99 replies to this topic

[rocci]

@nar123

sadly, kishi protect sasuke from death ending.

[TouKen4Life3g]

@nar123
sadly, kishi protect sasuke from death ending.

Didn't he say he didn't know what to do with him and got fed up? Thus, we got this ending. Overbearing forgiving unrealistic development.

[Nar123]

Didn't he say he didn't know what to do with him and got fed up? Thus, we got this ending. Overbearing forgiving unrealistic development.

 

Sounds like Kishi alright

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
Sounds like Kishi alright

He did say this though. Lol.

[Windking]

Well at least some people (I think) agree that he should have died.

[goldenarms]

Didn't he say he didn't know what to do with him and got fed up?

 

I'm pretty sure he was talking about Madara, since he was uber-tiered before becoming the tentails jinchuriki. Hence the sudden betrayal at the hands of Black Zetsu and the entrance of Kaguya.

 

Masashi has repeatedly stated that the ending itself was the one constant that never changed, though, so yeah, it was planned for Naruto to beat all the stupid-dangerous out of Sasuke in the end, then go on to become Hokage.

 

Well at least some people (I think) agree that he should have died.

 

I wouldn't dispute that, though I was thinking in terms of calling back to the time Sasuke put himself between Haku and Naruto to save the latter from (a false) death. Just killing Sasuke would have done nothing -- he needed to be saved from his own self-destruction or else, Naruto would have forever felt like he had failed. It's a hard road, but Naruto had always had that bit of insight into Sasuke from the time they clashed at the Valley of the End long before we the readers learned about what that imagery meant, and he continued to stand by that, even when no one else could/would.

[TouKen4Life3g]

No, he said that for Sasuke as well. It's in that long interview.

[goldenarms]

Out of the fact that if she was handled by a good writer Sakura still could turn out to be a good character with the intentions/ goals Kishi gave her in his original storyline

 

I dunno. The fact of the matter is that Sakura never caught on with the Japanese readers. In fact, they hated her, as Masashi tells it in an interview after Naruto ended. Even little Japanese girls, who should be wildly crazy for Sakura, telling him to his face that they hated her. And, as I understand, this was long before Hinata ever came onto the scene (so you can't say the otaku were "in love with her cow-sized kittens "), so there was a legitimate problem going on, as a main character was garnering contempt instead of adoration.

 

Perhaps she should have been rendered neutral in her affections in the beginning, but alas, hindsight is 20/20.

[rocci]

@golden
Sakura is a unique with a potential to become a great heroine.
But the problem is kishi give up on her.
Sakura is a character that need the development to solve her conflict.

If sakura start neutral, there will be no one side love triangle.

[Nar123]

 

I dunno. The fact of the matter is that Sakura never caught on with the Japanese readers. In fact, they hated her, as Masashi tells it in an interview after Naruto ended. Even little Japanese girls, who should be wildly crazy for Sakura, telling him to his face that they hated her. And, as I understand, this was long before Hinata ever came onto the scene (so you can't say the otaku were "in love with her cow-sized kittens "), so there was a legitimate problem going on, as a main character was garnering contempt instead of adoration.

 

Perhaps she should have been rendered neutral in her affections in the beginning, but alas, hindsight is 20/20.

 

The problem is Kishi's bad writing.

 

Sakura was coming along fine in early part 2, she showed evolution in both physical and emotional areas. The hate she had at the time came just from haters that just couldn't forget her fangirl personality from early on.

 

But, Kishi being such a genius, brought back an angle that always hurt Sakura's character, the romance one, and did so in a horrible manner.

He made Sakura look useless in the kage summit arc and this just made the hate against her character grow exponentially , there is also the fact that he never explored her backstory that much out of the bullying thing from her childhood and her relationship with Ino, relationship that could've been better focused/ worked in her character development, for example Sakura could be a representation of a person that shouldn't put shallow romance above true friendship.

 

Anyway, even if he didn't handled her charater right, it's no excuse to let popularity rule his story

Edited by Nar123, 08 April 2015 - 11:37 PM.

[Dario]

 

I dunno. The fact of the matter is that Sakura never caught on with the Japanese readers. In fact, they hated her, as Masashi tells it in an interview after Naruto ended. Even little Japanese girls, who should be wildly crazy for Sakura, telling him to his face that they hated her. And, as I understand, this was long before Hinata ever came onto the scene (so you can't say the otaku were "in love with her cow-sized kittens "), so there was a legitimate problem going on, as a main character was garnering contempt instead of adoration.

 

Perhaps she should have been rendered neutral in her affections in the beginning, but alas, hindsight is 20/20.

She shouldn't have been purposefully written to be unlikable, which was Kishimoto's original goal with her. He thought it'd make things "interesting", well apparently readers disagreed. The thing l'll never understand though is why he seemed surprised at her poor recption. He took a gamble with her and lost.

[rocci]

She shouldn't have been purposefully written to be unlikable, which was Kishimoto's original goal with her. He thought it'd make things "interesting", well apparently readers disagreed. The thing l'll never understand though is why he seemed surprised at her poor recption. He took a gamble with her and lost.

Unlikeable character is not the problem when the creator know what to do with the character. Kishi clearly clueless when he said he will make sakura beautiful in order to up her popularity.
And kishi give up.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Kishi could have turn table but he does it too slow and does it less impactful.

[Change]

 
I dunno. The fact of the matter is that Sakura never caught on with the Japanese readers. In fact, they hated her, as Masashi tells it in an interview after Naruto ended. Even little Japanese girls, who should be wildly crazy for Sakura, telling him to his face that they hated her. And, as I understand, this was long before Hinata ever came onto the scene (so you can't say the otaku were "in love with her cow-sized kittens "), so there was a legitimate problem going on, as a main character was garnering contempt instead of adoration.
 
Perhaps she should have been rendered neutral in her affections in the beginning, but alas, hindsight is 20/20.

What? You do realize Sakura is very popular in Japan right?(as a female character that is)

[goldenarms]

What? You do realize Sakura is very popular in Japan right?(as a female character that is)

 

Those are the words from the man himself. You go tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

 

The problem is Kishi's bad writing.

 

Sakura was coming along fine in early part 2, she showed evolution in both physical and emotional areas. The hate she had at the time came just from haters that just couldn't forget her fangirl personality from early on.

 

But, Kishi being such a genius, brought back an angle that always hurt Sakura's character, the romance one, and did so in a horrible manner.

He made Sakura look useless in the kage summit arc and this just made the hate against her character grow exponentially , there is also the fact that he never explored her backstory that much out of the bullying thing from her childhood and her relationship with Ino, relationship that could've been better focused/ worked in her character development, for example Sakura could be a representation of a person that shouldn't put shallow romance above true friendship.

 

Anyway, even if he didn't handled her charater right, it's no excuse to let popularity rule his story

 

With readers not being interested in Sakura, though, you're basically wasting pages put out stories about things no one cares about, and the manga industry is very competitive. There are plenty of really good stories out there that haven't made it past 100 chapters for one reason or another, but usually it's because the readership isn't interested in them. So, really, popularity isn't an excuse -- but in Japan, it's life or death to the manga creators. Can't deliver? We got another six guys waiting to replace you. It's brutal, but as a person that does write and (tries to) create comics, I can't say they're wrong. Unfair, sure, but not wrong, because at the end of the day, WSJ and all other manga publishers are a business, and the primary deal is to make money by offering services that people want.

[Change]

Those are the words from the man himself. You go tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I honestly don't ever believe what comes out of his mouth(or from somebody who is talking about what he "he told him/her"), because he's either contradicting himself or saying start up horse kitten. If you pay attention to all of the interviews after the ending, you'll start to notice how they contradict each other.

[rocci]

@goldenarms

I understand the harsh reality of manga industry. 

kishi already reach immortality status. he doesn't need to worry about quantity. he should just deliver quality story.

[Hiraishin]

She shouldn't have been purposefully written to be unlikable, which was Kishimoto's original goal with her. He thought it'd make things "interesting", well apparently readers disagreed. The thing l'll never understand though is why he seemed surprised at her poor recption. He took a gamble with her and lost.

That's what always gets me. You made an unlikeable character and -- surprise surprise! People didn't like her! What did he expect would happen? Honestly, he's so dumb. Why would you make the heroine unlikeable?

[TouKen4Life3g]

That's what always gets me. You made an unlikeable character and -- surprise surprise! People didn't like her! What did he expect would happen? Honestly, he's so dumb. Why would you make the heroine unlikeable?

If he was ready to make her work, then it's understandable. Instead, he really go all the way with her and just make her weak as always. Plus, he took too long as well.

[Nar123]

 

Those are the words from the man himself. You go tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

 

With readers not being interested in Sakura, though, you're basically wasting pages put out stories about things no one cares about, and the manga industry is very competitive. There are plenty of really good stories out there that haven't made it past 100 chapters for one reason or another, but usually it's because the readership isn't interested in them. So, really, popularity isn't an excuse -- but in Japan, it's life or death to the manga creators. Can't deliver? We got another six guys waiting to replace you. It's brutal, but as a person that does write and (tries to) create comics, I can't say they're wrong. Unfair, sure, but not wrong, because at the end of the day, WSJ and all other manga publishers are a business, and the primary deal is to make money by offering services that people want.

 

The readers weren't interested in first place because he never tried to actually give her an interesting backstory or continue her development from early part 2.

 

Though Sakura in the polls almost always came out as the lead female character and only in the end she lost the place to Hinata, who got tenth overall. This kind of popularity is too small to affect the story in some manner/ shape or form

 

Ultimately I believe Kishi was influenced by someone from his inner circle to exchange Sakura for Hinata (we can actually confirm this by his Jump Festa 2010 intereview) 

 

Really, in the end all comes back to the fact Kishi is a bad writer and a naive, easily manipulated person