15 replies to this topic

[Daissuke]

Lol, I wasn't sure where to put this, so I just put it in general @@

Well, I didn't think on it too much before, but then, a friend put it to me; he referred, in particular, to a genjutsu analysis of the one Itachi used on Naruto. Prior to this, I had always gone by my own interpretation, my belief backed by 299, that Naruto held Sakura and Sasuke in the same esteem. But, after reading the analysis, I'm actually quite convinced my interpretation was wrong and he actually values Sasuke more. Course, I was kinda upset cause I liked the balance-but, I suppose I'll get over it soon.

In the genjutsu sequence, Sasuke is shown appearing as the skin of the right side of Naruto's flakes away. In dream symbolism, your face is the persona you show to the world around you. That his face is flaking away shows that Itachi is stripping away the facade he shows to the world and revealing what truly lies underneath. The fact that the flaking begins at his right cheek, the part of the body that symbolizes commitment, intimacy, and closeness, show that whatever lies underneath is something that Naruto holds closest to his heart, the thing he is most committed to.

Those lines there I what pointed it out to me. My purpose of asking is basically this: were your thoughts similar to mine, or did you already know that Sasuke seemed to have more importance?

[Onionhead Attacks]

That's actually an interesting thought. Though based on what you say, could I also interpret it as Sasuke having such an integral part of Naruto's life that he's practically family to him? Also, Sasuke is his main reason for living right now, just to uphold that promise he had made to Sakura three years ago. So basically, Sasuke is his number one priority in his life in order to please Sakura since he's sacrificing his love for her for her happiness.

I'm sure there's more to it but I can't seem to think of anything as of now

[peanutbutter126]

Well, in a way Sakura and Sasuke are both equally important, I think, but Naruto considers their importance differently. Like, Sasuke is close to a brother to him, and as Lee-chan said, he's training so hard and everything to try and bring him back. And Sakura... hard to explain, but if you just look at it, you'll see that he cares a lot for her. The way he considers Sasuke is more prominent in the manga and anime - maybe he does think about Sasuke more, since Sakura is always with him. Naruto Shippuden basically does revolve around getting him back...

Though if you try to think about it another way... if he had a chance to save either Sasuke or Sakura, I really don't think Naruto would be able to choose. But then again, he's Naruto. I don't think he'll be able to choose between a friend and a stranger... blagh, it's making me think too deep! My opinion: they're just both really, really important to him.

I think I'm with you there, Daissuke - I've never thought about it, but now that I do I think I'd prefer the balance. Nice analysis of the genjutsu, though! I basically forgot about that.

[MagusKyros]

Does this sentence actually appear in the manga/databooks or is it some Japanese belief?

[Daissuke]

Ah. The analysis is not from a manga or databook; http://frodolass.liv...l.com/6803.html is where it's originated. A person took it upon themselves to do an interesting and detailed analysis on all the people appearing from Naruto in the genjutsu.

[Sora no Kitsune]

Well, in a way Sakura and Sasuke are both equally important, I think, but Naruto considers their importance differently. Like, Sasuke is close to a brother to him, and as Lee-chan said, he's training so hard and everything to try and bring him back. And Sakura... hard to explain, but if you just look at it, you'll see that he cares a lot for her. The way he considers Sasuke is more prominent in the manga and anime - maybe he does think about Sasuke more, since Sakura is always with him. Naruto Shippuden basically does revolve around getting him back...

I totally agree with you. To Naruto, their both equally important to hmi, but in diffrent way. To Naruto, Sasuke is like a brothe/rival and he 's also the promise he made to Sakura. He is putting aside his feelings for her own happines (though it might be for nought if NaruSaku ever does come to be) and Sakura is more like a best friend/girl friend (which he can only hope for untill the time finally comes.)

If Naruto has to choose between the two though, and not use shadow clone to save both at the same time, i think he would choose Sakura. Sasuke already had a chance to come back and passed it up and refuses to return to Konoha. He has loved sakura for more than 3 years now and compaired to a brother who left him for nothing, he would choose the women he loves and not the brother who doesn't love back.

[psycho666]

I personally think that the reason the symbolism was so heavily accented in favor of Sasuke that way was because his number one mission at that time was to rescue Sasuke. Not to mention Sasuke was one of the first people to ever influence on Naruto what family was like and having lost him, Sasuke is probably his main focus right now. It's not necessarily that he values Sasuke any more than he does Sakura but simply that when having lost a piece of family he had just gained he would become overdriven to reform that lost fragment and thus it becomes the other side of him. Also Naruto thinks of Sakura as more of a love interest and Sasuke is his brother, his family.

[Cloud]

If Naruto has to choose between the two though, and not use shadow clone to save both at the same time, i think he would choose Sakura. Sasuke already had a chance to come back and passed it up and refuses to return to Konoha. He has loved sakura for more than 3 years now and compaired to a brother who left him for nothing, he would choose the women he loves and not the brother who doesn't love back.

You're riding on the consensus of "IF".

Naruto isn't a smart cookie, he wants to make both happy. If he is able to save Sasuke and unite Sakura with him at the cost of his happiness, he'll do it.

He isn't selfish, he's selfless. So your IF situation is kinda paradoxical, because he loves both of them and doesn't/won't choose one over the other.

[chouzu_tao]

He isn't selfish, he's selfless. So your IF situation is kinda paradoxical, because he loves both of them and doesn't/won't choose one over the other.

Thusly he would find a way to save both, and not actually chose one.

I agree. But I don't think selflessness is stupid.

Anyway, it's all been said (what i wanted to). Right now it appears he is more concerned with Sasuke because right now he has to be concerned more for Sasuke. Sakura is safe, and near, and he does care for her but Sasuke is out in no where land.

[Cloud]

Never said selflessness was stupid, chouzu-buddy.

[Shika]

There's not really much to it. Naruto loves Sasuke and Sakura both. Ever since Sasuke saved Naruto from Haku, Naruto thought him as family. He wants to keep Sakura's promise, but that's not the only reason he wants to bring Sasuke back, Sasuke is the brother he never had, and he wants to prevent Sasuke from becoming a next Orochimaru of some sort.

[Tohno Shiki]

It's quite simple. While Naruto probably cares equally for Sakura and Sasuke (albeit in different ways), he has more reason to regret what happened with Sasuke. Whereas Sakura is right by his side and a close friend of his, Sasuke has drifted away from him. His inability to bring Sasuke back and the possibility that Naruto might never do so probably weighs down on his mind, to the extent that Sasuke has become Naruto's biggest regret. It's not surprising that Itachi's genjutsu ended up the way it did.

[Shika]

I wonder if everyone can agree on that...probably not. Hahaha.

[iwant2bnaruto]

Wow. That entire genjutsu analysis by frodolass was incredibly interesting. If there are those of you who have not read the thing in its entirety, it is definitely worth a read if you're interested in delving into the subtext of Naruto's character. Up until now, I had only read the excerpt regarding the symbolism of Sakura's appearance during the genjutsu on Mizura's NaruSaku Manifesto.

Of course, I found the part about Sasuke intriguing as I was unaware of the symbolism behind appearing on the right side of Naruto's face. Many have already expressed sentiments that I share on the issue of importance that Naruto holds for both Sasuke and Sakura.

I think that it's important to note that while the location of Sasuke's appearance in the genjutsu may denote commitment, intimacy, and closeness - I do not think it diminishes Sakura's (or any other of his surogate family's) importance to Naruto. Are we to assume that Jiraiya or Tsunade do not hold any type of importance to Naruto since they were absent during the genjutsu? I think there would be no arguing that Jiraiya and Tsunade are very precious to Naruto. So what does it mean? Psycho666 hit the nail on the head. At that point in Naruto's life, saving Sasuke is the most prominent motivational factor driving him. He just spent the last 2 1/2 years training to become stronger to accomplish that. At the time, Naruto was under the impression that Sasuke's time was limited so it was probably dominating his subconscious mind. I think that frodolass summed it up nicely:

"Since the role of the Hokage is to protect his village, in essence claiming its entire people as his/her precious people, the promise to save Sasuke, one of his most precious people, is like Naruto's test to himself, to see if he is truly worthy of being a Hokage. He cares for Sasuke as deeply as anyone can care for someone, willing to be torn limb from limb in order to save him."

Naruto is committed to save Sasuke and no one will question that he considers the avenger to be his brother. The fact that Naruto's desire to save his friend is so closely tied to his dream of Hokage, is very telling of the importance he places behind it. Naruto himself questioned his ability to become Hokage if he couldn't even save his friend. Then we saw how devastated he was after the second failed attempt to retrieve Sasuke. Simply put, Sasuke's deliverance is what Naruto is currently most committed to. At least...it was. I question what Naruto's motivation is now - retrieving Sasuke or making Pain pay for destroying his village and killing his sensei? Personally, I would say it is the latter. Does this mean that Sasuke is any less important to Naruto? I think not.

It's also worthwhile to note the sequence of appearance as Sakura was immediately after Sasuke. According to frodolass, an exposed stomach symbolizes trust and vulnerability and then explained its link to Naruto's unfulfilled promise to Sakura. Despite the importance Naruto placed on saving Sasuke, his desire to see Sakura happy is still a driving force. The promise of a lifetime was made to set aside his happiness in favor of Sakura's. It's sometimes easy to forget (especially for NaruSaku fans) that Naruto would have driven himself to save Sasuke without that promise anyway. The fact that Naruto made it and to Sakura no less, simply reinforces the commitment to save his wayward friend. This essentially propels Sasuke's importance to the top, thereby facilitating his appearance in the symbolic right side of Naruto face - signifying the thing Naruto is most committed to. In this context, I find that the importance of both Sasuke and Sakura are very much intertwined.

Of course, I have to wonder if Kishimoto really put this much thought behind that particular sequence in the manga. Regardless, it is fun to look into possible subtexts.

Edited by iwant2bnaruto, 25 January 2009 - 01:48 PM.

[chouzu_tao]

Never said selflessness was stupid, chouzu-buddy.

Guess not but you said something to that effect, "Naruto isn't a smart cookie, he wants to make both happy." then you went on to talk about him selflessness. I thought it was the segway in your debate point to selflessness.

And I want2bnaruto, you make a great point about Sasuke's retrival being linked to him becoming hokage. He's even said something to the effect of:

"How can someone who can't even save his friend become Hokage, right Sasuke?"

[Paptala]

This person also mentioned quite a bit about Sakura in their analysis, and I thought it was just as prominent as Sasuke's analysis.