229 replies to this topic

[Broken Figurine]

So I was on the anti-SasuSaku tag on tumblr because I was curious, and I ran across some rather... disturbing things? Sasuke fans, even those against SasuSaku (or SasuKarin) basically blame Sakura for being stupid enough to be in a relationship with him. I would agree to this to some extent, but the overall tone is victim blaming and while they can say vile things about Sakura being weak, overzealous with affection, and even going so far as to say Sarada is incompetant as a daughter, just will shrug and be like yeah Sasuke's a jerk not like anything's new.

 

Sasuke has always been the character that has been bad for others. He's always the one hurting people around him, and for some inexplicable reason people care about him. It doesn't matter if it was Naruto, or Karin, or Sakura. Sasuke is bad news. 

 

Then there's people who are pro-Sarada and anti-Sakura because they feel that she's being an abusive mom for hiding things. While I can agree somewhat that I have no idea why Sakura would hide these things and live this way, I feel like we need to at least wait for some explanation why before casting her into the abusive/horrible mother trope. Sasuke however, he has a terrible track record and I can believe he's out there being unfaithful, neglectful, or whathave you. He's the one who has been absent this whole time. He's the one who left Sakura in the situation that she's in--for whatever reason she's in it. 

 

I'm not saying that one needs to support Sakura and her horrible decision to be with Sasuke and live a lie. It's just baffling that there are people who are against the pairing, but supporting Sasuke. Whatever issues they take with Sakura, I can't take their arguments seriously if they don't offer the same scrutiny to him. Whatever she's done, she hasn't been nearly as much an antagonist. Even if she's a terrible mother, how can you defend the absent father any more?

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Because he's a good looking kitten. And people love good looking kitten.

[Dario]

l understand the logic behind blaming Sakura, because even if Sasuke is a horrible person, it's Sakura who enabled him to treat her like complete trash. lt's not Sasuke who followed her around obsessively, it's her who kept coming back for more and never confronted him about his bull. Sasuke always made it very clear what he thought of her, he tried to kill her and even showed it to her in a genjustu, yet she still ran back for more. l can't feel sorry for her because she could have made it stop anytime. Like someone else said, she made her bed now she has to sleep in it. Alone.

[Tiller]

Even if Kishimoto made it so NS didn't happen in the end, SS happening ruined Sakura's character. It's just that simple. I mean look where she is, with an abusive man who even when he isn't actively trying to kill her is still ignoring her, and treating her like crap. Do you think the Sakura would have allowed Naruto to be gone for 12 years? I think she would have chased after him. Sasuke though? She obeys him the way a dog obeys it's master, and she was told to stay and wait, and she has been doing just that.

 

Put Sakura with any other man and she wouldn't be a doormat. With Sasuke though? She becomes submissive and lets him get away with everything just because she thinks he is hot.

 

The moment Kishimoto drew her quivering lip and having her BEG Sasuke to let her follow him, just moments after he almost allowed her to die in lava and mentally made her believe she had just be killed by his hand, and insulted her to her face... after all of that just a few hours alters it back to her being 12 and begging "Sasuke-Kun" to love her.

 

Had Sakura ended up alone or with any other guy she would have been better treated. But for this story? She has at best just be turned into a baby maker. At worst she took care of Karin and Sasuke's kid, which is admirable, but doesn't change the fact that all she is doing is waiting around for a man who has done nothing but brought her pain and suffering.

 

As far as her parenting goes I don't blame her for not telling Salad anything. What is she going to say? "Hey your father was a terroist... then he tried to become a fascist dictator in order to enslave mankind.... oh and he tried killing me and most of the parents of your classmates multiples times.... and her mentally tortured me.... and he stopped the current Hokage from saving me from falling in lava once, thankfully Master Kakashi saved me.... oh and he abandoned us....does nothing to strengthen this household.... but we should love and respect him, and wear his family crest with pride, because he is the man of this house.... if he ever comes back"

 

Sasuke is like a cancer. Everything he touches dies. Sakura's character arc is proof of that, as is most of the rest of this story.

 

I'd never support Sasuke though. Had I been writing this story he would have died at the end. At the very least he should have lost his eyes, and his chakra having to rely on the people he wanted to rule over for his daily life. Instead he does whatever he wants and everyone loves him for whatever god damn reason.

Edited by Tiller, 28 April 2015 - 06:30 AM.

[Aizen-Sama]

Sakura was only ruined towards the end.  She's still a good character throughout Shippuden and I will always support her for that.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Sakura was only ruined towards the end.  She's still a good character throughout Shippuden and I will always support her for that.

Me too. The previous 693 one is my favorite character of the Manga.

[ThroughWithLove]

The only reason I'm against the idea of "Sasuke should have died in the end" is because Naruto's POAL. It's gotta be fulfilled to keep the themes of the story intact. Naruto always keeps his word. Pity the POAL didn't mean jacksquat in the end though as there's really no other reason for Naruto to save him. The dialogue in chapter 698 was laughable and involved shoehorning in things never before mentioned (i.e. Sasuke "hurting for" Naruto). To top it all off, the POAL doesn't get mentioned again and Sakura never thanks Naruto for keeping it.

[Aizen-Sama]

The only reason I'm against the idea of "Sasuke should have died in the end" is because Naruto's POAL. It's gotta be fulfilled to keep the themes of the story intact. Naruto always keeps his word. Pity the POAL didn't mean jacksquat in the end though as there's really no other reason for Naruto to save him. The dialogue in chapter 698 was laughable and involved shoehorning in things never before mentioned (i.e. Sasuke "hurting for" Naruto). To top it all off, the POAL doesn't get mentioned again and Sakura never thanks Naruto for keeping it.

 

I always thought Naruto's POAL was kinda dumb, despite how sweet it was to Sakura.  You can promise people things of yourself, but promise people you'll make other people do something else?  I always thought it was doomed to end tragic, or the closest thing Naruto would get would be dragging Sasuke's body back home, but of course in this fictional shonen story he's actually able to keep the promise.  And you're right. we never even got to see Sakura thank Naruto for it. 

[Tiller]

The only reason I'm against the idea of "Sasuke should have died in the end" is because Naruto's POAL. It's gotta be fulfilled to keep the themes of the story intact. Naruto always keeps his word. Pity the POAL didn't mean jacksquat in the end though as there's really no other reason for Naruto to save him. The dialogue in chapter 698 was laughable and involved shoehorning in things never before mentioned (i.e. Sasuke "hurting for" Naruto). To top it all off, the POAL doesn't get mentioned again and Sakura never thanks Naruto for keeping it.

I think the story should have in the end been about growing up and accepting the realities of leadership. Sasuke should have continued to be corrupted by the darkness of revenge, his very soul falling. In the end he should have become such a tortured and broken soul, that the only choice for Naruto would have been to put him down like old yeller in order to put the man to peace finally.

 

Then again I would have had Sakura's releasing Naruto from the POAL being a true act, and Naruto eventually realizing that the only way he could bring Sasuke back to peace was to stop him from himself.

 

But my Naruto wouldn't have been asking stupid things like "Love... isn't that how people feel about ramen?" Nor would he have pushed the 4th out of office.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Death would've been too merciful for Sasuke after all he's done (all his "It's everyone else's fault that I'm like this! Everyone oppresses the Uchiha! We're always the victims!"). As I brought up in another thread myself and mentioned here, he should've lost his eyes and chakra, the things that he relied on so much and thought made him superior to everyone, much like Madara. To lose them would a fate worse than death and what lead them to becoming even worse people by taking the eyes of their siblings just so they wouldn't lose their sight due to their own power. He would be knocked down to the same level as, or even lower than the people he always looked down on, and would have to actually learn to work hard in order to live even a civilian life while also having to learn to accept help without thinking of it as "weakness".

I can agree that, due to the stupid story, Sakura IS partially to blame for being in this situation, but to act like Sasuke holds no culpability in it is just sheer stupidity.

[Tiller]

Death would've been too merciful for Sasuke after all he's done (all his "It's everyone else's fault that I'm like this! Everyone oppresses the Uchiha! We're always the victims!").

 

I agree. Which is why I always say it would have been like putting down Old Yeller. A mercy killing. One that Sasuke may not have deserved but I think would have been done well for the story, if done correctly.

 

Lost of his eyes and chakra would have been better then what we got, but such a tale is far beyond Kishimoto's talents obviously.

Edited by Tiller, 28 April 2015 - 07:04 AM.

[KnS]

The only reason I'm against the idea of "Sasuke should have died in the end" is because Naruto's POAL. It's gotta be fulfilled to keep the themes of the story intact. Naruto always keeps his word. Pity the POAL didn't mean jacksquat in the end though as there's really no other reason for Naruto to save him. The dialogue in chapter 698 was laughable and involved shoehorning in things never before mentioned (i.e. Sasuke "hurting for" Naruto). To top it all off, the POAL doesn't get mentioned again and Sakura never thanks Naruto for keeping it.

 

Yes.  If Kishimoto and his integrity demolition team could erase Sakura's growth, Naruto's understanding of love and sacrifice, Sasuke's hatefulness and insanity, the importance of Minato and Kushina's courtship and similarity to NS, explain Naruto's interest in Sakura as nothing more than a petty and childish competition with Sasuke, etc., etc., etc. -- they could surely have found a way around the PoaL if they had wanted to do so.

 

Obviously it wouldn't even have had to be a clever way around it.  God knows there is nothing clever about what was chosen for the ending.  

I think the story should have in the end been about growing up and accepting the realities of leadership. Sasuke should have continued to be corrupted by the darkness of revenge, his very soul falling. In the end he should have become such a tortured and broken soul, that the only choice for Naruto would have been to put him down like old yeller in order to put the man to peace finally.

 

This is what I wrote in one of my one-shot fics. I considered it a lot more realistic and appropriate considering the "facts" of the manga at the time I wrote my story.

 

Unfortunately, it turned out that manga "facts" weren't facts at all.  

 

Sigh.

[Codus N]

 

Yes.  If Kishimoto and his integrity demolition team could erase Sakura's growth, Naruto's understanding of love and sacrifice, Sasuke's hatefulness and insanity, the importance of Minato and Kushina's courtship and similarity to NS, explain Naruto's interest in Sakura as nothing more than a petty and childish competition with Sasuke, etc., etc., etc. -- they could surely have found a way around the PoaL if they had wanted to do so.

 

Obviously it wouldn't even have had to be a clever way around it.  God knows there is nothing clever about what was chosen for the ending.  

 

This is what I wrote in one of my one-shot fics. I considered it a lot more realistic and appropriate considering the "facts" of the manga at the time I wrote my story.

 

Unfortunately, it turned out that manga "facts" weren't facts at all.  

 

Sigh.

 

Hope you don't mind me asking, but which, exactly is that one-shot? because I don't seem to recall it. Was it Yurei?

 

P.S.: do you have any other fandoms you're willing to write for? like FT, for example? 'Cause it's a shame to see your writing skills collecting dust. Your last update was over a year ago, I'm beginning to think you've given up fan writing (or writing in general) entirely. I just wanted to know how you're doing..... 

[Aizen-Sama]

I think the story should have in the end been about growing up and accepting the realities of leadership. Sasuke should have continued to be corrupted by the darkness of revenge, his very soul falling. In the end he should have become such a tortured and broken soul, that the only choice for Naruto would have been to put him down like old yeller in order to put the man to peace finally.

 

Kishimoto himself said in an interview once that he wanted to write a story about a "friend who became an enemy" when he started Naruto and that Sasuke was always planned as the final villain.  Don't know how the hell a happy ending still came out of that.

[KnS]

Hope you don't mind me asking, but which, exactly is that one-shot? because I don't seem to recall it. Was it Yurei?

 

I don't mind at all.  You're right -- it is Yurei.

P.S.: do you have any other fandoms you're willing to write for? like FT, for example? 'Cause it's a shame to see your writing skills collecting dust. Your last update was over a year ago, I'm beginning to think you've given up fan writing (or writing in general) entirely. I just wanted to know how you're doing..... 

 

Yeah, I know I haven't updated in a long time.  Lots of reasons why, but mainly health problems dogging me.  However, I still hope to update both Wilderness and my Gaara fic.  I want to finish both stories with the characters and their futures as I imagined them.

 

The only other fandom I've written for is Harry Potter.  

 

Thanks for asking, Codus. 

[Nar123]

Honestly I can kind of understand this POV because Sakura brought all of this over herself, however they also can't excuse the fact that Sasuke is a horrible father and nothing will change the fact he spent 12 entire years without looking in his daughter face no matter the BS excuse Kishimoto creates.

 

I already knew that SS was a doomed couple, Kishi developed them negatively all the way through part 2...he can't just erase that.

 

 

Sakura was only ruined towards the end.  She's still a good character throughout Shippuden and I will always support her for that.

 

I'd say towards the middle, Kage Summit arc

 

 

Death would've been too merciful for Sasuke after all he's done (all his "It's everyone else's fault that I'm like this! Everyone oppresses the Uchiha! We're always the victims!"). As I brought up in another thread myself and mentioned here, he should've lost his eyes and chakra, the things that he relied on so much and thought made him superior to everyone, much like Madara. To lose them would a fate worse than death and what lead them to becoming even worse people by taking the eyes of their siblings just so they wouldn't lose their sight due to their own power. He would be knocked down to the same level as, or even lower than the people he always looked down on, and would have to actually learn to work hard in order to live even a civilian life while also having to learn to accept help without thinking of it as "weakness".

I can agree that, due to the stupid story, Sakura IS partially to blame for being in this situation, but to act like Sasuke holds no culpability in it is just sheer stupidity.

 

Yep,I thought of something like that too...

Him becoming blind ( and maybe losing his chakra coils)  could show a new beginning for the uchiha and Sasuke could've even learn to cope with that while still helping Naruto in changing the world

 

 

The only reason I'm against the idea of "Sasuke should have died in the end" is because Naruto's POAL. It's gotta be fulfilled to keep the themes of the story intact. Naruto always keeps his word. Pity the POAL didn't mean jacksquat in the end though as there's really no other reason for Naruto to save him. The dialogue in chapter 698 was laughable and involved shoehorning in things never before mentioned (i.e. Sasuke "hurting for" Naruto). To top it all off, the POAL doesn't get mentioned again and Sakura never thanks Naruto for keeping it.

 

Yeah, but not destroying themes of the story did not stop Kishimoto before, not only he destroyed the whole" fight against destiny" theme, but also the whole "hard work" theme and "the next generation surpassing previous generation" theme

He completely butchered the POAL and failed to redeem Sasuke in a good manner and what is horrible is that this last Sasuke, the one who was rebelling against the system, had actual potential since it was the first time Sasuke made some valid point, the shinobi system was corrupted and it needed to change, it just happens that Sasuke's methods were stupid and evil.

It's a huge shame Kishimoto made him forget everything about his goal just because Naruto punched him hard enough

Edited by Nar123, 28 April 2015 - 11:45 AM.

[rocci]

Sakura maybe a failed character.
But to blame her over the bad thing in this manga is laughable.

[Ryriena]

I blame Kishimoto for trolling his fans by selling out her charcter growth to become the perfect house wife for a jerk. He was emotinal and mentally abusive jerk for becoming nothing more than pairing folder for the boys of the squd. He also destroyed Naruto's character growth through out the manga for somthing so stupid as killing Neji, which I am still pissed off about since Neji was also put down as just a plot device. It as bad as what they did to Barbra Gordon in The Killing Joke. Taking her character and basicly turning her into a plot device destroys her own character and makes her folder for the guys to go crazy.

Edited by Ryriena, 28 April 2015 - 01:04 PM.

[Aizen-Sama]

I blame Kishimoto for trolling his fans by selling out her charcter growth to become the perfect house wife for a jerk. He was emotinal and mentally abusive jerk for becoming nothing more than pairing folder for the boys of the squd. He also destroyed Naruto's character growth through out the manga for somthing so stupid as killing Neji, which I am still pissed off about since Neji was also put down as just a plot device. It as bad as what they did to Barbra Gordon in The Killing Joke. Taking her character and basicly turning her into a plot device destroys her own character and makes her folder for the guys to go crazy.

Yeah killing Neji off for NH is unforgivable.
And you're right Sakura was just pairing fodder for Naruto & Sasuke. Neither of them wanted her at the end.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

If Tetsuya Nomura was in charge then Sakura would be married to Naruto and she would have been happy and a head medic and mother.