54175 replies to this topic

[James S Cassidy]

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

Pretty much XD

[DrK]

I have to say that the comparison doesn't really work for me, because it's not so much a compromise as it is a total loss. There was no upside. Naruto could have just been a bachelor like Jiraiya was. Hinata would have slept with him anyway and even had his kids if he was hell bent on that for whatever reason.. Don't see why he would be, but yeah. Maybe the Hyuga would have complained, but he could just threaten to talk about their obscene slave seals and they would shut up.

[Illnevergiveup3]

*ahem*
https://comicnewbies...e-god-of-death/
 

 

There are many different Goku as well. Dragonball Super actually muddles this too and plays with canon so much that we are left asking "What is canon?" We have Anime Goku, Manga Goku, Movie Goku, and even Super Anime Goku, and Super Manga Goku. (And yes, they are all different. So different that even the DBZ fandom can't decide which one is canon.)

All of them have a range of power and abilities that one could argue and blah blah blah. Let's take some examples:
Anime Goku is shown that he is only as fast as lightspeed using his Instant Transmission.

Manga Goku is shown that he can't lift 1000 tons even with his new forms.
Movie Goku's powers are so inconsistent that they basically do whatever they want, but if Ressurection of F is anything to go by, Goku is a glass canon that can easily be taken down by a blindside to the chest and required outside help to win. (Frieza won that fight, but because of a cop-out of time manipulation that wasn't even from Goku....Goku wins.) It also kind of proves that Goku and Vegeta cannot survive a planet explosion as Vegeta was confirmed killed when Freeza blew up the planet.

Now we have the new Broly movie anbd we don't know what this will add or subtract or...what. What if Goku gets taken out by getting hit with a rock to the face?

However, we can pick and choose till the cows comes home, but I think we all want to pick the strongest Superman vs the Strongest Goku. That is what everyone agrees upon. If we want to go into this kitten debate by picking and choosing which Superman vs which Goku thenyou will never reach an answer.

"How about we pick Cosmic Armor Superman vs Saijan Saga Goku?" See, but that is stupid and we know this is stupid.

Same thing can be with Flash vs Sonic.
Which Flash vs which Sonic and there are MANY different Flashs and Sonics just as well. Although, everyone loves using the Archie comic version even though it is really inconsistent and has Sonic at one point using Bugs Bunny/Looney Toons physics.

 

I guessing you mean this
https://vignette.wik...=20171118234312

But, and here is the thing, the Sonic Archie comics kind of did whatever they wanted and was a jumbled mess of the games, the cartoons, and more. There is a WHOLE thread that someone has brilliantly done when talking about the DB battles with Sonic team in this. And the Archie comics have been rebooted too and some stuff ceased to exist canocially. So....yeah.

http://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2016/07/

Just read this. It is REALLY long, but it shows everything as a break down.

Basically, the Flash and Sonic are no different. In fact, they both have a speed force with Sonic's being the "Emerald Force" or whatever. Point is, alot of things are taken out of context and to really go in and look at some of the things going on shows that these Archie comics are not really that great of feats when you dive into details.

Take example your comment about Sonic crossing the multiverse usng the Cosmic interstate really doesn't tell us anything. There was gaurenteed different sonics that were slower and yet still were able to be on that interstate and corss the universe in hours or minutes. So was it Sonic's real speed or was it really the cosmic interstate purposely shortening distances to help sonic along. As even Sonic himself said "It was a short cut." And Sonic took the shortest cut of all.

We also have this:






 

 

So, yeah.....

I mean, let's really think about this. This is why I love not looking at feats or whatever because kittens gets muddled...instead I look at core of characters. You can have all the powers in the universe, but if you are stupid or easily gullible to the point that people can take advantage of you...well, how powerful are you really?

Take example, even if Goku might be stronger than Superman...Superman is definitly smarter. Imagine Superman using some of Goku's weaknesses against him to his advantahe such as his ability to be tenacious. So tenacious that he trips and causes his own downfall. How do you take that into consideration?

You can have Sonic vs Flash....the sonic could be faster or stronger, but the Flash is smarter and can use things to his advantage. He can perceive events less than an attosecond. Can Sonic do that? As much OP as Sonic's golden form is, there is a limit and a time duration that Flash could use this advantage. Do we take that into consideration?

This is why core of their character is so important because some of these characters have been outsmarted. Sonic supposedly has all these OP powers and yet, some how Dr. Robotnik is a threat to him? How? What is stopping Sonic from snapping his fingers and just ending it all? Noone ever takes this into consideration.

Superman could end all crime if he wanted, but as shown he doesn't want to just kill people to stop crime which many villains take advantage of and yet Superman still come sout on top and even lives to 5 billion years in the future.
https://screenrant.c...-action-comics/

What do we take from all of this? How many fights did Superman win in those 5 billion uyears and what beings did he face? We have comics of Superman surviving the beginning and the end of universes and yet he is fine. No doubt someone or something tried to kill him and yet he survived long enough to live to outlive gods in his universe. Again, what does this all prove?

It proves feats are pointless in the end and that the author is king. The author can do or say whatever he wants and create things that in reality borderline ridiculousness.

"One minute Sonic is so powerful he can anything with reality....but oh here comes a robot monkey with a wrench that knocked him out with a blow to the head oh and it is canon. This actually happened." An author does this and what...are we to say that Sonic is weak to wrenches or do you think this is an outlier that is complete BS? Do you pick and choose what is canon and what isn't at this point?

It's like that "Goku destroying the universe in 3 punches" BS. One, it only happened when he was fighting with Beerus and he really didn't destroy anything. Every other fight, including stronger forms, shows that this is not what is happening. He doesn;t collide punches with anyone else and people say "OMG, he is destroying the universe." I mean, if that were really true...wouldn't the gods say "Hey, Goku, you're too much of a threat to the universe and are breaking balances and kitten...so we need you to stop fighting?"

"He shook the infinite void." How do you shake a void? How do you shake nothingness? And how can he shake an infinite void, but then can't take a puny laser to the chest?

You see how really stupid this all is? Like, after a while there are some things you really can't take into considering because they are so ridiculousness that you can't even quantify it in their own universe. You can quantify Superman lifting the planet, you can't quantify Goku supposedly shaking "nothingness." If it sounds stupid...it probably is.

If you have to use feats...use quantifiable feats and not something that can't be really be measured.
"Goku shook a void" and Superman lifted a book of Infinite pages. These are both ridiculous feats that have really no quanitfiable measure...although I'd say the book of infinite pages is a bit more quantifiable than "shaking a void," but it is still ridiculous.

What about Sonic and Flash? Okay...well....how can Sonic go slower than light and yet travel multiple universes? That's unquantifiable. How can flash perceive events in less than an attosecond when the shortest time measured is 12 attoseconds? How do you compare them? I don't see Sonic perceiving events shorter than an attosecond, but I do see Flash traversing time and space in seconds as well. So what does this mean? So Flash is not durable enough to take a punch for Superman, but can withstand practically the energy required to break time and space? And I am talking about power they can do on their own. Sonic does some of these things, but it requires outside forces and stuff that he doesn't do himself. Sonic has never ran faster than time without some outside assitance like the chaos emerald's and more. Knuckles can use the chaos emerald's too and shown just as much. Does that mean Knuckles can beat Sonic if he absorbes the power too?

*sigh* Do you see what I mean guys? Most people use generalizations, but keep going deeper and you can find many different variables that can easy tip the scale in a character's favor.

We also have the argument of Universe logic vs Universe logic. "Well, if Superman was in DBZ he would not be as powerful or such and such character is only as powerful in their own universe." Okay, but this applies to everyone. I could say that Goku is nowhere near that strong if he was in the DC universe, but that is not a fair assessment not is it? Besides, Superman has been shown to go into other universes and still be JUST as powerful. Superman was in the Looney Tunes universe with Bugs Bunny and his powers didn't flux. He was in Marvel and his powers didn't flux. He was in several universe not of his own and yet his powers did not flux. So unless stated otherwise like Flash in Marvel doesn't have powers because the speed does not exist in Marvel or how the Infinity Stones are inert in DC universe....then you can't say that a character is not as strong in another universe as they are in their own.

I can easily say that Goku would be much weaker in DC because Ki energy does not behave the same way in the DC universe as it does in DBZ/Super. You know why? Because several character do use Ki attacks and they are nowhere near planet busting. Iron Fist is a Ki user in Marvel, but you don't see him blowing up planets and shaking voids.

Point is, Core of character is probably the most accurate of them all to determine character outcomes.
Superman is not meant to lose and yet Goku loses most of his fights or requires massive amounts of outside help to win. So a 1v1 with Superman would have Goku losing.

The Flash is meant to be the fastest man alive to the point that he create multiverses just by running too fast. Sonic doesn't exhibit such a force...at least not without some major help from the chaos emeralds or more. The Flash wins because the dude can outrun time. What's stopping him from going back in time and killing sonic as a baby?

I hope you all really see what I mean here. You have to look at the purpose of the character and not feats because feats merely show what the author wanted them to do and besides some authors only do things for the sake of drama and NOT because that is what would happen. Look at Toriyama and the Buu Saga where he basically said "kitten all" to logic. How many times did the rules keep changing in this arc? More often than I can count.

But if people really want to use feats, then let's use feats:



Oh look, Goku and Vegeta can't lift 1000 tons. Superman has been shown to lift a planet. Superman is stronger....Superman wins. Boom. See how easy that is?

This is where people would make an argument like "That is BS because Goku has pushed a mountain. which weighs 178,500,000,000 tons and the manga is not written by Toriyama." Yeah well, sorry, but a 178.5 billion tons doesn't hold a candle to 6.6 sextillion tons and well, I think we both can agree that Toriyama oversees the manga version so...yeah Toriyama either is not good at math or he doesn't care to. Unless we want to go back into the argument of the Boruto manga vs the Boruto movie of "What Kishimoto wrote vs what Kishimoto supposedly supervises."

Do you see how easy it is to debunk stuff because a writer does something to throw off the scales all because they don't care? And I am not even looking at character errors or printing errors such as the time Superman blew up a shadow moon with the same size as our moon, but Batman accidentally gives the scale as smaller which was an editor error.

If you want to use quantifiable feats to see who would win in a fight in a Vs Battle, then use feats that are backed-up ON PANEL and not just conjecture like "Well, if this ability increases his power by 50x then he can lift 50x more." Okay, but if Goku can lift 40 tons and you times it by 50, it doesn't come out to "billions, trillions, sextillions of tons." Multipliers are NOT a quantifiable way to show strength because I can do that too. "Superman can easily lift planets just by staying 15 minutes in the sun....imagine what 10,000 years in the sun lets him lift. It is unimaginable strength." People say Superman Prime is featless, but want to assume Goku's feats because "power scaling." I can power scale with Superman too. "Superman in base form can lift multiverses, survive black holes, tear and patch holes in reality, and move just as fast as the Flash can....imagine how much he would be if he was at Full potential," but people don't accept this because they want cold hard facts and panels of Superman doing things and not just conjecture. I don't understand how they want to assume so much for one character based off little to no evidence, but when another characters SHOWS what they can do...all of a sudden it does not count because...stupid reasons they give.

I mean, Death Battle's Goku vs Superman is the most accurate out of any argument I have ever seen because they want to use quantifiable feats, but at the same time realize that these characters have done ridiculous amount of stuff to the point that you can't quanitify anymore. So you go by the purpose of the character. Sure, I guess ine a few comics or manga the character could get more powerful, but that goes both ways. In Goku vs Superman 1, it was before Super...and then after Goku vs Superman 2...they released Strange Visitor. Both Goku and Superman got stronger and do even more ridiculous things. So DB, at least this one, has it right...A man who can overcome any limit vs a man who has no limits in the first place. Core of their character. They are are strong as the author wants them to be, but between Goku and Superman...Goku actually does struggle power wise, while Superman's struggle is more about moral standing. Superman will win one way or another....Goku can lose and has shown to lose many battle even now.

So...yeah I am done with arguments of Vs Battle arguments now. Core of character.
Saitama and Superman can beat Goku because they are not meant to lose or struggle and Goku is.
Flash can probably beat Sonic because Flash doesn't need outside help to manipulae time and space...(Plus people love the speed steal argument.)
and so on and so forth. Please, give me any Vs Battle and I can settle it by looking at the core of character.

End of discussion.

P.S. I want to add this because I hate when people throw this "If he has infinite strength, then why does he look like he struggles to lift something?" Okay, well, here is the thing. Just because you have infinite strength does NOT mean the universe has infinite durability. Something people keep forgetting that object have a threshold of how much weight they can endure before breaking. What if I see you struggle with a delicate vase? "Oh look how weak you are you can't even lift a vase." See how stupid that sounds? So a character with infinite strenght is not sturggling to lift  or move something. They struggling to move something without breaking it. It's called having control over your strength and honestly, that requires a lot of training and concentration. Flash can run as fast as he wants, but he doesn't want to break stuff like reality and time so he limits how fast he runs so as to not break kitten. So please, take something like this into consideration.
 

 

I didn't even notice you replied to me until today lol. I will respond back to this in a few days, I have been away from the computer.

[ultranx]

 

I didn't even notice you replied to me until today lol. I will respond back to this in a few days, I have been away from the computer.

I'll leave the replying to you then, I'm not getting into another versus debate discussion when I've said they don't make sense to me and are dumb and he doesn't seem to take the hint that I don't care about goku vs superman and keeps replying to my posts sigh. I already know some ways to debunk him, like for example, he's still treating the battle of gods and resurrection f movies as holding weight in super when they were revamped and replaced with the super anime versions and no longer hold ground, and as I said several times that he ignores like I'm making it up, super saiyan god goku and beerus were buffed in the super anime and manga to the point their punches colliding created shockwaves that almost tore apart the universe. what part of the anime has changed the movies entirely (and put more depth into stuff like resurrection f like how they even reached blue in the first place) is so hard to understand? good grief...

 

seriously if you're gonna argue this stuff about multiple versions of goku and use that manga feat of not being able to lift 1000 tons WHILE BASE SUPER SAIYAN, at least use the versions of the movie arcs canon to the super manga and anime and the new feats instead of ignoring them entirely, especially when they throw the 1000 tons thing out of the water. if your punch can rip apart the universe, you can lift 1000 tons no problem.

 

 

you know what, since you always act like everyone makes it up whenever its brought up, here you go sigh. and super saiyan blue, super saiyan blue evolution, super saiyan blue kaioken x20, and ultra instinct omen and mastered are all stronger forms than super saiyan god, all within this same canon, do the math. oh superman can move a planet, oh look, the shockwaves are shattering planets! oh look a planet disintergrated! oh look a star on the verge of exploding!

 

anyhow have fun debating with him i'llnevergiveup3

 

last edit to comment: also for the record, I don't know why you're using the super manga as the more canon source when the anime is the one used by all the media the majority of the time, especially when it comes to the upcoming movie and the video games and etc. its actually regarded as an alternative but not the canon version of super because it lagged behind the anime for the longest time and some of the arcs didn't turn out as well.

also infinite strength is a form of super strength, which is a super power. the whole "universe won't hold up under infinite strength" thing doesn't remotely make sense because, well you want to argue about core features of characters, what is a super power core to superman's character? not infinite strength, super strength. you can't have infinite strength and not have super strength, infinite strength is a form of super strength, its a super power, so again I ask you, how can superman have infinite strength when he struggles against others with his super strength? if his super strength is limitless, why does he struggle? at that point he should be like one punch man and take everyone out in a single punch. the whole struggling with a vase argument doesn't work here because we're talking about someone with super strength, anyone with super strength can lift a vase effortlessly, if superman has infinite strength, he should be able to lift anything or knock someone out in one hit, all with no effort. does he? the no limits thing I can agree on, but the infinite strength thing I seriously doubt. if that was the case, why have we not seen a super man fight where the universe is being destroyed by his punches? we see that with galactus and goku's fights, but not superman's.

Edited by ultranx, 28 July 2018 - 01:35 AM.

[LuckyChi7]

Been quite a long time since i've done one of these, but Issue 21 the latest of Renew Your Vows really stood out to me..

 

 

So  let us look back at this "WONDERFUL" moment between Hinata and Himawari from Chapter 700:

 

 

 

 

So  okay a not so bad moment between Mother and Daughter in naruto with Hinata and Himawari visiting Neji's grave. The problem with this scene is the purpose behind his death, and does it have weight? Kind of, but it's not exactly warranted at at the same time not a lot of behind it. Like okay had Neji gone out in like a badass way with legit purpose to the story than okay fine, but again for a pairing is just insulting.    

 

 

 

 

 

Now let us take a look at the latest issue of Renew Your Vows with a similar scene that had legit weight and emotions behind it: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not gonna spoil what happens in the issue, but you can feel so much from these two pages between MJ and Annie seeing how they both feel,  and are their for one another just like how they are with Peter. Once again I'm really digging what Renew Your Vows has been offering, and how much  love and care they put into with each member of the Parker family including the mother daughter relationship between Annie and MJ.  Such an amazing tale!

[James S Cassidy]

I'll leave the replying to you then, I'm not getting into another versus debate discussion when I've said they don't make sense to me and are dumb and he doesn't seem to take the hint that I don't care about goku vs superman and keeps replying to my posts sigh.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you one of the world's biggest hypocrites. Watch as he says ones thing and does the next. Tells the world "I am not going to debate this guy because he doesn't know what he is talking about" only to waste another entire post debating over something I JUST debunked. Look how he says he doesn't want to debate versus battles by...debating versus battles. See the amazing logic of telling me I can;t take a hint all the while entirely missing the point I just wrote. Congratulations....you win....on who can't let it go first. Despite me saying that feats are pointless because fictional characters change and continue to change constantly. See as he ignores what I said about feats vs core of character and completely ignoring everything I have just said. I bet you he didn't even see that I made a Superman Q and A showcasing most of the extraordinary feats that Superman is capable of that makes Goku look like a child accidentally spilling their fiction juice on the writing carpet. Cryptic metaphors are lost in the ever imploding realm of the oblivious notions.

I will say it ONE....LAST....TIME.
CORE OF CHARACTER.
A man who can overcome any limits vs a man who has no limits in the first place.

Goku accidentally almost destroying the universe with supposedly three punches?
Pre-crisis Superman almost destroying the fabric of reality by flying too fast
https://qph.fs.quora...5e198af79d59c-c

Modern Age destroying Universes fighting himself and shattering dimensions with his fist.....PURPOSELY.
https://static.comic...0750-kal_11.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.../notstupid6.jpg

Superman patching holes in reality PURPOSELY and even into more than 5th dimensions
https://static.comic...57203-17248.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qa9CHtW.jpg
https://imgur.com/gallery/9tOlBLz

Superman speed blitzing The Reverse Flash
https://qph.fs.quora...5a3d052f2bc82ac

Superman traveling the entire length of the universe and back in 60 days WITHOUT teleporting or some kind of instant transmission.
https://qph.fs.quora...9e94f02b2a69100

Superman operating at less than Nanoseconds or faster
https://qph.fs.quora...206b41e262c4dce

Superman's heat vision blasting things thousands of times larger than Earth and reaching temperatures hotter than the sun
https://qph.fs.quora...857a20986b8227d

Superman fighting off and damaging Soulfire Darkseid...who had the power that even the Source could not defeat.
https://qph.fs.quora...86a659a9081aa3a

Superman surviving a black hole that was sucking up the universe. Yes the ENTIRE universe
https://qph.fs.quora...6032e1a065c5c4b

And many many many many more.
I can keep showing so many pictures of Superma fighting and defeating UNIVERSE LEVEL ENTITIES ranging from the Source to Darkseid to more.

I cannot stress this enough. SUPERMAN IS AS STRONG AS HE NEEDS TO BE. Goku can never and will never be able to beat Superman. EVER. Do you get this now? Superman is MEANT to be unlimited. He is NOT meant to lose. The only way Superman can die is if he lets himself die. Goku needs dragonballs to come back to life and or a cheat hax from one of the gods.

So at the end of day...it is YOU who cannot take a hint. It is YOU who so badly wants Goku to win that you ignore everything else for victory. Goku cannot defeat Superman. He can't. Superman is not meant to lose. Same as Goku cannot defeat Saitama either because Saitama is the anti-thesis to heroes like Goku. That is the whole point. Like how squirrel girl turns characters into the straight man.

BUT....

This is does not mean that Goku or Superman are boring or stupid or pointless. Goku tells the story of determination. No challenge is too big if you have enough will to over come it. Superman tells the story of how good of people we should be. How we should make choices based on the right course and not out of foolish pride or quest for power. Superman doesn't need to struggle for power because he is already as powerful as he wants to be. These two characters are legendary and we both can agree that they are the most iconic heroes of our age. Superman is going on 80 years and still going while Goku has only been going on for 30 at best.

So
THE CORE OF CHARACTER

A MAN WHO CAN OVERCOME ANY LIMIT VERSUS A MAN WHO HAS NO LIMITS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Goku is infinity
Superman is Infinite plus 1

Does it makes sense? No, but then it doesn't have to. Nothing Goku does makes sense either, but we put up with it because we love them so much. Just as how kitten dictates that Goku, even if he were a universe buster, will still face a challenge because that is the point of his character. His entire character is meant to struggle no matter how strong he is. Meanwhile Superman is the opposite. No matter what is thrown at him, Superman will win, but the question is is what he is doing is the right things?

End of discussion.
*mic drop*

 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 28 July 2018 - 05:46 AM.

[DrK]

I don't really like that grave scene even outside the context of Naruto being botched, mostly because of the implication that Neji would like these flowers based on their being named after Himawari, when Neji never knew Himawari. You could say it is reasonable to assume he would like her even though she looks like a genetic abomination, but it's still kind of a stupid thing to say. It would be one thing if Neji died for Hinata while she was pregnant, to save her child, instead of him dying just so that she could be with Naruto. The line would work then. But he died for something horrible that ruined the story, so it doesn't.

Edited by DrK, 28 July 2018 - 05:37 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

I don't really like that grave scene even outside the context of Naruto being botched, mostly because of the implication that Neji would like these flowers based on their being named after Himawari, when Neji never knew Himawari. You could say it is reasonable to assume he would like her even though she looks like a genetic abomination, but it's still kind of a stupid thing to say. It would be one thing if Neji died for Hinata while she was pregnant, to save her child, instead of him dying just so that she could be with Naruto. The line would work then. But he died for something horrible that ruined the story, so it doesn't.

Its really just there to show off the daughter; there are no other generation kids of the Leaf other then the ones shown in the epilogue. Also Kishimoto excuse for why they got together was because of Neji, that Bolt was named in honor of him, and Bolt is the bolt that holds nH together.

 

But as far as SP was concern -who were the ones that wrote how & why nH happened- Neji was killed as punishment for touching Hinata's breast; so, instead they made the excuses of the last.

[Kasimir38]

According to some people, not only did Naruto and Hinata had a romance going on in Shippuuden, -Temari and Shikamaru had no development and Sakura saw Naruto as a little brother (you see the sand siblings acting like that around each other all the time)!

Is there a thread called "Everyday Life with the fans from the other side" Because I've got plenty of stories to tell lmao, would be really funny.

[Illnevergiveup3]

I'll leave the replying to you then, I'm not getting into another versus debate discussion when I've said they don't make sense to me and are dumb and he doesn't seem to take the hint that I don't care about goku vs superman and keeps replying to my posts sigh. I already know some ways to debunk him, like for example, he's still treating the battle of gods and resurrection f movies as holding weight in super when they were revamped and replaced with the super anime versions and no longer hold ground, and as I said several times that he ignores like I'm making it up, super saiyan god goku and beerus were buffed in the super anime and manga to the point their punches colliding created shockwaves that almost tore apart the universe. what part of the anime has changed the movies entirely (and put more depth into stuff like resurrection f like how they even reached blue in the first place) is so hard to understand? good grief...

 

seriously if you're gonna argue this stuff about multiple versions of goku and use that manga feat of not being able to lift 1000 tons WHILE BASE SUPER SAIYAN, at least use the versions of the movie arcs canon to the super manga and anime and the new feats instead of ignoring them entirely, especially when they throw the 1000 tons thing out of the water. if your punch can rip apart the universe, you can lift 1000 tons no problem.

 

 

you know what, since you always act like everyone makes it up whenever its brought up, here you go sigh. and super saiyan blue, super saiyan blue evolution, super saiyan blue kaioken x20, and ultra instinct omen and mastered are all stronger forms than super saiyan god, all within this same canon, do the math. oh superman can move a planet, oh look, the shockwaves are shattering planets! oh look a planet disintergrated! oh look a star on the verge of exploding!

 

anyhow have fun debating with him i'llnevergiveup3

 

last edit to comment: also for the record, I don't know why you're using the super manga as the more canon source when the anime is the one used by all the media the majority of the time, especially when it comes to the upcoming movie and the video games and etc. its actually regarded as an alternative but not the canon version of super because it lagged behind the anime for the longest time and some of the arcs didn't turn out as well.

also infinite strength is a form of super strength, which is a super power. the whole "universe won't hold up under infinite strength" thing doesn't remotely make sense because, well you want to argue about core features of characters, what is a super power core to superman's character? not infinite strength, super strength. you can't have infinite strength and not have super strength, infinite strength is a form of super strength, its a super power, so again I ask you, how can superman have infinite strength when he struggles against others with his super strength? if his super strength is limitless, why does he struggle? at that point he should be like one punch man and take everyone out in a single punch. the whole struggling with a vase argument doesn't work here because we're talking about someone with super strength, anyone with super strength can lift a vase effortlessly, if superman has infinite strength, he should be able to lift anything or knock someone out in one hit, all with no effort. does he? the no limits thing I can agree on, but the infinite strength thing I seriously doubt. if that was the case, why have we not seen a super man fight where the universe is being destroyed by his punches? we see that with galactus and goku's fights, but not superman's.

 

I am only debating with James about Sonic vs. The Flash.

 

I agree with James wholeheartedly that Superman would literally demolish Goku with ease. James posted some of his feats already. Superman has plenty more under his belt that would make those look like child's play.

 

Superman was also destroying the universe with his punches as well as ripping apart reality when he was fighting Zod.

[jak123]

According to some people, not only did Naruto and Hinata had a romance going on in Shippuuden, -Temari and Shikamaru had no development and Sakura saw Naruto as a little brother (you see the sand siblings acting like that around each other all the time)!

Is there a thread called "Everyday Life with the fans from the other side" Because I've got plenty of stories to tell lmao, would be really funny.

Wew. Most people from the moment they might figured that Temari and Shikamaru would end up together. Little brother my ass.

[The Doctor forever]

 

I am only debating with James about Sonic vs. The Flash.

 

I agree with James wholeheartedly that Superman would literally demolish Goku with ease. James posted some of his feats already. Superman has plenty more under his belt that would make those look like child's play.

 

Superman was also destroying the universe with his punches as well as ripping apart reality when he was fighting Zod.

Oh that's true I agree Superman is powerful, but I don't agree that nothing can beat him hell my brother has a tone of Superman comics and he has been beaten in a fight hell found a vid on 10 people who have won but I know not all are counted as you know many versions of him but, from what my brother who is a big big Superman fan.

 

However, as he said no hero is without weakness or even faults, Superman in his younger years had made mistakes, (If fans count the younger days before he became Superman.)

 

Hell in Injustice 2 Superman kills Joker, which for the Joker is a win as many would say that the Joker did beat Superman in a fight, that's true, but he got Superman to kill him. After all, this is something that the Joker wants from heroes for them to kill him to show that they can be just as much as a monster as he is.

 

I mean, make no mistake I still love Superman, but I know a few in DC can beat Superman if they had the time mind you.

My brother said that all you need to do is move Superman away from our Sun which is the source of his power, not one thing he has no clue on is when we talked about this was how long the power would take to fade away.

 

He did say a blue sun can take away his power. However, he is not sure if that's completely changed now, as that is pissing him off that they keep changing it up all the time. I say this as he has a wife and kids that he looks after right now.

 

[ultranx]

 

I am only debating with James about Sonic vs. The Flash.

 

I agree with James wholeheartedly that Superman would literally demolish Goku with ease. James posted some of his feats already. Superman has plenty more under his belt that would make those look like child's play.

 

Superman was also destroying the universe with his punches as well as ripping apart reality when he was fighting Zod.

I don't deny goku would lose either, he seems to think otherwise though. still seems to think I'm a dbz fanboy wanking goku, when the fact is he's just ignoring feats and treating me like a fanboy sigh. also which zod fight was that, now you've got me curious.

Edited by ultranx, 28 July 2018 - 09:16 PM.

[ultranx]

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you one of the world's biggest hypocrites. Watch as he says ones thing and does the next. Tells the world "I am not going to debate this guy because he doesn't know what he is talking about" only to waste another entire post debating over something I JUST debunked. Look how he says he doesn't want to debate versus battles by...debating versus battles. See the amazing logic of telling me I can;t take a hint all the while entirely missing the point I just wrote. Congratulations....you win....on who can't let it go first. Despite me saying that feats are pointless because fictional characters change and continue to change constantly. See as he ignores what I said about feats vs core of character and completely ignoring everything I have just said. I bet you he didn't even see that I made a Superman Q and A showcasing most of the extraordinary feats that Superman is capable of that makes Goku look like a child accidentally spilling their fiction juice on the writing carpet. Cryptic metaphors are lost in the ever imploding realm of the oblivious notions.

I will say it ONE....LAST....TIME.
CORE OF CHARACTER.
A man who can overcome any limits vs a man who has no limits in the first place.

Goku accidentally almost destroying the universe with supposedly three punches?
Pre-crisis Superman almost destroying the fabric of reality by flying too fast
https://qph.fs.quora...5e198af79d59c-c

Modern Age destroying Universes fighting himself and shattering dimensions with his fist.....PURPOSELY.
https://static.comic...0750-kal_11.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.../notstupid6.jpg

Superman patching holes in reality PURPOSELY and even into more than 5th dimensions
https://static.comic...57203-17248.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qa9CHtW.jpg
https://imgur.com/gallery/9tOlBLz

Superman speed blitzing The Reverse Flash
https://qph.fs.quora...5a3d052f2bc82ac

Superman traveling the entire length of the universe and back in 60 days WITHOUT teleporting or some kind of instant transmission.
https://qph.fs.quora...9e94f02b2a69100

Superman operating at less than Nanoseconds or faster
https://qph.fs.quora...206b41e262c4dce

Superman's heat vision blasting things thousands of times larger than Earth and reaching temperatures hotter than the sun
https://qph.fs.quora...857a20986b8227d

Superman fighting off and damaging Soulfire Darkseid...who had the power that even the Source could not defeat.
https://qph.fs.quora...86a659a9081aa3a

Superman surviving a black hole that was sucking up the universe. Yes the ENTIRE universe
https://qph.fs.quora...6032e1a065c5c4b

And many many many many more.
I can keep showing so many pictures of Superma fighting and defeating UNIVERSE LEVEL ENTITIES ranging from the Source to Darkseid to more.

I cannot stress this enough. SUPERMAN IS AS STRONG AS HE NEEDS TO BE. Goku can never and will never be able to beat Superman. EVER. Do you get this now? Superman is MEANT to be unlimited. He is NOT meant to lose. The only way Superman can die is if he lets himself die. Goku needs dragonballs to come back to life and or a cheat hax from one of the gods.

So at the end of day...it is YOU who cannot take a hint. It is YOU who so badly wants Goku to win that you ignore everything else for victory. Goku cannot defeat Superman. He can't. Superman is not meant to lose. Same as Goku cannot defeat Saitama either because Saitama is the anti-thesis to heroes like Goku. That is the whole point. Like how squirrel girl turns characters into the straight man.

BUT....

This is does not mean that Goku or Superman are boring or stupid or pointless. Goku tells the story of determination. No challenge is too big if you have enough will to over come it. Superman tells the story of how good of people we should be. How we should make choices based on the right course and not out of foolish pride or quest for power. Superman doesn't need to struggle for power because he is already as powerful as he wants to be. These two characters are legendary and we both can agree that they are the most iconic heroes of our age. Superman is going on 80 years and still going while Goku has only been going on for 30 at best.

So
THE CORE OF CHARACTER

A MAN WHO CAN OVERCOME ANY LIMIT VERSUS A MAN WHO HAS NO LIMITS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Goku is infinity
Superman is Infinite plus 1

Does it makes sense? No, but then it doesn't have to. Nothing Goku does makes sense either, but we put up with it because we love them so much. Just as how kitten dictates that Goku, even if he were a universe buster, will still face a challenge because that is the point of his character. His entire character is meant to struggle no matter how strong he is. Meanwhile Superman is the opposite. No matter what is thrown at him, Superman will win, but the question is is what he is doing is the right things?

End of discussion.
*mic drop*

 

like I said 1000 times, I don't care, I dropped the discussion about goku vs superman and sonic vs flash ages ago agreeing the subject was dumb, was my last comment on the matter, then you go bringing it up again? yet I'm the one that won't let it go when I did and you brought it up? seriously? and debunking? what was there to debunk in the first place? I was never arguing whether goku could beat superman in the first place, you were, I was just saying I find the whole idea of the fight dumb, the whole point of a character with no limits vs a character that overcomes limits, because most versus debates are like that and boring and uninteresting. most versus fights end up having an character fighting a op character that secretly is op and has a bunch of haxes. that's why I find versus debates dumb. look I get it, you like superman and feel the need to argue about superman being so much better than anything in dragon ball because you hate dragon ball and hate me for liking dragon ball super, I get it already, will you give it a rest? I know goku would lose to superman, maybe not every version of superman, because not every superman's core character is having no limits, the one originally that couldn't fly wasn't like that for example. but goku loses to superman, I get it, I don't care. they'd never fight anyway, they'd probably actually be friends. I am seriously not seeing the big deal and why you keep bringing it up whenever I remotely bring up goku or superman or both in the same sentence. was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and actually read your replies and not put them on ignore, guess I'll stick to ignore then since you want to continue treating me like some dbz fanboy sigh. and also why does it matter if one version of sonic can beat flash or one version of goku can beat superman, why do you take offense to it so much? seriously....

 

I posted about sonic vs flash july 10th, that same day we dropped the subject, you brought it up 3 weeks later starting the discussion again, it is now july 28th, almost august, and started bringing up goku vs superman, and I'm the one that won't let things go? seriously? who's the hypocrite?

 

 

do you seriously think I want to waste my time talking about something I dropped almost a month ago?

 

 

seriously I have a rough day at my workplace and I come home to this crap?  I have a jerk new worker at work who is lazy and makes me do all the work he's supposed to do so I get off work late, have sonic youtubers calling me delusional for liking sonic forces, and now I have you calling me a hypocrite and acting like I care about goku vs superman when I do not, all in the same day making me in a rotten mood today? seriously I like superman, but if you keep acting like this I think I will grow to hate superman, I can't stand being harassed about stuff like this in fanbases, I didn't want to try sonic boom rise of lyric because I sucked at ratchet and clank and the ones wanting the game harassed me for it, then it comes out and is bad and I hated boom ever since, for its fanbase. is that what you want to happen? someone who likes superman like you to grow to hate him because of his fans harassing him?

 

seriously why is it you and me can't just get along? I try over and over again to get along with you, we used to back before the naruto ending, yet ever since we talked about goku vs superman you always bring it up to me and act like I'm a dbz fanboy and don't get along with me. I am seriously trying here and have had a rotten day, but I am still trying to be nice here.

 

maybe there's another series we both like and we can agree on something? and we can talk about that instead of hating each other?

I get into arguments with my best friends all the time because we have different things we like but we have stuff we both like too, like we both like sonic, megaman, pokemon, and dragon ball. I don't like shooters but my friends do  and they understand that I have different preferences. its the same here, you like versus debates, I do not, we both like superman, you moreso than me and we disagree on certain things, but we both used to like naruto and I'm sure we both like something else? can't we just agree to disagree and get along over something else instead of arguing over this stuff?

 

I always thought you were one of the coolest users on this site with the coolest posts whenever naruto was involved, and when you and bryon_konoha_ninja were harassed on tumblr by pro enders  I made a tumblr account just to give them a piece of my mind. heck I even watched some of your narusaku podcasts.  yet ever since we talked about goku vs superman the first time its like you hate my guts. 

 

look if I was a jerk when we first ever talked about it years ago when the death battles happened I apologize alright? I have mild autism and wasn't as mature back then as I am now. now I honestly don't care about versus battles anymore, not like I did back then. I'm not like you, part of autism is you mature slower than other people, you can be 23 and still be a teenager mentally, or in my brother's case with more severe autism, a child mentally. it takes longer than normal people for autistic people to mature.

I'm 27 and more mature than I was back then, especially ever since I ended up in the hospital last year. yet still don't know everything I need to know to live on my own yet. I am seriously trying to get along with you here.

 

literally all I'm asking is not to reply to me about anything about goku vs superman since I'm not interested. if its anything else I'm happy to talk to you if we can get along. I don't have a problem with you talking about goku vs superman here, just don't reply to me about it like I care about that topic, leave me out of the discussion, that's all I ask.

 

also if you weren't talking to me and only I'llnevergiveup3 I apologize, I just figured you were replying to me again since you do it every time goku vs superman is brought up and I was the one who brought up the topic of sonic vs flash in the first place. I didn't bring it up for a versus debate, I only brought up sonic vs flash as an example of why versus debates don't make sense and are dumb to me. if you like versus debates, that's fine I respect that, just leave me out of it, especially about goku vs superman.

Edited by ultranx, 29 July 2018 - 01:19 AM.

[jak123]

I always thought you were one of the coolest users on this site with the coolest posts whenever naruto was involved, and when you and bryon_konoha_ninja were harassed on tumblr by pro enders  I made a tumblr account just to give them a piece of my mind. heck I even watched some of your narusaku podcasts.

That's why tumblr is cancer.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

That's why tumblr is cancer.

 

Trust me, I had the same feeling too when it came to mentioning my feelings regarding some stuff in Bleach, and someone had to get on my ass over it. I don't post too often on Tumblr anymore, but I do sometimes visit.

[ultranx]

That's why tumblr is cancer.

true, at least when fanbases are involved, but at least its not as bad as facebook, twitter, and youtube with all the censorship as of late. its gotten so bad that facebook's stocks are dropping because of them doing the mess. good thing I stay off social media lol

I still don't get why social media has become such a huge thing, I mean don't they realize they're exposing their personal information online? I was always afraid of doing that mess.

Edited by ultranx, 29 July 2018 - 01:42 AM.

[RulesofNature]

If Hinata and Naruto's genders were reversed, would her fans still consider the relationship healthy? Or would they call Hinata a creepy "nice guy" who feels he's entitled to this relationship. In this way, Hinata kinda reminds me of a really disgusting hentai lead, like if Naruto would have picked Sakura he would have gone to... extreme measures to force himself on her. Her feelings wouldn't matter, just that she belongs to him. 

 

Granted, even their canon counterparts are full of unfortunate implications.

Edited by RulesofNature, 29 July 2018 - 01:49 AM.

[DrK]

If Hinata and Naruto's genders were reversed, would her fans still consider the relationship healthy? 

Yeah, that's just creepy and disgusting to imagine. Sakura and Sasuke would at least be funny.

 

Sakura: Since you're good now, and I loved you this whole time due to the fact that I'm not a terrible man, you have to let me impregnate you now.

 

Sasuke: I have a better idea. How about instead of that, I just kill you and destroy the body with Katon jutsu?

 

Sakura: Uh... Okay, maybe we can compromise.

 

Sasuke: You seem to think this is a negotiation. It's not. We're going with my idea.