see only individuals get along.

In WWII, when Japan and Germany were defeated, the conflict between the West and the USSR resumed. The only thing that joined them was a mutual enemy that temporarily superseded their existed conflicts. With that threat abated their conflict resumed. So whether their immediately alliance would last? Who knows because nobody knows why the conflicts existed to begin with. Developing that takes lots of time and that is one reason I believe expanding the Naruto/Sasuke conflict to a worldwide one was a mistake.

For me, it's hard to accept that its that simple. Moreover, because it ends the cycle of hate, the characters and author are relieved of the need to answer any hard questions. It's not as if there is a universal answer to the cycle of hate, but other than his confrontation with Nagato when does anyone seriously have to resolve their hate. I guess with Naruto and Obito? Sasuke and Naruto never really do. They fight, they draw, and Sasuke decides, fine, I'll try it your way. Is there really ever any true resolution?

Their alliance of convenience is the change, but it's a superficial solution that can't be evaluated because we know so little about the underlying issues between the character and villages.

[rocci]

I just find it funny on how easy it is to become a jinchuuriki.

Anyone could be the host but not everyone could master the power.

Only madara and obito who could change eye like me changing pant, because both of them has hashi cell. You know it's solve everything and cure cancer.

Kakashi doesn't have many conflict. If kishi want to make him into hokage, he must do that during war arc and when tsunade die and make resolve as konoha hokage. Or else just skip it too naruto. He's the weakest hokage, I have no idea why kishi never buff his chakra.

Kyubi is naruto power.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Anyone could be the host but not everyone could master the power.

Only madara and obito who could change eye like me changing pant, because both of them has hashi cell. You know it's solve everything and cure cancer.

Kakashi doesn't have many conflict. If kishi want to make him into hokage, he must do that during war arc and when tsunade die and make resolve as konoha hokage. Or else just skip it too naruto. He's the weakest hokage, I have no idea why kishi never buff his chakra.

Kyubi is naruto power.

I know, but sheesh, where's the roar cry for losing an eye? Why is it super easy to know a jutsu that is unique to one user? And I don't know, I was under impression that becoming a Jinchuuriki takes a while. Kind of like a special transformation such as Super Saiyan 3, only minus screaming. But nope, it's like vacuuming.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I know, but sheesh, where's the roar cry for losing an eye? Why is it super easy to know a jutsu that is unique to one user? And I don't know, I was under impression that becoming a Jinchuuriki takes a while. Kind of like a special transformation such as Super Saiyan 3, only minus screaming. But nope, it's like vacuuming.

 

I wish it was explained why it was different from the Ten-Tails to allow that compared to Kurama and the others separately. =/ It makes it seem unfair in the long run and all of that.