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RulesofNature

Member Since 25 Nov 2017
Offline Last Active Nov 26 2020 09:14 PM

#981225 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 17 October 2020 - 07:53 PM

Clearly, the damage control or brand reputation management doesn't work.

The franchise lost 85%-90% of its revenue. Kishi's new manga flopped. Etc.

And the thing is, I don't know how they could ever undo the damage. It's not just the pairing, but so much of the writing has been devalued or twisted in order to keep the franchise going. Like, we can all point out various morals, good morals, that the series did a 180 on at the end. Stuff like hard work over natural talent, or that the ninja system turns people into weapons. Even the bonds of the characters have been shattered, because let me tell you reading the manga there's no indication that Hinata is anywhere close to the level of importance in Naruto's life than Sasuke is. They even killed off Neji in order to give NaruHina a moment, only to turn around and say that the moment didn't amount to much since Naruto didn't talk to Hinata again until years later.

 

It's a mess, there's no justification for what they did and nothing short of massive retcons, timeline BS, or the like will ever fix it.




#980820 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 27 September 2020 - 01:41 PM

I find it interesting how in Japan manga is the more looked at compared to anime in Japan, while in the West you probably find people watching anime more than reading manga. Which does explain alot about the western fanbase views on Naruto given how bad Studio Perriot was with the adaption and portrayal of some of the character's.

This may also be a bit of a cultural thing as well, as I find in countries like the USA and UK you will probably find people's knowledge about superheroes will mostly like come from the shows and movie adaptions rather than the comics themselves.

Same can be said for books with Harry Potter, Lord of the rings and a song of ice and fire which most will know as game of thrones given the TV show.

 

I'm going to explain something real quick.

 

When it comes to video releases, Japan is kinda still stuck in the VHS days where you could fit three episodes onto a single tape. When DVDs came out, this continued and they tried this in America. It didn't stick, so we started getting DVD sets with all the episodes whereas in Japan you still buy 3 episode blurays. And in Japan, one of those disks run around $60 iirc. $60 for three episodes whereas in America that would buy you an entire season of a show and, depending on the show, have a fair bit of change still in your pocket.

 

Manga, on the other hand, costs something like 650 yen per volume, you can read it anywhere, and recycle it if you don't want it anymore (or burn it if the writing goes to crap). Manga is just a lot more accessible, hence why some can sell thousands or even of copies despite having no anime like Dungeon Meshi. That series was selling 350k copies per volume in it's early days, and it's first four volumes reached combined sales of over 2 million.




#980170 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 19 August 2020 - 10:19 PM

As far as I know Naruto has long since faded from the public mind even in anime fanbases long before the ending. There have been a few people that talk about Boruto but mainly as they can't like it as much as they did Naruto and they eventually stop watching it.

 

I don't watch anime reviewer often. But from what I understand the big names have long since moved on, and even the ones that were the nH reviewers that convince Kishimoto to go with Hinata have largely stop talking about it because it doesn't get views. Only those reaction video  and the biggest speds like animeballsdeep still talk about it.

 

Now a days, if someone makes a video about Naruto its what went wrong...while avoiding criticizing anything about hinata. 

 

You will never see any of them say, "For the first nine years he had one editor Yahagi. After he was promoted the new editors wanted Hinata to become the love interest which kishimoto didn't want to do at first because for nine years the love interest had been Sakura. This led to arguments that led to kishi having to replace his editor a dozen time in about six years. The constant changing editors and the conflicts he had with them slowly lower the quality of the story." Instead you hear them talk about how their was less focused on characters they liked, the changing morals, the art style, the story, and so on

From my own experience, modern audiences either know to steer clear of the Naruto fandom for it's toxic shipping war, or they don't know anything about the franchise and what happened serves as a horror story to them.




#979892 Boruto: The NeverEnding Prologue Chapter 48

Posted by RulesofNature on 05 August 2020 - 04:44 AM

 

Isn't that fandoms in all forms of media in generally?

I wouldn't say so. It's more what I call Standoms that engage in this, where they twist the story they claim to be fans of in order to suit their own wants and desires. They aren't fans of the story as it is or is intended to be. Fans can also acknowledge the negative aspects of their targets. For instance, I'm a fan of the Rising of the Shield Hero novels but I do think that the story started getting weaker following Vol 4.




#979889 Boruto: The NeverEnding Prologue Chapter 48

Posted by RulesofNature on 04 August 2020 - 10:53 PM

The other day, was in Narutoforum's fan club section and entered to Luffy x nami thread and read a lots of the hate towar nami just because she hits luffy and start to think, the problem isn't Sakura it's the fandom, they want a waifu don't want a good story or a ship. Don't know why, but the problem i so much deeper than just a character maybe it's because of the fandom aren't capable of pick up some chick,or are really weirdos people. And thinks like these, just improve the assumption of this kind of crap.

 

It's more, how should I say this, people want anime to cater to them. They want stories that explain themselves through mountains of exposition, meanings clear as day, their ships to sail, all that jazz. I honestly believe that there's a distinct type of fans who actively rewrite the stories they are experiencing so that it says what they want it to say (and when the show doesn't do what they want, claim bad storytelling). Then they'll turn around and praise the writing when they get what they want.




#979888 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 04 August 2020 - 10:10 PM

In terms of DVD/Blu-Ray sales? No idea.
All I do know is that Japan blasted The Last with bad reviews. If Studio Pierrot didn't hire false positive reviewers, I'm pretty sure the rating would be lower than it is now. (Which is 2 1/2-3 stars?)

According to Someanithing, in theaters it sold ¥2,000,000,000 worth of tickets, compared to Road to Ninja's ¥1,359,163,387. This is also slightly above the first two MHA movies. But it's interesting that they pulled it after 5 weeks if I'm reading this right. The MHA movies stayed in theaters 6-9 weeks, much like One Piece or weaker Detective Conan films (both of which outsell Naruto). Even the two movies directly below it, Crayon Shin-chan's, stayed in 8-10+ weeks. I'll leave a link if anyone's curious

 

https://www.someanithing.com/268




#979765 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 23 July 2020 - 07:46 PM

I've been taking another swing at FF8 (remastered) lately, since I never beat it when I rented it. It really makes me think of Naruto.

 

You have this blonde loudmouth orphan, trained to be a professional soldier. Despite this, he constantly shows no respect for authority or even understanding of what he is supposed to do. Instead he talks about being a knight, wants to do more important jobs than what he is assigned and has failed the final exam multiple flipping times because of his immaturity. He's also the rival of a dark haired, brooding orphan.

 

The Naruto-wannabe is the rival in this game. And when you really think about it, Seifer acts as a prime example of why people like Sakura would have issue with him during the early arcs. Take away Naruto's POV, examine the series, and you'll see he's a pain in the ass when he's not being a liability to others.




#979579 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 09 July 2020 - 10:59 PM

 

Never really said it would fix everything but it would be a start least  for fixing characters like Sakura who doesn't end up for Sasuke as an example.

 

For the other stuff you have to probably redit the Kage summit for the hyperventilating, same with naruto saying coolest guy ever to something less cringy. For Kabuto and Orochimaru I can see a few things on how you can fix that. You could have for Kabuto you could ether have him die by death of redemption or just death if you keep him a bad guy, or instead of being in charge of an orphanage you have him as a war prisoner who occasional forced to help with medical ninja stuff only he knows. Orochimaru you could have him attempt to make his move in the war and die for good or possibly leave him alive as a threat for some spin off film, book or mini series if you want to go down that route.

Honestly, I feel a big part of it was the Pein arc felt like everything was wrapping up and the series was going into endgame territory. The main Akatsuki members aside from Obito were defeated, Sasuke got his revenge, Naruto was getting respect. It felt like the final showdown was around the corner.

 

Instead, it ended up being the 2/3's marker of the series. The series still had half of it's length at that time to go, as Kishi came up with new stuff in order to justify continuing the story.




#979524 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 06 July 2020 - 01:39 AM

"X is good because I fantasize-about-having-sex/identify/agree-politically with X character." Edelgard was their attempt at trying to show the villain's perspective like they did with that...Black and White Family one they did before it. They bungled that one because they failed to really explain why there was ever a conflict between them beyond evil dragon. Three House due to she sexy and/or progressive so she is right about everything.

 

Honestly, I've ended up defending Fates a lot more since Three Houses dropped.

 

Here's the thing with Three Houses. Going from the interview, the devs were excited about the exploration mechanic and wanted players to immerse themselves in the world. And that immersion would serve to undermine what Edelgard was saying without the game outright spelling it out. However the main route they focused on (Byleth's/Silver Snow) was based on the idea of the player feeling bad having to fight their wayward former student. Meanwhile, Edelgard tries to sway the player over to her side with how she presents Fodlan, excuses for the events of the first half of the game, and unloading a sob backstory.

 

In short, it's up to the player to figure out she's lying to them in the route which the devs said most will pick first because Edelgard is a girl. The other two routes are meant to suppliment the player with more information about what kind of leader Edelgard actually is. Meanwhile, choosing to join Edelgard hints that you're the bad guy here. During exploration NPCs will express worry over what they are doing, how you shouldn't believe everything Edelgard says, be worried about what she's keeping from you, and notice the contradictions. There's a bunch of little lines to be found that points to Edelgard not being dissimilar to her counterparts on other routes. And the endings? If you look over all the route-exclusive ones, they contradict each other or the epilogue in addition to having some dark implications.

 

Naturally, most of her fans didn't pick up on this and instead take her at face value.

 

As for Fates, it did this a lot better pushing the player to start off on the easy route as the "good guys." There the player commits a few acts that would be considered war crimes irl, consequences of your actions are never shown while they blame things on the bad guys. The protagonist is ready to kill the older brother they used to look up to. Playing as the "bad guys" shows the protagonist trying to be more moral, shows the unseen consequences of joining the other side, tries to keep the body count low and accepts responsibility for their actions. Neither route is meant to be the right choice, and it's instead choosing neither side in the war does the player get to the bottom of everything. Meanwhile, characters are more tied to their loyalties while the supports only serve to flesh out what's already in the main story rather than as a means to influence the player's decision.

 

And I didn't mention either of those, since I felt it would push the conversation into "this can't be real" territory.




#979521 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 05 July 2020 - 11:46 PM

She is a mix of Sumia with even less of a spine with Cordelia's presence & aggressiveness in love in a ChromxF-Robin play-through that you bungled somehow and he ended up with Sumia...And you had to pair up your Robin with Gangrel because you already set everyone one else up.

 

Mind sharing the discussion...Just to be clear not the person name oyu can cut that out.

I'll give the bullet points.

 

* Hinata was a side character with a vocal fanbase.

* Said fanbase wanted her to be the female lead of the story.

* Which the creators did through undermining arcs of the story, retcons, character assassination, and killing off a popular character (Neiji)

* Japanese fanbase thought the series would end with NarutoxSakura, while Hinata was more popular with otaku and Western fans.

* Began summing up The Last

* Promoted it as a Team 7 movie, instead of the NarutoxHinata love story. Mentioned that Sasuke and Kakashi, who were used in the promotion, were just cameos despite being very popular characters.

* Movie says that Naruto never loved Sakura, it was just him being competitive against Sasuke, and that he didn't understand what love actually was.

* Mentioned that Naruto's story was about bonds and how the last point disregarded his character.

* Hinata was upset that Naruto, who she hasn't talked to in two years, had a scarf from his dead mother while she was knitting him one...during a mission to save her sister.

* Movie's claim that Naruto's bond with Hinata was the most important bond in his life, disregarding how his (BS) bond with Sasuke was what the series was all about.

* The bond with the girl he never interacted with and thought was weird when she was introduced is more important than the one the series was about.

* Japanese fans hated the movie, were told they wouldn't be refunded for their preorder tickets and how that was a first for the franchise.

* Kishi's wife was upset because she saw herself in Sakura.

* Assistant told fans they weren't true fans if they didn't like Hinata.

* Last episode of the anime wasn't based on the last chapter of the manga, setting up the next-gen angle. Instead it was Naruto marrying Hinata.

 

I think they were in shock over how bad this was.




#979300 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 22 June 2020 - 01:52 AM

To be honest the only way it could work would be to take all the the fault upon himself. His father recently passed and he suffered a mid life crisis so he want Naruto to end quicker than it would naturally so he could spend more time with his family. He felt guilty about this so he wanted to make sure he would give them the ending they wanted. He was shown American Youtubers reviewing his manga and they all seemed to want Hinata to be with Naruto.

 

Even then it probably not work and even then he would have to give his SSS+ game for it to succeed. 

It wouldn't. Not only because it still makes everyone else connected to Naruto look bad for not stopping him from pulling this, the idea that it was to appeal to Americans.

 

It's ingrained in Japanese culture to look after Japan. To buy Japanese goods and products in order to support Japan's economy, rather than some foreign nation's. Because of this, the Japanese cater to the Japanese. Even if a show, game or manga is popular outside of Japan it's not going to mean much if it isn't popular inside of it. Especially when there's concerns that Americans will simply view the product for free anyway through pirating.

 

Metroid Other M comes to mind. A series beloved in the West that Nintendo attempted to "fix" in order to gain support of Japanese audiences, only to seriously damage the franchise as a result.




#979273 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 21 June 2020 - 05:15 PM

 

By any chance would they come back if KIshimoto admitting to making a mistake to the ending and he will attempt to fix things, or will they just don't trust him anymore? 

To quote myself

 

That would be career suicide. Let me explain.

 

The Japanese have a very different work ethic than Americans do. Rather that working to raise their own status, making themselves look good, they are expected to work in order to make their superiors look good. Doing stuff like whistleblowing sexual harassment isn't going to go the same as it would in the West, they often will say as such to foreign women going over there to work. Often times, bullying will be covered up to protect a school, or the police will claim crimes committed to foreigners were not done by Japanese individuals.

 

If Kishi were to come out and publicly apologize for what happened, it would only be because bosses allowed him to. Anything else is, at best, going to be an off the cuft comment that would be hard to verify.

 

That hypothetical apology would not just make Kishi look bad. It would make at editors at SJ look bad for letting it pass when their job is to help refine a manga into a viable product. If his comments point in the direction of SP and the influence of their staff, then he'll alienate a studio who potentially could bring his work to the home screen. Sponsors would be tagged because they helped support a product now said to be below quality, or even make merchandise for it. You get the idea. Everyone connected to creating and distributing the series would now be associated with a product the creator has now denounced.

 

And let's not forget, they are still trying to profit off the IP with the cancerous tumor they grafted onto it.

 

Kishi could very well end up blacklisted within the industry. It happens. Look at any idol who gets wrapped up in a scandal such as smoking or having a boyfriend. There are popular actors in Japan who suffer such a fate.  There was even an isekai anime in production that was pretty much wiped out when it's creator was revealed to be a massive racist when the announcement brought attention to his twitter. The Japanese only apologize when it's safe to do so (this ties into their government denying what happened in WWII, because it would make the people who built modern Japan look bad).




#978543 The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 29 April 2020 - 12:28 AM

You know watching Linkara's review of Spiderman Sins Past, and it got me thinking how a writer should do something better to knock down Hinata from her pedestal that her fans have built her up around. I mean to try it should be done a lot better than what was done with Gwen Stacy.

 

I mean, I think we all know this would need to happen and show Hinata is not the goddess her fans say she is.

If they actually tackled Hinata as a character, it would be dark. Think about it.

 

1) Her big moments with Naruto all center around being with him when she doesn't think he'll have a chance to win. It all ties into her view that Naruto is a proud loser, something she uses to encourage HERSELF. In essence, she's putting her husband down to make herself feel better rather than being there with him.

 

2) She's possessive enough to get jealous of a scarf knitted by the mother Naruto never knew. Considering how Naruto drifted away from all his friends, something may be up.

 

3) Her parenting of Boruto. That she knows Boruto is upset but doesn't want to trouble her husband with something she views as trivial. Her son, that she gave birth to, is upset and that's considered trivial to her. Not to mention, she's acting like she's protecting Naruto with this, meaning she figures he can't even look after his own kid.

 

Addressing Hinata would be like a psychological horror film.




#978518 Samurai 8 has been axed!

Posted by RulesofNature on 26 April 2020 - 07:09 PM

 

I have a question. Do you think a public announcement for an apology to the fans for the ending will help Masashi to get him back to their good graces? Or is it too little, too late?

That would be career suicide. Let me explain.

 

The Japanese have a very different work ethic than Americans do. Rather that working to raise their own status, making themselves look good, they are expected to work in order to make their superiors look good. Doing stuff like whistleblowing sexual harassment isn't going to go the same as it would in the West, they often will say as such to foreign women going over there to work. Often times, bullying will be covered up to protect a school, or the police will claim crimes committed to foreigners were not done by Japanese individuals.

 

If Kishi were to come out and publically apologize for what happened, it would only be because bosses allowed him to. Anything else is, at best, going to be an off the cuft comment that would be hard to verify.

 

That hypothetical apology would not just make Kishi look bad. It would make at editors at SJ look bad for letting it pass when their job is to help refine a manga into a viable product. If his comments point in the direction of SP and the influence of their staff, then he'll alienate a studio who potentially could bring his work to the home screen. Sponsors would be tagged because they helped support a product now said to be below quality, or even make merchandise for it. You get the idea. Everyone connected to creating and distributing the series would now be associated with a product the creator has now denounced.

 

And let's not forget, they are still trying to profit off the IP with the cancerous tumor they grafted onto it.

 

Kishi could very well end up blacklisted within the industry. It happens. Look at any idol who gets wrapped up in a scandal such as smoking or having a boyfriend. There are popular actors in Japan who suffer such a fate.  There was even an isekai anime in production that was pretty much wiped out when it's creator was revealed to be a massive racist when the announcement brought attention to his twitter. The Japanese only apologize when it's safe to do so (this ties into their government denying what happened in WWII, because it would make the people who built modern Japan look bad).




#978055 The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread

Posted by RulesofNature on 23 March 2020 - 06:52 PM

 correction James genma was the one during the neji Naruto fight hayate was already dead.
Agreed but better question how he got rid of the nanos in him when he was low on charka or how he summoned with next to no charka left and didn't kakashi say if you force a justu it doesn't work and drain you to zero meaning you die

  It got worse in the war

The TLDR of Naruto: It gets worse followed by more it gets worse.