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SERIOUSLY?!! Like I'm sure that's gonna work for them  .  That just screams incompetence if anything else, this is also one of the major problems I have with today's storytelling they're basically treating the fans as idiots like we have no reading comprehension at all I mean how stupid do they think we are really? Fool me once and its over its why I haven't touch upon anything Nardo related since its ending nor do I care what's going on, they can reap what they sow with their new audience I'm sure its going "great" for them  .   

It's not working out for them, no, but that's the downside of them slipping into a hole of their own making. There's really nothing they can do at this point save continuing on the path they are or canceling it and moving on to something else. They're obviously reluctant to do the latter, since Naruto was once the biggest manga in the world and an international hit. Anything else is off the table, because short of completely rewriting the last two to three hundred chapters of Naruto into something cohesive and logical you can't fix that story. They made Bibibab and Ceasersalad and Himawiggiwoo and whoever else. Now they have to deal with them.

In this case, they're obviously hoping if they go back to the dynamic of the early days with a new coat of paint, they can try to recreate whatever magic was there that hooked people, but they're not only being too literal about it, they're ignoring the fact that it's easy to see it's shaping into the same story. It's the Walking Dead problem, where your stories hinge on a basic, easy to spot cycle readers/viewers eventually get wise to and question. They'd be served well by trying to break from the mold and do something interesting in another direction, but it seems they've hobbled themselves with a flash forward and while I'm a fan of starting with a shocking scene in the future and then building to how we got there, it's probably not a great choice for a years-long action-adventure saga you're going to deliver in monthly chunks that barely advance the story.

Such a weird choice of how to do things.

They already all but outright called a majority of fans idiots when called out on how BS the whole ending was. Not just pairings, but the ending as a whole with the plot-holes, @$$pulls, hypocrisy and contradictions, and the whole weak and pathetic "red herring" excuse afterwards when pointing out the non-existent NH development against the development of NS and the generational parallels made numerous times.

Literally saying we "didn't read the manga right".

There was never going to be any other reaction from them. They made their choice and they had to stick by it, even if it was clear it was the wrong one. They were, after all, hyping up the new next generation sequel they wanted to sell. They're not going to admit they blew it with the original because their choice is the entire foundation for their continuation. They're completely full of s***, but I find it easier to simply accept that you can't expect better from something like this.

The one thing I’ll never understand is if Hinata was the intended love interest for as long as people say, why on earth did Kishimoto do nothing with them during the Team 8 arc? There was plenty of chances for meaningful interaction and we got none. It didn’t even have to be romantic. Just something to deepen there bond or at least suggest some kind of mutual interest. I think there was a rehash of her fainting, which is the main manga in a nutshell. It repeated the same stuff it established in part 1, but never did anything to move the ball. Just restatements. That Team 8 arc neglect (and 297) are the biggest reason I’ve never been able to buy the idea it was intended all along.

The thing is, it's hard to believe it was intended all along simply because it's hard to believe anything was intended. The manga would shift directions on a dime and never really built to anything. I think it was very much a "plot as you go" series.

I wouldn't be surprised if (one of) the original intent(s) was for Pein to be the final, ultimate enemy (with the whole "the Rinnegan is the strongest doujutsu" talk, the capturing of Biju / Jinchuriki, and the way Naruto is celebrated afterwards), which would then leave the path open for Naruto to find and confront Sasuke and have an actual meaningful final fight between them as opposed to how pathetic Naruto was made to look due to his obsession with "saving" Sasuke and then constant Uchiha and Sharingan wanking leading into the whole "change the system" crap that doesn't truly go anywhere, and everything in-between, then perhaps they could work together to take down Itachi (without all the stupid double agent crap) thus giving Sasuke closure and could return with Naruto and accept responsibility for what he did and such.

I get the feeling that the original intent for an ending changed at least four times and nothing was ever planned beyond a final fight between Naruto and Sasuka. Orochimaru was built up for a long time in the manga as the main enemy and his actions drove a lot of the plot for a good while, enough it seemed clear he was going to be the "final boss". He was cast aside. Akatsuki stepped up and they built the leader/Pein for a while, but the actual group came off like kind of a joke, Pein was talk no jutsued into undoing anything he'd accomplished and it was all just forgotten. Then we got Tobi and the whole Madara thing and it just got out of hand from there.

It's a "ninja" series that calls an extremely bright and loud move that requires the user to essentially banzai charge as fast as they can - but needing to have special eyes to prevent tunnel vision - and hope they manage to impale their target through the head or heart and then leaves them wide open for a counterattack an "assassination technique"....

Yeah, ninja were always an odd fit for what was essentially a DBZ style action comic. It never really involved spying, assassination and the like. The closest it came was the occasional mercenary work. Otherwise, it's like... theming aside, what made them ninja? They were basically superheroes or wizards by another name. I felt the same even back when I liked the series.

It's also sad that I feel the chemistry between father and son here than I ever did in Boruto.

The most recent God of War really shocked me in how much attention to detail and care was put into its own story of a father and son, too. Really moving story about trying to be better than you were and set an example for the next generation while acknowledging you can't just bury your past, no matter how much you want to. Kratos was the last character I ever thought I'd see get a story like that, but it worked.

Seems like fathers and sons are working out as a story choice of late.

My thoughts: Good and Bad

Maybe this time... they will kiss.

There's a decent chance what's in that cutscene is about as far as it's ever going to go. It's a Japanese game, after all, and culturally things like PDA and kisses are generally seen as "behind closed doors" things over there, which translates to the media as well. I suspect that's why the "indirect kiss" is such a prevalent thing. I'm actually trying to think of the last time I saw a kiss in a Japan made piece of entertainment and I'm drawing a complete blank; I'm sure examples exist and that I've even seen them, but hell if I can remember one right now.

Not trying to be a downer, I just think keeping the culture that made it in mind is good for tempering expectations. Honestly, given the lore and world of Kingdom Hearts, what they did there is probably a lot more meaningful anyway.

HAHAHAHAHAHA - Yes, that's sooooo true! NH-ers seem to forget that, don't they?!?

I'm sure they don't forget. It's just hard to acknowledge it. Seriously, who would want to deal with their ship ending up so bleak?

I actually feel kind of bad for them. Actually bad, not sarcastic or mockingly saying that. It can't be fun to like a ship and be as into it as shipper tend to be, have it become canon despite all odds only to realize that none of the build, the moments leading up to it, all the stuff romance stories in life and in fiction are made of ended up in the story at all. It was just thrown in at the end, with a movie trying mightily to justify it at the eleventh hour, when it's far too late to try and believably make a foundation for it. Then, worse than that, one of the two is so clearly miserable and unhappy with his life he skips any family event and spends almost no time with them to the point his son kinda hates him.

That's crushing. If NaruSaku had actually happened and the latter had been the end result it would feel like s***. I'm not shocked if they don't want to acknowledge any of that openly and get defensive.

She freaking walked up and slapped Evil Buu, not fearing him at all.

'nuff said.

Compare and contrast to the one time Hinata tried to stand up to a major villain, gave a speech and confession, then rushed forward just to get punked immediately without even getting a hit in.

Trying to compare them in any way is just such an insane prospect; say what you want about Chi-Chi, but the lady has a spine of steel. She's not meek about dealing with the people she loves, either. She'll get her hands dirty to keep everyone in line. Handy, given she's married to a manchild - a lovable one, of course - and has had a couple of kids with a habit of getting wrapped up in dangerous, deadly conflicts on a semi-regular basis. She got a little annoying from time to time but for the most part Chi-Chi's awesome.

DragonBall is usually the prime example, claiming that Kishimoto was inspired by VegetaxBulma (not realizing he hated DragonBall Freiza saga and thereafter), and trying to compare Chi-Chi to Hinata (uh, NO).

I assume they were trying to push the "well Chi-Chi just came out of nowhere and married Goku" thing, right? Because I don't know how else anyone could try to compare those two characters without being completely out of their mind. Their personalities are polar opposites. Even the "well Chi-Chi wasn't in Dragonball much" connection is suspect, because she showed up a couple times, had actual interactions with the object of her crush, extracted a marriage promise from Goku (who didn't understand at the time, but followed through) and was proactive enough to track his ass down at the World Martial Arts Tournament when they were both teenagers and even fought him in one of the official rounds when she got upset he didn't recognize her. Chi-Chi gets s*** done, man, even with as little screentime as she had pre-Z and with as little focus as was put on anything resembling romance. Hinata was just, well... she sure did exist.

I was so betting on Sasuke biting the dust though, for real. That guy has flirted with death so many times, done so many bad deeds... like it's a fact that him and plot armor are more intimate with each other than him and Sakura...

I agree - I always though it would be Sasuke who would die. Or at the very least become the new 'Jiraiya' traveling monk figure — a powerful, fascinating old friend of theirs whose visits to Konoha always meant bad news. But one who lives so far outside of the realm of Konoha's day-to-day that he's nearly forgotten about for half the series. Literally, like Jiraiya. And which is practically the same as being dead - lol.

Sasuke dying would have made sense, sure. At the very least, he should be the most wanted man in the world, Vash the Stampede style. Once you've reached the point where a buncha Kage's are saying "this guy's a major problem, we're going to need to take care of this" you can't really step that back. But I never once thought it would happen.

The writing in Naruto was... I don't necessarily want to say predictable, because if you know enough about stories and how to properly tell them, or if you've even just read enough stories, you can tell where a lot of them are going to go. But it definitely fell into patterns. The manga never really liked to kill anyone, even when it would have made sense, unless the character was unimportant. Even in the case of the latter - someone like Neji - it might pull back, only to do it much later when all the emotional impact it might have had would have been gone. Given how it had been admitted that Sasuke was the favorite character of the author and how the entire manga hinged on "redeeming Sasuke" it was clear even early in Part 2 there was no way he bit the dust. I'd always figured he was going to get a pardon when Naruto became Hokage even if it made no sense for anyone to accept that - I guess it was a curveball that it ended up being Kakashi - though I hadn't guessed the f***ery that would come. I expected about what you'd expect for a happy ending; Naruto becomes Hokage before the end, wins Sakuras heart (probably before the end, but then, Shönen loves to leave pairing stuff for the end), defeats Sasuke and drags him home to answer for what he's done, maybe they make peace, then pardons him or whatever and has him confined to the village under basic house arrest (because even if Konoha pardons him why the hell would the other nations?)

Also, looking back at how the anime fandom used to be. I know we have discussions about why Naruto fell into disgrace over here, but it's something that's been on my mind lately. In ye olden days, it seemed like everyone had the same reference pools due to the small amount of anime and manga actually available to people. It seems like in the early 2000's, the anime community was more a whole due to this, with everyone watching the same stuff. Now with so many shows and comics  readily available, and Naruto becoming the definition of "shonen-crap," no wonder it got lost by the wayside.

Yeah, a lot of anime got passes they'd never get today because far fewer made it over here. One I fondly remembered watching on early Adult Swim is called Blue Gender. It's... not great. See also, Gundam Wing. We didn't have a high exposure to the anime style and tropes at the time, since we only really got what hit TV (unless you traded tape). High speed internet and streaming really changed the game. Now you can watch pretty much anything that comes out over there on a simulcast.

What bothers me about that scene now is the context of it, which has changed given how the manga ended. Given canon, we have to assume she was lying, so we'll go with that. She really had no need to say that she loved him unless she did or she was just trying to manipulate him through his feelings for her. She could have just said that she released him from the promise. No other explanation was needed. She could even have BS'd about not caring about Sasuke anymore if she wanted. Because, really, what does it accomplish? It confuses the issue with Naruto, who does love her and messes with his feelings for... what, exactly? The next chapter, she's off down the Uchiha brick road and Sai's left to explain what he thinks just happened. It sure creates an awkward discussion for later, namely whether she meant what she said, with the even more awkward admission she lied because reasons.

It's why everyone assumed she was telling the truth about that part. There was little reason for her to drag Narutos feelings into it. Taking writers and retcons and anything outside the world of the manga out of consideration, it's probably the worst thing the character's done.

In the manga, it was how he kept trying despite his own sadness. Hinata took that as inspiration, using it to empower herself. The Last created this whole scenario of him saving her at a young age by using shadow clones or something, so their love story is based on a retcon. Not to mention how Japanese audiences really hated Hinata's actions in that movie, calling her a horrible sister.

Hoo boy. I guess they had to do something. You can't really alter much within the actual manga timeframe, so you either go before it started or just start from scratch. I guess they went with "event he forgot".

The existence of The Last is always going to be one of the strangest things ever done in franchise media. Even if someone wanted to believe the pairings were always meant to pan out the way they did in the manga, it's impossible to escape the fact that they needed to make an entire movie as an authors saving throw simply because the manga never bothered to do even the slightest bit with them. At that point, why even bother?

Aside from the obvious answer that they wanted a spin-off with the kids of the leads.

Worth noting that the writing had already gone off a cliff at that point and none of our main characters really came off the greatest. Naruto was so hung up on Sasuke I once remarked that he came off closer to a obsessive ex who can't let go. Sasuke, meanwhile, seemed bound and determined to become so irredeemable the manga couldn't possibly end with him redeemed through anything other than simple author fiat. Sakura probably annoyed me the least, at the time, of anyone. Hell, I still think that scene makes no sense if she is lying about the confession, or at least it makes no sense if the author didn't want Sakura to come off like a total a$$hole.

I'd argue against the idea that scene retconned anything, regardless. It didn't really give us any definitive answers about how she felt, conjecture by Sai aside, much less change any prior continuity.

I will never understand her popularity. I understand the appeal of her POTENTIAL, but potential means diddly squat if you don't show results. It's like someone was told they had great potential as an MMA figher, but instead of training and putting in the effort, they bribe the judges to give them the belt. 

 

I still don't understand why she's viewed as this sexual figure. There are so many other anime out there where the girls are curvier, show more skin and have actual personalities (even bad ones are better than whatever Hinata has going for her).

 

They see this in Hinata:

 

Before the ending, I saw this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I didn't forget to post the image, that space literally represents how I saw Hinata back then.

 

 

But AFTER the ending:

 

Hey now! That's very hurtful to say... about Jar Jar. Even he had more character.

I genuinely don't even get what the potential was for the same reason I never hated her. There wasn't enough there to gauge her potential as a character or to hate. She has as much development or screen time as the average background friend in some manga. What we had to go on consisted of her outfits, some shyness, hiding behind poles and one or two fight scenes where she either barely held her own or got punked. Sure, something could conceivably be made of her, but you'd almost need to make it from scratch, because there's just not enough there. Worse still, her personality really makes that hard. What can you really do with a Yamato Nadeshiko who doesn't even seem to have any real hobbies or interests outside of Naruto and has no real fight capabilities without changing it and making some stuff up whole cloth? Outside of her super eyes - always with the kittening eyes in this series - she doesn't have much to work with and never compared in skill to most of the other background ninja friends.

I do just generally think part of it was wanting to see the "nice girl" beat the tsundere for once, because I've seen a fair bit of saltiness over the years about that, despite the fact that the default nice girls some favor are also painfully boring, character-wise, which is why they aren't the kittening leads, and despite the fact they forget these are Japanese product and the tsundere hitting the dumb love interest comes from a cultural love of slapstick and is meant to be comedy. The Downtown crew do the No Laughing challenge every year and their punishment games for a reason. I doubt they get off on being hit.

 

Really? I remember back then that fanfiction was regularly torn to shreds by fandoms all over. Only recently has fanfiction come to some attention with many authors confessing they do fanfiction in their spare time and...FiftyShades (Why? WHY!?)

 

Still, with Naruto fans have a habit of filling in the blanks with their own head canons.

Yeah, fanfiction's only started to gain some acceptance recently, in my opinion. I've read fanfiction since the early 2000's and it always had a shaky reputation.  I have seen what RulesofNature describes happen on occasion, though, where some parts did sort of catch in the collective consciousness, or at least caught on within fandom and sort of became "fanon". I remember an early example being in DBZ fanfics where Saiyans and their mates could communicate telepathically. Couldn't tell you where it started but it picked up steam for a while (hell, maybe it's still a thing, I haven't read DBZ fanfiction in thirteen or fourteen years). I don't think anyone in that case was fooled into thinking it might have been a thing in canon, though.

Evangelion has either the Peggy Sue or the fix fic, though to be fair that's partly because, you know, what the hell else do you do with the end of that particular hot mess and was at least sort of canonized in recent years with what the Rebuild films seemed to be doing.

 

I even saw one comment saying "If we could make it happen with Naruto, why not here?" Not only do they not take the author's preference into consideration, but they think it's okay to turn a story into a popularity contest (and admit that's what happened to Naruto).

That's sort of the problem with allowing a group to think something happened because of their influence. They get super cocky, bolder and start thinking they can act however they want because it will force people to give them what they want. This behavior is getting really bad in the video game sphere right now. See the recent Spider-Man mess with Insomniac, where people demanded the Sam Raimi suit - because question mark, I mean the damn thing is just the stock Spider-Man suit with a slightly different symbol and raised webbing - and acted like spoiled pieces of kitten, not realizing or not caring there were very obviously rights issues involved given how screwy the Spider-Man film rights can be. Then the suit came out and they claimed victory, got smug, and started wondering what else they could force to happen, completely ignoring the controversy had gone on for no more than a week or two, the fact you can't just pump something like that out and get it certified by Sony that freaking quickly and the fact it was obviously in the works all along and they just couldn't talk about it.

They should have received nothing, but I suppose when you make something like that you're probably not going to just keep from releasing it because fans are pricks.

What is it, 40 pages she appeared on? Roughly 2.5 chapters worth of showtime, most of it doing stuff like showing she doesn't believe Naruto can succeed, being surprised when he does, caring for Naruto at the expense of others, putting others in danger with her obsession, then finally somehow having his kids.

If it's not forty total, it's not too much more. Which is what always made it astonishing to me that she was as popular as she was. She's never around. And, I mean, you could say it was just the large boobs - I've seen people claim that - but I've known women who liked both her and the NaruHina pairing. I'm still friends with one (though she's admitted to me in the past that by the end she was only reading the series because of sunk cost and wasn't even happy with the ending or how her pairing was canonized). What was the appeal? The cuteness? The loyalty? Some desire to see the nice girl win over the tsundere for once? Was the absence of character the appeal, since it allows the reader to decide most of their personality for themselves?

Everybody complains about shallow characters from time to time, but Hinata's one of a few that proves you don't need depth to be crazy popular. She had about as much character depth as a puddle.