31579 replies to this topic

[James S Cassidy]

 
I get this feeling that THEY DO, and still have those double standards. That is how much they want to hate Sakura. logic be damned. In any, case anime logic is a funny thing when it come to these character archetypes. They are constantly mixed up, as in some characters is called so and so when they are not, others are said not to be "what they are", the terms are used VERY LOOSELY and in idiotic illogical ways, most hypocritically of all, fans will LOVE ONE CHARACTER For displaying such character traits but BASH ANOTHER for having those exact same character traits. And it doesn't extend to characters, it extends to the very story and plot elements a lot of the time too. That is what I don't even want to get involved with he anime community. I just like what I like and only talk about my subjects of interest to others that are willing to discuss it, CIVILLY

And this is how you know they are extremely biased.

If every other character from Kaoru in Ruroni Kenshin, to Narusegawa in Love Hina, to Taiga in Toradora and so on and so forth is seen as "such good characters," but Sakura is the ONLY ONE they bash for the same behavior...then I straight up tell them "this conversation has ended. You're too biased to see beyond what you want to believe and the fact that you only berate Sakura for the same kind of behavior that many female anime characters exhibit is telling."
 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 28 January 2020 - 06:59 AM.

[Phantom_999]

EXACTLY. I mean, I’m pretty sure you’ve experienced it even before I brought it up (multiple times)

[James S Cassidy]

EXACTLY. I mean, I’m pretty sure you’ve experienced it even before I brought it up (multiple times)

Too many times to recall

Worse still when these same Hinata fanatics think that Orihime in bleach is "too shy and has no connection to be with Ichigo."

But Hinata is just tops...

I have never seem such high levels of bias in my life.

[VanitasDS76491]

Too many times to recall
Worse still when these same Hinata fanatics think that Orihime in bleach is "too shy and has no connection to be with Ichigo."
But Hinata is just tops...
I have never seem such high levels of bias in my life.

Sorry but that can't be allowed if you say that about orihime but let hinata go.
Also I remember in that podcast you guys mentioned others that hit the main character and let that go.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Hinata and Orihime are nothing alike beyond boobs. Ichihime is not Naruhina and Narusaku is not Ichiruki.

The development is different.

[Phantom_999]

Yeah Orihime is not a shy wall flower and can socialize with others just fine. They are completely different characters and the couples in Bleach are developed differently. The problem does not lie with that though. it is the fact that fans have the gall to say Orihime lacks development with Ichigo and therefore should not be a couple with him or is shy around him and doesn't make the relationship engaging, but when the same dynamic occurs with Hinata and Naruto they declare that as "the two flirting and outright declaring their undying love for each other". the differences is not the issue it is the hypocrisy and double standards

Edited by Phantom_999, 29 January 2020 - 12:13 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yeah Orihime is not a shy wall flower and can socialize with others just fine. They are completely different characters nd the couples in Bleach are developed differently. The problem does not lie with that though. it is the fact that fans have the gall to say Orihime lacks development with Ichigo and therefore should not be a couple with him or is shy around him and doesn't make the relationship engaging, but when the same dynamic occurs with Hinata and Naruto they declare that as "the two flirting and outright declaring their undying love for each other". the differences is not the issue it is the hypocrisy and double standards

 

Yeah, the thing is, Ichigo seems different with Orihime than he does with Rukia, where as while Rukia was hinted at having romantic feelings for Ichigo (probably both from interacting with him, and her guilt conscience over Kaien's death and that Ichigo looks like his cousin only with red hair), Ichigo saw her as more of a close friend than anything, even shown when he was willing to risk it all to save her after she had given him the kind of power that he had wanted to protect people.

 

But with Orihime, even as early as when Orihime's brother Sora appears as a Hollow and how Ichigo is fighting to protect her, and even in later stuff like how angry he got when Yammy hurt Orihime when he and Ulquiorra showed up on Earth, you could tell Ichigo had some kind of feelings for Orihime. And Mr. Kubo even hinted at doing Ichigo and Orihime as a couple before the series launched in a pilot chapter, which had some elements of the chapters with Sora becoming a Hollow and attacking Orihime.

 

So yeah, anyone saying what you pointed out just shows how full of **** they really are

[James S Cassidy]

Hinata and Orihime are nothing alike beyond boobs. Ichihime is not Naruhina and Narusaku is not Ichiruki.

The development is different.

 

 

Yeah Orihime is not a shy wall flower and can socialize with others just fine. They are completely different characters nd the couples in Bleach are developed differently. The problem does not lie with that though. it is the fact that fans have the gall to say Orihime lacks development with Ichigo and therefore should not be a couple with him or is shy around him and doesn't make the relationship engaging, but when the same dynamic occurs with Hinata and Naruto they declare that as "the two flirting and outright declaring their undying love for each other". the differences is not the issue it is the hypocrisy and double standards

Well, yeah. Ichigo is also not even close to Naruto either and their character are on two different scale. However, I think we can all agree that when it comes to character dynamic in general, IchiRuki is closer to NaruSaku and IchiHime is closer to NaruHina. Orihime is more along the archtype of Hinata with being the soft spoken, cute, Kuudere type of character with Ruki being more like Sakura who is tomboyish, outspoken, and a tsundere. (Doesn't help that Orihime and Hinata use the same VA) However, Orihime is a far more realistic representation of the character type especially when she can develops naturally and gradually.

And considering the differences between the two, it proves even more the bias they occur. Now I considered IchiHime rushed, but not a retcon. We could have used more moments with them to develop them, but obviously Kubo could not expand for some reason. Yet, it is still more plausible than NaruHina.
 

Orihime is nowhere near the low level that Hinata is...and yet she is considered the more pathetic, useless, and shy one?

It is just downright ridiculous and proves for a fact that Hinata's fanbase are toxic and tunneled visioned, but ONLY with Hinata....no other anime gets this same kind of treatment. In fact, they downright HATE the shy characters and call them annoying, but when it comes to Naruto...."Hinata is so great. Sakura is so bad."

"Sakura is abusive"
Compared to who? Compared to Taiga and Narusegawa she is very tame.
 

 

 

 

 

 

[Phantom_999]

 

 

Well, yeah. Ichigo is also not even close to Naruto either and their character are on two different scale. However, I think we can all agree that when it comes to character dynamic in general, IchiRuki is closer to NaruSaku and IchiHime is closer to NaruHina. Orihime is more along the archtype of Hinata with being the soft spoken, cute, Kuudere type of character with Ruki being more like Sakura who is tomboyish, outspoken, and a tsundere. (Doesn't help that Orihime and Hinata use the same VA) However, Orihime is a far more realistic representation of the character type especially when she can develops naturally and gradually.

And considering the differences between the two, it proves even more the bias they occur. Now I considered IchiHime rushed, but not a retcon. We could have used more moments with them to develop them, but obviously Kubo could not expand for some reason. Yet, it is still more plausible than NaruHina.
 

Orihime is nowhere near the low level that Hinata is...and yet she is considered the more pathetic, useless, and shy one?

It is just downright ridiculous and proves for a fact that Hinata's fanbase are toxic and tunneled visioned, but ONLY with Hinata....no other anime gets this same kind of treatment. In fact, they downright HATE the shy characters and call them annoying, but when it comes to Naruto...."Hinata is so great. Sakura is so bad."

"Sakura is abusive"
Compared to who? Compared to Taiga and Narusegawa she is very tame.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why, compared to Hinata of course!!!!!  

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I stand by the belief that first impressions are what really soured people on Sakura. Some people make up their minds and never change them.

It's easy to like Hinata because she pretty much does nothing. Sakura has faults.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I stand by the belief that first impressions are what really soured people on Sakura. Some people make up their minds and never change them.

It's easy to like Hinata because she pretty much does nothing. Sakura has faults.

 

And people don't like to be reminded of characters having faults without thinking of how they'd grow because they'd prefer some things to be done a snap.

[DrK]

In my (extreme, and likely insane as you know) opinion, it's actually not possible for someone who (earnestly) likes Hinata to come to like Sakura. I honestly don't think Sakura would be worth much at all without her development, while Hinata doesn't have any.

 

So it's irreconcilable.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I know people who like both Hinata and Sakura but they have caveats. "Hinata doesnt really do much but in my headcanon..." ect.

As for me I genuinely like Sakura, including her faults and even at her worst...even when she's being a complete dumbass in 693+

I hate that Burito exists but the one thing I can get behind is that Sakura would be a pro single mom. So there is that.

[DrK]

I know people who like both Hinata and Sakura but they have caveats. "Hinata doesnt really do much but in my headcanon..." ect.

As for me I genuinely like Sakura, including her faults and even at her worst...even when she's being a complete dumbass in 693+

I hate that Burito exists but the one thing I can get behind is that Sakura would be a pro single mom. So there is that.

Well I guess I meant more in the sense of being a 'fan'... Like I guess I like Kiba, but I can't say I ever really wanted him to have anything or become more important. So Hinata despite being flat could have been likeable as a shallow character in the K11.

 

As far as the other thing... I can't imagine that there was anyone (not referring to just NS people) who actually WANTED to see that. But I know what you mean.

[VanitasDS76491]

Well, yeah. Ichigo is also not even close to Naruto either and their character are on two different scale. However, I think we can all agree that when it comes to character dynamic in general, IchiRuki is closer to NaruSaku and IchiHime is closer to NaruHina. Orihime is more along the archtype of Hinata with being the soft spoken, cute, Kuudere type of character with Ruki being more like Sakura who is tomboyish, outspoken, and a tsundere. (Doesn't help that Orihime and Hinata use the same VA) However, Orihime is a far more realistic representation of the character type especially when she can develops naturally and gradually.
And considering the differences between the two, it proves even more the bias they occur. Now I considered IchiHime rushed, but not a retcon. We could have used more moments with them to develop them, but obviously Kubo could not expand for some reason. Yet, it is still more plausible than NaruHina.
 
Orihime is nowhere near the low level that Hinata is...and yet she is considered the more pathetic, useless, and shy one?
It is just downright ridiculous and proves for a fact that Hinata's fanbase are toxic and tunneled visioned, but ONLY with Hinata....no other anime gets this same kind of treatment. In fact, they downright HATE the shy characters and call them annoying, but when it comes to Naruto...."Hinata is so great. Sakura is so bad."
"Sakura is abusive"
Compared to who? Compared to Taiga and Narusegawa she is very tame.

Agreed James though orihime was never nervous around ichigo save 1 or 2 times in the fullbring arc and final arc.
Also I think Stephanie put more effort into playing orihime than hinata hell she puts more effort into voice rin and Naruto sexy Justu mode than hinata,
Plus orihime has the advantage of being said main character and without her the series can't really progress, sure I wish she did more in the series though she has 1 win where hinata never got a win.

[DrK]

Plus orihime has the advantage of being said main character and without her the series can't really progress, sure I wish she did more in the series though she has 1 win where hinata never got a win.

I know that her loss to Rock (not Lee, but an actual rock) seems bad, but didn't she defeat a white Zetsu at some point?

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Well I guess I meant more in the sense of being a 'fan'... Like I guess I like Kiba, but I can't say I ever really wanted him to have anything or become more important. So Hinata despite being flat could have been likeable as a shallow character in the K11.
 
As far as the other thing... I can't imagine that there was anyone (not referring to just NS people) who actually WANTED to see that. But I know what you mean.

It's not what I wanted, but it's what I got so i have to live with it...I just find solace in the fact that Sakura can raise a kid by herself better than Naruto and Hinata can together lmao.

[Phantom_999]

I stand by the belief that first impressions are what really soured people on Sakura. Some people make up their minds and never change them.
It's easy to like Hinata because she pretty much does nothing. Sakura has faults.

First impressions of Sakura also very much stand out because Naruto had a terrible and unloved childhood, so that I am sure made the hate worse. If Naruto was never a social pariah to begin and had as normal a childhood as a fictional orphan could have, Hatred of Sakura would not be so extreme, shed be just another tsundere to the mix. Im sure that is the reason because other tsunderes dont have it this bad. So where does the double standard come from, right?

Edited by Phantom_999, 29 January 2020 - 06:57 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

I know that her loss to Rock (not Lee, but an actual rock) seems bad, but didn't she defeat a white Zetsu at some point?

That's not anything special since white zetsu is just a footsolider like a cog or shadow heartless so I don't count those as a win.

[tricksie]

I stand by the belief that first impressions are what really soured people on Sakura. Some people make up their minds and never change them.

It's easy to like Hinata because she pretty much does nothing. Sakura has faults.

 

First impressions of Sakura also very much stand out because Naruto had a terrible and unloved childhood, so that I am sure made the hate worse. If Naruto was never a social pariah to begin and had as normal a childhood as a fictional orphan could have, Hatred of Sakura would not be so extreme, shed be just another tsundere to the mix. Im sure that is the reason because other tsunderes dont have it this bad. So where does the double standard come from, right?

 

I see two problems with Sakura's character/story and why people didn't like her.

 

First, her story never gets finished. She has as good arc and is an active part of Team 7, all the way up through the 'thank you' hug scene in Shippuden. But after that, her story completely flatlines. There is no more growth, no more challenge. Her confession? Just a plot device to move Naruto along after Sasuke. It changed nothing for either Naruto or Sakura. Kishimoto leaves Sakura with all the desperation and bad decisions and scuttled confession, and never writes her learning from it, or there being a positive outcome. Sakura is never shown turning Naruto's head. He still is as focused on Sasuke as ever, until the very end. Sakura's story is never finished.

 

Second, Sakura will forever be unfairly compared to Hinata. Not compared to the best version of what her own character could have been, as the single heroine and love interest of the story. Though it didn't start out this way, by the end, Sakura's character is placed in stark comparison to Hinata's character, over and over and over again. And there is literally not enough about Hinata to even dislike. Hinata's whole sick focus is on Naruto. And she is rewarded for that. Kishimoto draws her in flattering, wide-eyed poses, and she is constanly shown as fearful/worried and needing to be saved. Even her brief flashes of bravery are tied to Naruto somehow. She is shown as the damsel in distress, and she is given pretty speeches about how great Naruto is when she is saved. Every friggin time. Sakura gets none of this treatment. Even though she is braver, more heroic, more kind-hearted and would literally die to save Naruto (not trip over a rock).

 

I don't think the problem is with Sakura. If you took Hinata out of the story (which literally wouldn't change the story a bit), then there is no one else for Sakura to be compared to. And her efforts would shine out like they should. But instead, Kishimoto put a big red arrow  flashing "love interest" over Hinata and gave her sappy lines only adoring Naruto over everything and everyone else (including her dead cousin), and people fell for it.