99 replies to this topic

[Nate River]

Yasser Arafat being one of the most ridiculous Nobel recipients? PLEASE. The guy made a deal with Israel that created peace, (even though it was short-lived) please, anybody give me reasons WHY it was ridiculous of him to receive it......

One, Sir Whirly's post is a joke. Take a look at who is saying it: Kanye West.

Second, it's probably because his signing of the Oslo's Accords turned out to be meaningless when he spent the following decade sending suicide bombers into Israel and running the PLO like a dictator.

[Codus N]

Ok, I got your POV but, he had a good reason to do so, after Yitzhak Rabin was shot, there erupted skirmishes by Israel first, now, I'm not exactly sure about this, but considering I was too young to actually understand it, & I only got references from history books, after the shooting incident by the right movement. The right side took order & what have we here?? Skirmishes & which resulted in people saying the skirmishes was a fact that the peace accord was a failure. y'know very well that the right side wants all-out war & exterminate Palestine. TBH, I don't get why you guys are bashing Yasser Arafat. You guys should've also blamed Israel for not staying true to the peace accord. Arafat tried his best to control PLO, but some of them defected & decided to go to war. Remember, "War creates War, Pain creates Pain, Hatred creates Hatred". It was because of this cycle, the peace accord failed. It was also most likely that he was being pressurized to send suicide bombers. Besides, not all of them were working for the government. Some of them did it on their own.

[ForgottenBushido]

Well ya know....if anything does happen to the planet. 'cause of what we're doing to it? Everyone knows the Weapons will wake up and "Holy" will save us.

[Nate River]

Ok, I got your POV but, he had a good reason to do so, after Yitzhak Rabin was shot, there erupted skirmishes by Israel first, now, I'm not exactly sure about this, but considering I was too young to actually understand it, & I only got references from history books, after the shooting incident by the right movement. The right side took order & what have we here?? Skirmishes & which resulted in people saying the skirmishes was a fact that the peace accord was a failure. y'know very well that the right side wants all-out war & exterminate Palestine. TBH, I don't get why you guys are bashing Yasser Arafat. You guys should've also blamed Israel for not staying true to the peace accord. Arafat tried his best to control PLO, but some of them defected & decided to go to war. Remember, "War creates War, Pain creates Pain, Hatred creates Hatred". It was because of this cycle, the peace accord failed. It was also most likely that he was being pressurized to send suicide bombers. Besides, not all of them were working for the government. Some of them did it on their own.

So, let's see if I got it straight. It's all Israel's fault (it always seems to be), they had it coming, and to the extent that it was a bad thing Arafat's not to blame. Gotcha.

And I don't remember the "right side" calling for extermination. I do, however, remember Ahmadinjead's repeated statements to wipe Israel off the map. I do know that they use Hezbollah as a proxy to fight Isreal. I also know Hamas's constitution has the eradication of Israel written into it. I also remember the skirmishes of last year actually began because Hamas had been firing rockets into Israeli territory and that the ones before that, with Hezbollah, began after Hezbollah did the same thing.

The one with Hezbollah, if I recall, also came after Israel ceded land and in response to the gesture, Hezbollah used the ceded land to shoot deeper into Israeli territory. Yet, it both instances its Israel that got criticized for a disproportionate response with some in the U.N. trying to light them up for war crimes because of it, as if they're just supposed to sit there and take it. So Arafat can send suicide bombers in response to Israel action, but Israel is banned from defending itself unless its using the U.N. approved method? He gets a peace prize, they get war crimes charges. Sounds about right for the international community.

I'm also aware that while most of the Arab nations egg the Palestinians on and fund groups like Hamas and Hezbollah, they (except for Egypt and Jordan) also refuse to let them anywhere near their country.

[Strangelove]

One, Sir Whirly's post is a joke. Take a look at who is saying it: Kanye West.

Second, it's probably because his signing of the Oslo's Accords turned out to be meaningless when he spent the following decade sending suicide bombers into Israel and running the PLO like a dictator.

Still, Arafat did receive the Nobel Peace Prize, and he was perhaps one of the world's biggest oppressor, yet Europe liked him, and if Europeans liked him, then he is likely to receive the prize. You'll see, soon they will give the guy from Libya a Nobel Peace Prize, and how is sending suicide bombers, and running the PLO like a dictator a reason for peace. Or in Obama's case continuing the conflict in Afghanistan, and keeping GITMO open peaceful.

Edited by Strangelove, 18 October 2009 - 07:57 PM.

[Nate River]

Still, Arafat did receive the Nobel Peace Prize, and he was perhaps one of the world's biggest oppressor, yet Europe liked him, and if Europeans liked him, then he is likely to receive the prize. You'll see, soon they will give the guy from Libya a Nobel Peace Prize, and how is sending suicide bombers, and running the PLO like a dictator a reason for peace. Or in Obama's case continuing the conflict in Afghanistan, and keeping GITMO open peaceful.

To Kadafi? Nah, not after they embarrassed Gordon Brown last month. However, they did let him and his nation head the U.N Human Rights Council. Saddam's Iraq also got to do that.

[Codus N]

So, let's see if I got it straight. It's all Israel's fault (it always seems to be), they had it coming, and to the extent that it was a bad thing Arafat's not to blame. Gotcha.

And I don't remember the "right side" calling for extermination. I do, however, remember Ahmadinjead's repeated statements to wipe Israel off the map. I do know that they use Hezbollah as a proxy to fight Isreal. I also know Hamas's constitution has the eradication of Israel written into it. I also remember the skirmishes of last year actually began because Hamas had been firing rockets into Israeli territory and that the ones before that, with Hezbollah, began after Hezbollah did the same thing.

The one with Hezbollah, if I recall, also came after Israel ceded land and in response to the gesture, Hezbollah used the ceded land to shoot deeper into Israeli territory. Yet, it both instances its Israel that got criticized for a disproportionate response with some in the U.N. trying to light them up for war crimes because of it, as if they're just supposed to sit there and take it. So Arafat can send suicide bombers in response to Israel action, but Israel is banned from defending itself unless its using the U.N. approved method? He gets a peace prize, they get war crimes charges. Sounds about right for the international community.

I'm also aware that while most of the Arab nations egg the Palestinians on and fund groups like Hamas and Hezbollah, they (except for Egypt and Jordan) also refuse to let them anywhere near their country.

@Nate: Hmm, I see now... You're a factual person, Nate. I like that. But, remember that not all the facts are written in newspapers. So, if you want to understand them you would also have to be willing to see their characters & THINK "If I were them, what would I do" remember, when facing things like this, it's all about taking different POV'S & understanding. I acknowledge Hamas' reasons to eradicate Israel. But I strongly disagree with them. & Nate, have you forgotten about the blockade?? Obama has mentioned it a couple of times before y'know. He acknowledges that the blockade & the settlements are a big problem & need to be solved immediately. & as I explained before, it could be that Arafat was pressurized to send suicide bombers. I don't think a Nobel Peace Prize winner would be dumb enough unless he faced a lot of pressure. & yes, I sometimes feel that something about the Arab nations' relaation with Hamas.

Still, Arafat did receive the Nobel Peace Prize, and he was perhaps one of the world's biggest oppressor, yet Europe liked him, and if Europeans liked him, then he is likely to receive the prize. You'll see, soon they will give the guy from Libya a Nobel Peace Prize, and how is sending suicide bombers, and running the PLO like a dictator a reason for peace. Or in Obama's case continuing the conflict in Afghanistan, and keeping GITMO open peaceful.

@Strangelove: Please take a look at my reply to Nate.

[Strangelove]

@Strangelove: Please take a look at my reply to Nate.

Look at Nate's reply to your reply, cuz that's really my reply, which you already replied, but that's how i feel about the whole thing.

But you know, considering the Arab world, everyone is responsible. The United States, the Israelis, the Europeans, and the Muslims, heck even the Chinese, and the United Nations are responsible. I really don't have an answer on how to fix the troubles of the Middle East, all i see is giving Jordan to Israel, and invading Iran as a plausible unimaginative, very destructive solution.

And it seems to me, that the UN sucks up to the Palestinians and Hamas, Hamas clearly used human shields in a very dense population, I consider the attack a miracle, considering that the Gaza strip is so small and so heavily populated, the human causality was rather small, and Israel always stopped to let humanitarian support enter Gaza.

Edited by Strangelove, 19 October 2009 - 01:55 PM.

[Codus N]

^ & exactly why I disagree with Hamas' ways....Some may have been used as human shields but some may have not. The latter is the one where the UN is concerned with. & oh, don't forget "If there's a such thing as peace, I'll find it!!"

Edited by Newkerz, 19 October 2009 - 02:00 PM.

[Strangelove]

^ & exactly why I disagree with Hamas' ways....Some may have been used as human shields but some may have not. The latter is the one where the UN is concerned with. & oh, don't forget "If there's a such thing as peace, I'll find it!!"

Free trade, money is real peace. For eg:

The European Union. France and Britain were always at each others throats for hundreds of years, and even though they still hate each other, France and Britain trade in the EU, so both sides know that if they kill the other side, no one will buy their goods, thus making them poorer. If you think about it, that's how peace in the Middle East can be obtained, if Israel trades with Gaza, then Hamas will have no rock, Palestinians might dislike the Jews, but the Jew might be buying their goods, so they cannot harm the Jew because they will loose a valuable customer. Same thing with the US and China. If China kills the US then it would loose its biggest buyer, and if the US bombs China then it would loose their biggest seller

Edited by Strangelove, 19 October 2009 - 02:10 PM.

[Codus N]

hey, good idea ya got there. Hopefully the prize lands on your lap LOL

[Nate River]

@Nate: Hmm, I see now... You're a factual person, Nate. I like that. But, remember that not all the facts are written in newspapers. So, if you want to understand them you would also have to be willing to see their characters & THINK "If I were them, what would I do" remember, when facing things like this, it's all about taking different POV'S & understanding. I acknowledge Hamas' reasons to eradicate Israel. But I strongly disagree with them. & Nate, have you forgotten about the blockade?? Obama has mentioned it a couple of times before y'know. He acknowledges that the blockade & the settlements are a big problem & need to be solved immediately. & as I explained before, it could be that Arafat was pressurized to send suicide bombers. I don't think a Nobel Peace Prize winner would be dumb enough unless he faced a lot of pressure. & yes, I sometimes feel that something about the Arab nations' relaation with Hamas.


@Strangelove: Please take a look at my reply to Nate.

When you say blockade, do you mean the huge wall they put up? That was built specifically to stop people like Arafat and Hamas from sending suicide bombers into Israel and kill Israeli civillians. I suspect the would agree to remove the wall if they had reasonable assurances people would stop sending suicide bombers, but they have absolutely no reason to believe that and would be fools if they did.

And if also could be that Arafat was a regional terrorist who never had a genuine interest in peace or complying with the Oslo accords. His record after the fact tends to support that, so you're going to have to prove he only did because he was under pressure from someone else because I have a lot of trouble believing that.

[Codus N]

Yes, but you have to remember that some Palestinians live on 2 different sides of the walls. & they need food,supplies etc. & Nate, I said Arafat COULD BE pressurized. I don't have any evidence but there are some clues hinting towards it. After Arafat died, the PLO was in chaos & was separated into Hamas & Fatah. Now, Fatah is the moderate side of the movement while Hamas is the radical side of the movement... Now, can you see it?? it was MOST LIKELY that the radical side pressurized him.

[Strangelove]

every religion has radicals, that's what makes it a religion. Same thing with personality cults, the radicals make it into a personality cult.

[Yakatsu]

every religion has radicals, that's what makes it a religion. Same thing with personality cults, the radicals make it into a personality cult.

Don't go there. That's a touchy subject. One thing is to debate facts. Other is to debate faith.

And debating faith gets you no where.

And personality cults are the fault of the people, who are moved by hollow words. History proved that theory right.

[Strangelove]

Don't go there. That's a touchy subject. One thing is to debate facts. Other is to debate faith.

And debating faith gets you no where.

And personality cults are the fault of the people, who are moved by hollow words. History proved that theory right.

But if were talking about Yasser Arafat, and the muslim world, then Faith is surely a major issue, then again, how did we ended up talking about Arafat?

Oh right, he also received a Nobel Peace Prize.

Just remember that the prize is how the world perceives you, and not how the US perceives it. China hates the Dalai Lama, and still the Dalai Lama received the Nobel Peace prize. The US hated Arafat and still Arafat received the Nobel Peace prize. Conservatives dislike Obama and still Obama got the Nobel Peace prize, and liberals disliked the idea of genetically engineered foods, and still Norman Borlaug won the prize.

[Yakatsu]

But if were talking about Yasser Arafat, and the muslim world, then Faith is surely a major issue, then again, how did we ended up talking about Arafat?

Oh right, he also received a Nobel Peace Prize.

Just remember that the prize is how the world perceives you, and not how the US perceives it. China hates the Dalai Lama, and still the Dalai Lama received the Nobel Peace prize. The US hated Arafat and still Arafat received the Nobel Peace prize. Conservatives dislike Obama and still Obama got the Nobel Peace prize, and liberals disliked the idea of genetically engineered foods, and still Norman Borlaug won the prize.

The Hamas/Fatah are political groups. And you never did discussed the ideal of religion itself.

every religion has radicals, that's what makes it a religion. Same thing with personality cults, the radicals make it into a personality cult.

You didn't discuss facts, you kinda sank your teeth of the roots of all religions. This is your raw opinion of a subject that isn't really favoured to be discussed about. I was warning you, not slapping your hand. Your talk about Arafat and the wars between religions are fuelled facts and the fact we see it everyday it brings to everyone's attention that their wars are not-necessary. And you didn't go about fanatics = religion creators.

Just sayin'.

These people decide who get the prizes.

Note the fact they're all Swedish. Sweden...neutral...yeah. They don't put their noses on other people's business, give awards to people and China and others don't mess with Sweden. Because Sweden never did again against them. But then again..they're Swedish. They made IKEA. Those passive-aggressive vikings...

That and they have very good lookin' blonds...but one question lingers. Are we this awful in keeping in topic?

...OHHH. I know why. Me. Sorrrrrry.

[Sir Whirly]

Am I only the only who thinks we should tell those in Israel and Palestine to clear out and just glass the entire desert around there? I am really sick and tired of the BS that goes on down there. I'm just sayin'....

[Strangelove]

You didn't discuss facts, you kinda sank your teeth of the roots of all religions. This is your raw opinion of a subject that isn't really favoured to be discussed about. I was warning you, not slapping your hand. Your talk about Arafat and the wars between religions are fuelled facts and the fact we see it everyday it brings to everyone's attention that their wars are not-necessary. And you didn't go about fanatics = religion creators.

Just sayin'.

These people decide who get the prizes.

Note the fact they're all Swedish. Sweden...neutral...yeah. They don't put their noses on other people's business, give awards to people and China and others don't mess with Sweden. Because Sweden never did again against them. But then again..they're Swedish. They made IKEA. Those passive-aggressive vikings...

That and they have very good lookin' blonds...but one question lingers. Are we this awful in keeping in topic?

...OHHH. I know why. Me. Sorrrrrry.

Please let's not start a fight, because the thread will most certainly end up closed. Im just saying every religion has its nuts, but since you insist on asking for facts, ill just put on my own Christian religion on the table.
http://www.dailymail...ort-Cancun.html

A religious fanatic hijacked an airliner yesterday because the date, 9-9-09, was 'the satanic number 666 turned upside down'.

You know, im not coming to this thread anymore, considering people already have they're beliefs centered around one thing and one thing only, and knowing that having a discussion will lead to nothing more than pundit vs pundit, i get enough of that in my tv.

Edited by Strangelove, 20 October 2009 - 05:47 PM.

[Sakura Blossoms]

That and they have very good lookin' blonds...but one question lingers. Are we this awful in keeping in topic?

...OHHH. I know why. Me. Sorrrrrry.

Please let's not start a fight, because the thread will most certainly end up closed.

It's going to close anyway, as we have a political thread for discussions like this, and we have drifted from this thread's original topic enough.