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What would be your Next Generations: Beginning?

Naruto Boruto Next Generations

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#21 NarutoUzumaki01

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 01:02 AM

story-wise, it would go nicely with his character to die for his beliefs. but my sentimental side would like everyone just to be together and nice and loving each other :c

 

if it was my manga i would probably just have had Sasuke killed off by Naruto himself and learn that not everyone can be saved, and tbh my point of view on things are more nihilistic so to broke the circle of hatred doesnt seem doable, at least not for a long time, thats just how humanity is? but yeah, seeing it realistically, nihilistically or idealistically its author's choice.

Yeah, always thought that Sasuke lived only because it's shonen. I would suggest that would left village with his team, and live somewhere around, maybe around that clan mountain he fought Itachi on, him and Karin being together might be a stretch but in a long term, uniting Uzumaki and Uchiha in such way would kind of end circle of hatred. 

 

But manga was shoinen, Sasuke would have death flags all over him.



#22 Khaleesi

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 01:08 AM

Yeah, always thought that Sasuke lived only because it's shonen. I would suggest that would left village with his team, and live somewhere around, maybe around that clan mountain he fought Itachi on, him and Karin being together might be a stretch but in a long term, uniting Uzumaki and Uchiha in such way would kind of end circle of hatred. 

 

But manga was shoinen, Sasuke would have death flags all over him.

Exactly, Sasuke didnt die because it's a classic shonen, not like Hunter x Hunter <3


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#23 Nate River

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 02:13 AM

I wouldn't want to start it from the next generation as in their kids.

I think I would have rather seen Naruto and Sakura and maybe Sasuke (would be kinda funny), take on a genin team. I think that would have been more interesting and would have. Had fresh faces compared to the genin team now that is of course a bit of a replica of the old rookie 9.

This would have given the chance to see someone else with different abilities as main protagonist. Which is something I would have preferred. It would have also given us the chance to see Naruto in a leadership role and make the orders/show us how he becomes Hokage.

I like this idea. It gives the series the ability to bootstrap itself Naruto's popularity while giving the series time to slowly shift to a new protagonist. It also allows for maximum flexibility with character relationships. It could be a relatively small time gap or a large one. You could do same pairings, no pairings, different pairings because such a series would force the story to keep the previous generation consistently involved. Less would have to be assumed and it makes it easier to watch the older generation still grow and change right along with the new one. It's pretty flexible in the stories it could tell.

 

If I were to do any next gen stuff though, I would want to erase everything post Pain. I think the decision to turn Naruto and Sasuke's conflict into a world-wide problem limited the number of stories that could be told in a new generation story without leaving the reader with the feeling that Naruto's accomplishments were being undone. I would streamline the path to retrieving Sasuke and keep their conflict as personal to them possible and end Naruto with a desire to see their success expanded to other places. I would also probably try to limit the reach of Sasuke's bad acts, so he wouldn't have to be completely kicked out of the village or have to go on a decade long journey of penance. 



#24 Shashank95

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 09:13 AM

For me, it would have started with Sasuke's death. Let's be honest, he was way out of reach of any sort of logical redemption. We know he only survived cause Kishi is way too obsessed with Sasuke.

He was a villain, who needed to go. So for me, Sasuke stays the bad guy he was supposed to be. He goes ape-mental as usual, talks about destroying the ninja system blah blah blah. 

Naruto and Sasuke duke it out. Naruto uses TNJ. Sasuke is immune. So they end up putting holes in each other's body. *Insert over-used Sakura arrives on scene and is torn between saving Naruto and Sasuke trope*

Sasuke dies. Naruto and Sakura struggle to come to terms with it. Some dark times with them trying to overcome the mental damage caused by Sasuke's death. 

They come to terms with it after some sage advice by *insert any old veteran shinobi*

Their friendship resumes. But both Naruto and Sakura have some skeletons in their closet to deal with, as in Sakura's confession and CPR coupled with Naruto's promised confession and girlfriend comment.

Everything ends happily with Naruto becoming Hokage a few years down the line and Sakura as his wife. Ends with Naruto getting the Hokage hat and putting it on as the screen fades to black.

 

Throw in some Gai and Lee training montages. Lee coming to terms with his master's injuries and vowing to become a greater shinobi than Gai and goes to run around Konoha with a 1000KG  leg weight strapped to his feet.

 


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#25 lupina

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 12:56 PM

I recently had the Idea of Sasuke tracking down the Otsotsuki Clan with Karins' help (since she's a tracker ...). They have a child, Anzu, who lived with them for a while, but left her behind in the village when it got too dangerous. When Naruto, who hasn't seen Sasuke in years due to his Mission, finds out about that (he didn't know Sasuke had a wife and a child) he insists on Anzu living with his Family when Sasuke is away, because he knows exactly how it feels to be lonely and hated by everybody in the village (Sasuke was pardoned, but People are still negative about him/the Uchiha Clan).


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#26 tricksie

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 03:32 PM

If I were to do any next gen stuff though, I would want to erase everything post Pain. I think the decision to turn Naruto and Sasuke's conflict into a world-wide problem limited the number of stories that could be told in a new generation story without leaving the reader with the feeling that Naruto's accomplishments were being undone. I would streamline the path to retrieving Sasuke and keep their conflict as personal to them possible and end Naruto with a desire to see their success expanded to other places. I would also probably try to limit the reach of Sasuke's bad acts, so he wouldn't have to be completely kicked out of the village or have to go on a decade long journey of penance. 

Completely agree. Their whole story hinges nicely around Pain. After that, it spirals out of control quickly. If anything, you could have a post-Pain story be the set up for how they are going to become Team 7 adults: are they the Legendary Sannin all over again? Or something new?

 

And I agree with both you and Shashank below — either deal with Sasuke so that he's able to make a believable entry back into the storyline (without destroying others character arcs like Sakura's) or kill him off. 

 

For me, it would have started with Sasuke's death. Let's be honest, he was way out of reach of any sort of logical redemption. We know he only survived cause Kishi is way too obsessed with Sasuke.

He was a villain, who needed to go. So for me, Sasuke stays the bad guy he was supposed to be. He goes ape-mental as usual, talks about destroying the ninja system blah blah blah. 

I'm of two minds about Sasuke. Either 1) really dig in and make him an awesomely flawed bittersweet villain, letting his choice dangle till then end — will he turn back or no? will Naruto save him or no? will this threaten to pull Naruto into the dark side or no? will he break Sakura's heart or no? — then either save him with some fitting lifelong punishment (he becomes a blind monk somewhere) or he goes out in a blaze of baddy glory.

 

Or 2) have him be redeemed in a real, meaningful way that restores him to the story arc and as an integral, if not always seen, part of Team 7/future of Konoha. The plot lines are there to support this too, with the failure of the Legendary Sannin to save/turn Orochimaru back to the good side. If Naruto was able to do this, he would not only be saving his friend and making a safer future for their village, he would be fixing the mistakes of the last generation in doing what they could not.

 

Clearly, the manga didn't go in any of these directions. Instead they went the easiest path to having a marketable next gen. Disappointing.

 

I really thought there would be one last arc, of a year or more, tightly focused on Team 7. And especially after Sasuke announced he was going back to take over Konoha as hokage (which he forgot by the next chapter). I thought for sure there was going to be a major victory and lots of public harmony underscored by a quiet private struggle inside Team 7 about who was going to come out on top - with Sakura trying to mediate between them. Just like in their beginning Team 7 days. And depending on how that struggle ended, the Next Gen (an uneven mix of a few new children, some new nins and a few now-older rookies) would deal with that struggle.

 

Either Sasuke would be the Hokage — in which case the tone of rule in the village could flip, with the dark on top instead of the light (like Naruto and Tsunade, like ROOT vs. Leaf) — and it could be very secret, hardcore ninjas working from behind an unknowing civilian population. And Naruto could be the one pulling away (Sasuke's old position), while Sakura is more deeply torn than ever, serving her village but secretly supporting Naruto, in a way she never did for Sasuke before, thereyby proving her loyalty to one and exposing her to trouble from the other. 

 

Or Naruto would be the Hokage, and the rule of law would be light over dark. Perhaps Sasuke would be out of the village or he would be put in charge of ROOT, as a way to appease him since he lost the power struggle for Hokage. This sets up a redo of the problem from generations past of the Senju placating the Uchiha with the military police position in the village. So is it a new generation, or just the same old struggle. Thus they have to solve it in a new way.

 

I would have some new Uchihas be discovered, some with no powers, some with awakening ones. Orphans or families who separated from Konoha a few generations back. I would also have some of the stories about the other clans — Senju, Uzumaki and Namikaze — be filled out. Maybe even a few new characters from those. 

 

And again, I wouldn't have it be a wave of next gen babies. Just an overlap of a few children who want to be nins, new nins who've come of age and new adults who've come to the village, in addition to the regular cast of characters already in place. Not, "Here's the new nin babies, ready to go fight. Everyone else stop working, even though you're only 25. Oh yeah, and everything's computerized. Believe it!"



#27 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 04:01 PM

Completely agree. Their whole story hinges nicely around Pain. After that, it spirals out of control quickly. If anything, you could have a post-Pain story be the set up for how they are going to become Team 7 adults: are they the Legendary Sannin all over again? Or something new?

 

And I agree with both you and Shashank below — either deal with Sasuke so that he's able to make a believable entry back into the storyline (without destroying others character arcs like Sakura's) or kill him off. 

 

I'm of two minds about Sasuke. Either 1) really dig in and make him an awesomely flawed bittersweet villain, letting his choice dangle till then end — will he turn back or no? will Naruto save him or no? will this threaten to pull Naruto into the dark side or no? will he break Sakura's heart or no? — then either save him with some fitting lifelong punishment (he becomes a blind monk somewhere) or he goes out in a blaze of baddy glory.

 

Or 2) have him be redeemed in a real, meaningful way that restores him to the story arc and as an integral, if not always seen, part of Team 7/future of Konoha. The plot lines are there to support this too, with the failure of the Legendary Sannin to save/turn Orochimaru back to the good side. If Naruto was able to do this, he would not only be saving his friend and making a safer future for their village, he would be fixing the mistakes of the last generation in doing what they could not.

 

Clearly, the manga didn't go in any of these directions. Instead they went the easiest path to having a marketable next gen. Disappointing.

 

I really thought there would be one last arc, of a year or more, tightly focused on Team 7. And especially after Sasuke announced he was going back to take over Konoha as hokage (which he forgot by the next chapter). I thought for sure there was going to be a major victory and lots of public harmony underscored by a quiet private struggle inside Team 7 about who was going to come out on top - with Sakura trying to mediate between them. Just like in their beginning Team 7 days. And depending on how that struggle ended, the Next Gen (an uneven mix of a few new children, some new nins and a few now-older rookies) would deal with that struggle.

 

Either Sasuke would be the Hokage — in which case the tone of rule in the village could flip, with the dark on top instead of the light (like Naruto and Tsunade, like ROOT vs. Leaf) — and it could be very secret, hardcore ninjas working from behind an unknowing civilian population. And Naruto could be the one pulling away (Sasuke's old position), while Sakura is more deeply torn than ever, serving her village but secretly supporting Naruto, in a way she never did for Sasuke before, thereyby proving her loyalty to one and exposing her to trouble from the other. 

 

Or Naruto would be the Hokage, and the rule of law would be light over dark. Perhaps Sasuke would be out of the village or he would be put in charge of ROOT, as a way to appease him since he lost the power struggle for Hokage. This sets up a redo of the problem from generations past of the Senju placating the Uchiha with the military police position in the village. So is it a new generation, or just the same old struggle. Thus they have to solve it in a new way.

 

I would have some new Uchihas be discovered, some with no powers, some with awakening ones. Orphans or families who separated from Konoha a few generations back. I would also have some of the stories about the other clans — Senju, Uzumaki and Namikaze — be filled out. Maybe even a few new characters from those. 

 

And again, I wouldn't have it be a wave of next gen babies. Just an overlap of a few children who want to be nins, new nins who've come of age and new adults who've come to the village, in addition to the regular cast of characters already in place. Not, "Here's the new nin babies, ready to go fight. Everyone else stop working, even though you're only 25. Oh yeah, and everything's computerized. Believe it!"

 

WOW.... you really, REALLY gave this a lot of thought Tricks! There's a lot I am gonna need to go through in order to understand it all, hon, but I'll make sure to look at it.

 

Now I am gonna have to do some deep thinking on how i would wanna do all of this.



#28 Analyzer

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 04:35 PM

Completely agree. Their whole story hinges nicely around Pain. After that, it spirals out of control quickly. If anything, you could have a post-Pain story be the set up for how they are going to become Team 7 adults: are they the Legendary Sannin all over again? Or something new?

 

And I agree with both you and Shashank below — either deal with Sasuke so that he's able to make a believable entry back into the storyline (without destroying others character arcs like Sakura's) or kill him off. 

 

I'm of two minds about Sasuke. Either 1) really dig in and make him an awesomely flawed bittersweet villain, letting his choice dangle till then end — will he turn back or no? will Naruto save him or no? will this threaten to pull Naruto into the dark side or no? will he break Sakura's heart or no? — then either save him with some fitting lifelong punishment (he becomes a blind monk somewhere) or he goes out in a blaze of baddy glory.

 

Or 2) have him be redeemed in a real, meaningful way that restores him to the story arc and as an integral, if not always seen, part of Team 7/future of Konoha. The plot lines are there to support this too, with the failure of the Legendary Sannin to save/turn Orochimaru back to the good side. If Naruto was able to do this, he would not only be saving his friend and making a safer future for their village, he would be fixing the mistakes of the last generation in doing what they could not.

 

Clearly, the manga didn't go in any of these directions. Instead they went the easiest path to having a marketable next gen. Disappointing.

 

I really thought there would be one last arc, of a year or more, tightly focused on Team 7. And especially after Sasuke announced he was going back to take over Konoha as hokage (which he forgot by the next chapter). I thought for sure there was going to be a major victory and lots of public harmony underscored by a quiet private struggle inside Team 7 about who was going to come out on top - with Sakura trying to mediate between them. Just like in their beginning Team 7 days. And depending on how that struggle ended, the Next Gen (an uneven mix of a few new children, some new nins and a few now-older rookies) would deal with that struggle.

 

Either Sasuke would be the Hokage — in which case the tone of rule in the village could flip, with the dark on top instead of the light (like Naruto and Tsunade, like ROOT vs. Leaf) — and it could be very secret, hardcore ninjas working from behind an unknowing civilian population. And Naruto could be the one pulling away (Sasuke's old position), while Sakura is more deeply torn than ever, serving her village but secretly supporting Naruto, in a way she never did for Sasuke before, thereyby proving her loyalty to one and exposing her to trouble from the other. 

 

Or Naruto would be the Hokage, and the rule of law would be light over dark. Perhaps Sasuke would be out of the village or he would be put in charge of ROOT, as a way to appease him since he lost the power struggle for Hokage. This sets up a redo of the problem from generations past of the Senju placating the Uchiha with the military police position in the village. So is it a new generation, or just the same old struggle. Thus they have to solve it in a new way.

 

I would have some new Uchihas be discovered, some with no powers, some with awakening ones. Orphans or families who separated from Konoha a few generations back. I would also have some of the stories about the other clans — Senju, Uzumaki and Namikaze — be filled out. Maybe even a few new characters from those. 

 

And again, I wouldn't have it be a wave of next gen babies. Just an overlap of a few children who want to be nins, new nins who've come of age and new adults who've come to the village, in addition to the regular cast of characters already in place. Not, "Here's the new nin babies, ready to go fight. Everyone else stop working, even though you're only 25. Oh yeah, and everything's computerized. Believe it!"

 

Interesting thoughts.

 

The Pain arc is key for Naruto to do anything about Sasuke, and thus would keep the Naruto and Sasuke parts in. The Naruto and Sasuke bits suffer not from late execution but early part one execution. Had the bond got this substantiation early on, a lot of part two issues and narrative telling of the bond would be a lot smoother. What is so special about the Pain Arc is it works almost stand alone, much before it and what happens after requires other preceding elements.

 

Given the nature of this drive, and the type of ending desired, there really wasn't any other ending besides Sasuke surviving. There was no narrative chance of Sasuke becoming Hokage, as that's not how it worked. He didn't really forget about it either, he just was plain defeated.He is not an unsympathetic villain, though he was still wrong about things. It's also fitting he -isn't- given a lifelong punishment, as it would clash with the established theme of forgiveness.  I do also think a lot of what is presented as possibilities in the last fight tension wise -is- done. In the moment, we are wondering who will win (Naruto by narrative tendency, but a twist is still possible), or if he will break her heart or not (699 and even 693 to an extent), or if Naruto would have to end up killing him. I also -do- think Sasuke was saved in a meaningful way, full of imagery and powerful monologue towards the end, -and- know that Naruto did do what the previous sanin and his predecessors could not. 

 

I like that Team 7 are not the legendary sanin, they have surpassed them and all strive to protect the world, be it medicine, leadership, or investigating Kaguya.

 

I am not sure what is meant by destroying Sakura's Arc. Unless there was another arc, catching up to Naruto and Sasuke and not being a burden was completed?

 

The Dark on top with a Sasuke victory has potential for an AU, but again, I don't really ever see him being recognized as Hokage in it, or his plan working. 

 

My only issue with the new gen complaint is it is a method of showing happily ever after. It is not necessarily the only choice, but it's potential for expansion both before their existence and after is noteworthy amongst other choices. I find money making complaints odd in general, as frankly, who cares, as long as what you are getting is quality material,  and I sincerely think the last volume is quality material all in all. I do like the new story's portrayal so far, because it keeps Naruto's goal's a realistic achievement of piece, rather than some unrealistic utopia. 

 

I meant to actually discuss what I would change rather than point out reasons why things were they way they were and defend against these points a bit, but I think I would truly change little. I really like the ideas of focusing on pre-Boruto times for a bit first though, but I can't think of much else. Perhaps that is because I recognize that it is so easy to say what we would change and make subjectively better, but being committed to a fifteen year manga with such popularity and acclaim is an astounding feat few can attain. Still fun to ponder what ifs, though. 


Edited by Analyzer, 19 October 2017 - 04:36 PM.


#29 tricksie

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 03:53 PM

 

WOW.... you really, REALLY gave this a lot of thought Tricks! There's a lot I am gonna need to go through in order to understand it all, hon, but I'll make sure to look at it.

 

Now I am gonna have to do some deep thinking on how i would wanna do all of this.

Hahaha! Yeah, I guess I have. More along the lines of 'what was I expecting' and 'what would i have done differently if it were up to me.' And I guess it helps that I've been trying to finish up fanfics — so that makes my imagination hop around like a million plot bunnies!  :D

 

It's a shame Kishimoto didn't circle back to his Part 1 themes to wrap up the end. So that's kind of what I'm going on. Either having a last arc based on a grown up Team 7 and their grown up power struggles. Or a last arc based on facing the same problems the Legendary Sannin faced. Kishimoto shows lots of parallel examples of two dudes fighting, or whole teams being torn apart by internal struggles (jealousy and/or love), but he doesn't adequately show how Naruto and Sasuke and Sakura uniquely overcome these issues better than anyone else who's come before them.

 

As I've said before, Naruto and Sasuke fight, and then Kishi slaps an end on it. But the big questions and themes of them breaking the mold are buried under the surprise shipping-heavy ending.

 

So to me, it's like an unfinished story. There are so many ways it could have gone. It's easy for the plot bunnies to go wild.

 

 

Interesting thoughts.

 

The Pain arc is key for Naruto to do anything about Sasuke, and thus would keep the Naruto and Sasuke parts in. The Naruto and Sasuke bits suffer not from late execution but early part one execution. Had the bond got this substantiation early on, a lot of part two issues and narrative telling of the bond would be a lot smoother. What is so special about the Pain Arc is it works almost stand alone, much before it and what happens after requires other preceding elements.

 

Given the nature of this drive, and the type of ending desired, there really wasn't any other ending besides Sasuke surviving. There was no narrative chance of Sasuke becoming Hokage, as that's not how it worked. He didn't really forget about it either, he just was plain defeated.He is not an unsympathetic villain, though he was still wrong about things. It's also fitting he -isn't- given a lifelong punishment, as it would clash with the established theme of forgiveness.  I do also think a lot of what is presented as possibilities in the last fight tension wise -is- done. In the moment, we are wondering who will win (Naruto by narrative tendency, but a twist is still possible), or if he will break her heart or not (699 and even 693 to an extent), or if Naruto would have to end up killing him. I also -do- think Sasuke was saved in a meaningful way, full of imagery and powerful monologue towards the end, -and- know that Naruto did do what the previous sanin and his predecessors could not. 

 

I like that Team 7 are not the legendary sanin, they have surpassed them and all strive to protect the world, be it medicine, leadership, or investigating Kaguya.

 

I am not sure what is meant by destroying Sakura's Arc. Unless there was another arc, catching up to Naruto and Sasuke and not being a burden was completed?

 

The Dark on top with a Sasuke victory has potential for an AU, but again, I don't really ever see him being recognized as Hokage in it, or his plan working. 

 

My only issue with the new gen complaint is it is a method of showing happily ever after. It is not necessarily the only choice, but it's potential for expansion both before their existence and after is noteworthy amongst other choices. I find money making complaints odd in general, as frankly, who cares, as long as what you are getting is quality material,  and I sincerely think the last volume is quality material all in all. I do like the new story's portrayal so far, because it keeps Naruto's goal's a realistic achievement of piece, rather than some unrealistic utopia. 

 

I meant to actually discuss what I would change rather than point out reasons why things were they way they were and defend against these points a bit, but I think I would truly change little. I really like the ideas of focusing on pre-Boruto times for a bit first though, but I can't think of much else. Perhaps that is because I recognize that it is so easy to say what we would change and make subjectively better, but being committed to a fifteen year manga with such popularity and acclaim is an astounding feat few can attain. Still fun to ponder what ifs, though. 

So these are all what-if scenarios — no situations are off the table. Every scenario is valid. And it's okay that you don't think they could happen — I do, for the stated reasons, and no offense, I haven't seen anything from your post that would make me change my mind. Just because it was written one way in the actual manga doesn't mean it couldn't have gone a million different ways at some point.

 

And yeah, I don't think Kishimoto picked the best ending or ending scenario for the characters. For lots of reasons I've stated over and over. (So I won't do it again here - lol.) But to say we have to accept that he knows best because he is the author or had a long and popular run is flawed. 

 

As the creator, Kishi didn't like the shipping — we know this because he complained about the female characters and shipping at almost every con/festa he went to. So to throw over the whole 15+year manga for a surprise shipping ending is competely out-of-character for him. Which is why so many people look at this as a marketing move to produce another spin-off. And I do too. 

 

As for Kishi's track record, just because he's had a long run of it doesn't mean it's the only interpretation. Or the final say. Or even the right choice. Writers/artists/creators get it wrong, no matter how popular or infallible you might think they are. They miss they mark, they bail out, they get bored. Or they get lured away to other projects. 

 

Personally, long before the botched ending, I think Kishimoto bailed on Naruto in favor of Sasuke. Literally bailed. About halfway thrugh, the story began to revolve around Sasuke and it never stopped. I think the spark has been gone for Kishi for a long time.

 

But to say someone's wrong because it can only be the way it's presented in the manga or anime, or that Kishimoto is right because he's a Writer or an Artist with a fill-in-the-blank amount of time in his profession is the wrong attitude for this thread. If you don't agree with a 'What if' scenario, you can post your own. Out-of-the-box thinking is welcome here.



#30 Analyzer

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 03:58 PM

Hahaha! Yeah, I guess I have. More along the lines of 'what was I expecting' and 'what would i have done differently if it were up to me.' And I guess it helps that I've been trying to finish up fanfics — so that makes my imagination hop around like a million plot bunnies!  :D

 

It's a shame Kishimoto didn't circle back to his Part 1 themes to wrap up the end. So that's kind of what I'm going on. Either having a last arc based on a grown up Team 7 and their grown up power struggles. Or a last arc based on facing the same problems the Legendary Sannin faced. Kishimoto shows lots of parallel examples of two dudes fighting, or whole teams being torn apart by internal struggles (jealousy and/or love), but he doesn't adequately show how Naruto and Sasuke and Sakura uniquely overcome these issues better than anyone else who's come before them.

 

As I've said before, Naruto and Sasuke fight, and then Kishi slaps an end on it. But the big questions and themes of them breaking the mold are buried under the surprise shipping-heavy ending.

 

So to me, it's like an unfinished story. There are so many ways it could have gone. It's easy for the plot bunnies to go wild.

 

So these are all what-if scenarios — no situations are off the table. Every scenario is valid. And it's okay that you don't think they could happen — I do, for the stated reasons, and no offense, I haven't seen anything from your post that would make me change my mind. Just because it was written one way in the actual manga doesn't mean it couldn't have gone a million different ways at some point.

 

And yeah, I don't think Kishimoto picked the best ending or ending scenario for the characters. For lots of reasons I've stated over and over. (So I won't do it again here - lol.) But to say we have to accept that he knows best because he is the author or had a long and popular run is flawed. 

 

As the creator, Kishi didn't like the shipping — we know this because he complained about the female characters and shipping at almost every con/festa he went to. So to throw over the whole 15+year manga for a surprise shipping ending is competely out-of-character for him. Which is why so many people look at this as a marketing move to produce another spin-off. And I do too. 

 

As for Kishi's track record, just because he's had a long run of it doesn't mean it's the only interpretation. Or the final say. Or even the right choice. Writers/artists/creators get it wrong, no matter how popular or infallible you might think they are. They miss they mark, they bail out, they get bored. Or they get lured away to other projects. 

 

Personally, long before the botched ending, I think Kishimoto bailed on Naruto in favor of Sasuke. Literally bailed. About halfway thrugh, the story began to revolve around Sasuke and it never stopped. I think the spark has been gone for Kishi for a long time.

 

But to say someone's wrong because it can only be the way it's presented in the manga or anime, or that Kishimoto is right because he's a Writer or an Artist with a fill-in-the-blank amount of time in his profession is the wrong attitude for this thread. If you don't agree with a 'What if' scenario, you can post your own. Out-of-the-box thinking is welcome here.

 

That's fine, really, I was mostly trying to show why the narrative flow went the course it did, I think. Absolutely correct that there are endless possibilities for as long as the imagination stretches, but I understand why Kishimoto picked the ones he did. 


Edited by Analyzer, 20 October 2017 - 03:59 PM.


#31 Namaenash

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 04:50 PM

Completely agree. Their whole story hinges nicely around Pain. After that, it spirals out of control quickly. If anything, you could have a post-Pain story be the set up for how they are going to become Team 7 adults: are they the Legendary Sannin all over again? Or something new?

 

And I agree with both you and Shashank below — either deal with Sasuke so that he's able to make a believable entry back into the storyline (without destroying others character arcs like Sakura's) or kill him off. 

 

I'm of two minds about Sasuke. Either 1) really dig in and make him an awesomely flawed bittersweet villain, letting his choice dangle till then end — will he turn back or no? will Naruto save him or no? will this threaten to pull Naruto into the dark side or no? will he break Sakura's heart or no? — then either save him with some fitting lifelong punishment (he becomes a blind monk somewhere) or he goes out in a blaze of baddy glory.

 

Or 2) have him be redeemed in a real, meaningful way that restores him to the story arc and as an integral, if not always seen, part of Team 7/future of Konoha. The plot lines are there to support this too, with the failure of the Legendary Sannin to save/turn Orochimaru back to the good side. If Naruto was able to do this, he would not only be saving his friend and making a safer future for their village, he would be fixing the mistakes of the last generation in doing what they could not.

 

Clearly, the manga didn't go in any of these directions. Instead they went the easiest path to having a marketable next gen. Disappointing.

 

I really thought there would be one last arc, of a year or more, tightly focused on Team 7. And especially after Sasuke announced he was going back to take over Konoha as hokage (which he forgot by the next chapter). I thought for sure there was going to be a major victory and lots of public harmony underscored by a quiet private struggle inside Team 7 about who was going to come out on top - with Sakura trying to mediate between them. Just like in their beginning Team 7 days. And depending on how that struggle ended, the Next Gen (an uneven mix of a few new children, some new nins and a few now-older rookies) would deal with that struggle.

 

Either Sasuke would be the Hokage — in which case the tone of rule in the village could flip, with the dark on top instead of the light (like Naruto and Tsunade, like ROOT vs. Leaf) — and it could be very secret, hardcore ninjas working from behind an unknowing civilian population. And Naruto could be the one pulling away (Sasuke's old position), while Sakura is more deeply torn than ever, serving her village but secretly supporting Naruto, in a way she never did for Sasuke before, thereyby proving her loyalty to one and exposing her to trouble from the other. 

 

Or Naruto would be the Hokage, and the rule of law would be light over dark. Perhaps Sasuke would be out of the village or he would be put in charge of ROOT, as a way to appease him since he lost the power struggle for Hokage. This sets up a redo of the problem from generations past of the Senju placating the Uchiha with the military police position in the village. So is it a new generation, or just the same old struggle. Thus they have to solve it in a new way.

 

I would have some new Uchihas be discovered, some with no powers, some with awakening ones. Orphans or families who separated from Konoha a few generations back. I would also have some of the stories about the other clans — Senju, Uzumaki and Namikaze — be filled out. Maybe even a few new characters from those. 

 

And again, I wouldn't have it be a wave of next gen babies. Just an overlap of a few children who want to be nins, new nins who've come of age and new adults who've come to the village, in addition to the regular cast of characters already in place. Not, "Here's the new nin babies, ready to go fight. Everyone else stop working, even though you're only 25. Oh yeah, and everything's computerized. Believe it!"

 

This is brilliant. I suppose most of us agree that if there's any what-if plot to be written, it would be right after Pein Arc.

 

I always thought that death would be a good conclusion for both Naruto and Sasuke. Either both of them dies, or Sasuke lives redeeming himself while Naruto dies to make it happen. As for Sakura, for me it's enough that she acknowledged her true feelings for Naruto. NS having happy family was (to be honest) never really crossed my mind. At most, if all of them lives, I would prefer it to be concluded similar to how Slam Dunk concluded their romance focus. Acknowledged and returned from Sakura side, but let the readers figure out what happens next. Show, don't tell.

 

As for new generation, if I were given the mandate, it'll start with time skip in hundred years time after the current Naruto timeline. It would start with new children with unknown origins trying to find out the way of ninja. There will be no technological advances. They are a mix of descendants from original character, as well as new characters surfacing. There will still be ninja villages and we'll see many hokage faces crafted on the mountain. But we will not see Naruto's face. We'll see Sasuke's instead, known for (what you've nicely put) ruling the village on a darker tone.

 

And then as the new generation story progresses, the remnants of the past starts to peel off bits by bits. It'll let the readers guess how did Naruto and Sasuke's fight was concluded? What happened after that? What happened to Sakura, Kakashi and others? How would they deal with the false history made by ruling hokages? How they'd accept the hard truth and deal with it, etc.


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"I'm sorry I didn't believe. But I'd given up believing in so much, until I met you. From the first day I saw you, you were everything I ever wanted to believe in. You can do this, Diana. I know you can...But I have to go."

"What? What are you saying?"

"It's okay, this is what I came here to do. I can save today, but you... you can save the world."


#32 Analyzer

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 04:57 PM

 

This is brilliant. I suppose most of us agree that if there's any what-if plot to be written, it would be right after Pein Arc.

 

I always thought that death would be a good conclusion for both Naruto and Sasuke. Either both of them dies, or Sasuke lives redeeming himself while Naruto dies to make it happen. As for Sakura, for me it's enough that she acknowledged her true feelings for Naruto. NS having happy family was (to be honest) never really crossed my mind. At most, if all of them lives, I would prefer it to be concluded similar to how Slam Dunk concluded their romance focus. Acknowledged and returned from Sakura side, but let the readers figure out what happens next. Show, don't tell.

 

As for new generation, if I were given the mandate, it'll start with time skip in hundred years time after the current Naruto timeline. It would start with new children with unknown origins trying to find out the way of ninja. There will be no technological advances. They are a mix of descendants from original character, as well as new characters surfacing. There will still be ninja villages and we'll see many hokage faces crafted on the mountain. But we will not see Naruto's face. We'll see Sasuke's instead, known for (what you've nicely put) ruling the village on a darker tone.

 

And then as the new generation story progresses, the remnants of the past starts to peel off bits by bits. It'll let the readers guess how did Naruto and Sasuke's fight was concluded? What happened after that? What happened to Sakura, Kakashi and others? How would they deal with the false history made by ruling hokages? How they'd accept the hard truth and deal with it, etc.

 

When I first read Naruto's proclamation to Sasuke about them both dying, while I was reading the last arc week by week I legitimately wondered if that was going to happen in this really sort of tragic ending of sorts...given that the world would end, unless Kakashi or Sakura found a way to restore things without them, and it would still be tragic even then, given the cycle of hatred wouldn't really be fixed then.



#33 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 05:34 PM

Hahaha! Yeah, I guess I have. More along the lines of 'what was I expecting' and 'what would i have done differently if it were up to me.' And I guess it helps that I've been trying to finish up fanfics — so that makes my imagination hop around like a million plot bunnies!  :D

 

It's a shame Kishimoto didn't circle back to his Part 1 themes to wrap up the end. So that's kind of what I'm going on. Either having a last arc based on a grown up Team 7 and their grown up power struggles. Or a last arc based on facing the same problems the Legendary Sannin faced. Kishimoto shows lots of parallel examples of two dudes fighting, or whole teams being torn apart by internal struggles (jealousy and/or love), but he doesn't adequately show how Naruto and Sasuke and Sakura uniquely overcome these issues better than anyone else who's come before them.

 

As I've said before, Naruto and Sasuke fight, and then Kishi slaps an end on it. But the big questions and themes of them breaking the mold are buried under the surprise shipping-heavy ending.

 

So to me, it's like an unfinished story. There are so many ways it could have gone. It's easy for the plot bunnies to go wild.

 

Trust me, Tricks, I got a big imagination too,  and that leads me to have all kinds of ideas to flow through for so much that I can't always keep track of it all.

 

And I agree. The fact that he failed in that department is a shame, since Part 1 had a lot of themes going for it, so circling back to that premise too that even with them repeating the same mistakes of the past that I had wanted to somehow see Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura overcome them together. And to see them being stronger for it.

 

I know with The Demon Within, even if I haven't written it in a long while, I would love to do that as well as developing how the feelings of them all, like Naruto and his drive to keep the bonds he has had, Sasuke overcoming his feelings of inferiority about others being stronger than him, and Sakura resolving her feelings for both.

 

It's one thing with Sasuke I feel, since you said it best about the story being incomplete right now because of the damn ending, that should have been covered is him overcoming his feelings of inferiority in regards to Itachi and how he hated him not only because of the massacre but the fact he was always seen as the better one in Fugaku's eyes, even if that was just because of Fugaku wanting his power for the coup.

 

I mean, a lot of his actions in the end, as rushed as it was, show Sasuke was mostly doing it to make HIMSELF feel better, not even showing he cared for Itachi's wish of him to understand the village, and his wanting to "erase the past" also was just a means to me to surpass Itachi for once since he never could even in the end fully.



#34 Analyzer

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 05:41 PM

It isn't the ending that is incomplete, it certainly is complete and closes and ties together the main story.

 

Here, or what you are describing, is that it is more that there are so many good ideas within Naruto that you could spin to its own arc or event or moment or whatever. The Uzumaki connection is just one of them. I like to point out Tenten finding the Sage's weapons as another. Another entire fifteen years could probably be spent exhausting the endless tellable stories of Naruto's world, which is both wonderful and frustrating in that you can't get all of those stories. But it is difficult to argue that the world of Naruto isn't rich and lush with imaginative possibilities for additional plots.

 

The other thing is, reality wise exploring every single one runs into time constraints and plot bogging. I think that's oft forgotten. 



#35 Lid

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 07:11 PM

I wouldn't want to start it from the next generation as in their kids.

I think I would have rather seen Naruto and Sakura and maybe Sasuke (would be kinda funny), take on a genin team. I think that would have been more interesting and would have. Had fresh faces compared to the genin team now that is of course a bit of a replica of the old rookie 9.

This would have given the chance to see someone else with different abilities as main protagonist. Which is something I would have preferred. It would have also given us the chance to see Naruto in a leadership role and make the orders/show us how he becomes Hokage.

 

I really agree with the sentiments here, as well as those from James, Nate and Tricks.

 

I don't necessarily need to see what Naruto is like as a father in a series. In an epilogue, sure no problem. But for a full series? Nah.

 

Of course the obvious thing from me is wanting a NaruSaku ending. On top of that, I'd also like to see either Naruto and Sakura teaching a Genin squad or Naruto preparing to become Hokage. Also, definitely include Sakura becoming the greatest medic in the world. Maybe something dealing with ROOT, too, which I felt was sadly left at the wayside. Also, have Sasuke either die or get legitimately redeemed, have him go through realizing that he really screwed up. 


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#36 Narut0Uzumak1

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 11:29 PM

Well I would definitely style things differently from what the studio went with, and weirdly enough I'd go with something different to what others here have been saying as well.

 

There are several scenarios for me. I've written fanfics with these scenarios actually taking place so this topic is rather close to me lol.

 

Bear in mind that my style as a writer is to focus the plot around the relationships between characters. As such, these scenarios may seem weird.

 

1) Naruto and Sakura live a life akin to what LadyGT93 has them living in her fantastic and highly recommendable works. They have an 8 year old daughter, and a 12 year old son about to graduate from the academy. It's a time of great strife as Onoki died and was replaced by an anti-Konoha hardliner, as such relationships have broken down between the two villages. As a new war brews, Naruto and Sakura have to explain to their children as well as to the children of their friends about war and what it entails as well as how to deal with it. 

 

2) Naruto left the village as soon as the war ended to go on a trip to ensure peace among the villages in this new era he created. He left abruptly and without warning, heartbroken after witnessing a scene between Sakura and Sasuke that he misunderstands as them beginning a relationship. He returns X years later ( I went with 12 just to add sufficient time, although 6 is far better and 8 a more acceptable time ) only to find that Sakura is not in a relationship with Sasuke and is instead waiting on a certain individual. He accidentally bumps into a child of one of his comrades and becomes their sensei. Sakura is also the sensei of a genin team. A rivalry exists between one of the genin from Sakura's team, and Naruto's student. The relationship between Naruto and Sakura develops as the genin compete for glory, as well as work together to get their teachers together at last.

 

3) Since Naruto was the child of prophecy destined to bring peace, this scenario has no war and instead focuses on competition between the villages as well as individual genin. Just the children of the Konoha 12 ( well, 11 considering Neji, but still....) trying to gain honour for their village and meeting, fighting, hating, and falling in love with a whole host of new faces.

 

4) Naruto has neglected his son in favour of his twin sister, who has inherited a portion of the nine tails. As such, his son feels like an outcast and abandons his family name and eventually Konoha. Yeah, Naruto is very OOC as he would never abandon anyone, but still.

 

5) Due to a high number of injuries following the fight with Sasuke, Naruto can no longer perform ninjutsu, as such he is relegated to a citizen. A highly revered citizen but a citizen no less. He and Sakura's son, a recently graduated genin, considers him useless and an embarrassment. Only when he and his class hears the tale of Naruto Uzumaki and through a jutsu in which they actually see what Naruto did does he reconsider his opinions of his father. Soon Naruto regains the ability to use chakra, as such he is reinstated and becomes a jounin sensei. He becomes the leader of a new Team 7, which doesn't include his son. Insert jealousy here.

 

I've got a few others but really, these ones are the ones that popped into mind.

 

I know they're weird, but I like exploring the dynamics of relationships and the anatomy of the human emotion.


Edited by Narut0Uzumak1, 22 October 2017 - 11:31 PM.






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