122 replies to this topic

[Cloud]

Well Kishimoto could have at least tried to make them seem more like ninja. Instead of making them more like mercenaries or your typical army. What I mean is if he was going for the ninja angle. He should have tried to keep then a little more secretive. Not have them walking around in broad daylight in front of civilians while wearing your ninja headband. Tha's just blowing your cover. It's no different from a soldier wearing his uniform among regular people. You get what I'm saying? Ninja's shouldn't be announcing to the world their profession by making it completely obvious.

And you forget where they cause huge explosions as well.

But then why call them ninja's when you can just call them magic mercenaries or magic soldiers? If Kishimoto didn't want to follow the ninja motif at all he shouldn't have bothered. Actually I don't even remember how we got on this subject considering my problem is more with the whole Hinata thing, but since we're on the subject I might as well say what I think.


Meh I was a huge Naruto fan, and being in that mindset I used to look into this series far more than I should have. I even was one of those people who called Kishimoto a genius writer and called Naruto a masterpiece. Kinda weird huh considering how I am now?

If it's considered overrated it's probably because Naruto seems to be still heavily popular despite all the bad writing. Sort of how Bleach is still popular despite how bad that has become.


Ya know what? You're right. Perhaps I just go looking for a fight.


I'm just saying that it's no surprise Kishimoto adapts a lot of things from other series into his own. The only problem with that though is that he OVER does it. He adapts way too many elements of other series into his own, and yet never comes up with his own original ideas. It's one thing to be inspired by something and create an original idea of your own from someone else's work. It's completely another to copy that other person's work, and just give it another name.


And yet during the time Sasuke had the spotlight. What was Naruto doing? Sitting on his ass in Konoha. When he wasn't out running around the forest looking for Sasuke. Some main character, and you honestly don't remember where Konohamaru did a yuri as well as yaoi jutsu? Even then though the point stands that during Kishimoto's Uchiha fest Naruto barely did anything. He seemed more like a side character than a main one. It was like Sasuke goes around fighting Akatsuki. Oh wait it's time to cut back to Konoha to see what crazy shenanigans Naruto's up too.

You still don't see Jenskott's point, do you?

Kishimoto didn't want to follow the typical "I'm a sneaky ninja theme", there is still stealth in the manga, but he wanted to make characters appear more human. Kishi's ninja is a complete opposite of what ninja means sometimes. A regular ninja might be sneaky, yes.

You forget the basic fundamentals of being a ninja. Nin, stands for resist/endure, Ja, meaning person. A ninja is a person who endures. Now if he wanted to make a manga about regular ninja, I think people would have lost interest a long time ago. Moving on...

Just because the ninja in Naruto announce their presence and tell everybody they're a ninja, doesn't mean they're also shouting out what they can do and preform. Enter the stealth theme, they hide their abilities and they trick the enemy into a false sense of safety.

Oh, and I suppose One Piece's author doesn't take bits and pieces from other manga either? Or other series of media? Listen, Aethos. Your opinion towards Naruto is too biased. Like Jenskott stated, if you don't like the manga, stop reading. Find a better use for your time, visit a One Piece forum. If you're going to hate on a manga on this forum, it's gonna annoy too many people.

Btw, the Sasuke part? Kishimoto was asked to make Sasuke a central character in one arc to develop him a bit more. Every character gets their share of the spotlight. He might have hogged it for a few chapters, but this series is still called Naruto for a reason. Naruto gets the badass power up skills and is still way more developed in skill than Sasuke.

[Jenskott]

Well Kishimoto could have at least tried to make them seem more like ninja. Instead of making them more like mercenaries or your typical army. What I mean is if he was going for the ninja angle. He should have tried to keep then a little more secretive. Not have them walking around in broad daylight in front of civilians while wearing your ninja headband. Tha's just blowing your cover. It's no different from a soldier wearing his uniform among regular people. You get what I'm saying? Ninja's shouldn't be announcing to the world their profession by making it completely obvious.

I'm sorry, but I think you aren't getting my point. Kishimoto DIDN'T want making them more ninja-like. That never was his intention. He ditched several aspects of the ninja lore in favour of the more legendary ones. Otherwise Naruto would be a Ninja Gaiden ripoff, and he didn't want that (which is the flaw you're accusing him from).

It's because that I tell he can be somewhat original. fHe didn't do that because it's what everybody does.

And you forget where they cause huge explosions as well.

I haven't forgotten that. I was pointing out other examples of ninjas in Naruto world not being like real ninjas. Personally I find those instances more irreal than the aspect you were focusing on.

But then why call them ninja's when you can just call them magic mercenaries or magic soldiers? If Kishimoto didn't want to follow the ninja motif at all he shouldn't have bothered. Actually I don't even remember how we got on this subject considering my problem is more with the whole Hinata thing, but since we're on the subject I might as well say what I think.

As for DC and Marvel superheroes it's okay for them to parade around because they don't follow the ninja way of stealth and camouflage. Which the Narutoverse completely ignores. I don't remember an instance where Naruto characters have stuck to the shadows. They just run out at each other and start punching.

Kishimoto called them ninjas because they display abilities Japanese legends granted to ninjas, but he wouldn't want copying ALL aspects of the ninja lore. He wanted making something different, instead of fully copying other series.

And how I've stated before, I find more irrealistic a ninja can breath fire than a ninja doesn't wear black and isn't stealthy.

As for Marvel and DC, you've missed my point. My point was the way those characters behave makes sense according the pre-set rules of the world of fantasy where they live, even if they make no sense in our world, and who reads their adventures must realize that. Such a reasoning applies to NAruto and any fictional universe, too.

Meh I was a huge Naruto fan, and being in that mindset I used to look into this series far more than I should have. I even was one of those people who called Kishimoto a genius writer and called Naruto a masterpiece. Kinda weird huh considering how I am now?

That was your mistake, but it's one I've made as well with other series.

I don't consider it weird. I started watcing DragonBall back in 1992 (it was being aired inEurope back then) I've loved, hated and loved again that series throughout the years. Sailor Moon suffered from a similar fate with me. First i liked it, then I despised it, and later it grew on me again when I found cheesier shojo mangas.

Ya know what? You're right. Perhaps I just go looking for a fight.

I don't know you as well, so I can't judge that.

I'm just saying that it's no surprise Kishimoto adapts a lot of things from other series into his own. The only problem with that though is that he OVER does it. He adapts way too many elements of other series into his own, and yet never comes up with his own original ideas. It's one thing to be inspired by something and create an original idea of your own from someone else's work. It's completely another to copy that other person's work, and just give it another name.

It depends on the eye of the beholder, but I don't see that at all. I don't see he overdoes it, and defeinitely he doesn't copy elements of other series without giving them his own spin. Actually you were complaining before about he NOT copying all aspects of the ninja lore and his ninjas weren't like other fictional ninjas.

Yeah One Piece characters come off like your average stereotypical characters, but what seperates them is that the more you read the less stereotypical they seem. I think you're just looking at the outside. You just see Luffy as your typical main protagonist because he's got those characteristics for example, but in actuality he's a lot more complex. Heck Luffy is one of the hardest characters to keep in character when writing fanfiction of One Piece because of his complex personality. That kinda says a lot in my view.

Whereas Naruto characters really don't surprise me. You can say that comes from bias, or maybe I just feel that way because I don't see Naruto characters as being very original.

That's your opinion, but personally I think you're biased because you enjoy one series as you've come to loathe the other.

I am looking at the outside? Perhaps, but I'm trying being fair. When I see both series, I see a heap of clichés and stereotypes I've seen hundred of times before. So I can't praise one manga for being original and creative and the fault the other for being neither, when neither of those series are original or creative.

Perhaps it isn't One Piece goes beyond stereotypes and Naruto doesn't, but you enjoy more like One Piece deals with those stereotypes whereas you don't like the spin Naruto uses. Only one thought.

And yet during the time Sasuke had the spotlight. What was Naruto doing? Sitting on his ass in Konoha.

Then I suppose I imagined Team 7 and Team 8 going along on one mission (along the Naruto and Hinata are walking together), his quest for Itachi and Sasuke, his meeting with Itachi and they bumping into Tobi.

When he wasn't out running around the forest looking for Sasuke.

He was going on a mission for finding Itachi and retrieving Sasuke. He wasn'0t out on the forest doing nothing like you assure.

Some main character, and you honestly don't remember where Konohamaru did a yuri as well as yaoi jutsu?

I don't remember him teaching Konohamaru a yuri jutsu, which was your original point, and I don't remember it because it never happened. You stated that exaggerated claim for proving he did nothing during that arc. Given that that claim was false and an exaggeration, your whole rethoric crumbled down.

One advice: if you debate with me, don't exaggerate or make up stuff for making your point. It doesn't work with me.

Even then though the point stands that during Kishimoto's Uchiha fest Naruto barely did anything. He seemed more like a side character than a main one. It was like Sasuke goes around fighting Akatsuki. Oh wait it's time to cut back to Konoha to see what crazy shenanigans Naruto's up too.

No, he didn't seem it. Sasuke was hogging the spotlight for once because it was necessary. Once that the plotlines involving him got tied, the spotlight went back to Naruto.

Yeah you're probably right, but considering how long I've followed this series. I at least wanna see how awful the ending's gonna be. Sort of like why I read the last the last two Harry Potter books despite them being horrendously bad.

Well, I'm sorry if you can't let it go. It's your choice, so I shall not insists further on this.

Plus I don't consider giving negative criticism about a series offensive, and that's all I'm doing. Giving negative criticism to a series I think has gone from good to bad. It's never going to be positive criticism or never caring about it. Especially if you're still a tiny bit of a fan.

No. That isn't all you were doing. You told:

"Not even he's THAT stupid. Meh he proved me wrong there."

That's a personal insult based upon developments you don't agree with. You aren't merely criticiising the writing, you're insulting him. That's offensive, especially considering you don't know that person at all.

And yeah 437 was truly something that came out of a bad NaruHina fanfic. Believe me I've seen enough of them to tell. Honestly her jumping in, professing her love, and then Naruto going Kyuubi over her dying or getting injured is something I've seen in those a hundred times. Though usually he's doing it against Sakura or Sasuke instead of Pein. In any case the chapter just made it seem like Naruto went Kyuubi just because of her confession. To me that was not only bad writing but the last straw on all the bad writing I've been seeing in this series since the Sai arc.

Sincerely, it didn't seem like that to me.

I said I wouldn't insist further on it, but if you feel the writing has crossed the point of no return, you're really wasting your time with it.

But I guess the reason you're getting hostile with me though is because you're tired of people who complain about the direction of the series, but in my view they're complaining for a reason. Not just because they like to complain. I think maybe you should start looking at things that way.

I don't think I'm getting hostile with you. I'm expressing my displeasure about one situation, right like you, and arguing with you about several points we don't agree upon. You haven't annoyed me or pissed me off, and I don't think the debate has got more heated.

Regarding the second part of your statement... No. I'm sorry. If you reread my paragraphs, you'll realize I was looking at things at that way until I realized I was being brainwashed. Then I stopped.

And I understand some people complain for one reason, but in my experience, a lot of them complain because they like complaining (or whining), or because they're trying fitting in for jumping in a bandwagon. Now it's cool and treendy complaining about Naruto so some people complain because they want seem cleverer.

Notice I always tell "a lot of them" or "some people". I'm not talking about everyone and I'm not including you in that group.

Well you liking Bleach more than Naruto kinda did raise my eyebrow a little. Especially after Kenpachi's big power up was holding his sword with two hands, but oh well...

Meh I thought YYH was a great series all the way through but yeah that's just opinion. I understand what you're saying though and as I said I'm only wasting my time with this series because I wanna see how it ends considering how long I've been following it. I appreciate the advice though, and I'm glad we're not offending each other. If you wanna take this to PM though you can. I doubt the mods would want us having this discussion here.

Right like I said, opinions are opinions. Yes, I like more Bleach (in my defense, most Naruto fans I know preffer Bleach. But after complaining about jumping in the bandwagon it doesn't seem a good defense, does it? ).

I don't think it's necessary taking it to PM, but thank you for the offer.

You know if this is going to turn into a back and forth "I'm right, you're wrong" fest then I'm going to stop right here. Because there's no point in me arguing in circles with people who just want to be right. Granted I'm the same way but at least I know when to call it quits.

I don't think I'm going that way, but if you want stopping the argument I'm okay with it. Otherwise we'd be going in cirxles, repeating the same things.

Thank you for your attention.