BlackBird19

Wow maybe you should send these to shounen Jump within the month you could be the mangaka of Boruto.

Haha, thanks. I wish I were fast enough to be a mangaka, though.

Of course this a cash grab. It's why we've always stated that the direction the franchise took was a business decision.

Now, please forgive me for this @Tricksie. I must say that I'm not surprised by Analyzer's responses to my last posts, but I now have a genuine dislike for this person. I've been nothing but cordial and respectful of her opinions and even went out of my way to make sure I addressed her by her correct gender. I'm a 39 year old man, by the way, with a healthy amount of life experience.

So, it was so nice to take quick peek at my favorite forum when I got to work tonight after a long day in the hospital with my mother, to find I've been thoroughly insulted by someone who doesn't personally know me simply because I have a differing opinion from hers.

Apparently, according to her, I post haphazardly and offer nothing but conjecture. That I don't have informed opinions, just wild ideas and conspiracies. 

Apparently, I also did not excel at reading and writing during all my years of schooling so my interpretation of the entirety of the manga must be wholly wrong.

However, what has truly put me out is that according to her I am a liar. Since I didn't source something for her in a timely manner, then I must be lying. That is an insult I do not overlook. 

You know Analyzer I never personally doubted who you say you are or the credentials you've given. I never stated you were absolutely wrong in our debates. But for you to think that everyone who has ever been in the industries you initially were in, have shared the same types of experiences you had, and all over the world mind you. Just goes to show how close minded and limited your thinking truly is. It is narcissistic, naïve and to be honest just plain ignorant. 

If you feel insulted, I don't care. You certainly didn't spare my feelings. This will be the last time I'll acknowledge you, let alone respond to you. Have a nice life. 

To the mods, I'll completely accept any form punishment you deem worthy for this post. I also apologize for once again taking us off topic. Goodnight.

 

I've worked -in- the writing industry. As an aside, I currently work in the investment industry. I have a sister that works -in- the film industry. I don't know what your experience is, but I know what mine is. T.V. show makers -do- not have the level of say claimed at all in how a manga is written, or a book series, or a game series if its based on that. If anything, when you make something based off a series, you consult with the author to get it right. You don't ask the author to write something the way you want it, you are trying to emulate the author. You study his characters, the background, how he draws if you are animating, etc. If -anything-, it would be credible to say that Kishimoto would have pull in the anime. This is provably true with the Boruto anime, as he particularly gave advice into the first Arc. 

 

 

 

Same as above, really. It's far, far, far more credible, and believable to state that Kishimoto has pull on how his series is done, than the inverse.  

 

Plus you need to answer why. Why would they do it? How in the world it is profitable to end it as they did when spans and spans of manga have done so differently and end just as well? Where is your evidence of this information? It is only unprovable speculation, at most, and conspiracy creating at best. What stops them from making the film non-canon like all of their others, and why is it just this one? All of their other successful material has demonstrated displayed canon events (Games), or just told an unconnected story. 

 

I don't buy into this theory simply because it relies purely on speculation. It is -good- to doubt and question, but I strongly believe this angle of speculation is the wrong path, because you must call your author a liar to do so, and must paint the business bad for... ultimately, picking a pairing over another, which is kind of petty. It is an application of Occam's Razor, frankly, in believing the author over a conspiracy, simply because the former takes far less assumptions. 

 

The truth is that Kishimoto chose this ending, and that is sourced, and I see no reason to doubt that. Love Kishimoto for what he did well, and criticize what he did not. That's the respect I would want. 

First off, this is just a piece of advice, take it or leave it. You really should avoid absolutes. Just because you have some experiences in the industry does not mean that's the way it is across the board. You can only speak of your experiences, not necessarily for anyone else's. Countless stories and reports about the writing and T.V. industry have shown many people have had very different experiences from your own. Experiences that include the changing of stories to suit whoever is footing the bill.

As for the possible reason why. Many of us have given you several already. However, this is the biggest one. They viewed it as more profitable for the main characters of the continuation to be the children of a NH pairing and a SS pairing. That's it. No big conspiracy, just a simple business decision.    

Now to the last, my answer has been a simple one all along. I do not blindly believe what I'm told when my eyes and basic reading comprehension tell me different. If you have such faith in Kishimoto just because he says so, that's fine. I cannot nor will I ever tell you how to think or believe. I can only give you my viewpoint and the logical reasons that helped me form it. 

 

Movies can actually be green lit, particularly successful franchises, and particularly if the prior movie is successful, without a script, and have. Considering that RtN and 615 came out the same year, and that we have no idea when the script was actually complete, I don't buy into the fact that the Anime Company influenced the manga ending. Further, the Anime company -only- knew that NH would have children, and none of the other pairings. It strongly gives to the credibility that the anime company didn't really push things. This is also what I mean by conspiracy theory, I.E., a theory that this big company, and the Editing Company, and ridiculously, sometimes a fanbase did things, pushed for things, ruining what was intended. The original script idea wasn't even about a romance, that came after Kishimoto insisted the story be focused on Naruto, according to the Last interviews. 

 

My question mark use here, FYI, is used as skepticism, here, further laying out that Kaguya's family was mentioned as well. 

 

Later material that builds on the Kaguya element works for more than just Kaguya trying to connect things roughly, I would strongly argue it's the inverse. Firstly, because you don't need a member of her clan as the villain, more so it was highlighted that because it was a member of the clan, it connected to the manga better. We could have picked a different clan altogether. Secondly, it helps give this very recent, remembered villain fresh in people's heads more detail that is missing, allowing expansion of a detail recently immersed in.

 

About the next paragraph, by the definition of facts, Kishimoto said they were intended, and as such, by his words alone that is fact. This does not make a second reading any more unbiased than a first. I read to understand what I missed, and the manga filled that in satisfactorily. There is no bias in this, this is reading to understand. -if- it was not there, how could I understand? There is no more bias involved in my own re-reading than would be your own re-reading, compared to our first reading. If anything, my first reading would be more biased, as I was really not paying attention much to the other pairings, nor, perhaps were some of us seriously, which perhaps was the blindfold over our eyes.

 

Further, some of these interviews are T.V. interviews. Some were done in the States. I don't buy a company outlook conspiracy theory. Frankly, there's zero harm in saying you changed your mind about a pairing half-way through because it didn't work, or that NH seemed the way to better please fans, or that his staff really wanted it, or his wife, or whatever. It doesn't hurt the company at all. Authors tend to be -more- honest and -more- open after their work is finished, because they have no more fear of spoiling anything. Writing also doesn't really work like: "End your story like this and get paid", and I'm sourcing this from experience from the publishing world. Editors suggest things, but there's never anything like that. Even if suggested to get rid of something, an insistent writer can keep it in. New writers tend to listen to their editors a lot more, because they want to keep getting published, but there is never a "End this" in your contract. 

 

Finally, nothing stops the series from continuing regardless of the children. We could have continued on from the Last, dealing with Naruto's adult days. We could have continued on from Naruto's Hokage days, with no children around. Nothing -stops- the franchise from continuing, kids are not a precursor to necessitate continuation. Within the work itself, they are an embellishment of a happy ending, as well as the passing of things from one generation to the next. 

 

 

 

I also think the "True End" chapter's title is being taken way too literally, but I digress. 

 

I don't buy that contract really gave anything if he ended it -specifically- this way. Then you have to question why he is lying about it (There's no reason to do this), why it is a good business decision, and why in the world they could not fit the script to accommodate what he wanted, and so many other holes to fill in, ala, you are making a conspiracy theory.  I personally believe it is far, far, easier to understand that the development to what became of 700 is in the manga, and it's more than just the last hundred chapters. Some started in the first hundred, in the roots. Whether or not the quality is good is completely up for debate. But it's there, objectively there, even. I think you just have to take the time to be open to seeing other possibilities. 

 

As for ending at the Pain Arc, if NS was the plan, and Sasuke did not exist, or was dead, or whatever, sure, you could end it just like that, to be honest. It does in and of itself work as a happy ending even. But there are still some unaddressed things introduced within the arc and before, so it could not just end there.

I'd be more inclined to think like you if the story was a novel. Written and completed and then licensed becoming a franchise later on. That's not the case here because an anime series like Naruto is created to draw more attention toward the manga. Therefore, anime can hold quite a bit of influence over a manga. 

Now I have never been one to state that SP should be the sole focus of the decision, because they are just an anime company. However TV Tokyo, who is highly invested in Naruto and fronts a great deal of the money for all the animations to be produced, does hold that kind of sway. I know this because TV Tokyo listed Naruto as it's top earner last year on the anime side of it's holdings. Even though Naruto anime sales were outdone by two of it's other anime series. What garnered Naruto so much money was it's video game and Chinese mobile app game. Profits which were posted to TV Tokyo and not just Shueisha, SP or Kishimoto.

You would have to be extremely naïve to believe a major national television and media company, who is thoroughly invested in a franchise does not have some serious pull in the way their investment is handled. Especially considering Kishimoto's television interviews were produced and/or aired on TV Tokyo. 

Kishimoto did not write the last. But he did superivse and edit the script, so much so that he makes a comment that he was worried he was frustrating the writers. He wanted them to get it right.

 

The Last was released a month after the last chapter, yes. 

 

Chapter 572 does not all in all imply that Naruto is the reincarnation of the Sage of Six Paths necessarily. Equal case simply is that this is the person that would unite them on that day as the old man spoke of would come. But going with this, that he is the son isn't even a significant change, as it points to a connection that he is a descendant and thus shares similar traits, to which the former thoughts of the Jinchuuriki make more sense, as they share relation.

 

Kaguya did suffer from poor foreshadowing. While there is no source to support this theorymaking, we could speculate that she was a device meant to help bridge things, but what occurs really is that later material works to help develop and explain Kaguya more into things. In other words, she functions fine within the material, bar the poor foreshadowing. Her family though? The Sage himself is mentioned in 572. It's merely Kaguya herself that lacks the foreshadowing, and even then her Byakugan is not super played up, nor is Hamura really explored that much. 

 

It's quite common for hero stories to end as they do, by the way, a sort of pass on to the next generation. It passes the baton onto Boruto here, but whether or not this is explored is up to the author. Kishimoto does explore this a little, but he had no intention of really writing a sequel. See Bleach. See also Harry Potter. Bleach has no continuation I am aware of, and Harry Potter only years later did any sort of substantiation with its characters. These endings -allow- further exploration, should the desire be there, but this happy ending is not at all an uncommon frame for an end to this sort of hero's journey. To go further, of course we were going to conclude with a scene that Naruto ended up being Hokage. Considering the evidence at hand, it makes perfect sense that Shikamaru is his advisor, as that aspect was played up at the end, that his son is named after Neji, Hinata is his wife, etc. 

 

But moving away from speculation, we have Kishimoto saying he planned the Sasuke vs. Naruto fight, and planned the end game pairings. That we can trace development for them makes sense. I'm not sure why holding hands doesn't count as on panel affection, but considering Kishimoto's conservativeness, we can more than understand the lack of it, or at least what you are calling "on panel affection". Are we also ignoring 699? But considering no other pairing really had any development pointing to 700 in the 600s, or "on panel affection", I'm not sure where we are getting at. 

 

As for the two women part? Perhaps instead of making a shipping connection, as implied, we make a "These are both medics and if they declare them dead, they're dead". connection. Plus considering 615 and some of the stuff you mentioned happens -before- this, does this not hurt your case? If we are championing this chapter as "on plan", what about the stuff prior? Plus right after is the Sage of Six Path's revelation, so your argument weakens substantially after your 572 jump away. 

 

This is not to say 100% of the ending is as he imagined it from the start, we can only source the pairings and the Naruto/Sasuke fight as completely intended. 

 

To conclude, you -are- theorizing, and in points of the above where stated, so am I. The only things that are not a theory are that the Naruto/Sasuke fight was intended and so were the canon pairings, as they can be sourced. We can source that Kishimoto had more say over the Last than prior material, he red inked the script several times. It is by definition a conspiracy theory to point against sources, even with your "logical evidence". But your evidence only has a basis, a slight jump from a vague uncompleted thought to something confirmed later, which is not all that much of a difference, as I illustrated. I don't really buy into theories that state otherwise, simply because you have to point to a moment, and then twist and call things out as a lie, and then you start unveiling "corporation" meddling, and the like, and need so many variables to be true, that cannot be proved or can be disproved. This makes your foundation shaky. 

First off, no movie is greenlit without having an initial script of ideas already been written. That's a fact. Edits and rewrites can always be done during preproduction, well after that first draft of the script. Again, a script that Kishimoto did not write.

To be honest, I don't think you truly grasped what I was saying in my post all that well considering you went off in directions I hadn't even touched upon. Plus I had already stated that the decision was made by no later than mid 2013. Thus prompting 615 and all instances afterward, including giving a parting shot to NS. Also, it can be confusing at times reading your replies because you post question marks at very odd points. It's hard to tell whether you're actually asking a question. 

No matter, on to Kaguya and the Otsutsuki clan. I pointed them out because they had merely been utilized as storyboard to tell the history of the shinobi. They were never foreshadowed as playing an actual role in the current timeline. That just seemed to appear out of nowhere and again, needed to be explained outside of the original manga. Which is why logic dictates to me that something prompted them to make that change. 

Now I realize that because the end pairings match with your opinions you feel you are never in the wrong. But the writing does not support you to the level you believe it to. Case in point, you claim to have felt the same as us in terms of NS before going back to reread the manga to make better sense of the ending. You should know, your first read through will always be the one least biased and least subjective. Meaning, if you didn't see it before the end, then your knowing of the end game has warped your perspective and you're merely inferring that the canon pairings were always intended. You really don't know that for a fact.

Naruto vs Sasuke however, was something that was never in doubt because the writing actually supports the notion that it was supposed to happen. It's one of the few things the entire fandom truly agrees on.

Lastly, you need to understand that all those sources you lean on so heavily all come from one place. The publisher of Naruto, Shonen Jump and it's parent company Shueisha. Just about every piece of info we've ever received about Naruto has actually come from the publisher itself. All those interviews and anecdotes about the franchise were always published by the actual franchise's publisher. So forgive me if I find them to be less than 100% credible. You know, because of the whole conflict of interest thing.

And just to add on. InoxSai, ChojixKarui and all the children being the same age, is all the evidence I needed to know that this ending was done solely to continue the franchise.