Jump to content

Close
Photo

Is Kishimoto Lucky?


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Luna

Luna

    aespa

  • S-Class Missing Nin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,550 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 10 December 2020 - 12:27 AM

So my sibling is a much bigger Naruto fan than me and constantly watches Naruto repeatedly.

We had a discussion the other day and he told me that Kishimoto was a disappoint and not a good writer. He said Kishimoto hot very lucky with Naruto and that Naruto as a character was very likable.

He told me that there is a lot in Naruto that Kishimoto copied from DBZ ( my sibling loves DBZ as well) and that Boruto is trash. He says Kikittenmoto got away with a lot of plot holes and bad writing only because people were invested in Narutos journey.

Do you agree?

I was surprised when he told me this because he used to defend Kishimoto like a bloodhound.

We were talking about the three years Naruto went to train with Jiraiya and I argued that Naruto's training wasnt that fruitful. He argued against me and only just yesterday he told me that I was right and that Jiraiya voildve taught Naruto a whole lot more.

It was sad that Kakashi had to train Naruto in his element after a whole 3 years.

Edited by Luna, 10 December 2020 - 12:27 AM.


 


#2 Illnevergiveup3

Illnevergiveup3

    My Brittney-Chan. The girl I love with all my heart and always w

  • Elite Jounin
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,421 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Trying to earn Brittney's love:-)
  • Interests:winning the girl I love heart, making it to the NBA and taking care of my family.

Posted 10 December 2020 - 12:40 AM

personally, I wouldnt say he was lucky. His writing in my opinion was consistent until after the chapter when he had Sakura-Chan confess to Naruto. Then he started flip flopping, having the characters go against what they said in the previous chapter. Thats when I reckon he was starting to get pressured. It didnt stop the NS moments and stuff, but he started to contradict what he was laying out in his story, like Sakura-Chan not trusting Sasuke while actively gravitating towards Naruto, but then Kishimoto started to force her to actually give a kitten that Sasuke didnt care, like she didnt already know and realize that. Or Naruto acting like he forgot that he was in love with Sakura-Chan when he spoke to his mother. You could tell he was trying to write what he wanted to write, thats why we got 631, 663, Hinata tripping over the rock, Hinata saying that she was going to let go of Naruto after the war, Kakashi saying that Sakura-Chans feelings towards Sasuke changed, etc. but you could tell when he was starting to get pressured to change what he wanted. So, I dont think he was lucky, because he was consistent. But, I do think he is a yellow-bellied pussy ass kitten. And I say that with all due respect:)

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 10 December 2020 - 12:52 AM.

Superman_over_earth_500x400.jpg

I wish I could have the powers of Superman so I could save protect the world under God's will.

Always have the spirit and the guts to never ever give up no matter what.


#3 Chatte

Chatte

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,755 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Romania

Posted 10 December 2020 - 08:18 AM

I have to agree with your brother. And this comes from someone who also loved this series and defended Kishimoto on all accounts.

What made people do it and why some still defend it up to this point is the emotional journey Naruto had.

Granted, ironically emotionally Naruto didn't even fulfull some of his emotional needs, but still. The effect remain.

What also got people also involved was the RTN movie. How Kishimoto showed us a side to Naruto we always supposed but never clearly saw.

So here came RTN to show us how much Naruto did want a family. It's the argument that NH-ers also use, forgetting that the respective movie is none other than one big NaruSaku movie in context!

But yeah, your brother is totally right. Think about how many things Jiraiya knows (even in terms of SM), compared to how many Naruto knows.
Instead what did we got in Jirqiya training Naruto? Various sizes of Rasengan...

So yeah, I'd have to agree with your brother here.

It's all about the emotional response people had with this series, rather than the quality of writing.

Kishi is good at making u care. But when you stop and think? You can start seeing the plotholes.

2d617bda57e68a9871d0769988a82b4b93870803

Still rambling about Naruto/NaruSaku stuff on

https://chatte-georgiana.com


#4 Nostradamus

Nostradamus

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,021 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 10 December 2020 - 01:38 PM

Kishimoto is lucky in terms of having enough stories from which to copy. And the elements he copied are what allowed and gained Naruto popularity to thrive.

He also got lucky with an editor that guided him along the way.


                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#5 luans7

luans7

    Rookie

  • Rookie
  • Pip
  • 50 posts

Posted 10 December 2020 - 03:46 PM

So my sibling is a much bigger Naruto fan than me and constantly watches Naruto repeatedly.

We had a discussion the other day and he told me that Kishimoto was a disappoint and not a good writer. He said Kishimoto hot very lucky with Naruto and that Naruto as a character was very likable.

He told me that there is a lot in Naruto that Kishimoto copied from DBZ ( my sibling loves DBZ as well) and that Boruto is trash. He says Kikittenmoto got away with a lot of plot holes and bad writing only because people were invested in Narutos journey.

Do you agree?

I was surprised when he told me this because he used to defend Kishimoto like a bloodhound.

We were talking about the three years Naruto went to train with Jiraiya and I argued that Naruto's training wasnt that fruitful. He argued against me and only just yesterday he told me that I was right and that Jiraiya voildve taught Naruto a whole lot more.

It was sad that Kakashi had to train Naruto in his element after a whole 3 years.

Naruto copied DBZ? Naruto copied Hunter x Hunter and  Slam Dunk

 

Itachi/Sasuke = Killua/Ilumi

Kurapika Background = Sasuke Background

Orochimaru = Hisoka

genei ryodan =  Akatsuki

 Hanamichi-Haruko-Rukawa = Naruto-Sakura-Sasuke


Edited by luans7, 12 December 2020 - 06:39 PM.


#6 totherpage95

totherpage95

    Examiner

  • Examiner
  • PipPipPip
  • 901 posts

Posted 11 December 2020 - 05:55 AM

Naruto copied DBZ? Naruto copied Hunter x Hunter and  Slam Dunk

 

Itachi/Sasuke = Killua/Ilumi

Kurapika Background = Sasuke BackGround

Orochimaru = Hisoka

genei ryodan =  Akatsuki

 Hanami-Haruko-Rukawa = Naruto-Sakura-Sasuke

hunter x hunter came out the year after naruto
edit: no the pilot episode which was very different did so naruto could have copied hunter x hunter
edit #2: apparently both manga had the same editor which might explain why they have similarities


Edited by totherpage95, 11 December 2020 - 06:20 AM.


#7 RulesofNature

RulesofNature

    Chakra Water Walker

  • Chakra Water Walker
  • PipPip
  • 447 posts

Posted 12 December 2020 - 01:05 AM

I don't think it was so much a matter of luck.

 

Like my big take has been for a while now Naruto's success wasn't because of Kishimoto. It was because he had a good editor. An editor who knew what sold, and told Kishi what to do in order to get it to sell. I do maintain that said editor planted the seeds that would grow into the many problems the series had, but he at least had a clear vision for what the story should be. And when that editor left, the replacements all pushed for their own things in addition to SP, and since this wasn't Kishi's story in some regards, he allowed himself to be swayed just like he did with his original editor.

 

Kishimoto just created the product he was told to.


iSP2FNe.png

Just making your day a little brighter.


#8 Chatte

Chatte

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,755 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Romania

Posted 12 December 2020 - 08:23 AM

I don't think it was so much a matter of luck.

 

Like my big take has been for a while now Naruto's success wasn't because of Kishimoto. It was because he had a good editor. An editor who knew what sold, and told Kishi what to do in order to get it to sell. I do maintain that said editor planted the seeds that would grow into the many problems the series had, but he at least had a clear vision for what the story should be. And when that editor left, the replacements all pushed for their own things in addition to SP, and since this wasn't Kishi's story in some regards, he allowed himself to be swayed just like he did with his original editor.

 

Kishimoto just created the product he was told to.

 

Now that you mention it, yeah, I think it's a mix of both. Liiiiiiiiiiittle bit of luck and a good storytelling that sold.

 

I say little bit of luck because it's not the only story that sold us an emotional background for a character, yet Kishi got lucky on the accounts that people stuck to that emotional side.

 

Now, who do we owe the geniality of that tactic though? Yahagi. As simple as that.

 

Like you said and like it was seen with the story, after Yahagi left, Naruto lost it's very essence as a story. What kept people involved was the emotional ties they had already created with the story.

 

They were the chains that bind, to paraphrase another Naruto-related product...


Edited by Chatte, 12 December 2020 - 08:23 AM.

2d617bda57e68a9871d0769988a82b4b93870803

Still rambling about Naruto/NaruSaku stuff on

https://chatte-georgiana.com


#9 Tiller

Tiller

    Missing-nin

  • Missing Nin
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,041 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 December 2020 - 09:36 PM

Agreed. For me it all started to fall a part after Pain. Editor changed, and it all came tumbling down.



 


#10 James S Cassidy

James S Cassidy

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,831 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 December 2020 - 09:30 PM

Yahagi definitely contributed to the success of Naruto, plus there was a dry spell in shonen at the time after Ruroni Kenshin, YuYu Hakusho, and Dragonball was at an end.
It was Yahagi's idea to make Naruto a ninja

It was Yahagi's idea to have a rival
It was Yahagi's idea to have a love interest...WHICH WAS SAKURA NOT HINATA.

There were some things Yahagi did that I did not agree with like how he told Kishimoto to cut Team 7 going on side missions and skip to the "Shonen tournament arc," but this is because the fans always like tournaments in Shonen. It is almost always the favorite arc in every series.


My gofundme
https://www.gofundme...c-designer-fund

Δικός σου για να κρατάτε
Σ'αγαπώ

#11 RulesofNature

RulesofNature

    Chakra Water Walker

  • Chakra Water Walker
  • PipPip
  • 447 posts

Posted 14 December 2020 - 01:03 AM

I mean, what was the original pitch for Naruto again? He was the son of the fox, turned into a human child in a world with ninjas... I mean, there's a potentially good story there but it would take someone way above Kishi's writing skills to make it into a phenomenon. The final product ended up being Shonen 101, everything one would expect both good and bad out of one of those stories especially as the story changed hands.


iSP2FNe.png

Just making your day a little brighter.


#12 Phantom_999

Phantom_999

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,982 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada

Posted 25 December 2020 - 12:52 PM

Well, my 2 cents. Even Kishi claimed Naruto was a "lucky or Fortunate manga in that first Naruto fanbook that released all the way back then. At least I think it was, but too late to check since I threw out EVERYTHING related to Naruto that I owned. Anyway besides the point. While  I DO feel that Naruto was a lucky manga in a sense, with Yahagi and being created at a time where the typical Shonen writing for Manga popularized by Dragon Ball have not truly taken flight yet, the ultimate selling point I believe the the sympathetic back Story Naruto had that many can empathize with to an extent at least. It was as  much of an underdog story as you can get and everyone that has ever read it I imagine wanted Naruto to succeed because his whole world was against him for the most part. We wanted him to become Hokage and prove those that hated him wrong because I believe we would all like to have that for our selves in one way or another. And while not a as huge of a goal as becoming Hokage, earning Sakura's love is also something that can all feel sympathy for because again he's more or less neglected and unloved. If any of these things were accomplished I think we will all at least take some satisfaction from it all, writing problems aside. What happened though ultimately, that made this long running franchise so despicable at it's end and to this day is that it (Naruto's story that is) ended with with the most blatant and insulting hypocrisy I have ever read. Naruto did not earn and work for his right to the Hokage's seat, it was a "hand me down" because Kakashi got sick of the position. He did not "fix" any of the long term problems of the "ninja system" despite saying he would and witnessing first hand on the damage that has been done for generations in the making. In fact he is contributing to it in worst ways than any of his predecessors by condoning illegal human experiments via Orochimaru. And most insulting of all, all of his endearing and compassionate traits were completely NUKED because his one true love must be that sexilicious  big knockers goddess Hinata Hyuga and his "crush on Sakura" was just a rivalry with Sasuke. This coming from the so called heartwarming orphan that has such hidden wisdom on love and compassion because he was devoid of it, just made fans lose all respect for him. Again the problem is that his love story with Hinata had to retcon his character because that is the only way that this "shojo soulmates" kitten would ever function. So there you have it, Naruto might have been lucky, is some ways, but its undoing was completely because of "jacking off" to Hinata Hyuga for reasons I will question and despise, and that the story ending up catering to her wants and desires to the exclusion of everything else, the story and Naruto especially  


Edited by Phantom_999, 08 May 2021 - 11:50 PM.

3fbe3276d61acb2079b56cd2212a341c14963200





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users