98 replies to this topic

[Fyuria'sLeo]

 

There's not though. We are arguing as civilized people ^^  

 

Give me a few moments and I'll become uncivilized.

[Iwantbuns]

I kind of thought the same way when I first came to this site. However there's a big difference between us who appreciate Sakura's character - her flaws, as well as her capabilities. The NH fans who appreciate Hinata, literally do see her as a goddess. Why? Because they believe she has no flaws, and is the perfect match for Naruto. 

 

The main reason they worship Hinata is because of her unconditional love for Naruto. And why is that? Because that's all her character is about. 

 

I'm not saying one character is better than the other - neither of us should, especially when it comes to pairing them up with a guy (Naruto in this case). It's not a freaking contest. The thing is, Sakura and Hinata are both selfish in their own way. They're both talented in their own way. There shouldn't be worshipping, because they're both good female characters. They are also both "bad" female characters, because they do things out of selfish intent, they make mistakes, but they also work to fix them to the best of their ability. 

 

The majority of the NaruHina fans worship Hinata, and don't care much of Naruto's feelings. NaruSaku fans look at things more objectively. We actually take in the characters, and their development, and don't base it off of opinion. Do you think we've ever said "Sakura should be with Naruto, because she's the better girl!" No. And that's the main difference in our views. There are plenty of people on this site that end up liking Sakura's character. There are many on this site that like Hinata, and her character. It's a matter of preference if you think about it. But to say one is selfish than the other? It's not a competition to see which one's "better"

 

They're both selfish. And they're both goddesses ;) End of story.

[KeikoxYusuke]

I kind of thought the same way when I first came to this site. However there's a big difference between us who appreciate Sakura's character - her flaws, as well as her capabilities. The NH fans who appreciate Hinata, literally do see her as a goddess. Why? Because they believe she has no flaws, and is the perfect match for Naruto. 
 
The main reason they worship Hinata is because of her unconditional love for Naruto. And why is that? Because that's all her character is about. 
 
I'm not saying one character is better than the other - neither of us should, especially when it comes to pairing them up with a guy (Naruto in this case). It's not a freaking contest. The thing is, Sakura and Hinata are both selfish in their own way. They're both talented in their own way. There shouldn't be worshipping, because they're both good female characters. They are also both "bad" female characters, because they do things out of selfish intent, they make mistakes, but they also work to fix them to the best of their ability. 
 
The majority of the NaruHina fans worship Hinata, and don't care much of Naruto's feelings. NaruSaku fans look at things more objectively. We actually take in the characters, and their development, and don't base it off of opinion. Do you think we've ever said "Sakura should be with Naruto, because she's the better girl!" No. And that's the main difference in our views. There are plenty of people on this site that end up liking Sakura's character. There are many on this site that like Hinata, and her character. It's a matter of preference if you think about it. But to say one is selfish than the other? It's not a competition to see which one's "better"
 
They're both selfish. And they're both goddesses ;) End of story.

that was beautiful!

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Not everyone here hates Hinata. Some people like her. Or they're like me and just don't care about her. The Hinata hate is a little too much at times and I admit most of us are highly critical of her, but most have their own reasons for it. It's not because NH our rival ship or she's "just in the way" of NS (which she isn't, but that's beside the point).

 

I don't consider Hinata selfish. I consider her self-involved. She doesn't actively try to be malicious or purposely selfish. Hinata just lives in her own world and own thoughts and doesn't often consider how it affects other people. It's mostly sheer ignorance on her part, but that doesn't make her a bad person. Sometimes people like this need others to point out the self-involvement, but unfortunately no one has done this so Hinata's not able to grow. 

 

Hinata's issue that makes her seem selfish is because of how wrapped up she is in loving Naruto and using him as a inspiration crutch without ever trying to actually get to know him. We actually have to question in this fandom if Hinata even knows Naruto's love for Sakura because of how obsessive she is on her love. She doesn't try to understand his dreams, his feelings, she mostly just---for lack of a better expression---leeches off his confidence because she can't find any of her own.

 

Hinata is sweet and she is willing to throw down her life as any ninja would. She's not a terrible person. But yes, she's self-involved.  Much like Sakura was in Part 1 and to some degree still is today. However, Sakura is at least more aware of being self-involved and doesn't let it control her nearly as much as Hinata does. Again, this is just Hinata's ignorance.

 

Sakura is not perfect either. She has made of her share of mistakes. Sakura does has the capacity to be very self-involved on the occasion too, but she's different than Hinata. She's also developed into a person that's willing to sacrifice her own feelings for others to the point one of her flaws are ironically similar to Naruto's: she gives so much of herself and tries so hard to help people she ends up neglecting herself. Did you forget Sakura once said after finding out Naruto loved her she didn't deserve him? Does that sound like someone who's completely selfish and puts herself on a pedestal?

 

Sakura's confession wasn't entirely truthful, true. I don't agree with her method and I never did. But you're refusing to look at both sides of the situation. I love Naruto and Sakura as characters so when they make mistakes, I always try and look at both sides. I don't put either over a pedestal unless I truly believe the situation calls for it.

 

It was wrong for Sakura to "lie" Naruto about loving him and I'm sure it hurt him. But Sakura was giving up plenty too. Do you think it was easy for her to give up on Sasuke? To forcibly remove all hope for him and deny her feelings when she clearly had no closure to it yet? It was breaking her heart, but she did it because she cared more for Naruto's safety and taking the burden for him. She did it because she loved him and thought that he was more important than Sasuke no matter how much it hurt. It doesn't matter whether you think Sakura loves him platonically or romantically--- that was an act of pure love.

 

And in the 693 example. Again, you ignore exactly how Sakura was feeling and sympathize with Naruto only. It doesn't matter how ridiculous her feelings for Sasuke, the pain was real and since Sakura's a good person I still feel sorry for her. Once again her hopes of Sasuke good is crushed along with all her hopes of Team 7 and that was devastating for her so she lost it and appeared more selfish than she should've.

 

Naruto didn't need to hear that either. I'm sure on some level that made him sad. But do you honestly think Sakura doesn't care about his feelings? Her speech was an act of emotional breakdown, full of desperation and impulsiveness. She wasn't thinking "Oh kitten Naruto's feelings I need to confess to Sasuke-kun". In fact, she wasn't thinking at all. This is self-involvement, not selfishness. And knowing the type of person Sakura is, I'm sure she'll regret she said that in front of Naruto more than she probably even should.

 

Both Naruto and Sakura have the same personality issue. They care so much, they can be selfless to the point of selfishness. They willingly inflict pain on themselves for the people they care about, but they do it to such an extreme it can be what they think is right for them, not what the person actually thinks. 

 

In Naruto's case, he frequently ignores how people worry about him or feel guilty about how far he goes because he cares too much. He also faces pain for Sasuke because he thinks he needs to be saved even though Sasuke doesn't want it. With Sakura, he is so obsessed with this idea of her happiness with Sasuke even though it hurts him all the time when Sakura doesn't actually want to be Sasuke anymore. Nor does she want him to still burden the promise or actually is happy with Sasuke. Not only that, but they both always hide things from each other because they don't want them to worry even though both wouldn't be happy about that.

 

And Sakura? She isn't different at all. She's the same on Sasuke as Naruto is. Sakura has this idea she doesn't deserve Naruto and all she causes him his pain when Naruto would never think that once. And in the confession, she was sacrificing Sasuke when Naruto would hate seeing her do this to herself. She tried killing him for Naruto's safety despite the pain it caused her, risking him hating her which would also deeply hurt her. Yet, at the same time, she would hurt Naruto greatly by doing that and wasn't entirely respecting his wishes to save Sasuke.

 

Don't you see pattern between them? Why am I going to sympathize with one and ignore the other when there's two sides, especially when much of Naruto and Sakura's bad judgment are done for exactly the same reason? It's because they care. That doesn't mean they make right choices, but they only ever do things with good intentions.

 

Hinata and Sakura are both very flawed. Neither are perfect. But the reason I like Sakura more is because of all her development and how she has the same characteristic Naruto has: extreme care and self-sacrifice. In Sakura's case that's even more astounding because she was once not even close to that.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 21 October 2014 - 04:42 AM.

[ns.Believe.It]

I kind of thought the same way when I first came to this site. However there's a big difference between us who appreciate Sakura's character - her flaws, as well as her capabilities. The NH fans who appreciate Hinata, literally do see her as a goddess. Why? Because they believe she has no flaws, and is the perfect match for Naruto. 

I agree with the rest of your post but this quoted part is not true. I know for a fact that you are one of the few members here who both likes Sakura and can also acknowledge her faults. But I don't think you can generalize this to all the members here.

 

I have seen plenty of members here who worship Sakura in similar ways as the Hinata worshipping NH fans. There are a lot of members here who do not see, or rather who prefer not to see Sakura's flaws.

 

Best example was the reactions after 693. I like Sakura but I won't deny that her actions in that chapter were criticism worthy.

But you know, many of the 'extreme' Sakura fans here twisted it to an extraordinary degree and criticized Naruto for what happened in that chapter.  I am still baffled as to how they managed to do something like that. 

 

This thread is no different. Even here, I see posts deflecting the blame onto Naruto and other characters instead of just acknowledging that Sakura, like every other character in this manga, has flaws.

 

The worst part is - You get attacked and you are immediately declared a 'Sakura basher' or 'A pathetic Sakura fan' if you so much as mention that she has flaws.

 

It happened to me a few weeks ago. I pointed out that Hinata's love for Naruto is better written than Sakura's love for Sasuke. And I get responses telling me 'You are a terrible Sakura fan', 'Fans such as you are pathetic' etc etc. All because I pointed out that Hinata's love has helped her to grow as a person while Sakura's love has done nothing but hurt her 

 

I like Sakura as much as any other Sakura fan. I have defended her countless times in this site but I'm not gonna act as if she has no flaws. Naruto is my favorite character but you won't see me not acknowledging his flaws. I criticize his Sasuke obsession and I also criticize his 'all forgiving' philosophy. The same cannot be said of some hardcore Sakura fans here, they just do not want to accept the fact that she has flaws and I think this is what lord287 is pointing out. 

Edited by ns.Believe.It, 21 October 2014 - 06:02 AM.

[rocci]

@nsbelieveit
I acknowledge sakura flaw and I don't have any problem with chapter 693.

[Princess Iris]

@nsbelieveit
I acknowledge sakura flaw and I don't have any problem with chapter 693.

even I dun have problem with it


the reason why most of NS fams criticize her as they saw the chapter as Anti SS .....so not me


and i can point out her flaws
like Sasuke is still her weakness, She's very bad at dodging....very very bad etc.

[ns.Believe.It]

@nsbelieveit
I acknowledge sakura flaw and I don't have any problem with chapter 693.

I know.  I was not talking about all the members only a few. Iwantbuns generalized the statement that Sakura fans are better than Hinata fans. I was just pointing out that's not the case and there are extreme fans in all the fandoms. 

[Princess Iris]

I know.  I was not talking about all the members only a few. Iwantbuns generalized the statement that Sakura fans are better than Hinata fans. I was just pointing out that's not the case and there are extreme fans in all the fandoms. 

the reason why she said so is that Hinata fans are fanboys of .......u know what!!

plus they are in majority


but many of Sakura fans (most of) are SS so they dun hate Hinata

[Illnevergiveup3]

simple, because she admitted it herself.

[James S Cassidy]

I don't think anyone here makes Sakura "a goddess." We don't see her as flawless and we certainly don't praise her like she is the ultimate character. We feel she is flawed and that's what's great about her. She is actually a character who isn't perfect and that's what makes her perfect. She doesn't have special background or special parents. She doesn't get cheap upgrades or gain things because she is "the inheritor of some fate or destiny."

Sakura is a normal girl who has to go through abnormal problems and faces a lot of things that many other characters have the luxury of not going through. I am amazed she actually managed to keep up as much as she did.

Yeah, she has the problem with Sasuke, but then again I blame Kishi for this and not Sakura's character. Sasuke has been so hammered into the story and overplayed so many times. As some have said, Naruto has an even bigger problem when it comes to Sasuke because at least Sakura is willing to try things, but Naruto refuses to bend and refuses to live his life until Sasuke is  brought home. A couple of times I consider this much worse than Sakura's case. Chapter 693? Honestly, it was just a poorly written chapter and it basically has screwed up A LOT. People say it screwed up Sakura, but in reality it screwed up everything. It basically is a huge plot cliff.

Hinata. The biggest issue with her is not her as a character, but her fanbase who praise her. She is overplayed by her fanbase so much that it looks bad on her, but we NS fans actually have a bigger compliment for her....we don't want her to be pairing fodder. The NH fans treat Hinata with such disrespect that all they see her for is that pairing fodder, but we want to see her drop that love in favor of a better character for her.

She may do selfless acts, but they are for selfish reasons....For Sakura, it seems like the opposite. She does selfish acts for selfless reasons. Every character has a major flaw with then. Something they must over come, but sadly Kishimoto just didn't use those issue correctly. Instead of having them grow and developed naturally, he just kept them singing the note through out the manga.

As Romance Girl said, Naruto and Sakura both have the same problem....Sasuke.

I still am a strong believer that if Sasuke never existed, a good 60% of the useless drama would have been removed.

 

 

Best example was the reactions after 693. I like Sakura but I won't deny that her actions in that chapter were criticism worthy.
But you know, many of the 'extreme' Sakura fans here twisted it to an extraordinary degree and criticized Naruto for what happened in that chapter.  I am still baffled as to how they managed to do something like that.

I have to ask, what do you consider the members who don't blame Sakura or Naruto, but instead blame Kishimoto for possibly making a huge writing kitten up? Whatever the meaning that it was, it still doesn't change the fact of just how poorly written it made every character look and almost throwing out all the plot elements leading up to it.

 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 21 October 2014 - 07:59 AM.

[Sedna]

I think when people here label Sakura as a goddess they're just joking around. I dought that anyobe actually thinks
Sakura as a goddess that needs to be worshipped. I don't know why anyone would take us seriously. And I honestly find Hinata selfish for many reasons. It's definitely not because she gets in the way of NaruSaku.

1- Hinata vs Neji had potential to be a great fight. Instead of Hinata actually focusing on the fight, she thought about Naruto.

2- Hinata sacrificed her life for Naruto without thinking of everyone else. What about Kiba, Shino, or Kurenai? Do you know how sad they would've been if she had died? Hinata wasn't even considering their feelings when she interfered. She definitely wasn't considering Naruto's feelings when she did it!

Overall her character is pretty much Naruto centric. I wish she would focus on the people who truly helped her be successful in life. Kurenai or Kiba have done wayy more then Naruto has done for her. But instead of thanking those people who truly love her, she only thinks of Naruto.

[Chucky-kun]

I think when people here label Sakura as a goddess they're just joking around.

nonononono. You forgot the bit where Sakura's back has the white circle, representing the wholeness of the universe. Her diamond on her forehead is called the Byakugo no In. Guess what that sounds like? That's right, Byakugan. And then her diamond is the exact same place where Kaguya's third eye is. Coincidence? I think not. Pretty sure i just proved that Sakura is destined to get the Golden Byakugan thus elevating herself to Goddess status and better than Naruto and Sasuke. #logic

/s

[BlazingDynamo]

Not trying to bash but alot of Hinata fans praise Hinata because they act like she's a goddess like saying she will beat Sakura in a fight.

[Iwantbuns]

I agree with the rest of your post but this quoted part is not true. I know for a fact that you are one of the few members here who both likes Sakura and can also acknowledge her faults. But I don't think you can generalize this to all the members here.

 

I have seen plenty of members here who worship Sakura in similar ways as the Hinata worshipping NH fans. There are a lot of members here who do not see, or rather who prefer not to see Sakura's flaws.

 

Yeah... lol I realized my generalization the moment I posted it.

Didn't think someone would pick at it so quickly though xD

 

What I mean is most NaruSaku fans don't prefer shipping Sakura for superficial reasons. We actually delve into the characters, along with their flaws. We actually take in evidence from both sides (Naruto and Sakura), and we take in actual development. Of course there are plenty that ship Naruto and Sakura just for the heck of it, and I understand that. 

 

NaruHina fans tend to ignore Hinata's flaws. For example, her shyness. Many think that this is a cute part of her personality (myself included), but they don't understand that shyness is a flaw in Hinata's character. It prevented her from being able to get to know Naruto, and actually be there for him the way she wanted to. It's also a trait that Naruto isn't very fond of, but NH fans don't see this. In that regard they tend to see "opposites attract" when that's clearly not the case.

 

Most NaruSaku fans - in fact I think everyone here - is aware of Sakura's flaws. I think every Naruto fan is aware of Sakura's flaws. However the thing that (most) NaruSaku fans appreciate about Sakura, is how she grew out of these flaws. How she changed and developed, and became stronger - not just in strength. But personality, selflessness, mentality...

 

Hinata had her ups and her downs as well - however she didn't develop from her flaws. Those flaws continued being a part of her. She didn't create her own determination like Sakura, and she didn't have nearly as hard training as Sakura did from Tsunade, and and she didn't know enough of the pain that Naruto as well as Sakura went through when it came to Sasuke. Hinata felt left out? Well that's not something Naruto can relate to anymore. She still stutters, she still has confidence issues - unless it's in battle - it's hard for her to strike up a conversation, she still lives in her own little Naruto-world without truly interacting with him... True, Hinata's crush on Naruto is much safer than Sakura's on Sasuke's - but it's almost too safe. She barely knows him, yet she wants to have everything to do with him. There's a flaw in that, and that's something a lot of NaruHina fans don't see.

 

We're (most of us) perfectly aware of the flaws in Sakura's character, especially in her love for Sasuke. But at least she tried to get close with him, at least she tried to be there for him. Sometimes people need to see that Sasuke is the one at fault... he treats her like s**t, when she obviously cares so damn much about him. They're teammates for crying out loud, and Sasuke just totally erases these bonds, and Sakura doesn't want to live with that. Sakura wishes for a happy ending for Team 7. She wishes for the safety of Naruto. She wishes for Sasuke to not fall into the darkness.

 

But nothing ever seems to go that way for her. Hinata cannot relate to the Team 7 drama... Who knows if she's even aware of it?

 

They're both good characters, with good intentions, but like I said, not everything goes right for them. Hinata is just as flawed as Sakura was - however Sakura actually works at getting rid of her flaws for the people she cares about. Hinata doesn't do that. She does it for herself, she uses Naruto as inspiration for herself, she trains for herself. She doesn't want to be useless (the exact same can be said for Sakura) however Sakura developed much more than Hinata ever did.

 

And as for the selfish thing - they're both selfish, and can be selfish. They're also both capable of being very selfless. At the same time, their characters are very different.

 

I tried to make that less general. I believe there's a difference between a NaruHina fan who likes Hinata, and a Hinata fan who likes Hinata. I remember someone trying to convince me that anti-NaruHina automatically means anti-Hinata. These people like Hinata because most of them are of the opinion that she's "perfect" to ship with Naruto. The main reasons are that she's nice and kind and the complete opposite of Sakura who's apparently forever a "b***h," and doesn't deserve Naruto. Almost all of Hinata's character revolves around her crush on Naruto, which is not necessarily a good thing for the character. Same goes for Part 1 Sakura. However Sakura got passed trying to imagine a relationship with Sasuke. She is no longer a fangirl, but she will always love him. Hinata however is still a fangirl, because loving him from far away doesn't make it any less fangirlish. 

 

It's just a cause for absolutely zero foundation for an actual relationship (friendly or not). Both Sakura and Hinata's crushes are flawed, but (most) NaruHina fans are more ignorant on seeing any flaws in Hinata's crush on Naruto.

Edited by Iwantbuns, 22 October 2014 - 12:03 AM.

[TyranntX]

I think you have it backwards. Hinata is the one who is treated like a goddess (even though she doesn't deserve it) and Sakura is the one getting needlessly bashed. and I find it completely annoying. once the manga ends I'll make a video about it and post it on you tube and link it here on the forum.

[BlazingDynamo]

I think you have it backwards. Hinata is the one who is treated like a goddess (even though she doesn't deserve it) and Sakura is the one getting needlessly bashed. and I find it completely annoying. once the manga ends I'll make a video about it and post it on you tube and link it here on the forum.

It be like oh Hinata is a goddess she can beat up Sakura I'm like no

[KnS]

While Hinata is not my kind of character and I wouldn't be able to spend ten minutes with her without wanting to scream or punch something, I have always said she's a nice girl who means well.  Nevertheless, Hinata's flaws bug me more than Sakura's.  

 

See, first and foremost, these girls are supposed to be ninja.  The team dynamic is a very important part of not only training ninja, but in forming bonds with your teammates that will improve your skills and ability to work together as a unit.  Their lives depend on each other.

 

Despite Sakura's flawed feelings for Sasuke and approach to solving the problems within Team 7's personal dynamics, her issues are still about her team.  Her biggest mistake (after crushing on Sasuke to begin with) was how she implemented her choice of Naruto over Sasuke.  But it proved that her boys -- her team -- matter the most to her.

 

Hinata's feelings for Naruto are different. She hasn't spent time with him and doesn't really know him, and certainly not in the intimate way Sakura knows either of the boys on her team.  At this point in Hinata's training and development as a ninja, she should be focusing on her relationships with Shino and Kiba.  

 

She shouldn't be so obsessed with a boy that is not on her team, especially when she knows she is weak and behind her peers in terms of confidence and raw ability.  She shouldn't care so much for a boy that isn't on her team that she becomes flustered, distracted, and willing to abandon her assignment to run after him.

 

If Kiba or Shino had been down at the same time as Naruto, do you honestly believe that Hinata would have done what she should and stayed with her teammate?  No, she would have left him to others -- or to die -- while she used her last bit of chakra to trip on a rock trying to get to Naruto.  A guy who is not her responsibility.

 

Whether we like it or not, because of the team bond and dynamic, Sasuke is Sakura's responsibility in a way that Naruto will never be Hinata's.  

 

The day I see Hinata making responsible, difficult decisions as a well-trained ninja is the day I will have respect for her.

[Nate River]

The day I see Hinata making responsible, difficult decisions as well-trained ninja is the day I will have respect for her

It's hard to criticize Hinata for failing to do things the titular character fails to do all the time.

[AnimeGirl_123]

I might be one of the few here on this site that doesn't consider Hinata selfish, mainly because Naruto himself thought what Hinata did was a good thing (chapter 559 when he says "you saved me twice").  Sakura was only thinking of Naruto's feelings when she made that confession in chapter 469.  She wanted to rid him free of the burden she thought she put on him.  That's not selfish.  Both characters aren't perfect; that's what makes them both likable IMO.