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#42241 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 07:43 PM

when hashbrowns killed madara, that is when i believe he became truly stern. i didn't like how happy go lucky HAHAH he was, how sensitive he was like some big teddy bear underneath, pretty exaggerated and quite pathetic when he bowed and cried during the five kage meeting. 

 

as for tob's, when you think about it, labeling him as the one who invented edo tensei was a very stupid move. as was the FTG, it just screamed unoriginality. Kish knew he wouldn't be able to do much with just water so he later gave him space/time jutsu.

 

hiruzen.....*sigh* they took a dump on him.

 

minato, some people call him a marty stu but, he still died and isn't in the story much. i didn't like how he's given sage mode though.

In terms of Hashirama, it was most likely just to force a way to make him and Naruto seem more alike because of the whole out-of-nowhere "Naruto is related to every major powerful Konoha Senju-related figure in history". Heck, wasn't it said at first, in way earlier data books or something that HE was usually the more stern one and it was Tobirama who was the more laid back one? I forget.

In terms of Tobirama, especially when you consider they said someone like Kisame had the strongest Suiton abilities seen since Tobirama, so that already almost negates Tobirama's own prodigious legend of being a Suiton master. I mean, they could have at least had him doing really out-of-this-world styles and moves using water but...nope! Even Edo Tensei I didn't have too much of a problem with. After all, being so pragmatic as he was, Tobirama wouldn't have qualms about violating the realm of the dead if it meant strengthening and protecting Konoha. My main problem was more with Madara just magically knowing how to break it so his Edo self wouldn't disappear when it Kabuto's use was broken without any explanation for how he knew - not even a brief page showing/explaining even as little as something like how he just happened across Tobirama when he was perfecting the technique and Madara copied it with his Sharingan without Tobirama knowing or something like that.

But suddenly hearing about him inventing space-time jutsu and yet never demonstrates anything of the sort during the war...yeah...

In terms of Hiruzen...yeah...sadly, the only time we get to see a small show of why he was called the "God of Shinobi" was the Chunin Exams and how, were it not for the properties of Edo Tensei, he would have killed both Hashirama and Tobirama (simultaneously) several times, and that is when he is a tired old man while those two, as is done with Edo Tensei, were in their prime and, due to the seals Orochimaru used, not holding back against Hiruzen. He could have done a lot more during the war, but instead, he was just dumbed down to, as usual, allow Naruto and Sasuke to look soooooo much stronger and "surpassing the previous generation" and all that.

I mostly had a problem with Minato magically being friends with Kurama's other half and even having his own Kurama cloak. The Shiki Fuin is supposed to have locked them both in the Shinigami's stomach where they would fight for all eternity, so when the heck could they have ever had time to chat and become friends like that? Again, feels like something just to force more similarities with Naruto. And then you have the Rasengan suddenly being directly based on the Biju Dama, but how would Minato ever know what the Biju Dama was/looked like/how it worked at the time he invented the Rasengan? As far as we know, he never faced a Biju before Kurama (and Kurama was sealed and locked deep away in Kushina, so he couldn't just ask, not that Kurama would have shown him anyway), so it's not like it was ever demonstrated, and it can't be because of magically becoming friends with Kurama's other half because, obviously, that was long after Minato had invented it.
 

 

Wasn't that one of the things the Jedi warned in Star Wars about Personal Feelings yes you can have personal feelings for someone but there's a line that has to be drawn. Also Hiruzen was one of the one responsible for all the people Orochimaru killed and was one of the reason Sasuke turned to Orochimaru.  

Yeah, the prequel movies, in their tendency to not explain things well, made it seem like Jedi were never allowed to love or have much of what makes a person a person (like no fear, anger, etc. whatsoever). It usually required special permission for a Jedi to be married, IIRC (because the attachment could increase the fear of loss and making a Jedi more vulnerable to being seduced by the Dark Side) and it's always been about being in control of your emotions and not letting them control you (which is what Anakin ended up doing much of the time). This was brought up in Episode V, when Luke and Vader began their fight and Vader commenting on Luke being taught well and that he had learned to control his fear.
 

 

I wished there were consequences in Naruto but there aren't you know at least Fairy Tail gave consequences to those who had them coming like Jellal one of my favorite characters. Actually Ay is one of my favorite Kages cause he actually was going to do something about Sasuke sure it took longer then it should have, also Ay refusal to not kill Sasuke made me like cause Naruto's TNJ didn't work or cause Ay knows the lives of everyone in the world are more important than one rouge traitor that Naruto and the leaf village go. Also Naruto said that he didn't want a war between leaf and cloud if Sasuke were killed but a don't see how Sasuke dying would star a war if anything it wouldn't since no one cares about a rouge ninja or it's just another moment of Naruto being a dumbass aside from being the most irresponsible manga hero ever.

Any war that would be declared by Konoha would be completely stupid because, as you said, Sasuke was already a missing-nin. The only thing that, in Naruto and others' minds, didn't make him one was merely the fact that Tsunade never labeled him in the Bingo Book (all because of her own attachment to Naruto and Sakura). Ay was basically "if you're not going to do it, then I will" and he would be completely justified because of Sasuke's attack on Bee (which would be both personal and political), so if Konoha declared war on Kumo because of Ay doing what Konoha suddenly lacked the stomach to do, then Konoha would most definitely be the enemy in that case. Even Shikamaru was an idiot there in making the "war" completely personal with the whole "if you kill Sasuke, then we'll want revenge and kill you, and then your people would want revenge and kill us" and all that.


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#42242 Nostradamus

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 07:52 PM

Merry Christmas to all of you and I wish that all your wishes will come true.

If you weren't naughty that is. :chuckle:


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Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#42243 Catra

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 09:02 PM

probably because the minato's half was the nice one and naruto got the mean one? yin yang and all that...


Edited by Catra, 24 December 2015 - 09:02 PM.


#42244 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 09:57 PM

Any war that would be declared by Konoha would be completely stupid because, as you said, Sasuke was already a missing-nin. The only thing that, in Naruto and others' minds, didn't make him one was merely the fact that Tsunade never labeled him in the Bingo Book (all because of her own attachment to Naruto and Sakura). Ay was basically "if you're not going to do it, then I will" and he would be completely justified because of Sasuke's attack on Bee (which would be both personal and political), so if Konoha declared war on Kumo because of Ay doing what Konoha suddenly lacked the stomach to do, then Konoha would most definitely be the enemy in that case. Even Shikamaru was an idiot there in making the "war" completely personal with the whole "if you kill Sasuke, then we'll want revenge and kill you, and then your people would want revenge and kill us" and all that.

I agree its why Naruto fails big time in my eyes and like you said all of Konoha would all just go to war to get revenge because Sasuke a missing-nin and a traitor, again as you said Konoha would be the enemy. I mean this show that nfor what ever reason they can't seem to just let Sasuke die plus with all Sasuke has done Ay would have both the other nations helping out as well and all three would attack Konoha for letting a traitor like Sasuke just run around doing what he wants which I find stupid (Konoha that is.)

 

I mean I remember this line from a game I played. "One must die and one must live, no victory no defeat. Your a soldier prove your loyalty." Aka the Boss Metal gear soild 3. and it was true it was either Konoha or Sasuke and Naruto and everyone in there put Sasuke first for what some emo kitten who lost his family but had friends to help him and yet he still back stabbed everyone.

 

I just hate how Kishi puts Sasuke in the damn light, and you know something it gets worse with fans who defend Naruto wanting to save Sasuke, when he should be dead,



#42245 rocci

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 10:43 PM

Ok then if you're ever in that situation in a courtroom. Try to use that as your defense and see what happens.
 
Also key word "living". I know you still want to believe that Naruto never killed. But he does have kills under his belt.
It's not intentional. But a kill is a kill.

I will not judge as the killer, but I will judge as acomplishment and your friend is. If your friend let him die, then I'm the one who killed him.

It's one of debatable topic, but if kishi doesn't make naruto kill kakuzu, then he will never make him kill anyone.

#42246 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 11:39 PM

I agree its why Naruto fails big time in my eyes and like you said all of Konoha would all just go to war to get revenge because Sasuke a missing-nin and a traitor, again as you said Konoha would be the enemy. I mean this show that nfor what ever reason they can't seem to just let Sasuke die plus with all Sasuke has done Ay would have both the other nations helping out as well and all three would attack Konoha for letting a traitor like Sasuke just run around doing what he wants which I find stupid (Konoha that is.)

 

I mean I remember this line from a game I played. "One must die and one must live, no victory no defeat. Your a soldier prove your loyalty." Aka the Boss Metal gear soild 3. and it was true it was either Konoha or Sasuke and Naruto and everyone in there put Sasuke first for what some emo kitten who lost his family but had friends to help him and yet he still back stabbed everyone.

 

I just hate how Kishi puts Sasuke in the damn light, and you know something it gets worse with fans who defend Naruto wanting to save Sasuke, when he should be dead,

I don't really have a problem with Naruto wanting to save Sasuke in general, but more the fact that he is just so narrow-minded in that view to where he's willing to risk anything and everything if he thinks there's even the tiniest of chances that it could be done (which is pretty much always), no matter how much others, or even Sasuke himself, tell/show otherwise.

After the Pain Arc, it got to where I, unfortunately, even came to think that even if Sasuke had murdered Sakura right in front of Naruto (like if he had even succeeded in doing so when Sakura made the failed attempt to kill him), Naruto would be pissed, yes, but he'd still be willing to forgive him and try to "save" him. To him and others, Sasuke was more important than pretty much anything else, just like Naruto is to Hinata. There is just no negotiating that by mid to late part two, no matter what Sasuke himself did to anyone. The others would always try to find someone/something else to blame for "making" him do it while never holding him responsible for the choices he himself made; first it was Itachi, then it was Orochimaru, then it was Obito/"Madara", but never Sasuke himself.


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#42247 rocci

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 11:45 PM

@halfdemon
I agree, the obsessiveness is off the chart, something that hurt naruto character.
I understand why kishi do that, but it only make naruto look pathetic and gay.
And that make sasuke look more hero than naruto. This's one of the problem in part 2.

#42248 SlyNinjaKnight

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 04:20 AM

 

Yeah, the prequel movies, in their tendency to not explain things well, made it seem like Jedi were never allowed to love or have much of what makes a person a person (like no fear, anger, etc. whatsoever). It usually required special permission for a Jedi to be married, IIRC (because the attachment could increase the fear of loss and making a Jedi more vulnerable to being seduced by the Dark Side) and it's always been about being in control of your emotions and not letting them control you (which is what Anakin ended up doing much of the time). This was brought up in Episode V, when Luke and Vader began their fight and Vader commenting on Luke being taught well and that he had learned to control his fear.
 

 

I believe there is a second Jedi Code, one that is commonly called the "Old Jedi Code" and it was looser than the constricting Jedi Code that we see in the prequel trilogy. It is thought that the restrictions of the Jedi Code were a contributing factor to Anakin's fall to the Dark Side and the ease in which that the Sith were able to hide things from the Jedi. I've heard people believe that the Jedi Code makes people into zombies or robots, cutting themselves off from being 'human' by having no emotion, etc.



#42249 catsi563

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 09:05 AM

never have liked that comparison as its patently false.

 

the jedi arent vulcans or robots and the code doesnt force such on them.

 

theyd be more closely analgous to Grammaton clerics from the movie Equilibrium but without the drugs. quai chang kanes shaolin monk is another good example of the jedi.

 

peaceful but capable of fighting, serene and balanced avoiding extremes of emotion. accepting of all people and cultures but having a philosophy to serve and protect.

 

Jedi try to avoid extremes because the extremes of both joy and sadness happiness and anger are where the darkside lay.

 

the best way to descvribe the jedis detachment is big picture thinking without missing the small things.

 

A jedi doesn't see a village suffering and act indifferent to it, he feels compassion for them, but he doesn't get so lost int he compassion that he automatically rushes headlong into whatever danger theyre facing without careful consideration of the facts.

 

the Sith were able to hide from them because they hid in plain sight basically, using the corruption of the senate to their advantage and the naturally dark nature of war.

 

Anakins own arrogance was the main factor but also somewhat the Jedis chosen one label and the expectation thrust upon him were too much. Anakins failure to understand Yodas cautions about loss, combined with Palpatines poisoned tongue whispering in his ears just lead him willingly by the nose right to the darkside.

 

Anakin fell because he couldn't find that center of calm that eye of the hurricane of emotions that jedi have to find. He always rode the storm of his emotions leading him to great heroic feats but always with that hint of darkness that lead him into trouble.


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#42250 Yyubie

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 12:06 PM

Naruto topic sure is dying .....


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#42251 RedFaction

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 12:26 PM

Naruto topic sure is dying .....

Just wait until the Boruto manga comes out. I'm sure we'll have more to complain about then, because even when you think the Naruto series has hit rock bottom they somehow find a way to make it even worse.


Edited by RedFaction, 25 December 2015 - 12:27 PM.

 


#42252 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 25 December 2015 - 02:58 PM

In terms of Hashirama, it was most likely just to force a way to make him and Naruto seem more alike because of the whole out-of-nowhere "Naruto is related to every major powerful Konoha Senju-related figure in history". Heck, wasn't it said at first, in way earlier data books or something that HE was usually the more stern one and it was Tobirama who was the more laid back one? I forget.

In terms of Tobirama, especially when you consider they said someone like Kisame had the strongest Suiton abilities seen since Tobirama, so that already almost negates Tobirama's own prodigious legend of being a Suiton master. I mean, they could have at least had him doing really out-of-this-world styles and moves using water but...nope! Even Edo Tensei I didn't have too much of a problem with. After all, being so pragmatic as he was, Tobirama wouldn't have qualms about violating the realm of the dead if it meant strengthening and protecting Konoha. My main problem was more with Madara just magically knowing how to break it so his Edo self wouldn't disappear when it Kabuto's use was broken without any explanation for how he knew - not even a brief page showing/explaining even as little as something like how he just happened across Tobirama when he was perfecting the technique and Madara copied it with his Sharingan without Tobirama knowing or something like that.

But suddenly hearing about him inventing space-time jutsu and yet never demonstrates anything of the sort during the war...yeah...

In terms of Hiruzen...yeah...sadly, the only time we get to see a small show of why he was called the "God of Shinobi" was the Chunin Exams and how, were it not for the properties of Edo Tensei, he would have killed both Hashirama and Tobirama (simultaneously) several times, and that is when he is a tired old man while those two, as is done with Edo Tensei, were in their prime and, due to the seals Orochimaru used, not holding back against Hiruzen. He could have done a lot more during the war, but instead, he was just dumbed down to, as usual, allow Naruto and Sasuke to look soooooo much stronger and "surpassing the previous generation" and all that.

I mostly had a problem with Minato magically being friends with Kurama's other half and even having his own Kurama cloak. The Shiki Fuin is supposed to have locked them both in the Shinigami's stomach where they would fight for all eternity, so when the heck could they have ever had time to chat and become friends like that? Again, feels like something just to force more similarities with Naruto. And then you have the Rasengan suddenly being directly based on the Biju Dama, but how would Minato ever know what the Biju Dama was/looked like/how it worked at the time he invented the Rasengan? As far as we know, he never faced a Biju before Kurama (and Kurama was sealed and locked deep away in Kushina, so he couldn't just ask, not that Kurama would have shown him anyway), so it's not like it was ever demonstrated, and it can't be because of magically becoming friends with Kurama's other half because, obviously, that was long after Minato had invented it.
 

 

Yeah, the prequel movies, in their tendency to not explain things well, made it seem like Jedi were never allowed to love or have much of what makes a person a person (like no fear, anger, etc. whatsoever). It usually required special permission for a Jedi to be married, IIRC (because the attachment could increase the fear of loss and making a Jedi more vulnerable to being seduced by the Dark Side) and it's always been about being in control of your emotions and not letting them control you (which is what Anakin ended up doing much of the time). This was brought up in Episode V, when Luke and Vader began their fight and Vader commenting on Luke being taught well and that he had learned to control his fear.
 

 

Any war that would be declared by Konoha would be completely stupid because, as you said, Sasuke was already a missing-nin. The only thing that, in Naruto and others' minds, didn't make him one was merely the fact that Tsunade never labeled him in the Bingo Book (all because of her own attachment to Naruto and Sakura). Ay was basically "if you're not going to do it, then I will" and he would be completely justified because of Sasuke's attack on Bee (which would be both personal and political), so if Konoha declared war on Kumo because of Ay doing what Konoha suddenly lacked the stomach to do, then Konoha would most definitely be the enemy in that case. Even Shikamaru was an idiot there in making the "war" completely personal with the whole "if you kill Sasuke, then we'll want revenge and kill you, and then your people would want revenge and kill us" and all that.

So if Nick Fury (The Samuel L. Jackson one) and S.H.E.I.L.D decide to deal with Sasuke would Naruto still try to stop them even with the Avengers on S.H.E.I.L.D sides. Cause at least they know what's important the world and everyone in it over one traitor, and don't that's what going on with Bucky, but here's the thing Bucky has an excuse he was brainwashed against his will, while Sasuke knew full well what he was doing. Ya that part about Tsunade not putting him in the bingo book was part of character that I didn't like ya I get she didn't want to cause she cares about Naruto and Sakura but as Hokage she should have. You know it's saying something when Organization XIII form Kingdom Hearts helds traitors better than Naruto deals with them. Almost Shikamaru maybe the smartest character in the series but that line about Sasuke was just stupid and what if Sasuke sold out info on the Leaf Village to other village would they still tried to save him then.  



#42253 catsi563

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 02:16 AM

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#42254 starlitestarbrite

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 02:50 AM

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#42255 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 04:10 AM


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#42256 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 04:33 AM

So if Nick Fury (The Samuel L. Jackson one) and S.H.E.I.L.D decide to deal with Sasuke would Naruto still try to stop them even with the Avengers on S.H.E.I.L.D sides. Cause at least they know what's important the world and everyone in it over one traitor, and don't that's what going on with Bucky, but here's the thing Bucky has an excuse he was brainwashed against his will, while Sasuke knew full well what he was doing. Ya that part about Tsunade not putting him in the bingo book was part of character that I didn't like ya I get she didn't want to cause she cares about Naruto and Sakura but as Hokage she should have. You know it's saying something when Organization XIII form Kingdom Hearts helds traitors better than Naruto deals with them. Almost Shikamaru maybe the smartest character in the series but that line about Sasuke was just stupid and what if Sasuke sold out info on the Leaf Village to other village would they still tried to save him then.  

Yeah, I've already seen some idiots trying to use Captain America: Civil War's story as an excuse for Sasuke while completely ignoring the other circumstances in the MCU.

Not only was Bucky actually brainwashed (many times over too, over the decades since he was found in WWII), thus had no choice or control of his actions, unlike Sasuke, but there's also the fact that Steve already had a very bad experience (also in The Winter Soldier) with a corrupt government with S.H.I.E.L.D. being deeply infiltrated by HYDRA all the way up to its very leadership and that would shake even Steve's loyalty, and I highly doubt all of the infiltrators were exposed, much less captured, so in Steve's mind, it's just too big a risk to anchor the Avengers to a single government entity, especially one that has recently been shown to have been deeply infiltrated the way it was right under most peoples' noses.


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#42257 Nostradamus

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 04:52 PM

I will not judge as the killer, but I will judge as acomplishment and your friend is. If your friend let him die, then I'm the one who killed him.

It's one of debatable topic, but if kishi doesn't make naruto kill kakuzu, then he will never make him kill anyone.

Sorry mate but you're wrong.


Edited by Nostradamus, 26 December 2015 - 04:53 PM.

                         CZSn9hA.jpg
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.


#42258 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 06:17 PM

Well, technically one could say Naruto killed Kakuzu two times...Kakuzu was only alive because of the Jiongu that allowed him to have multiple hearts, one of which was already destroyed, and the Rasenshuriken destroyed two, and then Kakashi finished him off.


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#42259 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 06:37 PM

Well, technically one could say Naruto killed Kakuzu two times...Kakuzu was only alive because of the Jiongu that allowed him to have multiple hearts, one of which was already destroyed, and the Rasenshuriken destroyed two, and then Kakashi finished him off.

 

Yeah, pretty much, and he came close to killing Kabuto when he first used the Rasengan on him, eve if Kabuto was able to heal himself.



#42260 rocci

rocci

    Heaven and Earth Deity

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 12:29 AM

Well, technically one could say Naruto killed Kakuzu two times...Kakuzu was only alive because of the Jiongu that allowed him to have multiple hearts, one of which was already destroyed, and the Rasenshuriken destroyed two, and then Kakashi finished him off.

No, naruto kill/destroy kakuzu hearts, not kakuzu himself.
If kakashi doesn't kill kakuzu and he die from naruto attack than naruto kill him.

Kishi will never make kakashi kill kakuzu scene if not to make naruto hand clean.




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