54175 replies to this topic

[Catra]

lol in the amazing spiderman 2 its GWENS own fault. peter actively tried to keep her away and she made this pretentious speech about "its HER decision" well guess what dumbass it costed you dearly.

[Caramelmarmalade]

 
Thats true. But before that there was more SS, like the wave arc, Sakura had called Naruto an orphan, and you had the forest moment where Sakura punched Naruto for trying to pee in front of the group while her inner self wouldn't mind if it was Sasuke. Then you have the Ino vs. Sakura which started over a boy and all that after. With Hinata vs. Neji and her sad background as well as the proud failure speech.
 
I don't think they see it as just eye contact. The poster mention how they like the first interaction because it more likable and they saw a possibility of more pro NH interactions. And when you see more of Hinata and her side story in part 1, I can see why one would cheer Hinata over Sakura. 
 
Like Nar123 and Bail O Lies said, the Sakura bias was established since the beginning, even though she was developing like Kishi first intended to. Seems like people weren't in favor of how Sakura was depicted at the beginning, especially towards Naruto, so when they saw that NH interaction, they begin to support it. 

I dont know what you guys think of hinata but i hated her from the very first time i saw her in the anime. That was me of 10 years old lmao.
My dislike towards her character is getting better, i guess, towards the series but ended up hating her even more with the reason you-know-very-well.
The whole discussions about SS never having sex together, makes me pity sakura even more. What? Sex with his clone? There you go girl. Deteoriating yourself TT.TT SP just ruined my fav heroine ever.

[MangaReader]

 

Should have even taken it one step further saying you cannot love someone you barely know... The canon Hinata we know of knows absolutely nothing about Naruto bar his tragic past of neglect, she doesn't know his dreams, she doesn't know his personality well, she doesn't know his likes/dislikes, and she sure as hell never knew anything about his dream. She did however steal his Nindo... 

[catsi563]

 feel nothing about Hinata at all. Shes not worth hating, more worht pitying if anything.

 

but the simple basic is that she is irrelevant.

 

utterly irrelevant

 

she has no single plot point or moment that could not be done just as good if not better by another character and to greater emotional resonance.

[SlyNinjaKnight]

 

Should have even taken it one step further saying you cannot love someone you barely know... The canon Hinata we know of knows absolutely nothing about Naruto bar his tragic past of neglect, she doesn't know his dreams, she doesn't know his personality well, she doesn't know his likes/dislikes, and she sure as hell never knew anything about his dream. She did however steal his Nindo... 

 

Actually, I think Hinata does know Naruto's dreams, of at least becoming Hokage, though she has no clue on why he wants to become Hokage. And I don't think Naruto does either. Hinata, as shown in the manga, only knows Naruto on a purely superficial way. She knows of his past, the bare bones of his dreams and likes and dislikes, but that certainly is not enough for someone to have a successful and meaningful relationship. Perhaps at the beginning it would be, but since we don't see any interaction between the two, we can't say for sure that Hinata ever grow out of her obsession for Naruto and drawing upon his strength, rather than relying on her own. Though Naruto did rely on Kurama's strength, and Asura's powers more than his own, so perhaps they do have more in common than people think.

[MangaReader]

 

Actually, I think Hinata does know Naruto's dreams, of at least becoming Hokage, though she has no clue on why he wants to become Hokage. And I don't think Naruto does either. Hinata, as shown in the manga, only knows Naruto on a purely superficial way. She knows of his past, the bare bones of his dreams and likes and dislikes, but that certainly is not enough for someone to have a successful and meaningful relationship. Perhaps at the beginning it would be, but since we don't see any interaction between the two, we can't say for sure that Hinata ever grow out of her obsession for Naruto and drawing upon his strength, rather than relying on her own. Though Naruto did rely on Kurama's strength, and Asura's powers more than his own, so perhaps they do have more in common than people think.

We never once saw her say anything about Naruto wanting to become Hokage... unlike Sakura who wanted to protect his "impossible" dream. If it's not on panel and not spoken through text be it flashback, current situation, or internal thought, then it never happened and cannot be assumed it happened. That's horrible storytelling otherwise, not to mention lazy. Regardless of what we call reliance, it was stated many times that Naruto turned Kurama's power into his own, even if it never truly seemed like it.

[catsi563]

to be perfectly fair its not like Naruto didnt yell he wanted to be hokage to the heavens above every 2nd chapter so not like she wouldnt have heard it.

[NeonRanger]

We never once saw her say anything about Naruto wanting to become Hokage... unlike Sakura who wanted to protect his "impossible" dream. If it's not on panel and not spoken through text be it flashback, current situation, or internal thought, then it never happened and cannot be assumed it happened. That's horrible storytelling otherwise, not to mention lazy. Regardless of what we call reliance, it was stated many times that Naruto turned Kurama's power into his own, even if it never truly seemed like it.

 

Kishi did not help to establish a good NS relationship from part 1. Sakura already developed a hate base since ch. 3, and it took Sasuke to call her out on it to even try out her friendship with and understand Naruto. Sakura wanting to support Naruto's impossible dream was the right step, but it was the only step. That was the only positive NS moment in part 1. After that everything was one sided from Naruto's part. The POAL was a significant NS moment but for me it was spoiled by the SS confession. Sakura was willing to leave the village for Sasuke and when that didn't happen, she went straight to Naruto for help? What happen if Sasuke had let Sakura joined her?   From part 1 there wasn't enough NS interaction and Sakura herself mocked about Naruto tragic past (about being an orphan). From part 1 Sakura was solely pro-SS. 

 

Hinata on there other hand was motivated by Naruto which is why she persevered through her fight with Neji. To the point where she believed in his nindo and Naruto made a blood vow to defeat Neji for her sake. The you have the last chapters in part 1 in which Hinata was the last person Naruto sees before he goes off with Jiraya. This is where the "Proud Failure" speech came in, which Naruto gave admiration for. Hinata may not be aware of Narutos dream, but she she did understand with Naruto on what it's like to be a failure in everyone's eyes. 

 

Hinata was introduced in part 1 as a character with a decent backstory who shares the same passion with Naruto when it comes to "Never give up". She was given two significant moments sharing his ideals. Even if one can't see how Hinata understands Naruto NH can see that they share similar paths and would want Hinata to be with Naruto. 

 

Sakura was introduced as someone who mocked Naruto being an orphan, destroyed a friendship over a boy, was willing to abandon everything for a boy. Part of her development was to gain an understanding when it comes to bonds, which was why she was written as someone you wouldn't like in the first place. Part 2, she began an to understand Naruto and was more open to everyone. She started to become more self confident. But Kishi suddenly dropped her, and she was all over thevplace. Very soon she just became pairing fodder. People personally feel that Hinata understands Naruto because they still live in Part 1, and don't understand what character development means. People can't understand what Sakura is to Naruto, because Sakura was given such unrealistic ideals to the point were people can't understand her. Sasuke attempted to killer her twice and she still loves him. Sasuke publicly stated how he planned on killing everyone from the village, Revolution, etc, and Sakura is on her knees begging. 

 

Kishi made Sakura so unrealistically devoted, that it's easy to see why people don't see her understanding Naruto, and why they see that in Hinata instead. Canon Sakura doesn't understand love herself, she's in love with her murderer, so how can she understand Naruto? 

Edited by NeonRanger, 01 March 2016 - 02:19 PM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Even in part one, I don't really buy into the "blood oath" bit as what people like to think it is nor do I really see her inspiration from Naruto SO great.

I personally saw the blood oath bit done not SO much for Hinata's sake personally, but really more due to the fact that, by Hinata taking on his nindo, it was more like it became his beliefs vs. Neji's beliefs for the rest of the match, and so Neji's insults against Hinata felt more like a personal insult towards Naruto's own beliefs and Naruto wanted to then prove it to Neji with his own hands rather than someone else's. And Hinata came off as more just leeching off of Naruto's perseverance, especially with the way she just copies his nindo to use herself rather than coming up with her own. She seems to only gain inspiration when Naruto is being beaten down, but gets back up and keeps going (yet hypocritically at the same time, she completely lacks faith in that ability to get up and keep going like begging him to give up against Neji, acting like one kick from "Tobi" was enough to severely injure him, or her selfish confession during Pein, hence why she so easily gave up trying to reach him and just begs Neji's freaking ghost to save him) but never really tries to actually get stronger herself (ignoring the anime-only filler crap), so if Naruto ever truly succeeded and was no longer the "proud failure" then Hinata's "inspiration" would vanish.

[VanitasDS76491]

Even in part one, I don't really buy into the "blood oath" bit as what people like to think it is nor do I really see her inspiration from Naruto SO great.

I personally saw the blood oath bit done not SO much for Hinata's sake personally, but really more due to the fact that, by Hinata taking on his nindo, it was more like it became his beliefs vs. Neji's beliefs for the rest of the match, and so Neji's insults against Hinata felt more like a personal insult towards Naruto's own beliefs and Naruto wanted to then prove it to Neji with his own hands rather than someone else's. And Hinata came off as more just leeching off of Naruto's perseverance, especially with the way she just copies his nindo to use herself rather than coming up with her own. She seems to only gain inspiration when Naruto is being beaten down, but gets back up and keeps going (yet hypocritically at the same time, she completely lacks faith in that ability to get up and keep going like begging him to give up against Neji, acting like one kick from "Tobi" was enough to severely injure him, or her selfish confession during Pein, hence why she so easily gave up trying to reach him and just begs Neji's freaking ghost to save him) but never really tries to actually get stronger herself (ignoring the anime-only filler crap), so if Naruto ever truly succeeded and was no longer the "proud failure" then Hinata's "inspiration" would vanish.

Agreed I Don't think you can use the anime filler arc for to make Hinata better cause really she  rarely did anything useful in those arc except maybe the bug hunt one and that's it. That how pathetic she is she can't find her own strength or way so she just copies naruto and her backstory is a ripoff of Sakura's which shows how unoriginal the kittenweeds who run SP are. I think Neji's ghost would ignore her since she is the reason he got killed.  

 

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Still not sure whether to laugh or cry about Neiji...

All that talk about fate, and making his own fate, and working to change things and what does he do? Dies for Hinata who has no aspirations beyond "Nardo-kunning." 

Esentially in the end Neiji did the exact thing he DIDN'T want to do. Be a meatbag for the Hyuga elite just like his dad.

The dad died for Hinata, The son Died for Hinata. everything is about Hinata....

[Bail o' Lies]

Agreed I Don't think you can use the anime filler arc for to make Hinata better cause really she  rarely did anything useful in those arc except maybe the bug hunt one and that's it. That how pathetic she is she can't find her own strength or way so she just copies naruto and her backstory is a ripoff of Sakura's which shows how unoriginal the kittenweeds who run SP are. I think Neji's ghost would ignore her since she is the reason he got killed.  

 

I think that's the one arc everyone is referring to, when they think hinata is more useful and more deserving of Naruto then Sakura. Well that and the chunin exams. Other then those two arc i can't remember her having a big enough impact for people to be this obsessed with her. Also that was the arc that let them see her naked, and why would they want to have sexy with that sexy 12 year old. *shudder*

[catsi563]

She never did. As ive stated elsewhere Hinata as a character is Completely irrelevant to the story. there is no scene where she is involved that she could not be removed and replaced to the same or greater emotional effect by another character with better development.

 

the character is quite frankly largely redundant, and one dimensional.

[Yyubie]

Same thing happen in Tenkai No Shichi Ryuu too, the main protagonist Shu end up with big boobs girl while the main heroine Kluke end up with bad guy. Both are similar Shu is like Naruto and Kluke is tsundere like Sakura she always hit Shu whenever he do something stupid/idiotic. Shu love Kluke and ..... kitten what the hell happen in manga world??? Tsundere really hated now??

Edited by Yyubie, 05 March 2016 - 08:44 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I don't think the problem is with Tsundere i think the problem is with the Japanese trend towards "Moe" now.

http://tvtropes.org/...ki.php/Main/Moe

The classical Moe character is highly associated with innocence, shyness, humility, submission, helplessness and woobiecharacteristics (e.g., Fragile Flower, Shrinking Violet, Extreme Doormat, Dojikko, The Ingenue, the Healing-type genre, etc., usually drawn with Tareme Eyes)

Sounds like someone we know quite well

it even came about in the late 90's, around the same time Naruto began...So we can draw conclusions from that alone. 

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 05 March 2016 - 10:34 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Don't remind me. I almost quit anime for good.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I've pretty much taken a break from Anime...Not really feeling it like i used to.

A big part of it is because it feels like its less about the story these days so much as it is trying to LOOK good...

[Bail o' Lies]

What began in the late 90's? As for the movement towards moe. Two possible reason for it. One it a reaction to too much tsudere. When there is too much of something there is a reaction, which means that it will eventually bounce back to tsudere. Or. Two it because the otaku have currently taken over the anime industry and they love moe. Remember moe are the shy girls that are in love with the main character that react to everything bashfully and submissively. There easy to get and easy to keep and maintain. Which is part of their appeal. Tsudere guys have to work to get the soft center which is a pain for otaku who probably never talked to a woman for any long period of time that they didn't have to buy time for or are related to.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 06 March 2016 - 12:02 AM.

[Yyubie]

Jesus christ ... sometimes i'm really feels bad and it really depressed me that i like something that ended up in the minority you know. I feel like whenever i like something, 80% of most people like the opposite one or something that i don't like/hate. I like and love NS but 70% fandom love NH and SS i did try to force myself to love NH and SS but i just can't, i always like pairing that never become cannon. I feel like Salmon that always swim against the current, why i can't just flow and follow the current ....

Edited by Yyubie, 05 March 2016 - 11:57 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

What began in the late 90's? As for the movement towards moe. Two possible reason for it. One it a reaction to too much tsudere. When there is too much of something there is a reaction, which means that it will eventually bounce back to tsudere. Or. Two it because the otaku have currently taken over the anime industry and they love moe. Remember moe are the shy girls that are in love with the main character that react to everything bashfully and submissively. There easy to get and easy to keep and maintain. Which is part of their appeal. Tsudere guys have to work to get the soft center which is a pain for otaku who probably never talked to a woman for any long period of time that they didn't have to buy time for or are related to.

The "moe" movement became big in the late 90's, Naruto's one shot was in 1997, and the "tweaked" version that we know now came out in 1999. So its not surprising that Moe-Hinata became so crazy popular when that comes to light. Its just the trendy thing in the industry right now.