92 replies to this topic

[James S Cassidy]

Actually, that wasn't exactly my point. My point was that whenever Kishi explains the backstory of a character, he usually writes it so to the point that readers would be able to sympathize with the character.

But the problem is exactly that. It's because Sakura doesn't have enough of a compelling background that she is completely side-stepped by the fans.

INSTEAD, it's Hinata's story that is more sympathetic. To be honest, that's where Kishi's fault. If he had written a better background for her, none of this Hinata glorification would've happened in the first place. In fact, I'd dare say he destroyed Sakura's role as the main female character right then & there once he brought in Hinata's story.

Or maybe perhaps people are not looking at the story itself. Here is something I just realized that might give an idea.

In the 2009 interview, Kishimoto said

So... she became such a character, but... well... from here on, maybe I should draw her showing a bit more spirit.
I figured I had placed her in a heroin-like situation
But from the readers I was told harshly that she wasn't heroin-ish at all
Perhaps I should show depict her a bit more like a heroin

As we know, Kishi actually got mad at readers for not sympathizing with Sakura or not seeing for who she really was. This got me thinking, perhaps we are looking at the wrong things to sympathize her with and not what is more important. I'll try to explain this.

When it came to Naruto, or Sasuke, or Gaara or anyone. We had no real idea of where they started. So, we got backstories of their earlier life and how they overcame them or succumb to them. Sakura doesn't have that backstory because her real story is happening as we read it.

The fact that she loved someone who became evil and betrayed her and lied to her, the fact that another did see her for who she really is and loves her. She overcame obstacles and tried to prove her worth. Very similar to the previous backstories, but the difference being is that it is happening as we read it in present tense. So in a way, the struggles she does go through now IS her "backstory" to sympathize with. I think this is why Kishimoto got mad at readers because he is trying to show her as a strong willing character who overcame many setbacks. And he did it all without going through flashbacks. He did it in real time.

At least, that's how I see it. It's genius if you think about it in this way.

As for Hinata, she doesn't get enough screen time as it is, so backstories was a great way to show stuff in a quick motion and get to the main points rather then every little moments of confusion or realization.

I love how this thread became a thread about Sakura.

Welcome to the NaruSaku FanClub, amIrite?

Edited by James S Cassidy, 18 April 2012 - 02:43 PM.

[Turson]

I love how this thread became a thread about Sakura.

[alexander]

One thing is certain, the Third Hokage was a complete idiot for ot cutting the Root early, or even allowing it to begin in the first place. So far we have Pain who wanted to destroy Konoha because of Danzou, we have Sasuke who wants to destroy Konoha because of Danzou ordering his brother to destroy his clan and now we have Kabuto who wants to destroy Konoha because Danzou ordered his mother into a mission where it looks like she really did lose her mind and forget where her loyalties lied.

Ofcourse we had Orichimaru who wanted to destroy the village as well and that only happened because the third was like with Danzou too soft and allowed him to get away. I'm really starting to wonder if the third ever really achieved anything in his time as a Hokage,

I personally think the third was an poor leader. For many times he got pushed around by his councilors and simply went with the flow of things. And for "the sake of the leaf", he allowed many lifes to be destroyed. What is the point to keep your people protected if you are going to turn part of them into mindless husks?

Edited by alexander, 18 April 2012 - 02:44 PM.

[harry4e]

I personally think the third was an poor leader. For many times he got pushed around by his councilors and simply went with the flow of things. And for "the sake of the leaf", he allowed many lifes to be destroyed. What is the point to keep your people protected if you are going to turn part of them into mindless husks?

It's hard to beleive Danzou and Orichimaru managed to do so much without the third knowing this, there is also the way he handled Naruto's upbringing, only three people knew what happened that night Saratobi and his two helpers, he could have ordered them to stay quite and told the rest that the Fourth Hokage sealed the Kyuubi in himself and died, and that would have been the truth, he'd just be leaving out information. We've seen that there were Ninja families that would have adopted him, but again by outing him as the Jinchuriki he made NAruto's life a miserable. He meant well but he was too soft and beleived too much in his people, even Minato knew the village would not treat his son as a hero, but felt he had no other choice, Saratobi on the other hand did, and messed up again.

Tsunade in her three years has shown better leadership skills than the third Hokage.

Chapter 583 at MangaStream till Friday Evening.

Edited by harry4e, 18 April 2012 - 03:22 PM.

[MangaReader]

I guess I'll follow the crowd and say I normally don't like flashbacks, but these last two were actually quite important to Kabuto's character, though by now we should know that flashbacks normally results in the defeat of the guy who has them

[Dragunov]

Interesting chapter. However, its detracting from the fights.

[Fyuria'sLeo]

Interesting chapter. However, its detracting from the fights.

Fights arnt everything bro, I mean come on you gotta love how Kabuto came to be and how his 'Mother' was a ninja cool stuff.

The chapter was good, I really liked how we find out that the mother of the orphans is or was part of the Anbu root, and finding out Kabuto met Orochimaru that young was amazing. And then when Kabuto killed his mother it really got to me cause she didn't even remember who he was.

[Nate River]

What I liked was the tightrope Kishimoto has been walking for so long.

Of all the evil deeds that Konoha has been revealed to be involved nearly, 100% of them appear to have been instigated or committed by like 4 people? Orochimaru, the two council members, and Danzou. Even Kabuto got screwed by them.

Naruto, so far, is the only exception to this. And the evil deeds committed against him have always been committed by an generic "the village" despite a number of rather...uncomfortable questions lingering about the older generation outside that list.

Everyone who gets screwed by Konoha is getting screwed by someone on that list. Even mass murderer Itachi was pushed by them and done (and the Uchiha were wanting to revolt under their rule) so in a way that appear to let the Third off the hook as much as humanly possible.

So that way the villains have identifiable reasons to go after the hero that goes beyond generic save the world or evil for the sake of evil stuff, but at the same time don't taint ANYONE from the main cast (on the good side) currently coming out of there and potentially avoid the issue of doing anything to legitimize Sasuke's genocidal aspirations against the village as a whole.

I know why he does it, but I still find it amusing.

When Danzou showed up all I could say was, "Yeah, it figures it'd be him."

[dokueki(venom)]

I just finished reading the chapter and liked the chapter. Now I am really glad Danzo is dead! That bastard. Now all we need is those two hags to die that are part of the council. I pretty sure who ever Tobi really is hates Danzo as well. So I guess with all this Danzo is the true villan of this story even in his death.

[ciardha]

When Danzou showed up all I could say was, "Yeah, it figures it'd be him."

Same here. And now you see why, even more clearly, why Tsunade has always loathed Hiruzen's two team mates and Danzo, and openly fought their opinions and attempts at taking control. (another reason why she was so bitter and reluctant to become Hokage as well, she knew Danzo and the elders were up to no good and were too powerful). It's personal for her as well, they took her grandfather's legacy and threw it into the sewer. It's no wonder, as well, she will fight against them tooth and nail when it comes to Naruto. She's got to feel some poetic justice that "her side" freed Sai and now he's absolutely loyal to those that want the better way. And here is how Tsunade is a far superior Hokage than Hiruzen.

To me Danzo was every bit invested in the evil side as Tobi Madara, Orochimaru and even Sasuke. He was a poison.

Edited by ciardha, 19 April 2012 - 03:53 AM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Very interesting chapter. I was glad to see Danzo and Orochimaru again. The thing about Kabuto's "mother" not remembering who he was... I think that Root eventually got her to fully wipe her memories and emotions.

[FoolishYoungling]

Last bit of respect in Danzo.. lost.

[Rainy Daze]

.___. I don't care about Kabuto, get on with the story.

Edited by Rainy Daze, 18 April 2012 - 08:09 PM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

.___. I don't care about Kabuto, get on with the story.

And if someone else said that they didn't care about Naruto's alliance with the other jinchuuriki and to "get on with the story", then what? A lot of you don't seem to understand that this is, indeed, a part of the story, just like every other flashback or conversation in the manga.

[TerrorKing]

Danzo you bastard! Just because you're mad about Hiruzen being appointed hokage instead of you, doesn't give you the right to be a manipulative a**hole. Man I feel for Kabuto. It's no wonder he's so screwed up. He has basically lived his whole life without ever knowing who he truly is. When he was adopted by the orphanage, he at least had a name and a family but then all that was taken from him and essentially he has been used ever since.

[harry4e]

.___. I don't care about Kabuto, get on with the story.

You might not care but Kabuto's past is a vital piece of Narutoverse, he's been an inigma from the start, never really 100% sure what side he is on, why does he help injured parties yet side with Orichimaru a man known for experimenting on innicent human beings? his history has also been a mystery, with conflicting stories. Now we know why he is who he is, and why he's so messed in the head.

Danzo you bastard! Just because you're mad about Hiruzen being appointed hokage instead of you, doesn't give you the right to be a manipulative a**hole. Man I feel for Kabuto. It's no wonder he's so screwed up. He has basically lived his whole life without ever knowing who he truly is. When he was adopted by the orphanage, he at least had a name and a family but then all that was taken from him and essentially he has been used ever since.

I'll agree about Danzou being a piece of kittene, but don't agree on your reasoning, Danzou even though jealous about Hiruzen becoming Hokage, did what he did because he actually loved his village and was prepared to do whatever it took to keep the village safe, he beleived in eliminating the threat before the threat occored, this in turn led to the village having more enemies in the long run, but from his perspective, he was doing everything neccesery to protect his village, which is what's so messed up. His intentions were not wrong but his methods were plain evil.

Edited by harry4e, 18 April 2012 - 09:03 PM.

[FoolishYoungling]

Yes, sense Kabuto is the best villain ever, it is only right for them to give him his flashbacks.

[TerrorKing]

I'll agree about Danzou being a piece of kittene, but don't agree on your reasoning, Danzou even though jealous about Hiruzen becoming Hokage, did what he did because he actually loved his village and was prepared to do whatever it took to keep the village safe, he beleived in eliminating the threat before the threat occored, this in turn led to the village having more enemies in the long run, but from his perspective, he was doing everything neccesery to protect his village, which is what's so messed up. His intentions were not wrong but his methods were plain evil.

Well, I was half joking in my statement. I don't really believe that the only reason that Danzo was such a massive prick was because he was jealous of Hiruzen. That being said, it's obvious that in terms of beliefs he and Hiruzen were fundamentally different. Hiruzen believed in resolution through peaceful methods, while Danzo believed in resolution through any means necessary. Like you said, his intention weren't really evil, but his methods were. However, despite this difference in beliefs he still held the hokage title in high regard, so much so that he made several attempts to seize it. Like when he intentionally delayed Naruto's arrival during Pain's invasion, because he knew that the more devastated the village was, the stronger he would stand when trying to convince the fire daimyo that the land of fire needed a stricter leader.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that Danzo believes he can run Konoha better than any of the previous Kage's and that he is upset that he never got the chance to prove it.

Edited by TerrorKing, 18 April 2012 - 10:24 PM.

[Dragunov]

Fights arnt everything bro, I mean come on you gotta love how Kabuto came to be and how his 'Mother' was a ninja cool stuff.

The chapter was good, I really liked how we find out that the mother of the orphans is or was part of the Anbu root, and finding out Kabuto met Orochimaru that young was amazing. And then when Kabuto killed his mother it really got to me cause she didn't even remember who he was.

Youre right, but you cant argue that this is going a bit slow.

[Strangelove]

We've been at this for.... 6 weeks? 7 weeks now?

Maybe because it has been 6 or 7 weeks that it has been going slow?