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Interfaith Dialogue


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Poll: What's your religion? (46 member(s) have cast votes)

if you don't want to vote,no prob

  1. Christian (16 votes [34.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.78%

  2. Muslim (4 votes [8.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.70%

  3. Jewish (3 votes [6.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.52%

  4. Catholic (8 votes [17.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.39%

  5. Buddhist (1 votes [2.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.17%

  6. Hindu (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Others... (14 votes [30.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.43%

Vote

#41 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 03:39 AM

QUOTE (Tsunade @ Dec 11 2008, 10:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
God is not bipolar only gets pissed off when you go against his commandments. BUT HE WILL forgive you if you admit what you have done is wrong and changed your ways.

You would have to quote me, wouldn't you Tsu, even though I 'specifically' said that my opinion was my own, and no one else's. I just don't ascribe to the whole idea that 'God/Goddess/Holy Spirit' gets 'pissed off' and punishes people. It just goes completely against the 'all-loving' God image. Either God is all-loving, and doesn't need to stoop to things like 'vengeance' and retribution, or God is vengeful and angry and will 'punish' you for being what you were created to be...human.

That's what I mean by bipolar. It's like just which God are we 'supposed' to worship? Because it simply can't be both. You can't be all-loving and all-caring, and yet vengeful and punishing at the same time. All those things are just simply at odds with each other.

QUOTE (Derock @ Dec 11 2008, 10:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You basically summoned up exactly how I felt about my religious beliefs, Shauna.

And yes, I agree with you on the Book of Revelations. I glance at most of it and it scared me. (Oh, and Adam and Eve/Creation story is just a regular fictional story like anything else in reality. Actually, mostly all of the Bible has less truth because majority of it came from the word of mouth and wasn't properly recorded.)

Amen XD

#42 Cloud

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 03:50 AM

The only thing I hate about religions is that when terrorists/freedom fighters bring God into it. You worship the same god. Allah, God, all the same thing to me.

He never said he wanted you to kill. I thought the commandments included not killing? That's why I never understood the kill orders made by the Vatican back wayyyyyyyyy in the Middle ages and stuff.

#43 Dark

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 04:14 AM

Born an Evangelist, converting into a Jehova's Witness.

#44 True

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 04:23 AM

QUOTE (Sakura Blossoms @ Dec 11 2008, 10:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You would have to quote me, wouldn't you Tsu, even though I 'specifically' said that my opinion was my own, and no one else's. I just don't ascribe to the whole idea that 'God/Goddess/Holy Spirit' gets 'pissed off' and punishes people. It just goes completely against the 'all-loving' God image. Either God is all-loving, and doesn't need to stoop to things like 'vengeance' and retribution, or God is vengeful and angry and will 'punish' you for being what you were created to be...human.

That's what I mean by bipolar. It's like just which God are we 'supposed' to worship? Because it simply can't be both. You can't be all-loving and all-caring, and yet vengeful and punishing at the same time. All those things are just simply at odds with each other.

There is a concept of 'sin' that is evident in religions. There are things that you are and aren't supposed to do, and as a practitioner of your religion your supposed to understand the difference between wrong and right. Yes God does love all his followers and when they practice good morals and follow along with the ethics of their religion. However, we are still humans who have free will and can succumb to 'evil' practices that are frowned upon by God. You don't expect to be able to lie, cheat, and steal and think that God will still love you right? That's why people ask for forgiveness and repentance. That's the point that Tsu is trying to make. You can do bad things and commit sins (it's in human nature after all) but ask for forgiveness and God shall forgive you. But, you can't expect to go commit crimes such as murder (with intent) and think God will still love you. The concept of good and evil that's been evident for thousand of years. Evil is bad and shall be punished.

That is point of Heaven and Hell. At the end of your lifetime you're judged upon your life and whether you followed the right path. If you are a good human being and are in lines with your religion, then you enter Heaven and gain eternal happiness. If you are sinful during your lifetime and upon the wrong path, then you are going to Hell for eternal damnation. God doesn't claim to love everyone but then punishing them as well. He is fair in letting you live your life the way you want and then in the end after death comes the time of judgment.
QUOTE (Tsunade @ Dec 11 2008, 10:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Destiny, that quote reminded me about this one joke a priest had told me once.
A scientist went up to God and said "God I don't think we need you watching over us anymore." And God responded "Oh really? Would you like to prove it to me?"

The scientist replied "Okay, how about we make a human?" and God agreed to the challenge.

So God brings up some dirt and starts making the shape of a human and the scientist is about to do the same thing and God turns to him and says "Make your own dirt first."

I'm so telling that to my friends tomorrow XD

#45 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 08:22 AM

QUOTE (True @ Dec 11 2008, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is a concept of 'sin' that is evident in religions. There are things that you are and aren't supposed to do, and as a practitioner of your religion your supposed to understand the difference between wrong and right. Yes God does love all his followers and when they practice good morals and follow along with the ethics of their religion. However, we are still humans who have free will and can succumb to 'evil' practices that are frowned upon by God. You don't expect to be able to lie, cheat, and steal and think that God will still love you right? That's why people ask for forgiveness and repentance. That's the point that Tsu is trying to make. You can do bad things and commit sins (it's in human nature after all) but ask for forgiveness and God shall forgive you. But, you can't expect to go commit crimes such as murder (with intent) and think God will still love you. The concept of good and evil that's been evident for thousand of years. Evil is bad and shall be punished.

Have you ever read the:

Conversations With God series by Neale Donald Walsh

If not then I highly highly recommend that you, and anyone else read at least the very first book in the series. That book series explains in stunning detail and with perfect clarity why I simply can not agree with what you both have said about how God operates. And also, as religious affiliations are like political party choices...either side will believe what is right and true for them...let us just agree to disagree on this particular topic, and let it ride happy.gif

#46 Illjwamh

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 09:44 AM

QUOTE (Paradox Jast @ Dec 11 2008, 06:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I honestly think within the next hundred years or so we're going to see a greater shift towards a... merger of sorts... of the world's religions. When that happens, the amount of agnostics out there is going to skyrocket. If religious fanatics start to increase in numbers as well as a result, I think they'll be a definite minority compared to the amount of agnostics.

Agnosticism/Atheism will most likely grow in two ways... people of our generations who don't really care about religion anymore will not bother to strap their child with one religion or another, and let them eventually choose what they want to believe... which in my honest opinion, is how it should be done. Humans were given this thing called 'free will' that Catholicism in particular likes to preach about, yet I'm not allowed to choose if I want to be a Catholic? Don't make me laugh. We're force-fed the sacraments from the moment we can talk, especially if you go to Catholic school, like I did.

I find it funny how I remember growing up, going to Catholic school, Agnosticism was looked at as a dirty word right alongside atheism. Many times they were lumped together, I didn't know until high school what the true definition of agnosticism really was.

Atheism = The 'understanding' (some athiests get upset with the word belief) that there is no greater power at work.

Agnostisim = The 'belief/understanding' that there is a greater power at work, but it is undefined and cannot be constrained to a simple definition.

I grew up Catholic. I believed in Jesus. I think a part of me still does. But I can't look anyone in the eye and say that the God from the Old and New Testaments is the same one, or that Noah and the Ark happened, or that Moses parted a sea as described. Even with Jesus... I don't intend this to be mean or slandering at all... but maybe he was just the David Copperfield of his time?

*shrug* I dunno. Religious debates, talks, fact checking, whatever... they can go on, and on, and on...

I think a big final push towards agnosticism and atheism will hit when humans start moving away from this planet and able to visit other places in space. When we can watch evolution in real time. Things like that.



Well... if the religious wars dont kill us all first, anyway.

This was a really nice post. I'd like to respond to it in depth, but I'm really sleepy. Maybe tomorrow.

#47 jim1982

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 02:17 PM

I always believed that the point of the Bible .. or Holy Book of a religion to be guidelines. This is how you should live to be a good person. But I have to agree that the Bible makes "God" out to be a "Do as I say and not as I do" type, If God is all powerful, then why would he be all critical over all of human beings faults. Hence I'm being more "Humanist" as they say. I believe in the good in people. If one betters mankind in anyway, its better than killing and destroying. If ya want to make it any religious context, it's a God and Satan(insert good and evil if ya want) is in every person type of thing.
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#48 Destiny

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 03:21 PM

+Waves+
I agree with you Jim, the bible can contradict itself I think it's just important to pick up on the key virtues, forgiveness, faith, love.

Hey guys! Um just to understand why the Book of Revelations is so scary here's some back story on it. smile.gif I truly think understanding the past will help you understand why these things were written.

So the writer, John, wrote this in response to the early Christians who were being persecuted in order to show them how it did matter that they keep faith at this time and how bad it could actually be in comparison to being persecuted. His message was to keep the faith, not that the world is going to end word for word (or in any underlying text) as the book says.

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#49 MagusKyros

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 10:09 PM

God can love everybody, and at the same time still punish his children. We see this everyday with ordinary parents, why not with God?

For me, people who go to hell, don't really stay there for eternity. God can't be an all-loving/merciful but then turn around and condemn one of your children for ETERNITY because he committed sins for around 100 years; that's a contradiction. It's more appropriate to say that you go to hell temporarily. You commit X amount of years of sin, and you get punished for the same amount.

In the Vedas, it is said that only a human can go to hell. There he is punished to burn away much of his impious karma (sin) he has accumulated in his life(s). Afterwards he leaves and starts over as an animal, and goes through the various species of life until he becomes a human again. This goes on and on until he wants no more of it.
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#50 Demonic_Wonder

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 12:29 AM

I was born and raised a Muslim but I'm just not sure anymore. I guess I'm an Agnostic/Muslim, because I acknowldge Allah/God but I also don't care at the same time.

#51 Kamina-Yoshi

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 04:41 AM

QUOTE (Demonic_Wonder @ Dec 13 2008, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was born and raised a Muslim but I'm just not sure anymore. I guess I'm an Agnostic/Muslim, because I acknowldge Allah/God but I also don't care at the same time.


Also, Muslims are extremely peaceful. I would say I am a agnostic-Atheist-Universalist-Buddhist with traces of Islam. No Allah, but plenty of peaceful intentions.

#52 Melancholy Vixen

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 06:07 AM

Eeee. Religious topics always make me nervous, but I always end up replying. 'X3

I guess I'm a sort of Agnostic/Atheist mix. I'm not really one or the other, and it bothers me when people tell me that I need to pick a side. And they do.

I mean, I've been to church and Sunday school and stuff. I was almost Baptized as more of a family thing, but the church told my parents that if they did I HAD TO attend that one church for the rest of my life. So I didn't get Baptized in the end. But otherwise I've been raised without any sort of religion, and everything is going fine so far. I have my morals and virtues, and I would never go so far to try to question someone's beliefs. That's just flat out rude.

The only real issue I have against religion is a group of Mormons (not the religion, just the few people) and for pretty good reasons. For generations our family hasn't gone to church for the simple fact that we don't like organized religion (worship shouldn't have to be limited to just one building), and my grandpa is a great example of that belief. When my mom was little, he was drafted to fight in Vietnam, and was killed during the war.

After he was dead, some Mormons baptized him without any sort of permission because they were convinced he wanted it, and they were going to save him. Needless to say, my mom wasn't too happy about it, and neither am I.

Well, anyway, I say that if people truly believe in God, that's just fine, and if people don't, then all of the religious people need to relax.

If you truly believe in something, you shouldn't have to be so defensive about it. And that wraps up my post. @_@

#53 Codus N

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 06:27 AM

QUOTE (Demonic_Wonder @ Dec 14 2008, 07:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was born and raised a Muslim but I'm just not sure anymore. I guess I'm an Agnostic/Muslim, because I acknowldge Allah/God but I also don't care at the same time.

Yeah,me too I sort of feel the same way.I acknowledge Allah/God but I don't care too much about it. Hell, there is actually some parts of the Quran that I disagree with.Oh,BTW how many times a day do you do your prayers? I forget to do mine almost all the time tongue.gif & oh, here's a pretty interesting fact, my country states that in the foundation ideology there is one god, but this is meant for all religions,which means that we believe that every religion brings happiness,so I guess that makes us pretty agnostic.

Edited by Newkerz, 14 December 2008 - 06:29 AM.

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#54 BlackLightning

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 07:16 AM

QUOTE (Newkerz @ Dec 14 2008, 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
oh, here's a pretty interesting fact, my country states that in the foundation ideology there is one god, but this is meant for all religions,which means that we believe that every religion brings happiness,so I guess that makes us pretty agnostic.


Ah but Newkerz the same coutry also the 1 that claimed that they don't put a religion over another while in practice, 99% of the parliament members consists of people with the same religion. Heck, even in the guidelines of the law stated that only the person with the said religion are allowed to be president and vice-president. I don't think it sounds agnostic at all.

To everyone: I ommit the name of the country and the religion on purpose, I don't want to point fingers and I'd rather have them stay anonymus. If you know what country and religion I'm talking about, please keep it to yourself, thank you very much

Edited by BlackLightning, 14 December 2008 - 07:29 AM.



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#55 Codus N

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 08:20 AM

Oh,yeah I sort of forgot about that,but I don't really remember saying that the prez HAS to have that said religion.I'll check it over...in the meanwhile,it's true that practically 99% of the parliament has the same religion.But,that's pretty obvious since that country has the 4th largest citizens in the world.But I do believe the minorities' time will come (in about say...25 years if not 50) after all we've only implemented democracy to it's fullest for only 10 years.& thanks to Obama, I think that we might be able to see that pretty soon.

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#56 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 08:33 AM

QUOTE (GobiKitsune @ Dec 14 2008, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, anyway, I say that if people truly believe in God, that's just fine, and if people don't, then all of the religious people need to relax.

If you truly believe in something, you shouldn't have to be so defensive about it.

I agree totally happy.gif

#57 Derock

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 04:03 AM

QUOTE (GobiKitsune @ Dec 14 2008, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, anyway, I say that if people truly believe in God, that's just fine, and if people don't, then all of the religious people need to relax.

If you truly believe in something, you shouldn't have to be so defensive about it.


This is the quote I absolutely agree with. Wish many of the religious radicals can understand this.

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#58 BlackLightning

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 04:09 AM

the problem is that lots of people just can't differentiate between "inter-religious discussion" and "Religious word fight"


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#59 Kyuudaime

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 04:11 AM

Just wanting to throw my opinion out here.

I don't really care whether people believe/don't believe in a god/gods, but the one thing that absolutely frustrates me is when people preach it to me, and try to "save" me. I don't understand why they can't leave me alone and think "if he wants to be saved, then let him come to us on his own."

And out of everything here, in my opinion, Sakura Blossoms makes the most sense.

#60 BlackLightning

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 09:14 AM

QUOTE (Kyuudaime @ Dec 15 2008, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't really care whether people believe/don't believe in a god/gods, but the one thing that absolutely frustrates me is when people preach it to me, and try to "save" me. I don't understand why they can't leave me alone and think "if he wants to be saved, then let him come to us on his own."


it reminds me of the one catholic session (Can't help it, I was at a Catholic High School) when the priest said, "God NEVER look for followers, the followers come to Him, not the other way around. He INVITE people Like how Jesus says, "Come WITH me" not "Come to me." "


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