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#7941 AHK

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 06:31 AM

Pica was around Oven level, and Sanji handled Oven with no problems. Daifuku was twice as strong as Pica and Sanji was able to match his haki at the very least. Signs of growth since the fight he had against Vergo.

You have absolutely zero evidence to support Pica was around Oven level, nor that Daifuku is twice as strong as Pica. There's also no evidence that Sanji was able to match his haki, as they weren't fighting all out and they didn't fight for long anyway. Sanji still hasn't shown hardening. You're completely exaggerating to prop Sanji up.

With the raid suit he is much stronger than an ancient devil fruit headliner on the suits first use without any adjustments added. And why have Sanji fight a headliner so soon with the suit, talking as if this headliner with an ancient zoan is nothing more than a quick win and test run for the suit? He is obviously fighting a calamity. There is nothing else for Sanji on this island.

This is also not true. He's not much stronger than an ancient devil fruit headliner. We saw nothing but snippets of their fight, and Sanji has done absolutely nothing significant to him. He's not going from beneath NW veterans to above a calamity in one arc.

The minks have Jack. Sanji has Queen. Zoro has King. Luffy/Law/Kidd have Kaido/Big Mom. There is a reason the editors are saying the series is almost over. We are in the Yonkou Saga. If Luffy is considered a true Yonkou after this saga, then Zoro, Sanji and Jinbei are his top commanders, and must all be at Jack-King level.

Sanji probably isn't going to solo Queen. Luffy had to fight two commanders in the same arc to surpass YC1 level. It doesn't make sense for Sanji to go from below YC level (getting humiliated by Vergo/Doflamingo) to all of a sudden being on YC2 level. Not to mention there's far too many characters in this arc for clean 1v1s, especially now that BM's crew has shown up. And that's not counting Jinbe, who is still stronger than Sanji and is not simply going to slow down. Based on what we've seen, if there are solo fights, Zoro and Jinbe are the only ones who have shown that they can handle it.

What might happen is Zoro and Sanji receive some help like Luffy did against Doflamingo and Katakuri. They are damaged because of something else (Law and Katakuri's pride). Regardless, if Luffy can go from 500mil to 1.5b, then his top 3 men/commanders can't be around 500-600mil after the next arc ends.

Actually, they can. If the gap between Luffy and the rest mattered that much, then he wouldn't have been elevated to over 1.5 bil while his next highest was Jinbe.


Edited by AHK, 03 February 2019 - 06:39 AM.

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#7942 FoolishYoungling

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 03:28 AM

You have absolutely zero evidence to support Pica was around Oven level, nor that Daifuku is twice as strong as Pica. There's also no evidence that Sanji was able to match his haki, as they weren't fighting all out and they didn't fight for long anyway. Sanji still hasn't shown hardening. You're completely exaggerating to prop Sanji up.

Was Doflamingo even Cracker (YC3) level? I put Doflamingo in between YC4 and YC3 because I believe he could take Snack but not Cracker. At the same time, I put Doflamingo way above Pica. I would say Daifuku (and Perospero) are right below Snack. Pica, there is no way he could even last a few minutes against a YC. Unless he did nothing but hid and didn't even try attacking. Oven could take Snack for a while. The guy led a group with Snack in it. Snack isn't following Oven if he doesn't highly respect him.

How I would rank it post Whole Cake Arc:

BM > Luffy > Katakuri > Smoothie > Cracker > Doflamingo > Jinebi > Snack > Perospero > Daifuku > Zoro > Sanji > Oven > Pica

This is also not true. He's not much stronger than an ancient devil fruit headliner. We saw nothing but snippets of their fight, and Sanji has done absolutely nothing significant to him. He's not going from beneath NW veterans to above a calamity in one arc.

Bested Oven, one shot a few veterans of a Yonko crew in WCI, and tanked shots from someone right below YC4 level without much problem.

Sanji probably isn't going to solo Queen. Luffy had to fight two commanders in the same arc to surpass YC1 level. It doesn't make sense for Sanji to go from below YC level (getting humiliated by Vergo/Doflamingo) to all of a sudden being on YC2 level. Not to mention there's far too many characters in this arc for clean 1v1s, especially now that BM's crew has shown up. And that's not counting Jinbe, who is still stronger than Sanji and is not simply going to slow down. Based on what we've seen, if there are solo fights, Zoro and Jinbe are the only ones who have shown that they can handle it.

No way Zoro takes on a YC1 by himself if Sanji doesn't take on the YC2 by himself. They don't need to be stronger than them by the end of the arc, just need to get the final hit on them or go hours against them before being interrupted. Enough to be seen as at least right beneath them. Luffy should get closer to Yonko level in this arc. So by the end of this arc the big 4 should look like so:

Luffy right beneath Big Mom, Zoro in between YC1 and YC2 (stronger than Queen), Sanji in between YC2 and YC3 (stronger than Jack), Jinbei in between YC3 and YC4, but might be right at YC3 (as strong as or just below Jack).

Actually, they can. If the gap between Luffy and the rest mattered that much, then he wouldn't have been elevated to over 1.5 bil while his next highest was Jinbe.

And Oda fixes that in Wano.


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#7943 Phantom_999

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 07:06 PM

Says you, and no one else :hehehe:  :fu: .


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#7944 AHK

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 09:03 PM

Was Doflamingo even Cracker (YC3) level? I put Doflamingo in between YC4 and YC3 because I believe he could take Snack but not Cracker. At the same time, I put Doflamingo way above Pica. I would say Daifuku (and Perospero) are right below Snack. Pica, there is no way he could even last a few minutes against a YC. Unless he did nothing but hid and didn't even try attacking. Oven could take Snack for a while. The guy led a group with Snack in it. Snack isn't following Oven if he doesn't highly respect him.

How I would rank it post Whole Cake Arc:

BM > Luffy > Katakuri > Smoothie > Cracker > Doflamingo > Jinebi > Snack > Perospero > Daifuku > Zoro > Sanji > Oven > Pica

Yes, Doflamingo is on Cracker's level, at least, in part because of the obvious counter to Cracker's ability. On top of that, Cracker was made to look better than he is based on the way he fights. He stalls people out until they run out of energy. If he had decided to square up against Luffy the entire time instead of hide behind his crackers, Luffy would have never needed Nami. You still have said nothing that indicates Oven is about Pica level and Diafuku is twice as strong as Pica. The only reason you even made that up to begin with was to try and put Sanji on Zoro's level, when it's clear that he anything but.

 

 

Bested Oven, one shot a few veterans of a Yonko crew in WCI, and tanked shots from someone right below YC4 level without much problem.

Yeah, that's not true. He didn't "best" Oven, at any time. He didn't "one shot a few veterans of a Yonko crew," and he didn't "tank shots from someone right below YC4 level without much problem".

 

He snuck up on Oven and bailed. He didn't "best" him. He kicked someone away from Luffy and we didn't see what happened to the guy. He never "tanked" anything from anybody in the arc. 

 

 

No way Zoro takes on a YC1 by himself if Sanji doesn't take on the YC2 by himself. They don't need to be stronger than them by the end of the arc, just need to get the final hit on them or go hours against them before being interrupted. Enough to be seen as at least right beneath them. Luffy should get closer to Yonko level in this arc. So by the end of this arc the big 4 should look like so:

Luffy right beneath Big Mom, Zoro in between YC1 and YC2 (stronger than Queen), Sanji in between YC2 and YC3 (stronger than Jack), Jinbei in between YC3 and YC4, but might be right at YC3 (as strong as or just below Jack).

He does if he's stronger and better suited for it, which he is. Sanji is not Zoro. Sanji does not need to do everything Zoro needs to do. Sanji is not on Zoro's level. Zoro obliterated Pica, meanwhile Sanji admits that he would have lost against Vergo, gets humilated by Doflamingo, and then an arc-and-a-half later, gets blitzed by Yuen and outshined by Germa. Sanji has to wear a raid suit to be competitive against NW veterans. Stop tethering Sanji to Zoro in order to make Sanji look better. 

 

Furthermore, it's funny how you'd put Sanji just under YC2 after the arc (when he needs a raid suit to achieve that kind of strength) and put Jinbe beneath him when Jinbe tanked a shot from BM and then blasted her off the ship they stood on in return. Meanwhile, Sanji hasn't even shown hardening. Your rankings aren't based off anything other than your character preference.

 

 

And Oda fixes that in Wano.

Or he won't, because captains have always been clearly superior than their subordinates, and it hasn't ever been close. Their bounties don't need to make a jump as quickly as Luffy's did, because their opponents won't make that kind of jump in strength. Luffy went from fighting a YC3 to a first mate, to now fighting a Yonko. His bounty reflects that. Zoro next few opponents aren't going to be any higher than YC1 and so on. 


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#7945 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 09:50 PM

https://comicbook.co...35-break-delay/

#7946 LuckyChi7

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Posted 01 March 2019 - 12:22 AM

 

 

See this is what happens when you have BlueStar reading manga 

 

 

 

eaf3258d14dc1811f594d701f692b583.gif


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#7947 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 12:17 AM

See this is what happens when you have BlueStar reading manga 
 
 
 
eaf3258d14dc1811f594d701f692b583.gif


Hey you said Oda was immune to the so called "curse"

#7948 LuckyChi7

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 12:22 AM

Hey you said Oda was immune to the so called "curse"


In terms of quality content yes! The extended break is due to your devotion reading the series. Thats where your curse affected the series (the release of the chapters)

Edited by LuckyChi7, 02 March 2019 - 12:23 AM.

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#7949 Phantom_999

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 12:47 AM

"Hiatus X Hiatus syndrome" is kicking in!! :banana:  :lmao:


Edited by Phantom_999, 02 March 2019 - 12:47 AM.

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#7950 LuckyChi7

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 01:01 AM

"Hiatus X Hiatus syndrome" is kicking in!! :banana:  :lmao:


Point all your nukes at BlueStar!

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#7951 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 09:49 PM

Point all your nukes at BlueStar!


You do that I start reading black clover

#7952 LuckyChi7

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 10:38 PM

You do that I start reading black clover


Hell no! You dont Im not making that mistake again!

Edited by LuckyChi7, 02 March 2019 - 10:39 PM.

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#7953 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 11:06 PM

Hell no! You dont Im not making that mistake again!


Then call if the nukes

#7954 LuckyChi7

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Posted 02 March 2019 - 11:13 PM

Then call if the nukes


Theyre off!

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#7955 FoolishYoungling

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Posted 03 March 2019 - 09:05 PM

Yes, Doflamingo is on Cracker's level, at least, in part because of the obvious counter to Cracker's ability. On top of that, Cracker was made to look better than he is based on the way he fights. He stalls people out until they run out of energy. If he had decided to square up against Luffy the entire time instead of hide behind his crackers, Luffy would have never needed Nami. You still have said nothing that indicates Oven is about Pica level and Diafuku is twice as strong as Pica. The only reason you even made that up to begin with was to try and put Sanji on Zoro's level, when it's clear that he anything but.

Zoro's bounty rose to 320,000,000 for defeating Pica. That's... nothing. Not in the New World. Daifuku was a Vergo on steroids, and both Oven and Daifuku led giant armies (because Smoothie got 0 spotlight). You don't lead a Yonko crew with the top dog out of commission if you aren't seen as very strong.

Yeah, that's not true. He didn't "best" Oven, at any time. He didn't "one shot a few veterans of a Yonko crew," and he didn't "tank shots from someone right below YC4 level without much problem".

 

He snuck up on Oven and bailed. He didn't "best" him. He kicked someone away from Luffy and we didn't see what happened to the guy. He never "tanked" anything from anybody in the arc.

2f4c851e8a06c783389ab438f9fadb779ba59da5

one_piece_ch854_p016-e1486510696422.png

He does if he's stronger and better suited for it, which he is. Sanji is not Zoro. Sanji does not need to do everything Zoro needs to do. Sanji is not on Zoro's level. Zoro obliterated Pica, meanwhile Sanji admits that he would have lost against Vergo, gets humilated by Doflamingo, and then an arc-and-a-half later, gets blitzed by Yuen and outshined by Germa. Sanji has to wear a raid suit to be competitive against NW veterans. Stop tethering Sanji to Zoro in order to make Sanji look better. 

 

Furthermore, it's funny how you'd put Sanji just under YC2 after the arc (when he needs a raid suit to achieve that kind of strength) and put Jinbe beneath him when Jinbe tanked a shot from BM and then blasted her off the ship they stood on in return. Meanwhile, Sanji hasn't even shown hardening. Your rankings aren't based off anything other than your character preference.

He isn't on his level. He is a tier below it. He always will be. Forever and ever, within arms reach but never past him or quite equal to him.

 

Jinbei also was fighting a Big Mom that wasn't all there, and beside water that he could draw from. All for a hit that Big Mom recovered from in no time at all. You also have to remember that there is a reason Jinbei stayed back on Whole Cake for them to escape. So he wouldn't be at Wano to get any big fights. Zoro and Sanji are young and full of potential, while Jinbei has almost maxed his potential. He could be past Zoro level, seeing as how he fought on par with Ace. With that being said, he won't be fighting any Yonko commanders this arc. Now Zoro and Sanji get their Ace fights. They grow far stronger. They surpass Jinbei. If he shows up, he won't be fighting someone stronger than who Sanji or Zoro are fighting.

 

Following the formula we're used to, Luffy vs No.1, Zoro vs No.2, Sanji vs No.3. Expect Luffy with co. against No.1, Zoro with co. against No.2, and Sanji with co. against No.3. If there is not company with them, they get one shot like what happened with Luffy 1v1 against Kaido. They have company and now they fight them for hours, getting strong enough to be on par or right below them by the end of the arc. That's what they need leaving this arc. To be able to take down a Yonko by themselves.

Or he won't, because captains have always been clearly superior than their subordinates, and it hasn't ever been close. Their bounties don't need to make a jump as quickly as Luffy's did, because their opponents won't make that kind of jump in strength. Luffy went from fighting a YC3 to a first mate, to now fighting a Yonko. His bounty reflects that. Zoro next few opponents aren't going to be any higher than YC1 and so on. 

YC1 bounties are over 1 billion. Heck, YC3 on Kaido's crew is 1 billion, and he is seen as the 2nd strongest Yonko beneath Shanks. So what are King and Queens bounties? If you can fight them for hours, your bounty will be 800 million, at bare minimum. Beat them and have a bird talk you up? 1.5 billion.

 

If Luffy is at 2 billion leaving this arc, his right hand man should be around 1 billion. Next in line 800-900 million at least.

 

Something else to add

 


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#7956 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 01:41 AM

Wait where is it stated that shanks is the strongest yonko

#7957 Phantom_999

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 11:40 AM

Theyre off!

 

He never said anything about MEEEEEEEE!!!!! :kukuku: FIRE!!!!!!!!!  *BOOM BOOM BOOM*


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#7958 LuckyChi7

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 01:28 PM

 

He never said anything about MEEEEEEEE!!!!! :kukuku: FIRE!!!!!!!!!  *BOOM BOOM BOOM*

 

Very true lol 


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#7959 AHK

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 09:29 PM

Zoro's bounty rose to 320,000,000 for defeating Pica. That's... nothing. Not in the New World. Daifuku was a Vergo on steroids, and both Oven and Daifuku led giant armies (because Smoothie got 0 spotlight). You don't lead a Yonko crew with the top dog out of commission if you aren't seen as very strong.

 

He doubled his bounty. It was pretty significant, for him. Daifuku was not a Vergo on steroids, in any capacity. He was never portrayed like that, at any point. Your last sentence is nothing more than speculation. Perospero is the oldest brother, led during the chase to combat the straw hats, but the entire crew recognizes Katakuri because he's stronger (seen within the last few chapters, even). You don't have to be the strongest to lead, you don't even have to be very strong. You're making up justifications to prop up Sanji, again. 

 

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Yeah, cool. Thanks for proving my point. Funny how you decided not to show the part where Sanji snuck up on Oven, and leaving out the context of the bottom panel where Bobbin had no idea Sanji was going to do anything to him. Again, he didn't best Oven, he snuck up on him to land the hit that you just showed. Also hit Bobbin when Bobbin didn't expect it. He didn't best Oven, and he didn't tank anything. 

He isn't on his level. He is a tier below it. He always will be. Forever and ever, within arms reach but never past him or quite equal to him.

 

Jinbei also was fighting a Big Mom that wasn't all there, and beside water that he could draw from. All for a hit that Big Mom recovered from in no time at all. You also have to remember that there is a reason Jinbei stayed back on Whole Cake for them to escape. So he wouldn't be at Wano to get any big fights. Zoro and Sanji are young and full of potential, while Jinbei has almost maxed his potential. He could be past Zoro level, seeing as how he fought on par with Ace. With that being said, he won't be fighting any Yonko commanders this arc. Now Zoro and Sanji get their Ace fights. They grow far stronger. They surpass Jinbei. If he shows up, he won't be fighting someone stronger than who Sanji or Zoro are fighting.

 

Following the formula we're used to, Luffy vs No.1, Zoro vs No.2, Sanji vs No.3. Expect Luffy with co. against No.1, Zoro with co. against No.2, and Sanji with co. against No.3. If there is not company with them, they get one shot like what happened with Luffy 1v1 against Kaido. They have company and now they fight them for hours, getting strong enough to be on par or right below them by the end of the arc. That's what they need leaving this arc. To be able to take down a Yonko by themselves.

 

Spoiler

YC1 bounties are over 1 billion. Heck, YC3 on Kaido's crew is 1 billion, and he is seen as the 2nd strongest Yonko beneath Shanks. So what are King and Queens bounties? If you can fight them for hours, your bounty will be 800 million, at bare minimum. Beat them and have a bird talk you up? 1.5 billion.

 

If Luffy is at 2 billion leaving this arc, his right hand man should be around 1 billion. Next in line 800-900 million at least.

 

Something else to add

 

spoiler

Edited by AHK, 04 March 2019 - 09:51 PM.

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"I am the One-Eyed King."

 

 


#7960 FoolishYoungling

FoolishYoungling

    Jirou is best girl.

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:28 AM

He didn't have to use the suit against Page One. Not to mention that you keep saying Sanji is not at Zoro's level and I keep agreeing with that. I never said Sanji=Zoro. I keep telling you that in no point in the series will it not be Sanji<Zoro. However, to assume that the big 3 will just cumble as Sanji gets left behind is insane considering Sanji JUST got a giant powerup. People like Law, Hawkins and Drake are gushing over the guy now. But now Sanji surpasses his black stealth legend, as he left his family to be a Straw Hat pirate.

 

If Sanji took care of Page One with ease in the first quarter of Wano arc, how massive will his next one or two foes be? He has attacked Big Mom, Vergo, and Doflamingo. The top dog of the last 4 arcs (not including Jack who was knocked away). He can't keep losing to them. Especially if the other Straw Hats are winning their fights. For example, Zoro can't have success in his Yonko commader fight while Sanji loses. And yes Sanji lost while others won in the past. That's because Sanji fought the toughest while Zoro and others took on much lesser opponents.

 

Proof that Sanji is already Yonko level


Left Hand to the Future Pirate King

 

Vinsmoke "Black Leg" Sanji

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