12 replies to this topic

[Sir Whirly]

Over the past couple of days, Iranians have taken to the streets in protest over the latest election. The election results were posted in less than a day with an overwhelming 85%-35% landslide win for incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The opposition claims that those are impossible results, pointing out that somehow Ahmadinejad won the majority in the opposition's candidate Mir-Hossein Mousavi's hometown. On the third day of protest, things turned deadly, when a militia fired upon protesters outside of their compound. At least one confirmed dead, unconfirmed number wounded.

Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has ordered the Guardian Council, which oversaw the election, to investigate the fraud claims.

[Cloud]

First North Korea... now this.

I'm pretty sure God is just going "WTF" :cookie:

As if the world wasn't chaotic enough...

[Pite]

Wow, if they were to do fraud over these elections, at least could've made it plausible... People don't protest over a "landslide" victory...

[Sir Whirly]

Wow, if they were to do fraud over these elections, at least could've made it plausible... People don't protest over a "landslide" victory...

inorite?

[Lid]

There is going to be a recount according to BBC

[Nate River]

I think people are forgetting a few key facts.


(1) It's Iran. It isn't a Democracy, it's a dictatorship. Even Saddam's Iraq had elections.

(2) Most, if not all, the real power rests with the mullahs, with the President being mostly a figure head. The people that actually decide who is the ballot are the Mullahs. They have no primary system. They aren't chose by the people or a party. They are chosen by the real heads of state. Consequently, the other guy may be a "reform" candidate, but I don't believe he's "reform" in any sense that matters. The Mullahs would have never let him get this far, and even if he won and tried genuine reform, don't bet on him lasting.

(3) Given that the Mullahs are in charge in every way that matters, and that likely includes control over any recount, the winner will be whoever the Mullahs want it to be. They can claim whatever results they want, who has the power to go in, count them, and prove otherwise?

Ultimately, I don't understand why people are surprised. It's Iran, it's an "election" in a dictatorship. It means only slightly more than someone like Saddam getting 98% of the vote during his elections. Nothing about this is unexpected and, regardless of what happens, the results don't mean much.

[Sir Whirly]

Socially though, its fun to watch. It's kinda funny that the progressive guy is a moderate conservative.

[Derock]

I say that there is too much drama over there. Many want a recount (even the Iranians living in NY are complaining), many want what they want (referring to Nate's post). This isn't going to change

[Nate River]

I say that there is too much drama over there. Many want a recount (even the Iranians living in NY are complaining), many want what they want (referring to Nate's post). This isn't going to change

You misunderstand.

For them, drama is very much justified. They are citizens of an oppressive regime who feel as if they have been essentially told, screw you it doesn't matter what you want. And, sadly, it really doesn't matter what they want.

I very much understand the Iranians fury over this, though it does miss the point that changing the President doesn't change their fundamental problem (i.e. Iran is a dictatorship run by the Mullahs, who will do what many dictators typically do). Remember Florida 2008? People here STILL complain about that. This is a similar concept, except its fraud on a much larger and much worse scale. Despite numerous media comparisons, what happened to the Iranians is much worse. The Iranians don't get to take it court. The Mullahs can't and shouldn't be trusted to recount anything and they can't be voted out.

People whined about the Surpeme Court for eights years, but, hey, at least Gore had a court to take it to. The Iranians can't even do that.

My point was about the reponse here. Many people seemed hopeful about the recount or the reform candidate when neither truly matters so long as the Ayatollah controls power. The President is not the person they need to dethroan, it's the Ayatollah. What I didn't understand was why people here thought things would be any different, that it actually and didn't see this coming.

[Pite]

"It does not matter who votes, it matters who counts." - Stalin. Nuff said.

[Sir Whirly]

You misunderstand.

For them, drama is very much justified. They are citizens of an oppressive regime who feel as if they have been essentially told, screw you it doesn't matter what you want. And, sadly, it really doesn't matter what they want.

I very much understand the Iranians fury over this, though it does miss the point that changing the President doesn't change their fundamental problem (i.e. Iran is a dictatorship run by the Mullahs, who will do what many dictators typically do). Remember Florida 2008? People here STILL complain about that. This is a similar concept, except its fraud on a much larger and much worse scale. Despite numerous media comparisons, what happened to the Iranians is much worse. The Iranians don't get to take it court. The Mullahs can't and shouldn't be trusted to recount anything and they can't be voted out.

People whined about the Surpeme Court for eights years, but, hey, at least Gore had a court to take it to. The Iranians can't even do that.

My point was about the reponse here. Many people seemed hopeful about the recount or the reform candidate when neither truly matters so long as the Ayatollah controls power. The President is not the person they need to dethroan, it's the Ayatollah. What I didn't understand was why people here thought things would be any different, that it actually and didn't see this coming.

Not that it actually mattered, considering we are a republic. They say the popular vote counts....

[Sakura Blossoms]

Found that really great vid on young Iranians bloggers:

[Sir Whirly]

Found that really great vid on young Iranians bloggers:

Excellent video and I am surprised ultimately on how high the percentage of people 25 and under is in Iran. I hope that this can truly be change for them, but unfortunatly all I see is another Tinnamen(sp?) square. Break free from the tyranny and oppression of religion and truly become free!