54175 replies to this topic

[Illnevergiveup3]

That'll depend on A:  If he has a willingness to actually undo the ending.  And B: If his editors don't hound him.   The apparent lack of editors working on Boruto since its serialization as Bail reported may mean that he could potentially insert a plot-device like I.T. in the manga withou disruption, but that all depends on if he wants to at this point.   Again, I'll wait for summaries to see what he'll actually do, but I honestly doubt he'll go that far as all of the gaslighting he's done since Naruto's conclusion in interviews and the like.

 

 

I'd say don't hold your horses guys.

 

I don't think he ever wants to get his hands dirty with pairing drama so I think he'll avoid it at all costs.

 

At most, what he'll do he'll target SasuNaru fanbase, like he did with the Boruto movie.

 

But NaruSaku? I don't think he'll ever return to make it happen...

 

Especially since the old fanbase has moved on to better things.

 

 

Yes, exactly. There's such little chance of that happening that it's a bit more likely, if he were to go down that route, that he'd do it after Boruto.

Forget IT, honestly. It wouldn't achieve anything. Amongst many other things, he would have to bring Neji back due to the reason why he died, so a potential do-over would have to start from 600 for it to mean anything. He would also have to come out and say that all of this was not his intentions and name the guilty (SP, Shueisha, rotten editors, himself just giving up etc.)...which they might take offence too. Unless they're in on it for the money and are willing to take the hit, I can't imagine it happening. Oh, and like you mentioned, let's not forget about the extremely contradicting interviews he gave that sounded like he was reading a teleprompter from SP themselves. I can imagine invalidating those would be relatively easy given how disgustingly false they were.

Let's say in theory he did go down this path in the future. I would hope that it creates a precedent for others to not fall down to the same fate, popular or not. To take care of their mental health. Highlighting problems within the industry could either backfire or start a well needed conversation.

 

 

BoltXSalad (which to them is NS 2.0, doesn't matter what we think to them so don't have a conniption over it) is the only pairing that's going to happen in this manga. Remember Samurai 8 where he spent 10 chapters going "I'm not switching love interest again." That's not, "I shall restore Sakura as the love interest when I get the chance." That's, "I don't want to deal with pairing conflicts or editors forcing me to change the story/pairing to please one group, again."

 

Sakura existed to please his wife after a certain point. They had move past the feud the ending caused already. Bringing up NS again would just lead to old wound being reopened.

 

NS would only happen as a last desperate ploy especially since he's now required to write the sequel.

 

Oh, when Naruto dies he going to have final words for Bolt (father-son) Nail (role model) and Sasuke (not gay brotherly moments of not gay). At worse even if he is spiteful he might have Naruto say he always wanted to kiss her cute forehead. They will likely all assume he means his wife while Sasuke wonders if he was talking about his wife. That's it.

sooo, which one of y'all getting me that celebratory drink when what I say comes true? I'll take a celebratory cake and 50 push-ups from you Bail. =D

[TheFirstEvil100]

If Kishi wants to undo all of this he will need to call out both SP and the NH fans, that is all I can think of right now.

[Illnevergiveup3]

If Kishi wants to undo all of this he will need to call out both SP and the NH fans, that is all I can think of right now.

I agree with that. That would be the start. As I've been saying, he just has to find his balls to go about actually doing it.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

I'd say don't hold your horses guys.

 

I don't think he ever wants to get his hands dirty with pairing drama so I think he'll avoid it at all costs.

 

At most, what he'll do he'll target SasuNaru fanbase, like he did with the Boruto movie.

 

But NaruSaku? I don't think he'll ever return to make it happen...

 

Especially since the old fanbase has moved on to better things.

I mean, first ever post I had on this forum was about how we had bulletproof logic behind NS as in plot/characters/message in it. But here we are where manga did a 180 turn, and now has trash tier sequel.

So never say never, but yeah, I agree, whats done is done, fixing this franchise is a pretty big thing if you consider it, only possible way I think is ending Burito manga and treating it as GT in Dragon Ball, while changing/correcting original in some what be it retconing ch.700 or final or just changing it alltogether.

So, bottom line is miracles do happen (look at NH becoming a real thing) but not always how you want them, so becareful what you wish for.

And I'm for sure not a person to belive in any possitive way of Kishimoto's writting.

Also remember that person that suggested love triangle or even Sakura in story is long time gone, same with people in SP who were creating those blessed moments of NS.

Edited by NarutoUzumaki01, 25 November 2020 - 08:55 AM.

[Kagomaru]

Oh by the way found out why Kishimoto was put back on Boruto. Kodaichi the previous writer was rude to his co-workers so they fired him. Don't know the details beyond that.

I forgot to comment on this, but man, it does not pay to be the supposed "successor" of someone's manga series.  First, It's been reported since last year that Akira Toriyama has, more or less, walked away from Toyatarou on collaborating on the DBS manga to work on drafting scripts for the next Broly movie and Toei episodes for DBS(which pretty much answers which canon takes priority), while Toyatarou has been free to do what he wants with the manga. Then you got this situation with Kodaichi and Kishimoto. 

[Chatte]

sooo, which one of y'all getting me that celebratory drink when what I say comes true? I'll take a celebratory cake and 50 push-ups from you Bail. =D

I'll do it.

 

If by any way Kishimoto resorts to a move that makes NaruSaku canon or not necessarily canon, but put his seal of approval that that is the way he wanted to go, I'll buy you a drink from somewhere and send it at your door. Shipping taxes and everything included!

 

You'll have to take into consideration I'm from Romania so I'll probably only be able to do it from Amazon or something.

 

We'll figure that out. However, I'll do it. If it comes down to that, I'll stand defeated in my beliefs and do it, lol.

 

I mean, first ever post I had on this forum was about how we had bulletproof logic behind NS as in plot/characters/message in it. But here we are where manga did a 180 turn, and now has trash tier sequel.

So never say never, but yeah, I agree, whats done is done, fixing this franchise is a pretty big thing if you consider it, only possible way I think is ending Burito manga and treating it as GT in Dragon Ball, while changing/correcting original in some what be it retconing ch.700 or final or just changing it alltogether.

So, bottom line is miracles do happen (look at NH becoming a real thing) but not always how you want them, so becareful what you wish for.

And I'm for sure not a person to belive in any possitive way of Kishimoto's writting.

Also remember that person that suggested love triangle or even Sakura in story is long time gone, same with people in SP who were creating those blessed moments of NS.

 

I do agree with you and I get the point from where you're coming but we must recalll the context in which the NH/SS miracle happened: they had so loud fanbases that all they did was to scream gimmie Nh/SS.

 

They wrote to Kishimoto, filled the internet with Sakura hate and everything else. He was pressured into doing these things.

 

We don't do that as a fanbase, so why the need to do it? Also, this could only mean that it will incite the old NH/SS fans who are still supporting his material to backlash at him.

 

I don't think the man would want that.

 

But that's just me. Maybe it's because with me is a matter of trust. And Kishimoto has been breaking mine gravely.

 

And I am pretty picky about these things. 

 

With me there's fool me once, you're gone. I am not giving ya the chance to fool me twice.

[Chatte]

I'll also chip in lol.

I don't think it was only the fans, while they obviously played a part (since the weakest ones are always shouting their messed up beliefs on the internet - that's goes for most minority groups, not just NH/SS fans) there were other factors. Perhaps the 'fans' (and I use that term loosely) were a tipping point for Kishimoto to just give in to what was already being pushed onto him by other actors close to him.

They could have wrote as much as they wanted, if the higher ups didn't feel the same way, it wouldn't have happened. I can't believe that at the end of the day they went with the not-so-financially-supportive international base (probably targeting North America) over the actual home base.

This just reminded me of something that I was thinking about, how some of the international base was really awful in not really acknowledging (based on their actions) that this is a Japanese series, which means Japanese story tropes, actions, cultural references etc. All of this 'omg why is she hitting him, ABuSe!!!!' etc. etc. I really feel like there's a superiority/ownership complex when it comes to some things. It's like once it became popular over here people somehow lost the ability to understand things through the lens of its original country (Japan). I don't know if it has to do with the lack of embracing other cultures or just plain willful ignorance that this isn't American or *insert nationality here*. If anyone wants to chime into this feel free. I also don't mean to be offensive with this, I also live in North America.

Overall, it's sad that the actual author was taken over just like that. I pray that this never happens with any manga again. Though it was the perfect recipe for disaster. SP was also definitely involved, look at how they finally got to make their Hinata-centric movie right after they got what they wanted. They went ballistic with it. They changed everything about Hinata to have her be more appealing to the audience, continued to trash Sakura and even changed the animation style to their liking. The only positive thing out of all of this was the backlash from the home fanbase. I remember all of the interviews and how they were so defensive on Kishimoto's end. Was nice to see that things weren't too well received over there.

 

Oh definitely I agree with you.

 

And you know, now that you talk about this, I've always thought about this fact myself - how Western fanbase just shat on the very symbol of Japan with Sakura's character.

 

They felt entitled to absolutely disconsider everything that belongs to the Japanese culture because they didn't like it. 

 

Well, it's not YOUR story to begin with? It's not YOUR house, you DON'T make the rules?

 

You either follow or leave. No one is obliged to accommodate your entitled self.

 

But yeah, I've often thought about this perspective myself.

 

I wonder who exactly pushed Hinata so much to the front and for what reason though?

 

Because in Kishimoto's story it was clear she wasn't more than a Lee in character status.

 

People always try to put her on a pedestal or use the but Naruto cried for her after she confessed, bohoo.

 

Sakura also cried for Lee, after he fought Gaara, and previously protected her in the same fashion Hinata did with Naruto.

 

Your point is?

 

I swear these people are just so fixated in their own beliefs that reality seems but a mirage...

[Bail o' Lies]

Overall, it's sad that the actual author was taken over just like that. I pray that this never happens with any manga again. Though it was the perfect recipe for disaster. SP was also definitely involved, look at how they finally got to make their Hinata-centric movie right after they got what they wanted. They went ballistic with it. They changed everything about Hinata to have her be more appealing to the audience, continued to trash Sakura and even changed the animation style to their liking. The only positive thing out of all of this was the backlash from the home fanbase. I remember all of the interviews and how they were so defensive on Kishimoto's end. Was nice to see that things weren't too well received over there.

Ultimately, without SP and the new editors nH would have never happened. They were the ones truly pushing for it, and they were the ones convincing the exec how profitable it would be; and it sequel will be too.

[Phantom_999]

Well in any case, I'm gonna assume that since the switch between writers, the general plot line for this story arc will remain unchanged. where it is going from here on out, well whatever happens happens.  Meaningful messages and morals in the story I have long stopped caring about. For shipping, it is not even about Naruto anymore so I for one am not bothering, and any that involves Boruto will either be a obnoxious hypocrisy in my opinion (Sarada) or a laughable excuse to not be hypocritical but face backlash since they are ironically pushing for Sarada (Sumire A.K.A. the Hinata clone). fights scenes will probably be the highlight I guess but there will there will most definitely be no more meaning to it except for upping the threat scale as per usual, and the villains are far beyond boring at this point. All in All I see nothing to be excited about personally, and unless Kishi is doing this as a big middle finger to the state the series has gotten itself in, I don't expect anything like NH divorcing or drastic changes that will make even more fans leave the series (if there are actually any Naruto fans left watching or reading this). I'm just taking this in stride because my expectations for this change is ZERO. 

Edited by Phantom_999, 26 November 2020 - 12:29 AM.

[Dalton.T.R]

You know, for the first time in a long time, I think we have something interesting to talk about again. I find it very hilarious and almost worth keeping up to tabs with the fact that Kishimoto is being recalled to work on Boruto, and yet the fans don't want him back! 

 

Talk about a failure of epic proportions! 

 

I haven't kept up with this site for a while now, but based off what I've read so far, if Kishimoto's name carries no weight as a mangaka artist/writer anymore, he only has himself to blame. We saw with his Samurai8 manga that no one wants anything to do with him anymore. If you ask me, the damage has already been done. If he wants to rebuild his reputation, he's standing in the rubble of a house that was demolished by a nuclear bomb. 

 

Can he rebuild his reputation? Not to his former glory. In fact, I'd say he'd be lucky to reach even 40% of what he used to be. The ONLY way he can secure a future for himself is to at least TRY to right his wrongs. IF that means re-doing Naruto to some degree, so be it. But he has one hell of a steep mountain to climb in front of him. 

[Kagomaru]

I decided to look further into the situation over why Kodachi was fired.   It's apparently a myriad of factors.   Aside from the low sales in Japan(Boruto actually has better sales overseas),  Studio Pierrot's director has levied several complaints about him due to the glacial pace of the manga and over the anime(since he was the supervisor for it); so, it seems like SP was having internal disputes with him behind the scenes.  Also, the incident with his co-workers wasn't a one-time affair.  It turns out that he was always verbally abusive and belligerent to his staff, and, if rumor is correct, he got into a flame war with one of his critics online that got out of control.  As for the Japanese Boruto fanbase,  they're worried that Kishimoto's approach will potentially ruin the story (As if the story was anything worth saving to begin with lol) and that his past treatment of female characters will impact Sarada, not because of any fear of mangaka getting replaced.  Another reason they have no confidence in him is because of Samurai 8's cancellation.

 

So yeah, Kishimoto's involvement does seem like a desperate, last-minute effort to save Boruto.

Edited by Kagomaru, 26 November 2020 - 06:38 PM.

[Derock]

I decided to look further into the situation over why Kodachi was fired.   It's apparently a myriad of factors.   Aside from the low sales in Japan(Boruto actually has better sales overseas),  Studio Pierrot's director has levied several complaints about him due to the glacial pace of the manga and over the anime(since he was the supervisor for it); so, it seems like SP was having internal disputes with him behind the scenes.  Also, the incident with his co-workers wasn't a one-time affair.  It turns out that he was always verbally abusive and belligerent to his staff, and, if rumor is correct, he got into a flame war with one of his critics online that got out of control.  As for the Japanese Boruto fanbase,  they're worried that Kishimoto's approach will potentially ruin the story (As if the story was anything worth saving to begin with lol) and that his past treatment of female characters will impact Sarada, not because of any fear of mangaka getting replaced.  Another reason they have no confidence in him is because of Samurai 8's cancellation.

 

So yeah, Kishimoto's involvement does seem like a desperate, last-minute effort to save Boruto.

 

On bolded: I can see why. I just signed up for Hulu for a Black Friday deal for 12 months and lo and behold, when I selected the Anime category, they were trying to recommend me the trash (NOT happening, I bypass that and selected My Hero Academia). 

 

Yeah, the whole situation is basically a desperation.  I thought the Japanese doesn't care for the spin-off. Let it go into the trash as it should been.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

This just reminded me of something that I was thinking about, how some of the international base was really awful in not really acknowledging (based on their actions) that this is a Japanese series, which means Japanese story tropes, actions, cultural references etc. All of this 'omg why is she hitting him, ABuSe!!!!' etc. etc. I really feel like there's a superiority/ownership complex when it comes to some things. It's like once it became popular over here people somehow lost the ability to understand things through the lens of its original country (Japan). I don't know if it has to do with the lack of embracing other cultures or just plain willful ignorance that this isn't American or *insert nationality here*. If anyone wants to chime into this feel free. I also don't mean to be offensive with this, I also live in North America.

For me it's plain idiotic, with those "abuse" comments, one thing is saying that it's overused trope, which it wasn't in that time and especially in Naruto, other is being blatantly biased against character, which was the case, those people never cared for story/characters other than wishfulfilment of Hinata.

Edited by NarutoUzumaki01, 26 November 2020 - 09:28 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

I decided to look further into the situation over why Kodachi was fired.   It's apparently a myriad of factors.   Aside from the low sales in Japan(Boruto actually has better sales overseas),  Studio Pierrot's director has levied several complaints about him due to the glacial pace of the manga and over the anime(since he was the supervisor for it); so, it seems like SP was having internal disputes with him behind the scenes.  Also, the incident with his co-workers wasn't a one-time affair.  It turns out that he was always verbally abusive and belligerent to his staff, and, if rumor is correct, he got into a flame war with one of his critics online that got out of control.  As for the Japanese Boruto fanbase,  they're worried that Kishimoto's approach will potentially ruin the story (As if the story was anything worth saving to begin with lol) and that his past treatment of female characters will impact Sarada, not because of any fear of mangaka getting replaced.  Another reason they have no confidence in him is because of Samurai 8's cancellation.

 

So yeah, Kishimoto's involvement does seem like a desperate, last-minute effort to save Boruto.

Well, thank you for doing the work I did not want to do. Though most of this I had already either guess or speculated. 

 

So, let's go through them.

 

Low Sales in Japan, though apparently better sales internationally. Well, I wonder how good those sells are but we all know that is the legacy of Naruto not anything of Boruto's doing. Though obviously this wouldn't provide him with much protection for his job. I certainly didn't help Samurai 8.

 

SP being pissed at his slow pace. Well, again, the anime has gone through 175 episodes by this point. Not even 50 of them are based on manga chapters, and those that are were based off material Kishimoto made before Kodachi took over. I'll be impressed if they have gotten ten episodes out of his material. Then looks at my summaries where one of my constant complaints it that it takes chapters for anything to happen. Information that should take a sentence to explain to the reader instead eat up pages in exposition. Scenes that should be a few pages are the entire chapter. Events that should be resolved in a single chapter take up at least 5. Also, again, they canceled Bleach because they got sick of doing constant filler (I think this director is still the same guy) the only thing that's keeping Boruto going is they have nothing that can replace it.

 

He was the supervisor for the anime to make sure everything was (really its more can be called) canon, and because kishimoto didn't want to do it. Though that probably means he was making it go slow in that as well or probably giving them really bad ideas. Again by episodes 175 of Naruto they had long gone into the great filler arc; in other words the manga story of Naruto part 1 was done by this point, they still haven't even started into Boruto's actual plot.

 

Internal disputes. "Hey Ko, the manga needs to be going fast through the story and we can expanded upon stuff in the anime." "But I don't feel like writing that fast just do more filler."

 

His personality. He was hired to write the manga because he was the light novelist of those working on the Naruto light novels that said, yes. They really didn't check if he was able to do the work for Boruto, or would be great to work along with.

 

In conflict with one of his critics. This was not me, though I kind want to find out who the critic was and what he said. I kind of wish my jab of the Never-Ending Prologue was more wide spread.

 

Japanese worries. Well Salad is the most popular character out of the new cast, and one of the few that is actually likable. The thing is this shouldn't be much of an issue. Kodachi barely used Salad and at best she was Sakura 2.0 with all the flaws removed. Kishimoto did fine with her in the both gaiden which is what her current personality is based on and the movie. Though this shows also how far his star has fallen that their reaction is, "oh no he going to ruin the one likable character and likely the entire manga."

 

Seems like it. 

 

On bolded: I can see why. I just signed up for Hulu for a Black Friday deal for 12 months and lo and behold, when I selected the Anime category, they were trying to recommend me that trash (NOT happening, I bypass that and selected My Hero Academia). 

 

Yeah, the whole situation is basically a desperation.  I thought the Japanese doesn't care for the spin-off. Let it go into the trash as it should been.

It still has some sales. It basically average manga sales over there. What were the top recommends and what were their views?

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 01 December 2020 - 06:34 AM.

[Phantom_999]

I decided to look further into the situation over why Kodachi was fired.   It's apparently a myriad of factors.   Aside from the low sales in Japan(Boruto actually has better sales overseas),  Studio Pierrot's director has levied several complaints about him due to the glacial pace of the manga and over the anime(since he was the supervisor for it); so, it seems like SP was having internal disputes with him behind the scenes.  Also, the incident with his co-workers wasn't a one-time affair.  It turns out that he was always verbally abusive and belligerent to his staff, and, if rumor is correct, he got into a flame war with one of his critics online that got out of control.  As for the Japanese Boruto fanbase,  they're worried that Kishimoto's approach will potentially ruin the story (As if the story was anything worth saving to begin with lol) and that his past treatment of female characters will impact Sarada, not because of any fear of mangaka getting replaced.  Another reason they have no confidence in him is because of Samurai 8's cancellation.

 

So yeah, Kishimoto's involvement does seem like a desperate, last-minute effort to save Boruto.

 

OMG It's worse than I thought. So Karma DOES exist.  Well again I'm not wishing this on anyone but you reap what you sow as I said.

Edited by Phantom_999, 27 November 2020 - 12:55 AM.

[TheFirstEvil100]

I said it before Kishi wants the old readers back; he needs to do something public saying that NaruHina as a couple is nothing but trash that he messed up or blame SP tell people that they made Sakura look bad.

 

That is one another thing I think Kishi will need to say or do is call out the Hinata and how bad they are as fans that they didn't care for Naruto or the story.

[ree]

Mmm MHA is launching his 3rd movie, One Piece is getting to his end so sales will grow TOEI is making really fine. But in SP we can't say the same his animes aren't doing so well as they were used to, so they are so bad to hold on to Boruto because if they cancel it so they just gonna have Black Clover to compete with so as far as I know SP is a important studio so don't see it with good eyes.

[Phantom_999]

All of this talk about about Black clover not meeting expectations as an anime is making me sad actually, It is one of my all time favorites right now. True I've being saying kitten about how it was making fillers right at the start, but I love it none the less. Well the manga is still amazing if you ask me and anyone that gives it a chance won't be disappointed. (I hope) 

Edited by Phantom_999, 27 November 2020 - 09:46 PM.

[Dalton.T.R]

Maybe Kishi could take lessons from Sword Art Online. Now THAT was a damn good anime! 

[Phantom_999]

I know that tis topic has also been beaten to death, but I must bring it up again. Naruto was stated to have only a shallow crush on Sakura for a shallow reason. So what makes his "love for Hinata" so special then if he is sexist enough to see the girl he likes as only a trophy? That attitude also extended to Hinata then, because He wasn't fighting to stop the moon from crashing into the world, he was fighting to take Hinata back from her forced marriage. Like a trophy. I'm just saying that if the whole basis for why Naruto moved on from Sakura is that sad and worthless of a reason, what makes his love for Hinata any less shallow? That is just plain hypocrisy.

Edited by Phantom_999, 28 November 2020 - 01:19 PM.