100 replies to this topic

[Phantom_999]

Hi guys, I thought I would like to talk about sexism and my thoughts on sexism. Plus there seems to be a lot of thoughts on sexism in manga/ anime which we all can relate and understand. So anyway I will address 2 things here on this topic my thoughts on sexism and sexism in manga/anime.

 

1. Sexism. First off what is sexism? It, like racism and other types of negative discrimination are based off of stereotypes leading to unfortunate misconceptions. First off let me be clear on this; Sexism goes both ways. Men are just as discriminated against and looked down upon by women. Why this doesn't appear as often or reflected upon is again because of gender stereotypes. Men are not supposed to talk about feelings or allow mental/ emotional vulnerability to show. So you see, men have it just as hard as women, they just don't talk about it,and it gives unfortunate notions that men are not as special as women in some regards. Never the less Women deserve both equality and equity in the same regard as men, I don't deny that it need work. Plus I would not think that empowering a gender would necessarily mean as branding those that do not meet the bar as weak, because that is what causes the sexism in the first place. If a man is sensitive and caring and is a nurturing type or a woman is is masculine, aggressive plus has a dominating personality we should accept them just as we accept those that do meet the stereo type.

 

2. Sexism in manga/anime.  Okay before I get into this topic I would like to address this first as it plays a major impact on what I am going to say. A lot of shonen writers are male. Not to be sexist but that is just how it is, and again this plays an important role. Now first off I would like to point out one thing that is not known or is overlooked when talking about this. Japan has a different culture and sets of values than in Western societies. In Japan, women are not supposed to show aggression or independence, in fact it is appealing to see a woman who is subservient, and gentle. Now based on that fact, You can see that men in Japan do not see women as fierce and stoic about their emotions, not because there are no strong women in Japan, but because women are taught to not show that side of them unless under circumstances that dictate the appropriate behaviour for them defending family or the like. I also heard and interesting note somewhere else too. When Men think of women as emotionally sensitive and submissive, they are actually thinking of their mothers. They experience being taken care of my their mothers as children and associate women with that role in general, which is especially true in Japan where that is highly valued. and in general Men are supposed to be fierce and independent because they are expected to be the providers and support their family by gathering resources for them to survive.

 

Anyway these are Just my thoughts on them. I would like to hear other opinions as usual, and if I offended anyone I assure you it is not my intention, and apologise but I always found these topics fascinating.         

[Inferno180]

I think of it like this, look at the sexy jutsu, both varients in the manga throughout the series:

 

The original where naruto takes the form of an attractive woman or various women to make guys get caught off guard

 

the reverse version which was used twice, where its the same deal but the user takes the form of an attractive guy to do the same thing but to women.

 

Now was there ever an issue with the original? No people make it out as humor, this has happened a lot in the series, its not an issue.

Now when the first time the reverse was used, we got sakura acting all suprised and well excited from it the same way naruto and many other guys did with the original, so was this an issue? I dont remember anyone complaining back then.

Next time we saw it was if you actually saw the SD one where konhahamaru used it but with just guy, again no one complained and SD did more perverted jokes than the main series.

So now today, we get this whole deal of naruto unleashing a group but with various guys on kagyua and sakura acting effected the same way. Now people are complaining about it, and is this sexist?

 

Let me say it like this: Complaining now about any of this sexy jutsu crap on any form in sexism is absurdly stupid.

 

Is the original girl version acceptable because this is just natural? Is this expected? Is this just accepted in soecity that guys are bigger perverts or its no suprise from it so then people can make the notion that guys are perverted with dirty minds? Can I as a guy not take this as sexism? I don't have sex or thoughts of stuff like this running through my head 24/7 yet you get all these people out there that make it seem like it, most of my thoughts are occupied with my job and living, not thinking about my lower body or the bodies of women.

 

Look at the opposite now, taken from the other side, this deal with the guy version on the girls would be taken as a perverted mess, speak about female dismpowerment, or to some others make them think girls would just have sudden "arousing thoughts" at the sight of attractive men or others would take it as the again, deal of men thinking they are entitled to women (when they are not). Now everyone on the other side is majorly going to call this sexist, going to call it a bad image on women because in soceity, women are seen as not naturally perverted, this is why you see the guy pervertism in more media, because for reasons of humans being human, again as a guy, they take this one as the acceptable one, but when the reverse is used, just to make a small simple point of humor, you have people freaking out.

 

The point is, sexism is a 2 way street but the majority deal is, when things like this occur and you have people of the series flipping out when a simple moment of humor occurs, you have people claiming the author is sexist against women, but its no big deal because the opposite has always occurred and the other deal is this guy version of the technique meant to effect girls in the world of the story, is now met with torches and pitchforks.

 

For men and women to be equal, this means all aspects of gender, the social stuff, then there should be no distcimination of double standards, people shouldnt be promoting sexism in one way when it still occurs the other. My point is, if no one gave a kitten on the original with the version made to effect guys then they shouldnt give a kitten about this one when it tries to do the same point.

 

Because the original version to effect guys is acceptable because society sees guys as perverts in this stuff as humor

 

but the opposite with one made to effect women is unacceptable, degrading, and horrid, and brings so many unintended consquences on the aspects of women.

 

All I can say to this is, people need to grow up and get over this, if it was made for humor one way, then it was made for humor in the opposite too. No one threw a fit when this occured the first time with Konahamaru shifting into sasuke and sai in a suggestive position, no one made a big deal when this occured again in the SD spinoff with the might guy harem, this kitten always occurs in other anime with both perverted guys and girls, so why are people dragging heads inbetween their asses when this is just another in the bucket making no difference yet people now act like it does, its just damned comic relief, even if its suggestive innuendo, how many other animes do this? This is common in many of them, and it goes further because no one makes issue with this stuff in even the west when there are jokes only for the adults to get, but seriously, if people cannot take humor for the sake of humor, even in cases of pervertedness, if people can laugh at one version but not the opposite, then they shouldnt even be reading especially when the issue occurred 2 times at least before. Those who can laugh at one thing and the opposite know that its just humor for the sake of humor and just makes things seem funny, its just again, we have naruto being a pervert and someone like sakura scolding him for that stuff, but when she herself displays acts of pervertedness after always berating him for it, that is what makes this funny, she gets caught in the same situation as he did, thats all it is, theres nothing sexist about this, its just humor for the sake of being funny, thats all it honestly is, if people are too sensitive to this well, then thats their problem.

Edited by Inferno180, 25 June 2014 - 03:35 PM.

[sushi.]

Sexism does not go both ways. Only against women. It is a form of systematical opression. There is no 'ism' against men.

 

I agree that male stereotypes are harmful, but it isn't sexism. You need to pick another name. The world simply values masculinity more than femininity.

[Inferno180]

I dont feel privileged at all for anything in life, I need to work for it, there are many more women that have and will succeed further than I ever will in life and I don't feel downed by that at all, if they worked for it then they earned it and I don't feel bad for it. all I say is this all comes back to just plain if people cant take a joke from the author one way, it shouldn't even be made an issue.

 

But in the aspects of respect, people should just treat each other with respect both ways. I dont feel I am losing anything but even in times I would like to not be referred to as a dirty minded boy just because others promote it as such. Yes I am fully aware of the horrors and disadvantages women face in the world, and at no point in my life did I ever think I was ever entitled to anything regarding women, but all i said to this chapter is people who seem to have made an issue with it shouldn't when the whole deal has occurred before. Naturally I dont even like talking about subjects like this because its like a minefield, set one thing off and everyone goes crazy, like politics and religion...

 

But as I said before, if it was not an issue with one way before and everyone laughed and when the same deal today occurred years before and people laughed, for those deeming narutos move today as sexist, its well, I just see it as foolish to make an issue of it when its just done in the same aspects of humor, when sakura berated naruto for being perverted and then she got caught in the same deal, thats what makes the situation for just simple humor.

Edited by Inferno180, 25 June 2014 - 03:36 PM.

[sushi.]

You know it's easy to not feel privileged at all when you are privileged. That's kind of the thing. You walk a cleaner road. (So do I to an extent, I didn't notice how equal I was in my country until I started involving myself in the rest of the world.) It makes one ignorant, so we need to listen to the opressed groups.

Edited by sushi., 25 June 2014 - 06:00 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

I am just going to say this because you already said everything already.

Everyone wants equal rights, but not everyone accepts equal responsibilities.

Repost just to put this here.

 

I watched the video you linked to too. You're overreacting. Come on, she beat him up? She merely pushed him. I think the people reacted the way they did because of the power struggle between genders. In the first situation, chances are that woman is in an abusive relationship, and she is unable to defend herself, while the man is not. I would've made that assumption, but it would take more than a few pushes with the guy. It was horrible to laugh though, they shouldn't have.

See, this is exactly what I am talking about and this is why sexism can and does exist. Thank you for proving my point. Overreacting? Couldn't that be said with the first example where he was pushing her? Yet, people still reacted to it and claimed to call the police on him. You call it overreacting, but when he pushes her apparently that is true sexism? You see I was myself in an abusive relationship were she beat me up, called me names, physically and emotionally put me down to the point that I felt worthless. I know what being the victim of sexism really is and while many of my guy friends saw me being abused, her girl friends called her a saint and said that she was so strong and powerful to not let a man bully her around. Even though I never bullied her in the first place.

To know that you actually think this way, Sushi, actually offends me deeply because I was a victim a time in my life. The more you know.

Bolded: That very reason is the reason why people never see men as the victim and why woman are always seen as the victim. Not all men are the same.

The video I showed you was two actors purposely trying to see the reactions of domesticated violence from both sides and as shown they didn't react to the woman beating up the man at all because they thought the same as you. "Well, he is a man he can handle it." No, not all men are like that and they can be victims too.

It also comes to the point of objectifying men and woman in media. Woman are seen as curvy vixen like girls while men are seen with chiseled chin, muscular body, and near perfect flawless features. Men are just as objectified as woman, but nobody cares about that now do they? Do you think we should have more fat pigs of men and woman dressing in underwear in advertisements?

This manga is not sexist. It's not treating woman poorly and Kishimoto is not depicting woman in a negative light. He has shown a wide range of men and woman in this story of many different caliber including that of strong leaders. There is no hatred of any kind towards a certain sex and to even bring that up means that you are implicating something that isn't.

I bring up shojo manga because they are manga specifically tailored to the female perspective and female interests which means that most of the males of these stories are going to be of stereotypes. Ideal versions of what males apparently "look" like. Should I complain about them being sexist too? I mean, even most of the writers are females and they are the ones that write these stories.

So just as you ask me, aren't you just overreating?

Edited by James S Cassidy, 25 June 2014 - 04:02 PM.

[Nate River]

Inferno,
If you were born male or white or both then people will call you privileged. You could have been born into absolute squalor like significant chunks of the population of the Appalachian's. It will not matter. Your individual circumstances will not matter.

There are huge swaths of people that will deem you privileged by virtue of you sex and/or color alone And consequently will devalue your opinion because of it. In fact, the whole point of that line of argument is to devalue the opinion of the speaker.

It is a racist and sexist argument because it takes the race/sex of the speaker and devalues them solely on that grounds.

[megi]

Sexism does not go both ways. Only against women. It is a form of systematical opression. There is no 'ism' against men.

 

I agree that male stereotypes are harmful, but it isn't sexism. You need to pick another name. The world simply values masculinity more than femininity.

 

I am going to have to agree with sushi on this one.

 

Men do NOT have it as hard as women. "Not to be sexist", but men will always have an advantage on women. That's how it is.

[James S Cassidy]

sex·ism [sek-siz-uhm]

noun

1.

attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles.

2.

discrimination or devaluation based on a person's sex, as in restricted job opportunities.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 25 June 2014 - 04:13 PM.

[tricksie]

I can see this thread going up in flames.... But keep calm and carry on.

[Nate River]

I am going to have to agree with sushi on this one.
 
Men do NOT have it as hard as women. "Not to be sexist", but men will always have an advantage on women. That's how it is.

If the goal is equal rights than I am curious as to what the point of this is. That men do not have it as hard does not mean it fails ti exist or that it is suddenly okay. In fact, by this very exercise you come across as arguing that sexism is less meaningful when men are the target.

I would think the real evil is discrimination at all, but your argument implies it a lesser evil when applied to men because they didn't have it as hard. Again, if the evil is discrimination itself then it doesn't matter who had it hardest. It shouldn't be tolerated. Period.

[Inferno180]

Inferno,
If you were born male or white or both then people will call you privileged. You could have been born into absolute squalor like significant chunks of the population of the Appalachian's. It will not matter. Your individual circumstances will not matter.

There are huge swaths of people that will deem you privileged by virtue of you sex and/or color alone And consequently will devalue your opinion because of it. In fact, the whole point of that line of argument is to devalue the opinion of the speaker.

It is a racist and sexist argument because it takes the race/sex of the speaker and devalues them solely on that grounds.

 

This bolded part, that reminded me of how while there are groups advocating for equality which is good to the benefit of all, then there are those which tend to be too extreme, and then you get people/groups that try to play guilt on others as a means to get what they want.

[Iwantbuns]

Girls are looked down upon, and discriminated against, not for no good reason. It's because of the girls themselves. I'm a girl, and I know for a fact that our bodies are difficult and bring us down a lot. It's hard to get stronger and better, no matter how hard we try, because that's just how our bodies are.

 

It just sucks to be a girl, and that's the plain truth, because there's no way of ever escaping your own gender. Guys have it a lot easier, and they don't even realize it. (Or they do, but they keep it to themselves)

 

Heh... I like the title of this thread. It's so.. casual, lol

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well I'll just say this, simply. I don't see this sexist at all. It will be when it's plain clear that one guy pretty much tell a woman to leave and they will submit easily as there's no self-righteous in them and they will remain that way to the end. Now, the sex appeal, well it can get annoying as to say that these characters are there to pleasure you. When targeting male audience, it's annoying to me to see the fan service and I don't understand why it is needed, though this is usual in Japan at least from what I have seen. I know it suppose to please the fans but why does it happen very often to the point you're telling me I'm at a free strip club. Granted not all do, but it seems hard to take it and it's actually embarrassing to read, watch, etc in public. Why not just tell a story? I don't mind fan service in any media, but don't do it often and give them identity.

[Inferno180]

Well I'll just say this, simply. I don't see this sexist at all. It will be when it's plain clear that one guy pretty much tell a woman to leave and they will submit easily as there's no self-righteous in them and they will remain that way to the end. Now, the sex appeal, well it can get annoying as to say that these characters are there to pleasure you. When targeting male audience, it's annoying to me to see the fan service and I don't understand why it is needed, though this is usual in Japan at least from what I have seen. I know it suppose to please the fans but why does it happen very often to the point you're telling me I'm at a free strip club. Granted not all do, but it seems hard to take it and it's actually embarrassing to read, watch, etc in public. Why not just tell a story? I don't mind fan service in any media, but don't do it often and give them identity.

 

This is basically where you get series that try to tell a full story that dont do any, to those that do it occasionally trying to do a story, and then you get the full blown series that are just fanservice.

 

Naruto is done only a fair portion of fanservice but its still mainly tried to tell a story, SD went to fanservice basically throwing any jokes they could with the fandom both with jokes like hinata being a stalker to the stuff of gaara and sakura being a pair, and the list goes on and on.

 

Worst case though, series like to love ru, pure fanservice, I tend to avoid series like this which are well, bleh.

 

Then you have series that make fanservice enjoyable like Avatar where they constantly mess with the fanbase and bring up things the fans loved like the cabbage guy, but if fanservice goes too far, well then thats when its not as enjoyable.

 

Given what this topic is though, I really dont feel comfortable talking about subjects like this, It is something curious too debate but I feel someone may say something wrong and then well, I'm just saying this may not be the forum for such a topic.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
This is basically where you get series that try to tell a full story that dont do any, to those that do it occasionally trying to do a story, and then you get the full blown series that are just fanservice.
 
Naruto is done only a fair portion of fanservice but its still mainly tried to tell a story, SD went to fanservice basically throwing any jokes they could with the fandom both with jokes like hinata being a stalker to the stuff of gaara and sakura being a pair, and the list goes on and on.
 
Worst case though, series like to love ru, pure fanservice, I tend to avoid series like this which are well, bleh.
 
Then you have series that make fanservice enjoyable like Avatar where they constantly mess with the fanbase and bring up things the fans loved like the cabbage guy, but if fanservice goes too far, well then thats when its not as enjoyable.
 
Given what this topic is though, I really dont feel comfortable talking about subjects like this, It is something curious too debate but I feel someone may say something wrong and then well, I'm just saying this may not be the forum for such a topic.

Well those kind of fanservice are ok unless it gets overplayed in which you should use then wisely. Since this is about sexism, I'm only going to refer to men/women fanservice. That said I feel like stuff like that often tells us that they're made for our amusement, rather than identiable character. Sometimes, even if you have more men or women in your story, if they're there to please your eyes, then the reason for it is to show off their features. Why not try to tell a story from that character or use him/her in a way we can get behind. Unless the story has a reason for them, I can't take it serious.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Tumblr, whose common target for insults and blatant sexism are Straight, White Males..... While simultaneously praising straight, white males such as Benedict Cumberbatch and Tom Hiddleston.  

 

Came there for Pacific Rim fanart, stayed for the amusing irony.

[questdrivencollie]

I tend to give the benefit of a doubt, so I prefer not to accuse people of things like sexism without a cause. I can't read minds. I don't see an mostly male cast as sexist in and of itself. Most of my characters (which exist mainly for the purpose of drawing) are male. I have two "action" type characters and both are male. I know I'm not sexist, and I don't have any real reasons for the gender choices. Other than perhaps that I as a female find males interesting.

 

Also, as brought up, we are dealing with material from a country with different values here. If the reason behind the female characters is the way it is because if those values, and the values in question are sexist, then I guess that would be sexist.

 

 

As a girl who grew up in a subculture where it is believed that women should be  barred from having some of the same roles as men--pastoral positions, military, some even believing that women shouldn't have careers and all be housewives--...well, those are values that I know longer agree with. But I understand that they exist even in my culture.

Still, you know what? I have it way better than women in some other countries. I'd like to see modern feminism be more devoted to abolishing Shariah law and it's treatment of women.

 

Lastly--misandry does exist. Maybe not to the same extent misogyny does, but I've seen women who claim to be feminists seriously shower hate on men and anything relating to men. (I know of one individual raging that women shouldn't marry men or have sex with them and that those who do aren't real feminists because men are disgusting. True story.) IMO they aren't real feminists, because feminism is about equality, not claiming superiority and beating the other gender into the role of submission women used to inhabit.

 

I also agree with whoever said that sexism and racism well never be completely be erased. You can set it so everyone has equality lawfully, but you can't control people's minds.

Edited by questdrivencollie, 25 June 2014 - 07:41 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Sexism does not go both ways. Only against women. It is a form of systematical opression. There is no 'ism' against men.
 
I agree that male stereotypes are harmful, but it isn't sexism. You need to pick another name. The world simply values masculinity more than femininity.

 

I am going to have to agree with sushi on this one.
 
Men do NOT have it as hard as women. "Not to be sexist", but men will always have an advantage on women. That's how it is.

 

Girls are looked down upon, and discriminated against, not for no good reason. It's because of the girls themselves. I'm a girl, and I know for a fact that our bodies are difficult and bring us down a lot. It's hard to get stronger and better, no matter how hard we try, because that's just how our bodies are.
 
It just sucks to be a girl, and that's the plain truth, because there's no way of ever escaping your own gender. Guys have it a lot easier, and they don't even realize it. (Or they do, but they keep it to themselves)
 
Heh... I like the title of this thread. It's so.. casual, lol

Mm, Well actually have you ever heard of Misandry? It is the same thing as Misogyny except that it is directed at men. To clarify Misandry/Misogyny is the irrational hatred and contempt for a sex. There are misandrists.There are women out there that believe that men are better off dead, and that women alone should dominate the planet. Believe it or not, it's there. Men can be oppressed to, whether by other menor by women. I'm not talking about who has it easier, I 'm just saying that the scale exists on both ends. Misandrists exist because there are victims of misogyny, but in the end it creates a vicious cycle wouldn't you agree? Also in actuality there are women that think that men are bumbling and insensitive, and can't relate to others because they are all "logical" because that is how men are portrayed in various media. Is that truly any different than saying that women are weak, emotional and can't make tough decisions? Not that I believe in that stuff, but there are portrayals like that. Girls have it it extremely rough, I don't deny that, but we can't say that men have it easier just cause it's what we see on the surface.
 

I think of it like this, look at the sexy jutsu, both varients in the manga throughout the series:
 
The original where naruto takes the form of an attractive woman or various women to make guys get caught off guard
 
the reverse version which was used twice, where its the same deal but the user takes the form of an attractive guy to do the same thing but to women.
 
Now was there ever an issue with the original? No people make it out as humor, this has happened a lot in the series, its not an issue.
Now when the first time the reverse was used, we got sakura acting all suprised and well excited from it the same way naruto and many other guys did with the original, so was this an issue? I dont remember anyone complaining back then.
Next time we saw it was if you actually saw the SD one where konhahamaru used it but with just guy, again no one complained and SD did more perverted jokes than the main series.
So now today, we get this whole deal of naruto unleashing a group but with various guys on kagyua and sakura acting effected the same way. Now people are complaining about it, and is this sexist?
 
Let me say it like this: Complaining now about any of this sexy jutsu crap on any form in sexism is absurdly stupid.
 
Is the original girl version acceptable because this is just natural? Is this expected? Is this just accepted in soecity that guys are bigger perverts or its no suprise from it so then people can make the notion that guys are perverted with dirty minds? Can I as a guy not take this as sexism? I don't have sex or thoughts of stuff like this running through my head 24/7 yet you get all these people out there that make it seem like it, most of my thoughts are occupied with my job and living, not thinking about my lower body or the bodies of women.
 
Look at the opposite now, taken from the other side, this deal with the guy version on the girls would be taken as a perverted mess, speak about female dismpowerment, or to some others make them think girls would just have sudden "arousing thoughts" at the sight of attractive men or others would take it as the again, deal of men thinking they are entitled to women (when they are not). Now everyone on the other side is majorly going to call this sexist, going to call it a bad image on women because in soceity, women are seen as not naturally perverted, this is why you see the guy pervertism in more media, because for reasons of humans being human, again as a guy, they take this one as the acceptable one, but when the reverse is used, just to make a small simple point of humor, you have people freaking out.
 
The point is, sexism is a 2 way street but the majority deal is, when things like this occur and you have people of the series flipping out when a simple moment of humor occurs, you have people claiming the author is sexist against women, but its no big deal because the opposite has always occurred and the other deal is this guy version of the technique meant to effect girls in the world of the story, is now met with torches and pitchforks.
 
For men and women to be equal, this means all aspects of gender, the social stuff, then there should be no distcimination of double standards, people shouldnt be promoting sexism in one way when it still occurs the other. My point is, if no one gave a kitten on the original with the version made to effect guys then they shouldnt give a kitten about this one when it tries to do the same point.
 
Because the original version to effect guys is acceptable because society sees guys as perverts in this stuff as humor
 
but the opposite with one made to effect women is unacceptable, degrading, and horrid, and brings so many unintended consquences on the aspects of women.
 
All I can say to this is, people need to grow up and get over this, if it was made for humor one way, then it was made for humor in the opposite too. No one threw a fit when this occured the first time with Konahamaru shifting into sasuke and sai in a suggestive position, no one made a big deal when this occured again in the SD spinoff with the might guy harem, this kitten always occurs in other anime with both perverted guys and girls, so why are people dragging heads inbetween their asses when this is just another in the bucket making no difference yet people now act like it does, its just damned comic relief, even if its suggestive innuendo, how many other animes do this? This is common in many of them, and it goes further because no one makes issue with this stuff in even the west when there are jokes only for the adults to get, but seriously, if people cannot take humor for the sake of humor, even in cases of pervertedness, if people can laugh at one version but not the opposite, then they shouldnt even be reading especially when the issue occurred 2 times at least before. Those who can laugh at one thing and the opposite know that its just humor for the sake of humor and just makes things seem funny, its just again, we have naruto being a pervert and someone like sakura scolding him for that stuff, but when she herself displays acts of pervertedness after always berating him for it, that is what makes this funny, she gets caught in the same situation as he did, thats all it is, theres nothing sexist about this, its just humor for the sake of being funny, thats all it honestly is, if people are too sensitive to this well, then thats their problem.

 
Indeed. any problem I had with the idea was that it is mood whip lash in a very high stakes serious moment. I personally don't agree to that but that's just me.  And yeah that is another thing I'd like to point out, In comedy it is only male sexuality that is treated as impure, and disgusting. Isn't that also spreading a negative message? For females it's considered pure, and endearing apparently. Case in point girl gropes another girl, It is considered cute and curious. Guy gropes girl and he's treated as a rapist and sent flying into the air. double standards much? Both have the same intentions. And same thing if accidental, girl just apologises and gets let off, guy gets punched into the ground even if he apologises. 
 

I can see this thread going up in flames.... But keep calm and carry on.

If it does, then "sink the boat". Although you already have the authority to do that either way.

Edited by Phantom_999, 25 June 2014 - 07:58 PM.

[luffyq1]

Tumblr, whose common target for insults and blatant sexism are Straight, White Males..... While simultaneously praising straight, white males such as Benedict Cumberbatch and Tom Hiddleston.  

 

Came there for Pacific Rim fanart, stayed for the amusing irony.

Words cannot express how accurate this is.