137 replies to this topic

[Dreamer]

the thing that makes the parallel i drew interesting is that we cant even count the cursed seal. the seal doesnt influence him as much as people think it does. And as Soupy says its not even a factor anymore.

what draws the two into a parallel to me is the choices made. Naruto chose to use a power that was dangerous and unstable, and in the process hurt Sakura. he may not had swung the tail itself, but he was in that position because of his impatience and his choice to tap power.

Sasuke put Karin in that position by choosing vengance over all else. He sacraficed her on the altar of that vengance as readilly as he would have sacraficed Konoha itself.

in the end both chose and both either paid ((in narutos case)) or will pay((in Sasukes)) a price for it.

Vengance isnt a demon liek kyubi no i agree with that. But it is a demon of its own sort. Kakashi as much as said so ((read not a literal one but a metaphorical)) but a demon of choices and and emptiness. one that leads the person who chooses it to walk down darker and darker paths.

Why are you saying Naruto chose to use Kyuubi: Was it his fault the tailed beast was sealed inside him? Isn't it a daily struggle to keep his anger and emotions under control? Last but not least I recall Naruto lost consciousness when he went four-tails, so I don't see how it was entirely his fault Sakura got hurt. Was it not Sakura the one who let Kabuto get underneath her skin like he's done before in part I and Sakura recklessly jumped out in 4 tail Kyuubi/Naruto's way?

Edited by Uzumakikage, 07 February 2010 - 03:04 AM.

[catsi563]

why am I saying it? because its true. yamato said it himself when he told naruto how she got injured. you got impatient didnt you.

not his fault it was sealed but Jiraiya himself told him not to use that power and he did anyways. So no its not entirely his fault.

but he still holds responsibility for it.

but thats not whats important. Whats important is how he dealt with it which is by feeling that pain and working harder to supress and control that power.

the reason i brought the parallel into this was Sasukes reaction to injuring Karin has yet to be seen. At least not the aftermath as in whether he will show any regret or not.

but also more importantly is that both Karin and Sakura now show scars from their precious person and how Karin well react is also at question

Sakura became more protective of Naruto after her injury how will karin deal with this.

[Serenity Namikaze]

Why are you saying Naruto chose to use Kyuubi: Was it his fault the tailed beast was sealed inside him? Isn't it a daily struggle to keep his anger and emotions under control? Last but not least I recall Naruto lost consciousness when he went four-tails, so I don't see how it was entirely his fault Sakura got hurt. Was it not Sakura the one who let Kabuto get underneath her skin like he's done before in part I and Sakura recklessly jumped out in 4 tail Kyuubi/Naruto's way?

Naruto really did chose willingly to cross the barrier and embrace the Kyuubi's power. In this desperate time, he didn't know what to do, he did let the worst of his emotion controlling him and at that time, yes I could say that Naruto and Sasuke were alike. Naruto want to make every sacrifice and he would submit to anything if it mean rescuing sasuke. Also, when he did make that statement, he was already in a submit mode, he never thought of Sakura or anyone at that moment. However, what make Naruto and Sasuke different is that Naruto have realize the consequence of using that desperate measure (with the help of Yamato-taichou), that he can't let himself submit to the Kyuubi's power because, using that power, even if he could have a better chance for rescuing Sasuke, would also mean hurting other precious people near him.

At this point, Naruto have chosen a different path then Sasuke. Before, both wanted to use anything if it mean achieving the goal. After the Heaven & earth bridge incident, Naruto make a promise to never take any desperate measure while Sasuke did and still have that memento.

As for Sakura's injuries, Naruto in 4 tails never initial the 'attack' on Sakura. Like you mention, it was Sakura who, recklessly, jump out on Naruto/Kyuubi so, technically, we could say that it was Sakura's fault. So far, We never see Naruto/Kyuubi attack first his compagnon. Of course, that doesn't mean that it CAN'T happen (like Yamato-Taichou and Jiraya have said, when he's in that state, he doesn't make the difference between friends or enemies)

the reason i brought the parallel into this was Sasukes reaction to injuring Karin has yet to be seen. At least not the aftermath as in whether he will show any regret or not.

I think that Sasuke reaction was show in page 3, chapter 481. He was wathching Danzou walking with a smile on his face ( can I say that this smile seem evil ) and didn't look back at Karin. To me, it pretty clear that he doesn't care but, that my personal opinion.

Edited by silverserenity, 07 February 2010 - 04:17 AM.

[naruto-z]

I totally agreed on that. Naruto will have, for the sake of the future outcome against Sasuke, to control his emotion so that he doesn't loose control over Kyuubi. I think that this point is extremely important because we know what make him go on Kyuubi state and it mainly concerning Sasuke. In his first encounter with Sasuke, while he didn't unleash Kyuubi's power, he still had to fight the urge to use it power. It will be fruitless if he have to face both Sasuke and his inner demon. Naruto biggest weakness so far is that he let his emotion get the best of him and that lead to reckless move without any strategy.

yes, i'm just worried that kishi won't take that final step till the end of the manga. It is very possible that that also might happen due to the fact that controlling the kyuubi will be naruto's final bridge to being hokage and powerful enough to defeat madara and more importantly sasuke.

[ciardha]

the reason i brought the parallel into this was Sasukes reaction to injuring Karin has yet to be seen. At least not the aftermath as in whether he will show any regret or not.

No, we saw his reaction in the current chapter. Very cold and mean, shockingly so, even for what we've seen Sasuke do in part 2 of the manga. He has absolutely no regrets about it- he's smirking no less. He chose to do it because he had developed an emotional bond to her- she became a burden, Sasuke's own words. He also said he'd kill anyone who got in the way of his vengeance, something even Orochimaru warned him against. This chapter shows how far Sasuke has sunk into darkness, further than even Danzo or Orochimaru.

[catsi563]

No, we saw his reaction in the current chapter. Very cold and mean, shockingly so, even for what we've seen Sasuke do in part 2 of the manga. He has absolutely no regrets about it- he's smirking no less. He chose to do it because he had developed an emotional bond to her- she became a burden, Sasuke's own words. He also said he'd kill anyone who got in the way of his vengeance, something even Orochimaru warned him against. This chapter shows how far Sasuke has sunk into darkness, further than even Danzo or Orochimaru.

To clarify I should say I that I want to see whether he will show even a hint of regret about Karins fate at all, he looked cold and mean sure but thats with the adrenaline flowing and in the heat of the moment.

But what about after when Madara takes him away. He will cooldown and then what? will he feel nothing at all simply regarding her as a burden and one hes discarded?

or will he think back on what happend between Karin and him ((the infamous moment mentioned by Suigetsu)) and will he feel something for her, regret, pain, lonliness??

what will he feel when the fire stops burning or at least slows down to a dull burn? We know when madara next stokes that flame of rage to a fever pitch hell forget it all or not think of it.

but when hes cooled down the ghosts are going to come back, we already know this from the aftermath of the itachi fight as he remebered Itachi crying.

its his reaction to Karin that will be veeeery interesting

[Serenity Namikaze]

yes, i'm just worried that kishi won't take that final step till the end of the manga. It is very possible that that also might happen due to the fact that controlling the kyuubi will be naruto's final bridge to being hokage and powerful enough to defeat madara and more importantly sasuke.

I know what you mean, I'm worried about that too. I still think that controlling the kyuubi (or at least, managing his emotion so that he doesn't have to fight Kyuubi as well as Sasuke and Madara) is essential before the big fight. In the battle Pein vs Naruto, let not forget that, if Yondaime wouldn't have been there to stop Naruto, we would have seen the kyuubi in his final state and....let just say that it would have been a rampage worst that the Uchiha Massacre. Now that the Yondaime will no longer be able to interfere, the Shodai hokage necklace is crash, the only thing, so far, that could help is Yamato-taichou (and without the necklace, it will be more difficult).

To clarify I should say I that I want to see whether he will show even a hint of regret about Karins fate at all, he looked cold and mean sure but thats with the adrenaline flowing and in the heat of the moment.

But what about after when Madara takes him away. He will cooldown and then what? will he feel nothing at all simply regarding her as a burden and one hes discarded?

or will he think back on what happend between Karin and him ((the infamous moment mentioned by Suigetsu)) and will he feel something for her, regret, pain, lonliness??

what will he feel when the fire stops burning or at least slows down to a dull burn? We know when madara next stokes that flame of rage to a fever pitch hell forget it all or not think of it.

but when hes cooled down the ghosts are going to come back, we already know this from the aftermath of the itachi fight as he remebered Itachi crying.

its his reaction to Karin that will be veeeery interesting

Only time will tell but, if Sasuke smirk after he pierce her and that he was looking at Danzou walking away instead of Karin, I would say that Sasuke will show no regret. As for Itachi, it was different situation. Sasuke did cry because of what Madara told him about Itachi, because he was starting to remember memories that, so far, have been block because he was to focus on hating Itachi, because, in the end, his whole viewpoint about Itachi have a big fat lie. His whole existence since then was meaningless.

I don't say that, at some point, he didn't felt 'grateful' with the new bond that he formed with Karin, Suigetsu and Juugo (ex : rescuing karin against Hachibi). However, if he had the bull to say crap like ' you're nothing but a burden if you can be taken hostage' after he wounded her, he will be enough of an a**hole to not caring or having any regret at all.

Edited by silverserenity, 07 February 2010 - 09:11 PM.

[Gena kumo]

Okay, maybe I shouldn't have caught up to this chapter after lagging 10+ chapters behind...

- Seems like the Danzo vs. Sasuke battle was the latest addition to the "Sasuke Pwns" saga (which has WAY too many sequels)

- Sakura is trying to replace Naruto in his "Pwn Vengeance-Seeking Friend" plan, and that's obviously not going to work (because in Kishi's
masculine world, no one can replace Naruto when he's kicking arse. Just think back to Tsunade trying to take down Pain in Naruto's place)

- Kiba's I.Q. goes up a few points so that he can be the "smart one" on the team (Sai is sputtering gibberish, Lee is...well...Lee, and Sakura obviously wants to get herself killed)

- The Sharigan has gotten to the point that it can be powered up exponentially. Time, space, and reality are no longer an issue for the all-powerful "Uchiha and Friends"

Can I be honest and say that I'm getting sick of this nonsense? Where are the Kakashi and Sakura-centric story arcs that Kishi promised us? Or did he just stick them into the blender to shred with the rest of the story line?

On the bright side, Sasuke is no longer a borderline psychopath. He is one (And a stupid one at that. Oops! Killed my vampiric healing source! That might bite back in the future)

[Serenity Namikaze]

Can I be honest and say that I'm getting sick of this nonsense? Where are the Kakashi and Sakura-centric story arcs that Kishi promised us? Or did he just stick them into the blender to shred with the rest of the story line?

On the bright side, Sasuke is no longer a borderline psychopath. He is one (And a stupid one at that. Oops! Killed my vampiric healing source! That might bite back in the future)

nice post Gena...and you're not the only one who is 'sick of this nonsense'. For my part, I'm tired of the whole Uchiha drama and Sasuke on a power trip
I want more development for Kakashi and Sakura like Kishi promised us. Personally, I would be glad to know what on Sakura's head for a change. We need more clarification from OTHER characters like, I don't know, maybe the main character....and I mean Naruto, not Sasuke.

Edited by silverserenity, 07 February 2010 - 09:52 PM.

[naruto-z]

I know what you mean, I'm worried about that too. I still think that controlling the kyuubi (or at least, managing his emotion so that he doesn't have to fight Kyuubi as well as Sasuke and Madara) is essential before the big fight. In the battle Pein vs Naruto, let not forget that, if Yondaime wouldn't have been there to stop Naruto, we would have seen the kyuubi in his final state and....let just say that it would have been a rampage worst that the Uchiha Massacre. Now that the Yondaime will no longer be able to interfere, the Shodai hokage necklace is crash, the only thing, so far, that could help is Yamato-taichou (and without the necklace, it will be more difficult).

so true. right now though, all i really care about is learning more about naruto. there's so much just about naruto's past and family and so much more that we don't know and it really drives me just insane wondering just what the answers are. and after all this sasuke recently...it has only made it worse!

[Gena kumo]

nice post Gena...and you're not the only one who is 'sick of this nonsense'. For my part, I'm tired of the whole Uchiha drama and Sasuke on a power trip
I want more development for Kakashi and Sakura like Kishi promised us. Personally, I would be glad to know what on Sakura's head for a change. We need more clarification from OTHER characters like, I don't know, maybe the main character....and I mean Naruto, not Sasuke.

Agreed. As other members have commented before, it has become highly questionable whether Naruto really the main character or not, according to his involvement (or lack thereof) in the plot (well, at least his name is still in the series title).

I think Kishi has fallen prone to something many writers and artists suffer from, an obsession over the development of a tragic villain (some authors and mangaka obsess over their antagonists and Kishi seems to be no exception. Just look at Itachi's drawn out sob story).

[Serenity Namikaze]

so true. right now though, all i really care about is learning more about naruto. there's so much just about naruto's past and family and so much more that we don't know and it really drives me just insane wondering just what the answers are. and after all this sasuke recently...it has only made it worse!

I couldn't agreed more. Now that we know practically every thing that concern Sasuke's past (and I'm pretty tired of all the repetitive flashback ), how about we, from now on, focus on the main character's past since we don't know that much (beside the obvious). I, like you, am even more curious to know more about Naruto's past since the whole development of Sasuke's past. That would be cool if we could see flashback of Minato and Kushina, knowing a little more about their battle skill (especially Kushina), friend and familly time (well, without Naruto because I doubt that they had that luxury with the Kyuubi attack) etc. Since Kishi made us believe that it could be Kakashi-sensei year, maybe he could be the one to tell to Naruto those information.

Agreed. As other members have commented before, it has become highly questionable whether Naruto really the main character or not, according to his involvement (or lack thereof) in the plot (well, at least his name is still in the series title).

I think Kishi has fallen prone to something many writers and artists suffer from, an obsession over the development of a tragic villain (some authors and mangaka obsess over their antagonists and Kishi seems to be no exception. Just look at Itachi's drawn out sob story).

So sadly true ...let not lose faith, since now Sasuke past issue is pretty much all covered ( I hope) and that he did start the process of his new vengeance goal (Danzou's dead, that leave only the 2 hokage concillor). Personnally, I doubt that he'll go directly to Konoha, like he mention, and go kill those 2 now. Madara will probably convince him otherwise ( after all, with Danzou's fight, Sasuke-teme most be pretty drain out. He maybe strong but he's not GOD...I know, he probably think that because he's in his power trip and he have a big ego but, even so, he have his limit...let hope that kishi will make that clear)

Beside, killing the two concillors will be a lot more difficult then Danzo since their are both in Konaha (and that include a big bunch of ninja protecting them along with the village...even if, the village have been destroyed, by now, surely it must have been reconstructed or, at least, a big part). Let just hope that something will stop Sasuke going on rampage to soon ( a big kick in the right place so that he come back on the reality world...I know, wishful thinking )

PS: On future chapters, if we have to see Sasuke again, let just hope that it won't turn out in a WHOLE CHAPTER development but more like some panel time to time.

Edited by silverserenity, 08 February 2010 - 01:14 AM.

[Faexylona]

I did not see Karin dying or whatever her fate is, as of now. She might be dead or she might not be dead, but the point is chicken-head stabbed her in the heart. As for Sasuke, he needs to get a good therapist. Such a self-centered person :True: If poor Itachi-kun could see what his brother was intending to do, I am sure someone would get grounded big time. I hope, but I doubt it will happen, that Sakura faces Sasuke. Even do she may not win, she should at lease kick his a.... for a moment.

On another note but related to this chapter, since it is clear there will be another attacked on the hidden leaf village, I wonder if it will soon run into debt. I mean how many attacks has the village suffered and more attacks are coming its way.

Edited by Faexylona, 08 February 2010 - 06:07 AM.

[Prime]

No, we saw his reaction in the current chapter. Very cold and mean, shockingly so, even for what we've seen Sasuke do in part 2 of the manga. He has absolutely no regrets about it- he's smirking no less. He chose to do it because he had developed an emotional bond to her- she became a burden, Sasuke's own words. He also said he'd kill anyone who got in the way of his vengeance, something even Orochimaru warned him against. This chapter shows how far Sasuke has sunk into darkness, further than even Danzo or Orochimaru.

To compare the darkness of danzo/orochimaru/sasuke is insane. Danzo always wanted what was best for konoha even if his method of protecting it was different then what people would agree with. Orochimaru simply wanted everything for himself like sasuke does and was killing more people then sasuke just in less detail. Kishi wants Sasuke to seem more of a villian then ever. So he has Sasuke kill some one who is supposed to care for him.

To clarify I should say I that I want to see whether he will show even a hint of regret about Karins fate at all, he looked cold and mean sure but thats with the adrenaline flowing and in the heat of the moment.

But what about after when Madara takes him away. He will cooldown and then what? will he feel nothing at all simply regarding her as a burden and one hes discarded?

or will he think back on what happend between Karin and him ((the infamous moment mentioned by Suigetsu)) and will he feel something for her, regret, pain, lonliness??

what will he feel when the fire stops burning or at least slows down to a dull burn? We know when madara next stokes that flame of rage to a fever pitch hell forget it all or not think of it.

but when hes cooled down the ghosts are going to come back, we already know this from the aftermath of the itachi fight as he remebered Itachi crying.

its his reaction to Karin that will be veeeery interesting

Agree'd sasuke cannot have any remorse at this point and time of the story unless there is some dramatic change

Agreed. As other members have commented before, it has become highly questionable whether Naruto really the main character or not, according to his involvement (or lack thereof) in the plot (well, at least his name is still in the series title).

I think Kishi has fallen prone to something many writers and artists suffer from, an obsession over the development of a tragic villain (some authors and mangaka obsess over their antagonists and Kishi seems to be no exception. Just look at Itachi's drawn out sob story).

People are tired of sasuke and simply want naruto to be shown but the expense would be to great. sasuke is just as much of the story as naruto if sasuke cannot change he will have to die and it could prove that the ninja world is unable to change even tho that is what naruto has tried to do from the start. To talk about the lack there of naruto then bring up kakashi and sakura is just irony and further proves the point that no one wants to see a bad guy in a story for to long. but when the bad guys is one of the main people in the plot from the very beginning you have no choice. I'm willing to wait as long as I have to just to see the story end the way it should to rush it simply because people are tired of sasuke would be a shame.

[naruto-z]

I couldn't agreed more. Now that we know practically every thing that concern Sasuke's past (and I'm pretty tired of all the repetitive flashback ), how about we, from now on, focus on the main character's past since we don't know that much (beside the obvious). I, like you, am even more curious to know more about Naruto's past since the whole development of Sasuke's past. That would be cool if we could see flashback of Minato and Kushina, knowing a little more about their battle skill (especially Kushina), friend and familly time (well, without Naruto because I doubt that they had that luxury with the Kyuubi attack) etc. Since Kishi made us believe that it could be Kakashi-sensei year, maybe he could be the one to tell to Naruto those information.

so true...i've been hoping like you that kakashi's year will bring us our much needed information. it is very possible due to kakashi's connections to minato and possibly even kushina (who knows, kishi's told us nothing ). We all know he's going to have to tell us at one point but its just a matter of when. If i remember correctly kishi said in the beginning on '09 that it'll be sasuke's year w/o alotta naruto and that naruto had to wait. i think kishi's finally finished what he tried to prove with sasuke so now a lot of naruto possibly??? Kishi's been holding back.

[Serenity Namikaze]

so true...i've been hoping like you that kakashi's year will bring us our much needed information. it is very possible due to kakashi's connections to minato and possibly even kushina (who knows, kishi's told us nothing ). We all know he's going to have to tell us at one point but its just a matter of when. If i remember correctly kishi said in the beginning on '09 that it'll be sasuke's year w/o alotta naruto and that naruto had to wait. i think kishi's finally finished what he tried to prove with sasuke so now a lot of naruto possibly??? Kishi's been holding back.

Not to mention that, if Kakashi is the one that tell these informations, we'll see more Naruto with maybe more bounding with his former sensei. Anyway, more Naruto and Kishi will make my years

Edited by silverserenity, 09 February 2010 - 12:30 AM.

[Evil Potato]

You know what really is funny??? that S/S fans keep asking us why do we hate Sasuke ch 480 is a perfect sample why most N/S fans hate him.

i still wander why people hate Sakura, i don't think i'll ever really understand, but Sasuke has perfect reasons why we would dislike him lol, i mean, killing innocents, being self-absorbed, having more background than Naruto, shall i go on.

[Serenity Namikaze]

i still wander why people hate Sakura, i don't think i'll ever really understand, but Sasuke has perfect reasons why we would dislike him lol, i mean, killing innocents, being self-absorbed, having more background than Naruto, shall i go on.

I think that the reason that most people dislike Sakura is because most of them or probably Hinata's fan and want her, instead of Sakura, to be with Naruto. Most of the Sakura haters don't like her attitude toward naruto (it to cruel, poor Naruto TT_TT)