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Sakura was written to be Disliked


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#81 DrK

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Posted 23 July 2018 - 08:51 PM

Most of the Hinata fans were honestly anime fans. So they would have gotten pissy once they heard about the manga's ending, but if the last was still about glorying Hinata they would have gone on and on about how much better the anime is over the manga to the point they considered it the true canon. Kishimoto's reputation wouldn't be torn to shreds, and he would probably be far into his next manga.

Kishi is so nice and obedient, isn't he? It's like his real self insert is Hinata to SP's Naruto.



#82 hisaberpie

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 03:32 PM

Im joining this topic late but i don't think sakura was written to be disliked, fans on the internet are just cruel. The only reason sakura is disliked is because she gets in the way of peoples favorite pairings. For example, uraraka hasn't done anything annoying or kitteny in the MHA manga but there are still people who hate her, they'll claim she useless but in actuality they only hate her because she gets in the way of their yaoi pairings.

 

So i think its not the way sakura was written that makes people hate her but because she gets in the way of so many pairings. Naruhina, narusasu and sasukarin are all ships that ive seen hating on sakura. I really don't see any other reason to hate one her.



#83 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 04:16 PM

Im joining this topic late but i don't think sakura was written to be disliked, fans on the internet are just cruel. The only reason sakura is disliked is because she gets in the way of peoples favorite pairings. For example, uraraka hasn't done anything annoying or kitteny in the MHA manga but there are still people who hate her, they'll claim she useless but in actuality they only hate her because she gets in the way of their yaoi pairings.

 

So i think its not the way sakura was written that makes people hate her but because she gets in the way of so many pairings. Naruhina, narusasu and sasukarin are all ships that ive seen hating on sakura. I really don't see any other reason to hate one her.

 

Yeah, it just is pathetic that they wanna hate her for that and her initial attitude when she'd gotten so much better. But they just didn't care, and it just shows hypocrisy when Hinata never changed at all, yet they get all super pissed as if it's the end of the world if we call BS on her and such.



#84 Phantom_999

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 04:38 PM



Im joining this topic late but i don't think sakura was written to be disliked, fans on the internet are just cruel. The only reason sakura is disliked is because she gets in the way of peoples favorite pairings. For example, uraraka hasn't done anything annoying or kitteny in the MHA manga but there are still people who hate her, they'll claim she useless but in actuality they only hate her because she gets in the way of their yaoi pairings.

 

So i think its not the way sakura was written that makes people hate her but because she gets in the way of so many pairings. Naruhina, narusasu and sasukarin are all ships that ive seen hating on sakura. I really don't see any other reason to hate one her.

 

While I STRONGLY disagree with this statement and I know any actual fan of the series does, I suppose the reasoning for that is the typical focus more heavily on the guys than the girls so the girls don't get to showcase as much on their abilities and prove to be able to stand evenly with the guys, even though they can. And Admittedly my point of contentions is even for all secondary characters is that the girls are less emphasized in the action scenes. But let's not forget, Ochako took down Himiko and captured her, and Himiko is quite dangerous having nearly killed Rock Lock, so that aspect is just haters hating, because Ochako is FAR from a useless crying damsel like other female characters :yes:  


Edited by Phantom_999, 08 August 2018 - 11:48 PM.

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#85 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 05:15 PM

 

While I STRONGLY disagree with this statement and I know any actual fan of the series does, I suppose the reasoning for that is the typical focus more heavily on the guys than the girls so the girls don't get to showcase as much on their abilities and prove to be able to stand evenly with the guys, even though they can. And Admittedly my point of contentions is even for all secondary characters that don't get much focus the girls are less emphasized in the action scenes. But let's not forget, Ochako took down Himiko and captured her, and Himiko is quite dangerous having nearly killed Rock Lock, so that aspect is just haters hating, because Achako is FAR from a useless crying damsel like other female characters :yes:  

 

Yeah, all the girls in My Hero Academia, be they students or Pro Heroes, are really awesome in their own ways, as can the villains. Hell, look at Ochako during the Sports Festival and how she gave Katsuki a run for his money. Or Momo when she and Shoto took down Mr. Aizawa together. Even Tsuyu worked well with Minoru and Mezo during the Relay game in the Sports Festival.



#86 hisaberpie

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 05:33 PM

 

While I STRONGLY disagree with this statement and I know any actual fan of the series does, I suppose the reasoning for that is the typical focus more heavily on the guys than the girls so the girls don't get to showcase as much on their abilities and prove to be able to stand evenly with the guys, even though they can. And Admittedly my point of contentions is even for all secondary characters that don't get much focus the girls are less emphasized in the action scenes. But let's not forget, Ochako took down Himiko and captured her, and Himiko is quite dangerous having nearly killed Rock Lock, so that aspect is just haters hating, because Achako is FAR from a useless crying damsel like other female characters :yes:  

 

I agree with you and i love uraraka but ive seen a lot of hate on her. Fans are just plain cruel and unforgiving sometimes. What i mean to say is that sakura gets so much hate because narutos fandom is toxic not because she was written to be disliked.



#87 Phantom_999

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 07:19 PM

Yeah exactly.


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#88 DrK

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 09:42 PM

Im joining this topic late but i don't think sakura was written to be disliked, fans on the internet are just cruel. The only reason sakura is disliked is because she gets in the way of peoples favorite pairings.

I actually have to draw a line at this. There are a ton of neutral fans that don't like Sakura. I know because I was one. Yes she would have been hated by pairing fans regardless of how Kishi wrote the story, but Kishi screwed up in writing the story to get other people to like her.

 

People don't like how she likes Sasuke but doesn't like Naruto despite the fact that Sasuke doesn't give a crap about her and Naruto is the main character. It's simple. And it's a super valid reason to not like her at the start. But then in Shippuden Sakura was on a path to liking Naruto and at some point along this path most or all of neutral fans would have stopped hating her. 

 

But Kishi was a total wimp and wanted to not even come close to resolving anything, as if SS was actually an option. So he wrote the horrendous confession scene, and people probably completely gave up on her at that point. If not then, then at the point of her ridiculous behavior in the war arc.

 

I will never be able to relate to people who were shocked and surprised at the ending because I wasn't. I was never able to trust Sakura because of the god-awful way Kishi handled things. And rather than disappoint a vocal minority he instead chose to make the "truth about Sakura according to people who hate her" into canon. It's really a miserable story.


Edited by DrK, 24 July 2018 - 09:43 PM.


#89 jak123

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 11:26 PM

I actually have to draw a line at this. There are a ton of neutral fans that don't like Sakura. I know because I was one. Yes she would have been hated by pairing fans regardless of how Kishi wrote the story, but Kishi screwed up in writing the story to get other people to like her.

 

People don't like how she likes Sasuke but doesn't like Naruto despite the fact that Sasuke doesn't give a crap about her and Naruto is the main character. It's simple. And it's a super valid reason to not like her at the start. But then in Shippuden Sakura was on a path to liking Naruto and at some point along this path most or all of neutral fans would have stopped hating her. 

 

But Kishi was a total wimp and wanted to not even come close to resolving anything, as if SS was actually an option. So he wrote the horrendous confession scene, and people probably completely gave up on her at that point. If not then, then at the point of her ridiculous behavior in the war arc.

 

I will never be able to relate to people who were shocked and surprised at the ending because I wasn't. I was never able to trust Sakura because of the god-awful way Kishi handled things. And rather than disappoint a vocal minority he instead chose to make the "truth about Sakura according to people who hate her" into canon. It's really a miserable story.

I think its more of the fact that the entire story was developing them. I doubt any of us would have cared if Kishimoto had properly developed SS and NH, but they didn't.



#90 DrK

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 02:17 AM

I think its more of the fact that the entire story was developing them. I doubt any of us would have cared if Kishimoto had properly developed SS and NH, but they didn't.

Well in part 1 it wasn't as clear and that was when people started to hate Sakura and they didn't stop because Kishi eventually made the problem even worse.



#91 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 06:00 AM

Well in part 1 it wasn't as clear and that was when people started to hate Sakura and they didn't stop because Kishi eventually made the problem even worse.

 

Which proves he was a crappy writer.



#92 jak123

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 09:12 PM

 

Which proves he was a crappy writer.

Actually I think that was the point. Before SP kittened it up, Part 1 was Sakura still being goo goo eyed over Sasuke, but slowly warming up to Naruto. Naruto would become obsessed with getting Sasuke back because he wanted to get Sakura to smile. In part 2 since Sasuke's gone, Naruto and Sakura would be come extremely close and she would realize her love for Naruto while getting over Sasuke. At least until 699 it seemed that way.



#93 Kasimir38

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 07:37 AM

Sometimes I think all that development in story and character progression was just a fortune and he didn't plan any of it. Sakura changing and starting to like Naruto was never his intention. Look, he made it very clear with Sakura's endless loyalty towards Sasuke. She didn't even change a bit.

 

What made her look full of flaws when she was little was her constant stalking of Sasuke, being a little brat and not really knowing him or understanding but that is "love" for you. She was mean to Naruto and their "annoying girl teammate". I think the only purpose she ever served in the story was being that girl that likes Sasuke, to begin with. It makes him appear cool and popular, but when Sasuke was going with Orochimaru, she suddenly was left without any motivation.

So she started to become friends with Naruto, since she needs to be more profound. and as Tsunade's apprentice, she became more strong. Story going on and voilá, she is not the girl that only likes Sasuke any more. She cares about her teammates, about Naruto,  and BAAM, whenever Sasuke appears, she transforms into her old self. Like: Oh, right, Sakura is Sasuke's fangirl, let's not forget that. Because otherwise, she would be a terrible woman. Development? What kind of development? I never planned to make her important, to begin with.

At the current state of the debate, I totally believe that Kishi planned SasuSaku to begin with. All that NaruSaku red herring was just something that happened without really planning it. Why else would Sakura always think about Sasuke, and never growing out of her fangirl phase?

 

I know this sound's very anti NaruSaku, but I am only trying to analyze Kishimoto's writing here.

Because even though I feel he didn't plan on changing Sakura's character and her relationship to Naruto but it kind of "happened", this happy little accident was his greatest achievement and was  brought down again by his prior intentions. If you write a story, you can decide for two way's to go: Plan out that story, from begin to end, picture the ending and make everythig move towards it - or don't plan the story at all, pick up and work with what you find, explore the characters during writing yourself.  Kishi decided to go for both ways - only that he already pictured an ending he conservatively held on. So...let's assume he really planned NaruHina to begin with, to understand why Hinata has only, like, 2 panels in part 2 would be: Meh, there is still plenty of time till the ending, and drawing Hinata is bothersome so....


Edited by Kasimir38, 28 July 2018 - 07:37 AM.

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#94 jak123

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 12:16 PM

Sometimes I think all that development in story and character progression was just a fortune and he didn't plan any of it. Sakura changing and starting to like Naruto was never his intention. Look, he made it very clear with Sakura's endless loyalty towards Sasuke. She didn't even change a bit.

 

What made her look full of flaws when she was little was her constant stalking of Sasuke, being a little brat and not really knowing him or understanding but that is "love" for you. She was mean to Naruto and their "annoying girl teammate". I think the only purpose she ever served in the story was being that girl that likes Sasuke, to begin with. It makes him appear cool and popular, but when Sasuke was going with Orochimaru, she suddenly was left without any motivation.

So she started to become friends with Naruto, since she needs to be more profound. and as Tsunade's apprentice, she became more strong. Story going on and voilá, she is not the girl that only likes Sasuke any more. She cares about her teammates, about Naruto,  and BAAM, whenever Sasuke appears, she transforms into her old self. Like: Oh, right, Sakura is Sasuke's fangirl, let's not forget that. Because otherwise, she would be a terrible woman. Development? What kind of development? I never planned to make her important, to begin with.

At the current state of the debate, I totally believe that Kishi planned SasuSaku to begin with. All that NaruSaku red herring was just something that happened without really planning it. Why else would Sakura always think about Sasuke, and never growing out of her fangirl phase?

 

I know this sound's very anti NaruSaku, but I am only trying to analyze Kishimoto's writing here.

Because even though I feel he didn't plan on changing Sakura's character and her relationship to Naruto but it kind of "happened", this happy little accident was his greatest achievement and was  brought down again by his prior intentions. If you write a story, you can decide for two way's to go: Plan out that story, from begin to end, picture the ending and make everythig move towards it - or don't plan the story at all, pick up and work with what you find, explore the characters during writing yourself.  Kishi decided to go for both ways - only that he already pictured an ending he conservatively held on. So...let's assume he really planned NaruHina to begin with, to understand why Hinata has only, like, 2 panels in part 2 would be: Meh, there is still plenty of time till the ending, and drawing Hinata is bothersome so....

Except why have all those moments then that clearly could be construed as Sakura developing romantic feelings for Naruto if it was never his intention? Why have everyone around them questioning their relationship? Why have Naruto's father compare Sakura to his mother? Why have her embrace Naruto after the Pein fight when it was Hinata who confessed her love not long before that? Doesn't make any sense.

 

If it was always SS, why NEVER show him care about her? Why show him try and kill her without remorse MULTIPLE times. Why have him stab her in the heart when there were a myriad of ways he could have incapacitated her so she wouldn't interfere with their fight?


Edited by jak123, 28 July 2018 - 12:19 PM.


#95 DrK

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 05:35 PM

In part 1 a lot of the scenes with Sakura either play out in a way that makes SS seem shallow and stupid, not to mention hopeless, or the context is Naruto feeling bad at having to witness her showing care for him. In the manga, anyway. In the anime it really does seem exactly like how Kasimir explains it.


Edited by DrK, 28 July 2018 - 05:36 PM.


#96 Phantom_999

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 08:21 PM



Sometimes I think all that development in story and character progression was just a fortune and he didn't plan any of it. Sakura changing and starting to like Naruto was never his intention. Look, he made it very clear with Sakura's endless loyalty towards Sasuke. She didn't even change a bit.

 

What made her look full of flaws when she was little was her constant stalking of Sasuke, being a little brat and not really knowing him or understanding but that is "love" for you. She was mean to Naruto and their "annoying girl teammate". I think the only purpose she ever served in the story was being that girl that likes Sasuke, to begin with. It makes him appear cool and popular, but when Sasuke was going with Orochimaru, she suddenly was left without any motivation.

So she started to become friends with Naruto, since she needs to be more profound. and as Tsunade's apprentice, she became more strong. Story going on and voilá, she is not the girl that only likes Sasuke any more. She cares about her teammates, about Naruto,  and BAAM, whenever Sasuke appears, she transforms into her old self. Like: Oh, right, Sakura is Sasuke's fangirl, let's not forget that. Because otherwise, she would be a terrible woman. Development? What kind of development? I never planned to make her important, to begin with.

At the current state of the debate, I totally believe that Kishi planned SasuSaku to begin with. All that NaruSaku red herring was just something that happened without really planning it. Why else would Sakura always think about Sasuke, and never growing out of her fangirl phase?

 

I know this sound's very anti NaruSaku, but I am only trying to analyze Kishimoto's writing here.

Because even though I feel he didn't plan on changing Sakura's character and her relationship to Naruto but it kind of "happened", this happy little accident was his greatest achievement and was  brought down again by his prior intentions. If you write a story, you can decide for two way's to go: Plan out that story, from begin to end, picture the ending and make everythig move towards it - or don't plan the story at all, pick up and work with what you find, explore the characters during writing yourself.  Kishi decided to go for both ways - only that he already pictured an ending he conservatively held on. So...let's assume he really planned NaruHina to begin with, to understand why Hinata has only, like, 2 panels in part 2 would be: Meh, there is still plenty of time till the ending, and drawing Hinata is bothersome so....

 

In my opinion, I feel that Sakura's character suffered from both lack of planning and no commitment to writing her because she is received so negatively.

 

First off, Sakura was made to be the love interest in a love triangle to fuel Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry in a sense. Where that WENT WRONG is that either Kishi or his editors (post Yahagi) thought that prolonging the love triangle for as long as possible to keep viewers "GUESSING" who she would pick in the end was a good idea, when it was clear as day in the writing who the obvious choice should be both development wise and also by just plain "common sense". Sasuke at this point was no longer an exotic, cool, mysterious "bad boy", he was a straight up megalomaniacal sociopath that was "drunk" with power and revenge and taking out his "issues" on other people and society in general. YET Sakura is still holding on to those crush like feelings that make a lot of readers and watchers (even those that don't ship in general might I add) think that she is either "not right in the head" or an "outright idiot". In contrast, her relationship to Naruto seems so happy and stable, not to mention emotionally open and healthy you wonder why there is even still a love triangle at this point, and why Sakura should feel conflicted by who would make her happy and love her for who she is, as in "actually appreciates her, and create a stable home environment with her." Ultimately Where I am going with this is that Sakura was meant to be the love interest and......... not much else when Yahagi did not take hold of the reins.

 

And then Kishi still doesn't get where he goes wrong with Sakura to the point he thought Sakura would be more popular if he made her "prettier". :facepalm:  :wallbash: He never once THOUGHT that maybe, just maybe Sakura was not so realistic or relate-able anymore? That maybe Sakura's feelings for Sasuke were starting to seem INCREDIBLY shallow and incomprehensible? That Sakura having trouble picking between a boy that always makes her happy and safe, lends an understanding ear when she is troubled or upset and shares his pain with her and vice versa against a boy who treats her as an annoyance at a best or an obstacle to be removed/ an insignificant factor that doesn't need to be saved at worst, and was only treated as part of a fond past memory in said boy's best moments is "BRAIN NUMBING levels of stupid"? He wanted Sakura to be liked but he DID NOT WANT HER TO CHANGE? :roll: Does that make sense to anyone? Anyone at all? And then he thought Sakura was a lost case and did not bother with her anymore than that, rather than actually change the negative writing he 's been incorporating with her. Give me a &*%#ing  break with that nonsense, honestly :superior:  

 

Just my two cents though


Edited by Phantom_999, 03 August 2018 - 08:32 PM.

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#97 DrK

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 08:55 PM

He critically failed to understand why that one young girl or whoever it was didn't like Sakura. It's more important that a character be relatable than that they be pretty.



#98 Yyubie

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 09:10 PM

In short story of @Phantom_999

Why the smartest medic in the world can't solve the riddle of her own heart ?.


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And even a violent woman will become soft and tender to the man she love.


#99 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 29 July 2018 - 05:59 PM

I don't remember if Kishimoto said it specifically. I believe he must have since she got super pissed at him over the ending and he tried to comfort her by saying she was like Hinata, but she didn't believe him. 
I do remember that even other people (I don't remember if it was Jump staff or who) but they said his wife looked like Sakura.

I'm not sure if someone answered this, but I believe it was Oda who said she was like Sakura

 

I would argue that one of the reasons she was hated was because she didn't do much fighting compared to the rest of the main cast, because lets face it Naruto at the heart is a shonen battle manga and most people watch/read them for great fights and Sakura got only three major ones (Sakura vs Team dosu, Sakura vs Ino and Sakura and Chiyo vs Sasori) out of 700 chapters (I guess you could count the time she beaten Pain's centipede, a white zetsu, 50-100 ten tailed clones and Kaguya as fight but they were so small or minor roles) she could be easily disliked by that aspect alone for doing so little.

Not sure how I would of solved this issue in part 1, but there are plenty of ways I think Kishimoto could of included her in the plot battle wise after the kazekage arc in part 2 is:

  1. In the new team 7 arc have her, Naruto and Yamato fight Kabuto before he frees Sai and gets betrayed by him and later have a proper battle between Team Yamato vs Sasuke
  2. In the Hidian and Kakuzu arc have all members of team Yamato take on Kakuzu when backing up team 10 and Kakashi
  3. In the Hunt for Itachi arc show an expanded fight between the 8 man squad against Tobi
  4. In the Pain arc have her fight one of the six paths of pain or Konan (heck you could even do it like storm two did or the 7th shippuden opening)
  5. Have her properly fight Sasuke if the team 7 reunion like in storm 3 
  6. In the war with the edo tensei ninja you could have her actually take part in the 7 swordsman of mist battle and kekkei genkai shinobi (heck you could do it like storm 3 and have her and Kakashi vs Zabuza and Haku and her, Lee and Gai against the other 6 swordsman) and maybe later back up the 5th division where she encounters Chiyo undead group
  7. She has a more major role in the battles against the ten tails, Obito, Madara and maybe even Kaguya 
  8. Have her support Naruto against Sasuke in the final fight as some examples.

I think this would also benefit not just her but story wise some of the other characters as well:

  1. The fight against kabuto would of showed Naruto and sakura working as a team in a proper fight against for the first time with a new member showing their growth that they now can fight on par with Kabuto and later with fighting Sasuke show how team yamato fights as a team and show how powerful sasuke has become while training under Orochimaru.
  2. The whole team yamato with team 10 and kakashi fighting against Kakuzu would help build the dymatics of team yamato from the last arc but also have sakura finally team up with her best friend/rival Ino and for Kakuzu would make him a more intimidating as a villain for it would show how powerful he was that it was needed 7 ninja working together to take him down
  3. The fight against Tobi would show what team kakashi is like working with team 8 and show us how powerful Tobi has secretly been this whole time.
  4.  Depending on how you do her fighting in the Pain arc, if you have her fight one of the sixth paths of Pain or Konan solo would show her growth as an individual or do it either like storm 2 with her, shikamaru and tsunade vs deva path or in the 7th opening with her, ino and Hinata fighting Konan you can have her 1 team up with shikamaru and her master for the first time and give tsunade her first fight since the sanin battle or with the other battle against konan you get all three of the rookie nine girls teaming up for the first time and konan will get a major fight before the one against Tobi
  5. If she properly fights sasuke it would probably prevent most of the backlash she got as being usely at this point.
  6. if she team up with Kakashi against Zabuza and Haku it would be their fit team with just those two and show her growth since the time she first encountered Zabuza and Haku, if she joins up with Gai and Lee against the other 7 swordsman you finally see sakura fight on par along side lee and team up for the first time, more screen time for Rock Lee and we get to see the swordsmen in action, if she fight Chiyo she can mention how much Sakura has grown since last time they met and remind her of her advice on saving someone.
  7. It would make these battles less Naruto and Sasuke centric and you could even have Obito and Madara compare her to rin, Tsunade and Mito
  8. this would for-fill the promise she kept with Naruto of bringing back sasuke together and help turn the tide in Naruto's favour.

Edited by BlueStarSaber, 29 July 2018 - 07:25 PM.


#100 Bail o' Lies

Bail o' Lies

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Posted 29 July 2018 - 08:16 PM

To be honest, when you look at most tsundere girls -or girls in general- in Shounen they rarely have to fight anyone. Even when they do, it's often no more then one or two times throughout the entire story. This has changed a bit in recent years, but Sakura when compared to her contemporaries she actually got into combat far more often then most.

 

The problem is most Shounen girls are not actually fighters, and their role is often to stay on the sidelines worrying about the main character. However, Sakura is train to fight, and with the early lecture about teamwork people were expecting her to fight alongside her teammates.

 

Also the changing times; if Naruto mostly happened in the 90's Sakura would have been fine, however 2000 onward media (not just talking about the US) really started pushing the whole women can be just as capable as men in combat. So, the expectations were different -both in story and culturally- and Sakura failed to meet them.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 30 July 2018 - 08:22 AM.





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