27 replies to this topic

[James S Cassidy]

Agree with above post.

If Sasuke wants a possible of redemption like in 75%, he better NOT do any bad things throughout the series from this point on. Unfortunately, the chance could be slim because we know Sasuke is doing this for Itachi, but it doesn't mean he's on good term with Konoha itself. He can be normal, but it's not like the redemption is done.

Also, the reason why I said could be slim is because Kishi has said they will fight in the end and it will be grand. Not only that, but the idea of Sasuke of being bothered that Naruto gotten so strong, the world can feel it without being a sensor. Let's face it, Naruto is too strong for Sasuke now because Naruto technically got two power-up in one arc while Sasuke got one but doesn't do much except no blind effect. So, if Kishi wants an equal battle, what does Kishi have to do? Well, I don't know but I got a bad feeling about it. Again, right now it seems too easy, something will happen and it could be holy s*** moment.

Even if Naruto is more powerful, you know he will hold back.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Even if Naruto is more powerful, you know he will hold back.

I don't think he should or the battle should be like that. The fight from VotE, no one hold back once Naruto used Kyuubi. When he uses Kyuubi, he claimed that he would do whatever means necessary, including handicapping him. That said the battle between them should have no mercy. Not to say he has to kill him but he must give it all if he wants to show that he is stronger than him and finally get the recognition he wants from Sasuke. Not to mention Sasuke wants to stay on the top. That leads to one last power for Sasuke and maybe for Naruto though minor one. I know how Naruto is but that doesn't mean the battle will be a mercy thing. It's all or nothing.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 04 May 2013 - 01:42 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

I don't think he should or the battle should be like that. The fight from VotE, no one hold back once Naruto used Kyuubi. When he uses Kyuubi, he claimed that he would do whatever means necessary, including handicapping him. That said the battle between them should have no mercy. Not to say he has to kill him but he must give it all if he wants to show that he is stronger than him and finally get the recognition he wants from Sasuke. Not to mention Sasuke wants to stay on the top. That leads to one last power for Sasuke and maybe for Naruto though minor one. I know how Naruto is but that doesn't mean the battle will be a mercy thing. It's all or nothing.

Then Naruto is not as powerful as we think he is or that Sasuke is a lot more powerful that you take him for. If Naruto is as powerful as you assuming he is, then he has to hold back to not kill his best friend, unless he is fully eager to kill him, but I doubt it. It is not so much about mercy, but being the hero that preserves life, not take it. Sometimes it is the only thing that divides heroes and villains.

Given that Naruto said he was going to die with Sasuke over this, I am going to assume he is willing to take the death blow for the sake of not living with failure. Which is kind of selfish, but I covered this somewhere else. Strength is also not in just power, but willing to do the right thing even in the worst of times. Naruto can show "strength" not by beating him senseless, but strength in not letting the bad moments lead him to darkness. Unlike Sasuke who let his hatred drive his intentions.

Naruto will only go all out if he has to, but only as a last resort.

"I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something, to break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't you, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose and show you just how powerful I really am."
-Superman

[TouKen4Life3g]

Then Naruto is not as powerful as we think he is or that Sasuke is a lot more powerful that you take him for. If Naruto is as powerful as you assuming he is, then he has to hold back to not kill his best friend, unless he is fully eager to kill him, but I doubt it. It is not so much about mercy, but being the hero that preserves life, not take it. Sometimes it is the only thing that divides heroes and villains.

Given that Naruto said he was going to die with Sasuke over this, I am going to assume he is willing to take the death blow for the sake of not living with failure. Which is kind of selfish, but I covered this somewhere else. Strength is also not in just power, but willing to do the right thing even in the worst of times. Naruto can show "strength" not by beating him senseless, but strength in not letting the bad moments lead him to darkness. Unlike Sasuke who let his hatred drive his intentions.

Naruto will only go all out if he has to, but only as a last resort.

"I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something, to break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't you, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose and show you just how powerful I really am."
-Superman

I know, but I still think he will go all out. I think susanoo is an excuse for Naruto to do all the rasenshuriken without the need to kill, since it's like the best defense ever. Pretty much all the moves that's once used as a killing blow will be only a damage hit because of strong defense. Naruto always sees himself weak, so I don't think he has to hold back if he's weak. Look at Hashirama/Madara battle. They fought with all they got. It's the conclusion is where you decide to whether to hold back aka not killing him, or go all out, resulting him to die. It happened at VotE when Sasuke decided to show mercy by not killing him. It's the last moment that will be mercy or not.

That all said Sasuke was bothered by Naruto's sudden upgrade, especially how everyone around him was rubbing in saying it's so strong yet so far away. None of them are sensor and Sasuke walked away while Orochimaru knows that it bothered him more than he shows. To me, it gives me an idea that Sasuke will get one last power up. Don't know what, but don't be surprise it's not good. I mean look at Naruto. He got two power-up in one arc. The one with timer can kill Sasuke ASAP or in this case, defeat him with a blow or two. Somehow, I feel that the mental problem may come back but this time, it's about Naruto. I feel like that Kishi brought it up to give us an idea that whenever happens again, we can tell easily that it's not good. I don't know exactly why Madara turned out that way, but he said it towards Hashirama, which almost felt like he is the one that Madara feels the need to kill. Who to say Sasuke can't. I don't know if I'm right or wrong but you never know.

[Inferno180]

Sasuke is responsible for his actions, I wouldn't be surprised if we got an arc like the trial of Sasuke or whatever. Sasuke is still a leaf ninja but he is responsible for his actions as many have said before. He is also responsible for his own choice to go against the enemy just recently. As many said before his crimes include:
-Defection from the village
-Potential intelligence risk from being a leaf ninja defecting
-Potential security risk due to the sharingan
-Several miscellaneous murders
-Several attempted murders
-Shifting imbalance of the nations from the attack on Bee
-Security risk to the cloud from attacking bee
-Security risk to the leaf as a liability to attacking bee
-Attempted murder of the 4 kages and Mifune (maybe Mifune should not count?)
-Murdering Danzo who was also an upper leaf elite figure
-Aiding the Akakstui
-Aiding an S-class criminal of the highest degree in ending the world
-Conspiracy to destroy the leaf (he threatened to do this, threatening is a form of conspiracy, though he is protecting the leaf, its still a crime)
-Aiding Orochimaru (this one counts prior to him killing Orochimaru)
-Killing Itachi - criminal killing criminal is still a crime

Geez, Sasuke has a lot on his wanted list, maybe more. Obviously Naruto may make everyone forgive him but thats up to them. I mean Bee would need to forgive Sasuke, so would everyone else he attacked. Only Sakura and Kakashi would be willing though cause they know what a miracle worker Naruto is. This is an interesting topic though, I once actually read a doujin about stuff related to this. It was after the war and the chaos was averted but despite Naruto's pleas along with Sakura, Sasuke was put on trial. It was an interesting one and the ending was pretty good.

[Dkey]

Imagine Madara calling Sasuke his successor and inducing everybody the idea that where Madara failed Sasuke can succeed. I wonder what the shinobi world reaction would be to that?

[Nate River]

Sasuke is responsible for his actions, I wouldn't be surprised if we got an arc like the trial of Sasuke or whatever. Sasuke is still a leaf ninja but he is responsible for his actions as many have said before. He is also responsible for his own choice to go against the enemy just recently. As many said before his crimes include:
-Defection from the village

Yes, it is, but nobody cares. He committed that when he left in Part 1. No one has commented, ever, on the SOP for ninja who do that. I think Kishimoto should have dealt with this at some point.

-Potential intelligence risk from being a leaf ninja defecting

No. You aren't prosecuted for potential crimes. That you might steal from Wal-Mart tomorrow does not subject you to prosecution. And it shouldn't. There are what are called Inchoate offenses: solicitation, attempt, and conspiracy, but if I worked for Konoha I wouldn't take this charge.

What intelligence are we talking?

-Potential security risk due to the sharingan

This is a crime? Even if he were loyal to the core would he have to have 24 hour escort service because of this? Isn't this precisely the thing the Uchiha kittened about when plotting their coup?

-Several miscellaneous murders

On who? That you killed someone does not alone make it murder.

-Several attempted murders

Aside from Karin, who? As for Karin, well...let's just say their star witness might be hostile. If they even show up....

Can you say Affidavit of Non-Proseuction. I suppose Sakura might be enough, but she didn't see how Karin got that wound. I don't recall Sasuke saying he did it (as opposed to Danzou). How would you prove it's nothing more than callous failure to render aid if Karin lies out her ass?

Ah Sakura. If being a flaming a**hole guilty of your own crimes doesn't prevent prosecution (See, Itachi, and Danzo) then Sakura needs to be prosecuted for Aggravated Assault w/Deadly Weapon. Threatening someone with a Deadly Weapon, which she did, is all it takes. What's her defense to that if Sasuke can be nailed for Itachi? Can't have it both ways.

-Shifting imbalance of the nations from the attack on Bee
-Security risk to the cloud from attacking bee
-Security risk to the leaf as a liability to attacking bee

Yeah. These are international incidents, not crimes. Attempted Kidnapping would be...but they should probably be forced to swallow their pride over the whole Hyuuga thing. I feel for bee, but I don't feel for the Ei. Although, did Kishi pin that on his (likely) dead predecessor?

Attepted murder of the 4 kages and Mifune (maybe Mifune should not count?)

Good luck with that. Mifune struck first and much of that looks like mutual combat.

-Murdering Danzo who was also an upper leaf elite figure

HAHAHA!

This would be like prosecuting the guy who punched a drunk bar patron who was making grossly inappropriate advances on their friend/gf/wife and otherwise picking fights (but doesn't throw the first punch). Yeah, it's technically Assault, but the doofus had it coming and no one is going to convict because they'd have all punched the a**hole too.

Regardless of intent, no one is sad Sasuke did this.

If he got convicted it be because of all the other crap and this was just the best tool to get a hook in him. It wouldn't be because he murdered Danzou. It smells of mutual combat, but even if' it's not, he did what they all wish they could have done.

-Aiding the Akakstui

Yeah, probably. With the way conspiracy charges work, yeah, they'd all be in a world of hurt. As a member of the conspiracy you are prosecutable for every crime in member commits in furtherance of it while you are a part of it even if you didn't know or weren't personally involved in a individual crime.

You need at least three people, but Team Hawk and Kisame would do it.

-Aiding an S-class criminal of the highest degree in ending the world

Same thing.

-Conspiracy to destroy the leaf (he threatened to do this, threatening is a form of conspiracy, though he is protecting the leaf, its still a crime)

Yeah, probably.

-Aiding Orochimaru (this one counts prior to him killing Orochimaru)

Aided in doing what?

-Killing Itachi - criminal killing criminal is still a crime

See Danzo. They all would have killed him too. That Itachi came back later and said it was to prevent a coup....

Has was Sasuke supposed to know that? It's REAL hard to fault Sasuke for this.

Geez, Sasuke has a lot on his wanted list, maybe more. Obviously Naruto may make everyone forgive him but thats up to them. I mean Bee would need to forgive Sasuke, so would everyone else he attacked. Only Sakura and Kakashi would be willing though cause they know what a miracle worker Naruto is. This is an interesting topic though, I once actually read a doujin about stuff related to this. It was after the war and the chaos was averted but despite Naruto's pleas along with Sakura, Sasuke was put on trial. It was an interesting one and the ending was pretty good.

This is the kind of thing that makes for law school exams in Crim Law classes. My Texas Criminal Procedure final exam involved Scooby Doo. I'm not kidding.

I can't read fan stuff related to this. My knowledge base makes it real hard to enjoy because the author rarely knows what they are talking about and clearly did no research. I once read a fic that involved a male and female juvenile being place in the same cell in an adult jail.

Yeah...

The jail that does that is the one that doesn't mind Section 1983 civil rights lawsuits.

[Lalufuffy]

Hey guys, I'm too lazy to re-read the concerning scenes so pls correct me if I'm wrong. Rant on Sasuke's crimes/character (which I posted on another forum):

People say that Sasuke was lied to by the elders and Danzo.

That's not true. Itachi was the one who wanted them to hide the fact that the Uchihas had been planning

a coup d’état. He wanted Sasuke to be happy.

Even if Danzo was trying to protect the village through drastic means, he did have a good reason to be afraid of the Uchiha clan. Madara went against Konoha in the past, after all. Danzo was just paranoid so what? 

The Uchiha clan was suspected of controlling the the Kyuubi. People who are suspected of something like

that should better not plan a coup d’état. Then again, the Uchihas were treated like criminals. They were basically exiled to a secluded area in the village.

Anyway, It was like this, Danzo and the elders didn't trust the Uchihas who again didn't trust the village. It was

a complicated matter. Neither of the factions can be blamed for what they did. 

Sasuke killed Danzo. Why? Did Danzo ever do sth. to Sasuke?

 

But that's not the point. I know the elders, Danzo and Hiruzen had a good reason to keep silent about the truth. 

Itachi knew a lot about the village, he had the MS and he was in Akatsuki.

Nevertheless, Sasuke was trained to be a good and strong ninja. He was respected by his peers and by Kakashi. 

Sakura and Naruto have always cared about Sasuke a lot. 

Of course his family was killed by his brother. And I know that he has the Sharingan which is enhanced through hatred. So what? 

You can't use those two points to explain everyting.

It's all about personality/character. Just compare Sasuke to other characters then you'll get what I mean. 

 

Let's take Hashirama for example. He grew up during war. Two of his brothers got killed, one was killed by Uchihas. 

He was ready to sacrifice himself even though Tobirama was the one who killed Izuna. 

He doesn't have the Sharingan but so what? He was stronger than Madara + Kurama, but he's never been arrogant. 

After the clan massacre, Sasuke grew up during peace. He was 12 or 13 years old when he saw the first serious attack on Konohagakure. 

He was arrogant just because he had the cursed seal on second level and a three tomoe Sharingan. 

He said sth like: 'I'm more special than you Naruto'. 

As far as personality is concerned (I mean things like sense of justice or duty): 

Hashirama > Sasuke. Itachi > Sasuke. Minato > Sasuke. Naruto > Sasuke and so on.

Itachi graduated from the ninja acadademy at age 7.

Itachi (at age 7) > Sasuke (at age 7, before the clan massacre). That's why Sasuke's childhood trauma can't be the excuse for all of his crimes.

Itachi had also had the MS but he'd never given in to his hatred (even though he almost crushed Kakashi's mind through the 

use of Tsukuyomi, which just doesn't fit his character. He was with Kisame so he didn't have to use it?)

 

And what about Minato? Is he desperately searching for Obito right now? Does he want revenge? No. He didn't even have teary eyes when he met Naruto on the battlefield in 631. That's badass.

 

This is not bashing, it's just a rant. I just want to see what other people think about it. I know that characters like Hashirama are just uber-idealistic. Furthermore, Sasuke didn't kill Naruto in the Valley of the End which is a good thing of course lol. 

Edited by Lalufuffy, 16 June 2013 - 11:03 PM.