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#29961 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 30 November 2021 - 09:10 PM

Still can't have an answer to my question...why did Karin give Salad and Sakura her glasses and keep the umibical cord? There is literally no logical reason for it and not once person has even attempted to answer. "Just because."

I think one person tried to explain it was a symbol of friendship, but I have to ask...how many ladies have given their best friend the umbilical cord of their child and why haven't more Naruto characters have done this too? Just a unicorn case. 

There isn't. It was some plot element to further push the idea that Karin was Salad's mother. Since, in Japan and a lot of Asian countries, the mother keeps the umbilical cord as a sign of good luck and health for their baby. Also, what Sakura couldn't put it in her pocket or something? It is something that easily fits in the palm of your hand?

 

But it was dropped because Kishimoto was told SS was too popular to undermined like that...especially since nH fans don't buy anything. Pro enders just try to ignore it. And, it further drove the Japanese fans away from the sequel. Since all them can remember their mothers' having their umbilical cords, and they probably have their kids cords if they had any.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 01 December 2021 - 07:32 PM.


#29962 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 08:49 PM

There isn't. It was some plot element to further push the idea that Karin was Salad's mother. Since, in Japan and a lot of Asian countries, the mother keeps the umbilical cord as a sign of good luck and health for their baby. Also, what Sakura couldn't put it in her pocket or something? It is something that easily fits in the palm of your hand?
 
But it was dropped because Kishimoto was told SS was too popular to undermined like that...especially since nH fans don't buy anything. Pro enders just try to ignore it. And, it further drove the Japanese fans away from the sequel. Since all them can remember their mothers' having their umbilical cords, and they probably have their kids cords if they had any.


Which is still stupid to drop it just because of SS when nothing else has established them to be a happy couple
PERIOD.

#29963 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 09:52 PM

Which is still stupid to drop it just because of SS when nothing else has established them to be a happy couple
PERIOD.

Going flat out, "No, Sakura isn't the mother of Sasuke's daughter, she is some permanent Nanny for SK's kid," would destroy SS fans' support who again are the real financers of Boruto. Without them, Boruto may have been cancelled before the manga even started.

 

They can and more importantly do ignore all the signs that Sasuke doesn't care about Sakura and Sakura is miserable, else they wouldn't be SS fans. But, even they couldn't ignore that Salad isn't Sakura's daughter, since she is the only proof that those two may have ever had sex.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 01 December 2021 - 09:58 PM.


#29964 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 01:37 AM

I would laugh if in Boruto Kishi just had it so Sarada finds out Karin is her real mum.

Why would Kishi do this so he can stop working on Naruto and move on, well in his mind.

Edited by TheFirstEvil100, 02 December 2021 - 01:37 AM.


#29965 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 04:56 PM

You know what I think? Sarada was originally a SK kid in mid 2012 but Kishi was force to write NH and SS canon.

Edited by NaruSaku fan in Kentucky, 02 December 2021 - 04:56 PM.

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#29966 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 05:16 PM

I would laugh if in Boruto Kishi just had it so Sarada finds out Karin is her real mum.

Why would Kishi do this? So, he can stop working on Naruto and move on, well in his mind.

No, we are far past that point and apparently they did meet in the anime.

 

Spite. He always disliked SS and the ending moved it to hated. Remember, Sakura is based off his wife, Sasuke is based off his brother. Do you want to write stories of your brother having sex with your wife? So he decided to experiment with the idea of Salad being SK's child. Then the story flowed so well that it became very convincing that Karin was the mother. Then around chapter 9 someone, likely his editor, came in and told him he cannot undermine SS like that. Because, even by that point they knew nH was a bust but they were stuck because they were in the middle of their Path to Boruto plan (a movie was coming out in a few weeks at that time.) They likely needed SS to finance the series. So, half-assed excuses on how Salad was SS's child and quick wrap up.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 03 December 2021 - 02:08 AM.


#29967 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 09:47 AM

No, we are far past that point and apparently they did meet in the anime.
 
Spite. He always disliked SS and the ending moved it to hated. Remember, Sakura is based off his wife, Sasuke is based off his brother. Do you want to write stories of your brother having sex with your wife? So he decided to experiment with the idea of Salad being SK's child. Then the story flowed so well that it became very convincing that Karin was the mother. Then around chapter 9 someone, likely his editor, came in and told him he cannot undermine SS like that. Because, even by that point they knew nH was a bust but they were stuck because they were in the middle of their Path to Boruto plan (a movie was coming out in a few weeks at that time.) They likely needed SS to finance the series. So, half-assed excuses on how Salad was SS's child and quick wrap up.


Which is further proof this stupid ass ending wasn't really planned and just is a huge mess that just continues to be confusing AND contrived, even years later.

#29968 Phantom_999

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 07:15 AM

That goes without saying. They 180 degree flip the the plot points every five seconds in Boruto.

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#29969 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 03:39 PM

That goes without saying. They 180 degree flip the the plot points every five seconds in Boruto.

...They do? 



#29970 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 10:56 PM

That goes without saying. They 180 degree flip the the plot points every five seconds in Boruto.

that doesn't surprise me really



#29971 Phantom_999

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Posted 10 December 2021 - 06:26 AM

...They do?

Well poor choice of words on my end, but point being they say one thing then play off another thing when it conveniences them. i.e. The Last where Sakura said Naruto only liked her because of a rivalry with Sasuke, then contrast that to the episode where she told Sarada that she and Naruto are closer than family. Or how about the time travel arc? Do you see any narrative cohesion there if you go back and watch the original Naruto?


Edited by Phantom_999, 10 December 2021 - 06:44 PM.

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#29972 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 10 December 2021 - 01:33 PM

The sad fact is that neither Naruto or Sakura matter. All that matters to the writers is Hinatas happiness they can say they are not biased but it has always been shown that the SP staff like Hinata way too much.

They only throw things like this to shut up the real fans calling them out on this BS.

#29973 Namaenash

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Posted 10 December 2021 - 03:02 PM

Speaking about sales, check out this https://twitter.com/...Gbi-yW1PRQ&s=19


Oricon has released their yearly stats for manga sales
https://www.oricon.c...pecial/57840/4/

https://www.oricon.c...pecial/57840/5/

By the look of it, 2021 would probably be the year that Naruto franchise won't be in top 50, for the first time ever. They were at rank 46 last year with Boruto. We'll see sometime next year in February.

Making NH/SS happened so that the series can continue with their children really have killed this franchise.

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"It's okay, this is what I came here to do. I can save today, but you... you can save the world."


#29974 sushi.

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Posted 10 December 2021 - 06:42 PM

Well poor choice of words on my end, but point being they say one thing then play off another thing when it conveniences them. I.e. The Last where Sakura said Naruto only liked her because of a rivalry with Sasuke, then contrast that to the episode where she told Sarada that she and Naruto are closer than family. Or how about the time travel arc? Do you see any narrative cohesion there if you go back and watch the original Naruto?

This was a sad moment. If you ever wondered whether they stayed friends there is your answer. Her daughter didn't even know they were ever friends, and Sakura spoke in past tense.

 

Time travel arc ridicules any belief the ending was planned as it made NH flirt as 12 year olds and no NS moments. With a plan you don't go back in time to edit stuff loll


ナルサク


#29975 Phantom_999

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Posted 10 December 2021 - 06:42 PM

Oricon has released their yearly stats for manga sales
https://www.oricon.c...pecial/57840/4/

https://www.oricon.c...pecial/57840/5/

By the look of it, 2021 would probably be the year that Naruto franchise won't be in top 50, for the first time ever. They were at rank 46 last year with Boruto. We'll see sometime next year in February.

Making NH/SS happened so that the series can continue with their children really have killed this franchise.


Why did it even have to be NH and SS children? That's what I want to knoooooooo........... OH RIGHT, they assumed it would be popular over seas.


Edited by Phantom_999, 10 December 2021 - 06:43 PM.

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#29976 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 11 December 2021 - 01:35 AM

This was a sad moment. If you ever wondered whether they stayed friends there is your answer. Her daughter didn't even know they were ever friends, and Sakura spoke in past tense.
 
Time travel arc ridicules any belief the ending was planned as it made NH flirt as 12 year olds and no NS moments. With a plan you don't go back in time to edit stuff loll


Which just makes me cry seeing the friendship and bond that they had together, but nope need to please so weirdos who think Hinata was the main character.

#29977 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 11 December 2021 - 04:22 AM

Oricon has released their yearly stats for manga sales
https://www.oricon.c...pecial/57840/4/

https://www.oricon.c...pecial/57840/5/

By the look of it, 2021 would probably be the year that Naruto franchise won't be in top 50, for the first time ever. They were at rank 46 last year with Boruto. We'll see sometime next year in February.

Making NH/SS happened so that the series can continue with their children really have killed this franchise.

Its not help that objectively Boruto is just a boring snail's pace story that doesn't really interest people. What people are interested in are when Naruto does something and again he has the world's slowest death clock ticking over his head. So, even if it could have worked, they have completely botched it.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 11 December 2021 - 08:20 AM.


#29978 Namaenash

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Posted 11 December 2021 - 07:29 AM

There's a term for that. It's called "Franchise Killer".

Ironically, Naruto has always been in top 3 until 2013. We are talking about one of the best-selling manga franchise in the history (250million in its 15 years run).

They were a frequent top 2 or 3 in the list for the longest time. They clearly loosing sales after volume 64 came out (the one with NH handholding cover). This was the first time ever, if I recall correctly, they lost 20% sales year-on-year and keep declining until today. I would imagine that at that point, The Last movie was already in production (it takes about 2 years to make animated movie).

After NH handholding scene, the scene where Naruto mentioned Sakura is her girlfriend in front of Minato (and in front of Hinata) was drawn and also the CPR scene (the only kissing scene between opposing gender in the manga) were created to cast doubt, so the fandom financing the series (NS) won't go away.

Now we all know which fandom was actually financing the series and make it afloat in top 3 for the longest time.

Remove NS and it only takes 5 years for Naruto franchise, who used to be in top 3 AND one of the best-selling manga all time, to be completely out of top 50. Wow!

Never in the history of manga industry this happened to an active franchise. Let alone the 4th best-selling manga franchise all time (https://en.m.wikiped...t-selling_manga)

That's NH/SS for you. The smallest dog barks the loudest indeed. I believe no one in the production team would have ever imagined this when they went with NH/SS route. This makes NH/SS the franchise killer for Naruto.

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"It's okay, this is what I came here to do. I can save today, but you... you can save the world."


#29979 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 11 December 2021 - 09:26 AM

There's a term for that. It's called "Franchise Killer".

Ironically, Naruto has always been in top 3 until 2013. We are talking about one of the best-selling manga franchise in the history (250million in its 15 years run).

They were a frequent top 2 or 3 in the list for the longest time. They clearly loosing sales after volume 64 came out (the one with NH handholding cover). This was the first time ever, if I recall correctly, they lost 20% sales year-on-year and keep declining until today. I would imagine that at that point, The Last movie was already in production (it takes about 2 years to make animated movie).

After NH handholding scene, the scene where Naruto mentioned Sakura is her girlfriend in front of Minato (and in front of Hinata) was drawn and also the CPR scene (the only kissing scene between opposing gender in the manga) were created to cast doubt, so the fandom financing the series (NS) won't go away.

Now we all know which fandom was actually financing the series and make it afloat in top 3 for the longest time.

Remove NS and it only takes 5 years for Naruto franchise, who used to be in top 3 AND one of the best-selling manga all time, to be completely out of top 50. Wow!

Never in the history of manga industry this happened to an active franchise. Let alone the 4th best-selling manga franchise all time (https://en.m.wikiped...t-selling_manga)

That's NH/SS for you. The smallest dog barks the loudest indeed. I believe no one in the production team would have ever imagined this when they went with NH/SS route. This makes NH/SS the franchise killer for Naruto.

To be honest, I think the reason for the discrepancies between the manga and the movie was The Last was not originally suppose to be canon.

 

SP Naruto anime staff had always loudly proclaimed that they were huge Hinata fans. Since, it was their last movie they wanted it to be about Hinata, and since it didn't matter as the story was seen as filler they wanted her to get with Naruto; maybe angle it so they can make them end up together in the anime. Kishimoto didn't care because he didn't consider a filler movie canon.

 

However, Naruto was ending, and the companies wanted to keep making money from it. Which meant they wanted a sequel if Naruto was ending. Also, companies want one product that will get them the most bang for their buck. So they wanted to make sure Naruto ended in a way that would give them the most amount of profits. So either the editors or SP brought up Hinata's popularity with the international fans, the very demographic they wanted. So, they went with it and came up with the Path to Boruto plan -a year long plan to build up to a sequel that they assume will give them the money they wanted-; helped along by the fact that there was already a Hinata movie in development. Of course another movie was then put into development to hype up the sequel as well.

 

I say it was decided around the time of Naruto and Sasuke near-death experience, and was finalized right before Kaguya was defeated. 

 

I swear that someone once mentioned that it was clear the marketing team realized how bad of an idea it was, which is why they made the Last trailers seem to hint that it was a NS movie.

 

nH/SS crippled the series. Boruto was the deathblow, due to it being unable to impress and retain its customers.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 13 December 2021 - 09:17 AM.


#29980 ree

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Posted 11 December 2021 - 12:59 PM

So the market isn't democratic, and that's fine, they try to hold on a really minority, data say so. Why is happening in every platform. Netflix's Cowboy Bebop got axed, Boruto is making really bad, at least the Manga. Why companies just don't realize how much they are losing.





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