196 replies to this topic

[FullmetalNinja25]

[Nar123]

Naruto isn't that nice either tbh

No character came out unscathed from this ending

[James S Cassidy]

[Nostradamus]

In the end only hatred towards these characters was left.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

No the one in 2013.
It held by weekly shonen jump.

@touen
Shipper bait, lol.

 

When Ramen was still with us, he posted the poll from 2ch here on Chatte's old thread, showing Kakashi remains number 1, Sakura surprises me is ranked three and Sasuke was ranked 6th. Hinata was ranked 11th in the polls.

[rocci]

 
When Ramen was still with us, he posted the poll from 2ch here on Chatte's old thread, showing Kakashi remains number 1, Sakura surprises me is ranked three and Sasuke was ranked 6th. Hinata was ranked 11th in the polls.

Shonen jump usually use the poll from their own polling.

[Nostradamus]

Shonen jump usually use the poll from their own polling.

And look at what happened when they did that.

[Tiller]

Sakura's problem is that she wasn't allowed to have any character progression, and in the end she outright regressed. Here going back to Sasuke and acting like a 12 year old around him is bad enough, the fact that she further went on to basically just be a conquered trophy for "Sasuke the Great" shows that she isn't so much a character in the end, as she is simply there to make sure Sasuke has a kid.

That's all her role was in the story in the end. She wanted the Uchiha Dix, made her best friend promise to bring it back to her, got it once, then raised the kid without her husband around for 12 years.

It's not surprising why canon Sakura is hated. She's a terrible character.

What doesn't make any sense is Hinata. because she does the same thing Sakura did plus got a few innocent people killed. But the beta males lover her because she has big kittens, and is submissive. Since she's good masturbation material to these pathetic hungry menchildren she remains popular.

 

The fact is though they both have similar qaulites now. They are both women who's entire outlook on life depends on getting the D from a character who threw the majority of the story wanted nothing to do with them. The only thing that makes Hinata look slightly less pathetic is that Naruto never tried to kill her multiple times.

[yimiiyumi]

The main reason for sakura hate is : sasuke

sakura+sasuke+character development cannot be together in the same scene

sakura could be the most badass character in the war but everytime sasuke is around she turns out in a boring fangirl trying to get a little of attention from "sasuke-kun" just 1 chapter after sasuke coming in the war sakura started to act as the typical sakura from part 1, blushing for sasuke and ignoring naruto 

I had a lot of faith in her character during the CPR scene but some chapters after she was again acting in a ridiculous way, wanting sasuke's attention and ignoring naruto again

So yeah kishi made us hate sakura (from canon)

Edited by yimiiyumi, 12 November 2015 - 01:21 PM.

[Atheck]

 

Eh... I wouldn't say that description is completely accurate. For example, the relationship between Naruto and Hinata prior to the ending wasn't intimate or too close, but the former did respect the latter for what self-improvement efforts she did; which were few and far between, admittedly. Their bond was certainly closer relative to Naruto's with the other less explored members of the K11 such as Kiba, Shino, Tenten, ect. The worst you could argue is that Naruto was being insensitive and neglectful for misinterpreting Hinata's confession and failing to address it so that any confusion on where their friendship stands is resolved. While that certainly doesn't make Hinata entitled to Naruto's feelings, I do wish he could help her move on and discover new meanings to her life such as her teammates, her duty as a shinobi, and as someone trying to bridge the two subgroups of her clan and repeal the old antiquated family tenets that have plagued her clan for so long. And I don't mean that in the sense that he feels it to be his obligation as the object of her affections, but as her friend and a genuinely good person who wants the best for those around him. 

 

Also, with regards to the "requiring everyone else to save her" portion, she did perform better than Sakura in moments like when the Mokuton barrage was hitting the Alliance forces. I don't understand what was happening with Sakura at the time, but it was downright pitiful how she couldn't even protect herself with those hyped reflexive skills that she supposedly acquired when her inferior teammates were able to survive on their own. 

Edited by Atheck, 13 November 2015 - 04:30 AM.

[rocci]

@atheck
Sakura at the time is not the heroine anymore.

[James S Cassidy]

 

Eh... I wouldn't say that description is completely accurate. For example, the relationship between Naruto and Hinata prior to the ending wasn't intimate or too close, but the former did respect the latter for what self-improvement efforts she did; which were few and far between, admittedly. Their bond was certainly closer relative to Naruto's with the other less explored members of the K11 such as Kiba, Shino, Tenten, ect. The worst you could argue is that Naruto was being insensitive and neglectful for misinterpreting Hinata's confession and failing to address it so that any confusion on where their friendship stands is resolved. While that certainly doesn't make Hinata entitled to Naruto's feelings, I do wish he could help her move on and discover new meanings to her life such as her teammates, her duty as a shinobi, and as someone trying to bridge the two subgroups of her clan and repeal the old antiquated family tenets that have plagued her clan for so long. And I don't mean that in the sense that he feels it to be his obligation as the object of her affections, but as her friend and a genuinely good person who wants the best for those around him. 

 

Also, with regards to the "requiring everyone else to save her" portion, she did perform better than Sakura in moments like when the Mokuton barrage was hitting the Alliance forces. I don't understand what was happening with Sakura at the time, but it was downright pitiful how she couldn't even protect herself with those hyped reflexive skills that she supposedly acquired when her inferior teammates were able to survive on their own. 

..................................................

You know, a lot of things people keep saying is completely inaccurate from Sakura's, Naruto's, Sasuke's, and so many other characters stand points. Let's talk about how Naruto couldn't just "dodge" some things rather than just standing there and letting other characters literally die from taking the bullets, couldn't heal a dislocated shoulder, but can regenerate an eye, and lost resolve in the war all because Neji died when in the past he showcased that people dying wouldn't break his spirit leading to a side character just to get a moment. Let;s talks about Sauske who is by far the worst character when it comes to resolving issues from claiming victory saying "I killed my brother" when really not only was Itachi already on death's door, but died from over-exhaustion than by his hand, who couldn't do ANYTHING in the story and was always side-tracked, and got killed because he got stabbed with his own sword after a reckless attack on a man who he knew was too dangerous to attack alone. Let's talk about Hinata who basically did NOTHING for the entire manga and was praised for it, couldn't even beat white zetsu clones, and is so pathetic that eventually other people had to make Naruto fall in love with.

Yes, let's actually point out every other characters stupid and inaccurate flaws for once instead of keep attacking Sakura over and over and over again.

Let's talk about how Naruto has not learned a single wind technique other than just adding it to his rasengan, who learned no frog techniques, and was a complete and total waste of time to teach him Frog sage mode when all he uses it for was a Nature Steriod boost.
Let's talk about how Sasuke, master of the rasengan and the sharingan, doesn't seem to know or use actual helpful techniques until AFTER the battle is over, help in no way against Kaguya other than use his part of the seal, and had to be saved by Sakura and Obito through dimension hoping only to be able to dimension hope later in the story.

Let's talk about Kakashi, the supposed "Master of 1000 techniques" maybe only using 6 techniques throughout the entire manga. A teacher who didn't actually teach his students and is by far the worst role model in the story, but hey, at least he taught Sasuke something....too bad he never gave Naruto or Sakura the time of day. Not even as an adult does he contribute, but pressures Sasuke to be with Sakura because "love doesn't need a reason." Well, I hope Rin never hears you say that Kakashi, because you certainly had not reason NOT to love her other than you were an emo child just like Sasuke only less psychotic, but the jury is still out on that one.

Let's talk about all the other characters who actually made a useful and purposeful things in the story and yet everyone just forgot because "NH and SS became canon." Yeup, hey you guys remember the time you....oh wait, sorry you're not important enough to remember. We're just gonna give you stupid hair cuts and make you miserable because we need a new generation.

So the next time you want to once again make "Technicalities" about things....do me a favor and point out all the things EVERY character does including all the stupid things too. Shall we bring up the smart and intelligent Sasuke making probably the worst plans to fight against madara and made Naruto do all the work by himself? No? okay. I guess Naruto and Sasuke should just be ignored because despite their stupid, reckless, and asinine forced plot elements put in by a man who has no love for his own story because...hey, without them there is no story.

SASUKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





 

[Atheck]

..................................................

You know, a lot of things people keep saying is completely inaccurate from Sakura's, Naruto's, Sasuke's, and so many other characters stand points. Let's talk about how Naruto couldn't just "dodge" some things rather than just standing there and letting other characters literally die from taking the bullets, couldn't heal a dislocated shoulder, but can regenerate an eye, and lost resolve in the war all because Neji died when in the past he showcased that people dying wouldn't break his spirit leading to a side character just to get a moment. Let;s talks about Sauske who is by far the worst character when it comes to resolving issues from claiming victory saying "I killed my brother" when really not only was Itachi already on death's door, but died from over-exhaustion than by his hand, who couldn't do ANYTHING in the story and was always side-tracked, and got killed because he got stabbed with his own sword after a reckless attack on a man who he knew was too dangerous to attack alone. Let's talk about Hinata who basically did NOTHING for the entire manga and was praised for it, couldn't even beat white zetsu clones, and is so pathetic that eventually other people had to make Naruto fall in love with.

Naruto's idealism and philosophical viewpoint was so uncompromisingly rigid in its expectations that it came as a shock to him when he failed to meet one of them. He's the sort of person who obstinately clings to what he feels is possible while failing to take into account the possibility of failure or contingencies. In that context, it must have devastated him when Obito threw his self-prescribed convictions of not allowing any of his teammates to die right back at him. Not that it justifies him having a complete mental breakdown over someone like Neji. If it were someone closer to him such as Kakashi, a person whom he actually had made the promise especially for and held a close attachment to, then I could see that scenario being more realistic.

As for Sasuke's battle with Itachi - well of course the moments of creativity and skill that Sasuke showed were going to be softened down to lucky breaks achieved only through the convenience of his opponent being preemptively weakened. Itachi is the walking textbook example of a Gary Stue. I can't remember a time where he wasn't in control of a situation or did not possess the means to resolve it by virtue of Kishi's penmanship. With the possible exception of Kabuto bisecting him through a surprise attack, he's never even been legitimately damaged before in a fight where he was in top fighting capacity and did not want to be injured in the first place.
 

Yes, let's actually point out every other characters stupid and inaccurate flaws for once instead of keep attacking Sakura over and over and over again.

There's plenty to criticise the other characters for. However, most of them aren't defined by their imperfections or shortcomings. Sakura is consistently known for her blunders and taking two steps back for every one step she manages to gain.
 

Let's talk about how Naruto has not learned a single wind technique other than just adding it to his rasengan, who learned no frog techniques, and was a complete and total waste of time to teach him Frog sage mode when all he uses it for was a Nature Steriod boost.
Let's talk about how Sasuke, master of the rasengan and the sharingan, doesn't seem to know or use actual helpful techniques until AFTER the battle is over, help in no way against Kaguya other than use his part of the seal, and had to be saved by Sakura and Obito through dimension hoping only to be able to dimension hope later in the story.

Naruto's style isn't defined by knowing a smorgasbord of different techniques weaved together through a complex series of hand movements. It's his efficiency at using what he has while playing to his own strengths that makes him so good. He's effective with the abilities he already has. Well...that was true prior to the Kurama power up. I don't particularly care for any of the power attainments made during the war arc and onward. Moreover, I dislike how Sage Mode by itself was discarded so quickly after just one outing against Pain. Putting the Celestial Gates aside, it's the narrative equivalent to Kaioken for the protagonist. But at least Naruto eventually discovered a means to incorporate it into his current power states so that it could hold some worth again.

Oh, there's no doubt that Sasuke was playing second fiddle in that battle. I don't understand what Kishi's intentions at the time were, but he failed spectacularly at portraying the two characters as equals who mutually depend on each other and work together to achieve a common goal. Naruto was clearly the most dominant force of the group. It just so happened to be a convenient opportunity for Sakura to shine temporarily since it would be her last moment of glory before the end of the manga.
 

Let's talk about Kakashi, the supposed "Master of 1000 techniques" maybe only using 6 techniques throughout the entire manga. A teacher who didn't actually teach his students and is by far the worst role model in the story, but hey, at least he taught Sasuke something....too bad he never gave Naruto or Sakura the time of day. Not even as an adult does he contribute, but pressures Sasuke to be with Sakura because "love doesn't need a reason." Well, I hope Rin never hears you say that Kakashi, because you certainly had not reason NOT to love her other than you were an emo child just like Sasuke only less psychotic, but the jury is still out on that one.

I attribute Kakashi's lack of diversity in execution to Kishi. He likely did not want to be troubled in creating hundreds of individual jutsu for the character to use before never seeing them again.

With regards to his status as a role model, once again, I agree. Although, the state of mind and ethics of the character are at the discretion of the writer. To any sensible person, they would understand how self-destructive and perverse this so called "love" which Sakura has contrived for Sasuke actually was. Kakashi was moronic at best and insane at worst for allowing his student to continue harbouring inane feelings for someone who never acknowledged her as anything more than a teammate worth protecting on his best day before his gradual decline into murderous insanity. Kakashi might have disregarded Rin and her life, but I don't recall him actively trying to kill her or crush her spirit.
 

Let's talk about all the other characters who actually made a useful and purposeful things in the story and yet everyone just forgot because "NH and SS became canon." Yeup, hey you guys remember the time you....oh wait, sorry you're not important enough to remember. We're just gonna give you stupid hair cuts and make you miserable because we need a new generation.

So the next time you want to once again make "Technicalities" about things....do me a favor and point out all the things EVERY character does including all the stupid things too. Shall we bring up the smart and intelligent Sasuke making probably the worst plans to fight against madara and made Naruto do all the work by himself? No? okay. I guess Naruto and Sasuke should just be ignored because despite their stupid, reckless, and asinine forced plot elements put in by a man who has no love for his own story because...hey, without them there is no story.

SASUKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well it's as I stated above. There are very many things to hold against the other characters for. But they usually have some redeeming factor that mitigates the stigma associated with that particular action or trait. With Sakura, she has her moments of competence and strength, but they're almost always counteracted afterwards with a mistake or oversight that paints the accomplishment in a half-hearted and ambiguous light. I personally believe that these questionable circumstances of feats might have been Kishi's way of portraying Sakura as a flawed, vulnerable girl. She's not some indomitable powerhouse or emotionally toughened Mary Sue with no personality flaws to speak of. The human quality of hers is what is supposed to distinguish her from the others, albeit in the process it makes her seem less competent than those around her.

Edited by Atheck, 13 November 2015 - 09:20 AM.

[Niky]

Well it's as I stated above. There are very many things to hold against the other characters for. But they usually have some redeeming factor that mitigates the stigma associated with that particular action or trait. With Sakura, she has her moments of competence and strength, but they're almost always counteracted afterwards with a mistake or oversight that paints the accomplishment in a half-hearted and ambiguous light. I personally believe that these questionable circumstances of feats might have been Kishi's way of portraying Sakura as a flawed, vulnerable girl. She's not some indomitable powerhouse or emotionally toughened Mary Sue with no personality flaws to speak of. The human quality of hers is what is supposed to distinguish her from the others, albeit in the process it makes her seem less competent than those around her.

 

To me is a matter of perception and sympathy (affinity)...

 

In my eyes, for example, Hinata has not redeeming factor that mitigates her monstrous selfishness and narrowed heart.

Only, she is scarcely present in the manga and she ceased to be a Naruto character to become some abstract ideals' container to Naruto manga's readers.

That's all...

[TheFirstEvil100]

 

To me is a matter of perception and sympathy (affinity)...

 

In my eyes, for example, Hinata has not redeeming factor that mitigates her monstrous selfishness and narrowed heart.

Only, she is scarcely present in the manga and she ceased to be a Naruto character to become some abstract ideals' container to Naruto manga's readers.

That's all...

True I mean her only goal in life was just one thing in her mind.

 

Naruto Naruto and well lets face it Naruto I mean that's all she is both the Last and the Bolt film showed this a lot going so far as not to care about her own sister, who was getting her eyes torn out from her skull and to me that is bad, we can say all we want about Sakura but not giving a damn about your own sister that is just bad.

 

I mean its gets worse when fans say kitten her family, and trust me I have seen them say this which makes me feel sick that the fans only care about Hinata getting what she wants and they don't even care what Naruto wants I mean we have to remember that many say they like Hinata more than they do Naruto.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

This is Kishi, a sexist writer that thinks abused women are terrible if they move on from their crush who is a psychological murderer. What a role model for writers everywhere.

[rocci]

Hinata is not negative, she's irrelevant.

[Nostradamus]

Hinata is not negative, she's irrelevant.

She's irrelevant but she's also a horrible person. Hinata is a selfish kitten that doesn't care about anyone expect herself.

When her cousin died saving her life she cried a bit, and as soon as she got what she wanted. She forgot he even existed.

When Naruto was dying she abandoned her friends and decided the best way to pray for Naruto's well being is to pray to a dead guy that she doesn't even care about.

 

Every time when she could've been there for Naruto, she chose to ignore him entirely. Even when she saw in how much pain that kid was. She still didn't care. But as soon as she saw an opportunity to confesses her crush she took it, not because she wanted to help Naruto because she didn't do anything to help him. She did what was best for her. She never cared about Naruto or anyone.

That is apathy. And apathy is death. Worse than death.

Edited by Nostradamus, 14 November 2015 - 12:30 AM.

[rocci]

She's irrelevant but she's also a bad person. Hinata is a selfish kitten that doesn't care about anyone expect herself.
When her cousin died saving her life she cried a bit, and as soon as she got what she wanted. She forgot he even existed.
When Naruto was dying she abandoned her friends and decided the best way to pray for Naruto's well being is to pray to a dead guy that she doesn't even care about.
 
Every time when she could've been there for Naruto, she chose to ignore him entirely. Even when she saw in how much pain that kid was. She still didn't care. But as soon as she saw an opportunity to confesses her crush she took it, not because she wanted to help Naruto because she didn't do anything to help him. She did what was best for her. She never cared about Naruto or anyone.
That is apathy. And apathy is death. Worse than death.

All that happen because she's irrelevant.

[Nate River]

Sakura's problem is that she wasn't allowed to have any character progression, and in the end she outright regressed. Here going back to Sasuke and acting like a 12 year old around him is bad enough, the fact that she further went on to basically just be a conquered trophy for "Sasuke the Great" shows that she isn't so much a character in the end, as she is simply there to make sure Sasuke has a kid.

She did have character progression. The problem is that Kishimoto abandoned all of it in one fell swoop with 693. Even if he planned SS all along, it's mystifying that he would repeat Sakura's weakest moment in the way he did. If you want to parallel that then you would have her behave in a way that contrasts her behavior in 181. He could show how far she has come. Her uselessness at the end of part 1 was why she resolved to improve as a ninja. It was a big deal. So why relive it? What was the point of her journey?
 

That's all her role was in the story in the end. She wanted the Uchiha Dix, made her best friend promise to bring it back to her, got it once, then raised the kid without her husband around for 12 years.

Yeah, that was the end result. After about the second arc of Part 2, Kishimoto struggled badly to keep her involved beyond background noise. She really only mattered twice after that (keep Naruto alive and the fake confession). Otherwise, she was just there.
 

It's not surprising why canon Sakura is hated. She's a terrible character.

She, like Naruto, became one. Neither started terrible, but their mishandling throughout the latter half of Part 2 and the New Age material destroyed them.
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