59 replies to this topic

[Branden]

Just curious.... This doesn't only apply to Naruto, but just about all anime.

[Nefertieh]

Kishimoto himself said in an interview that he imagined Naruto and Sakura to be Caucasian, while Sasuke was Asian. Blonde hair and blue eyes are pretty much an exclusive Caucasian phenotype.

A lot of stereotypical Asian looks are usually reserved for other Asians in anime. Yeah, there is a history behind it, if you want to look it up.

Usually most of the fanbase assume the typical anime character is Japanese not based on their looks, but how they act.

Edit:
Here is the interview:

SJ: If an American Naruto live-action film ever got made, who do you see playing Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke?

KM: Naruto has blue eyes and blond hair, so any child actor in America could play him. Maybe Sasuke would be someone Japanese-American, and Sakura, someone European. I'm not all that familiar with the names of child actors. I only remember Dakota Fanning... [laughs] I love movies and know actors' faces, but not the names.

Source: http://www.thecenter...?showtopic=2604

Edited by Nefertieh, 16 September 2012 - 01:11 PM.

[No WhereMan]

Just curious.... This doesn't only apply to Naruto, but just about all anime.

http://thesocietypag...elves-as-white/

[sardns]

This article might help somewhat. It's about mukokuseki, which is using racially ambiguous features for anime/manga characters.

[jworks]

I've thought this interesting too. The thing for me though when it comes to Naruto is that it takes place in it's own world. No one is japanese , there is no japan. I liked what Kishimoto did with ethnicity in Naruto. Different regions had higher population of different ethnicities (like the real world) for example, notice that many if not the majority of cloud ninja are black. And then on top of that on another level there are clan traits. For example most (or all i've seen) Uchiha have black hair. Or the Hyuuga have those eyes. I think Kishi has managed to make ethnicity in the Naruto universe another point of tension or conflict between nations/clans. Which really is a main theme of Naruto, it's a world always at or on the brink of war and that's what both Pain and Tobi have set out to erase. Also it's how the real world operates as well so it grounds the story and makes it relatable.

[Jenskott]

Anime characters look like they do due to the influence of Western animation.

Osamu Tezuka LOVED Western animation, mainly Disney cartoons and movies, and he used that cartoony style (big eyes, little noses, disproportionated limbs...) when he drew. Given that he influenced ALL manga and anime made after WWII, that style spread everywhere.

Moreover, if you realize, that style is mainly used by shonen and shojo manga because they target teenagers. Asian characters in seinen and josei tend to display Asian features. And even in shonen manga few adult characters are drawn like that.

Regarding the question, I never thought of the Naruto characters like white. I thought they were supposed to be Asian, even if Naruto was blonde and blue-eyed, and Sakura was pink-haired and green-eyed (and seriously, I do not see many white people with pink hair).

[Nefertieh]

^ Kishimoto said if he imaged Naruto characters in real life, Naruto and Sakura would be white, Sasuke would be Asian. It was the same interview where he said a half Uchiha half Hyuuga child would have one of each eye.

Although anime was initially influenced by Disney cartoons, you would have to take into account that a lot of Asians do not like the "Asian" appearance. That is why a lot of Asian women dye their hair, wear large circle lense contacts and so forth. The modern world is extremely westernized, and Hollywood has largely changed the perception of beauty. Its not to say we Asians want to change our race completely, but looking "westernized" is percieved to be fashionable and chic.

I have also read an artical several years ago which said "Asian" appearances have been used in anti-Asian propaganda in the past, and so mangaka tnd to avoid making their characters distinctively look like those caricatures.

Edited by Nefertieh, 05 September 2012 - 07:56 AM.

[Jenskott]

^ Kishimoto said if he imaged Naruto characters in real life, Naruto and Sakura would be white, Sasuke would be Asian. It was the same interview where he said a half Uchiha half Hyuuga child would have one of each eye.

I remember the part about the Hyuuga/Uchiha child, but I did not remember the another bit.

Slightly off-topic, but I thought he was being facetious and not serious about a Hyuuga/Uchiha child having one of each eye? That sentence ended up with a lol, so I think he was joking. I may be wrong, though.

Although anime was initially influenced by Disney cartoons, you would have to take into account that a lot of Asians do not like the "Asian" appearance. That is why a lot of Asian women dye their hair, wear large circle lense contacts and so forth. The modern world is extremely westernized, and Hollywood has largely changed the perception of beauty. Its not to say we Asians want to change our race completely, but looking "westernized" is percieved to be fashionable and chic.

I mentioned the Western cartoon influence in case someone wondered why Asian characters have Western traits in anime.

By the way, I have met many people declaring they hate anime due to the art style and praising Disney's. It makes me shaking my head, but I guess the irony is funny.

More than ten years ago, I remember reading an article regarding this same subject, stating anime characters look Western because Japanese are ashamed about looking Japanese (an oversimplification, but bear with me. Besides, it has been a long while since I read it). However that person used a terrible example for proving his/her point. He/she mentioned the two main female characters of Evangelion and after admiting Asuka's hair and eyes color was understandable since she was German (as far as I know, red hair is a Celtic trait, not German, but I disgress), Rei was blue-haired and red-eyed, which is unusual on a Japanese girl. Should that person have looked for information about the show (I would not suggest him/her watching it), he or she would know Rei was only partially human, so it was justified.

Anyway, I think the modern world is "Americanized" rather "Westernized", since America's influence also feels heavily on Europe. On my country, the Fool's day was 12-28 instead of 4-2, and we had never celebrated Halloween... until few years ago. And now a lot of people also treats 4-2 like if it also was Fool's Day..

Nevertheless, cultural shifts and their causes is an interesting subject, but we are going off topic.

I have also read an artical several years ago which said "Asian" appearances have been used in anti-Asian propaganda in the past, and so mangaka tnd to avoid making their characters distinctively look like those caricatures.

Maybe. Manga was used like propaganda pieces during WWII. I have read nothing of it (not even Norakuro), but I imagine it would be nasty against "gaijin" (foreigners).

It reminds me American comic-books covers featured heavy propaganda during WWII. Mainly anti-German and anti-Asian. You found characters riding bombs or such sentences like "Slap the Jap".

[Nefertieh]

I remember the part about the Hyuuga/Uchiha child, but I did not remember the another bit.

Slightly off-topic, but I thought he was being facetious and not serious about a Hyuuga/Uchiha child having one of each eye? That sentence ended up with a lol, so I think he was joking. I may be wrong, though.

Maybe it was from a different interview. I'm sure someone can Google it...

I mentioned the Western cartoon influence in case someone wondered why Asian characters have Western traits in anime.

By the way, I have met many people declaring they hate anime due to the art style and praising Disney's. It makes me shaking my head, but I guess the irony is funny.

More than ten years ago, I remember reading an article regarding this same subject, stating anime characters look Western because Japanese are ashamed about looking Japanese (an oversimplification, but bear with me. Besides, it has been a long while since I read it). However that person used a terrible example for proving his/her point. He/she mentioned the two main female characters of Evangelion and after admiting Asuka's hair and eyes color was understandable since she was German (as far as I know, red hair is a Celtic trait, not German, but I disgress), Rei was blue-haired and red-eyed, which is unusual on a Japanese girl. Should that person have looked for information about the show (I would not suggest him/her watching it), he or she would know Rei was only partially human, so it was justified.

The article I read was more about racism, both directed at Asians and also from Asians to other Asians. It's a lot to read about, but kids these days don't really like history.

Maybe those people you've mentioned don't like anime because of the over-beautification of their characters? Granted, Disney characters are also idealised, but often you get weird and quirky looking characters too. Even in historical seinen manga, Japanese samurai are often tall, contrary to historical evidence.

Anyway, I think the modern world is "Americanized" rather "Westernized", since America's influence also feels heavily on Europe. On my country, the Fool's day was 12-28 instead of 4-2, and we had never celebrated Halloween... until few years ago. And now a lot of people also treats 4-2 like if it also was Fool's Day..

Nevertheless, cultural shifts and their causes is an interesting subject, but we are going off topic.

Halloween isn't an American holiday... but yes, America is extremely influential.

[Darth Krypt]

When I read or watch manga/anime, I see the characters as Japanese. Because of its written by Japanese I just see it that way. In Naruto, they have Japanese names and Japanese culture. It would be boring if all of the character designs were Japanese(small eyes, black hair). Just because the hair is blonde, that character is modeled after a Caucasian? Are you sure? So what race is a character with pink hair modeled after? How about green, purple etc?

Edited by Darth Krypt, 05 September 2012 - 09:30 AM.

[Branden]

well its the skin color really, it's closer to white then it is to... asian? not sure if thats the correct wording but you get my point. I mean I suppose if it's a really pale skin color then it makes sense. but if thats the case then the question I pose is this : why is everyone in anime pale?

[Nefertieh]

When I read or watch manga/anime, I see the characters as Japanese. Because of its written by Japanese I just see it that way. In Naruto, they have Japanese names and Japanese culture. It would be boring if all of the character designs were Japanese(small eyes, black hair). Just because the hair is blonde, that character is modeled after a Caucasian? Are you sure? So what race is a character with pink hair modeled after? How about green, purple etc?

Well, Kishi said it himself that they were.

Obviously nobody has pink hair, but the closest natural shade to Sakura's colour would probably be blonde. There are rare natural blondes in some Aboriginal Australians if I recall correctly, but scarcely anywhere else, and not with blue eyes.

To put more confusion into the matter, Sakura wears a Chinese Manchurian dress.

well its the skin color really, it's closer to white then it is to... asian? not sure if thats the correct wording but you get my point. I mean I suppose if it's a really pale skin color then it makes sense. but if thats the case then the question I pose is this : why is everyone in anime pale?

White skin has always been a mark of a nobel in many cultures, as it meant you did less labour work. Unlike Caucasians, Asians usually have a slightly darker skin colour, so there is no need to get a tan to look healthy.

Edited by Nefertieh, 05 September 2012 - 09:48 AM.

[Nefertieh]

There is a theory that Caucasians have a lot of different traits because there was a shortage of men a few thousand years ago. Women with striking features, like blonde hair, had an advantage over the default homosapien colours, and therefore were selected for in the population.

[Branden]

There is a theory that Caucasians have a lot of different traits because there was a shortage of men a few thousand years ago. Women with striking features, like blonde hair, had an advantage over the default homosapien colours, and therefore were selected for in the population.

What? Explain yourself more thoroughly please.

[Nefertieh]

What? Explain yourself more thoroughly please.

How much do you know about biology, evolution and natural selection?

You can read more from here.

[Branden]

How much do you know about biology, evolution and natural selection?

You can read more from here.

your still not explaining yourself

[Nefertieh]

I'm not sure what you don't understand. I can't make an explanation unless I know what you know.

[Jenskott]

I guess what Nefertieth means is according that theory, there were a shortage of Caucasian females. Due to it, Caucasian males searched mates between women were not Caucasian. Hence, the Caucasian gene pool became more diverse. For example, blonde hair and blue eyes are traits usually are not inherited, but due to many black-haired and blonde people mixing their traits, red-haired people was born...

I do not know if I am explaining myself well...

[Nefertieh]

^ No, that is incorrect. There was a shortage of MALES several thousand years ago in Europe. Therefore there was less food, and men could only support small families, so they were mostly monogamous.

Because there were so many women, the most "attractive" or "stand out" ones usually had a higher chance of finding a husband. These women, who had more unique colourings, were "selected for," resulting in the diversity among Caucasians today.

Edited by Nefertieh, 05 September 2012 - 02:22 PM.

[Branden]

I guess what Nefertieth means is according that theory, there were a shortage of Caucasian females. Due to it, Caucasian males searched mates between women were not Caucasian. Hence, the Caucasian gene pool became more diverse. For example, blonde hair and blue eyes are traits usually are not inherited, but due to many black-haired and blonde people mixing their traits, red-haired people was born...

I do not know if I am explaining myself well...

That's much better, thanks. It's till not very clear how this ties in to the discussion though...