That's a pretty big misconception on Death Battles part... Goku's pretty much a genius when in battle, even getting two tropes
http://tvtropes.org/...ain/IdiotSavant and
http://tvtropes.org/...Main/GeniusDitzWell, we're splitting a line here about what we can define as "intelligent." While Goku is a genius when it comes martial arts, he can be gullible at times.
I think this is what Death Battle was trying to say. You can be intelligent in one area and in another area be stupid.
Goku has a childish intellect and while he can get serious at times, he mostly stays very naive more than most. Compared to Superman who is like having Goku's strength and tenacity with Shikamaru's brains. There are times when Goku's enemies actually got a jump on him because of it. This is both a gift and a curse as it can lead to people underestimating him, but at the same time the could with enough brain power out smart him.
I dare to say that if Goku didn't have the power to withstand the punishment of the mistakes, I doubt he would get out of it. Not to say other characters don't do the same, but Goku does it more often than not.
I like Goku, but facts are there are times when people have outsmarted him.
I really think DB got this right where Goku wouldn't be able to connect Superman with the sun nor think to teleport him to a red star. Compared to Superman, who in the comics has used his brain in times when needed. He even used the plan of illusion to psyche out some enemies into submission and did it with such precisions that they never even saw it coming.
I don't see Goku being like a Shikamaru type genius and plan out things, but Superman has shown to do it when needed.
I see what you're trying to say. Yes Goku relies on Ki but like Superman Goku is an alien and Saiyans are strong no matter what due to the fact that they are a warrior race, they are quite basically born to fight. I remember in the series Saiyans were described as feral beings that were naturally physically strong, but not too bright. The night of a full moon also ultimately brought out their raw power, plus their ability to become stronger after surviving near death experiences is formidable as well. I'm sure that they were never aware that they were using "Ki" since Vegeta and Nappa couldn't suppress their power or sense other power levels when they arrive on Earth. I'm guessing to them it's just natural to use "Ki" but they have no idea what it is.
But yeah I'm just nerding out so lets get to what you're trying to say ^^' If we were to have no yellow sun for Superman and no Ki accessing for Goku the outcome would be different, at least in my opinion it would. I know I'm a Goku fangirl but aside from that I think he would win simply because he's stronger, even without Ki. Goku's race is stronger since they are natural born killers. So I would think that without Ki Goku would still be far more powerful then a normal human, or even stronger then Satan. We add all his fighting techniques to his natural strength and Superman would have his hands full. Yes Supe does have a wide array of techniques just like Goku, but in the end the fight would be like a human against a much stronger alien, even though Superman is an alien too.
I was having this talk with my hubby on this topic; he knows far more about Superman and most other superheros then I do, but please correct me if both he and I are wrong. So then if our universe had no yellow sun but a red sun instead wouldn't Superman be a regular human? At least when it comes to strength that is. If so Goku would have the upper hand in physical strength. Now I'm not sure if you meant to just have both Goku and Superman as humans, because from what I understand we were just taking away just Goku's Ki accessing which even without does little to change his races natural strength. If you did mean to have them both stripped of everything including bloodline then that fight would be one to see. It would be sweet to see who's techniques would win over the others.
Yeah, but Kryptonians are not like humans either. His race also has their own abilities that, while not like the Saiyens, still have an ability that out-passes a normal human earthling. What I find is is that while a Kryptonian might not have the strength, they might even the field with intelligence. They are able to gain high amounts of intelligence the same way a Saiyen can amount strength. Even having technology that far surpasses anything. They can make technology from crystals. How crazy is that? They can even use their minds to enhance their bodies even more.
So I believe this comes down to brain vs brawn on this one and Goku is still fleshy. Even Saiyens, with enough force, can bleed. I mean, even Yajirobi was able to cut off Vegeta's tail and he is fat and not physically fit. Makes you wonder.Another thing is, I am not sure how much strength Goku actually has without his Ki. If DB is to go by, Master Roshi as able to defeat Goku when he ran out of Ki and used his intelligence. Granted, Goku was a kid at the time, but just saying that without their Ki to amplify, they could be beaten.
Here is a good question, if Goku had no Ki energy, would he still be able to block sharp weapons and guns? I think it runs with the same principal with Supermen that without that amplify, he can bleed much more easily. Saiyens have a natural ability to adapt, but again Goku is adapting to earth's standards and he had to train under 100 times earth's gravity to get massively stronger.
Because Saiyens are very strong, they don't like to enhance their brain in other fields beyond fighting and naturally living. Could they? I am sure they can, they just choose not to. I think the same could be said about the Kryptonians. COuld they get stronger strength wise? Sure, but their intelligence is their strongest point.
and Yes, a red sun would make Superman human. In the second movie, I believe, he was exposed to red sun radiation to strip him of his powers.
God, this is hard typing on an IPad.
Edited by James S Cassidy, 26 January 2013 - 09:15 PM.
