54175 replies to this topic

[rocci]

@skarrow
It's the side effect of his bijuu plant on him.
Garra doesn't get the wind attack from the one tail.

He can control the sand through magnetism or wind manipulation or simply by his will. It never get indepth explanation.

[Skarrow]

@skarrow
It's the side effect of his bijuu plant on him.
Garra doesn't get the wind attack from the one tail.

He can control the sand through magnetism or wind manipulation or simply by his will. It never get indepth explanation.

 

Thanks. What about the thing with his mother that was revealed in the War Arc? How does that factor into it?

[rocci]

 
Thanks. What about the thing with his mother that was revealed in the War Arc? How does that factor into it?

I don't really remember that scene but if I'm not mistaken, his protective sand come from his mother and the revelation (or perhaps a retcon) that his father love him and his uncle just put a facade.

That's why his mother love manifest into a humanoid sand that resemble her mother.

[VanitasDS76491]

I agree 100%,I felt the exact same way about sakura when reading it too.  as much as people try to compare this to dbz, at least dbz followed through with the journey and what it was meant to be and its morals, it doesn't matter how bad super or anything else gets since in the end the the orignal story still holds up and toriyama is still a better author than kishimoto hands down. every shonen I've ever watched is better than naruto, even for example yu yu hakusho, at least they followed through on the story and everything it was supposed to be. how can anyone call kishimoto a good author?

Agreed just finished Yu Yu Hauksho recently and it was good and brought finale to the characters after everything they went through together. Especially Yusuke and Keiko getting together. 

 

I just watched a watchmojo list of top 10 magna artist and Kishi was number 9 on and take a wild guess who number 1 is cause it may or may not surprise you. Togashi was ranked #8 on the list, The Author of Full Metal Alchemist was I think ranked 6th and oda was 3rd.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Agreed just finished Yu Yu Hauksho recently and it was good and brought finale to the characters after everything they went through together. Especially Yusuke and Keiko getting together. 
 
I just watched a watchmojo list of top 10 magna artist and Kishi was number 9 on and take a wild guess who number 1 is cause it may or may not surprise you. Togashi was ranked #8 on the list, The Author of Full Metal Alchemist was I think ranked 6th and oda was 3rd.

I figure who it may be. I'm not sure what's based on but being number 1, well if it's influenced, I guess so, maybe. No, I'm not a hater, just wouldn't be my number 1. I am baffled that Inoue only got honorable mention. I mean come on, Slam Dunk inspired millions, so why not among them. Eh, their list has been scratching my head many times.

And no Berserk Miura. Screw that... I get it, honorable mention, but what qualifies to be in the actual list? Success? Because it sure feels that way.

Edited by TouKen4Life3g, 19 April 2016 - 03:13 PM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

I figure who it may be. I'm not sure what's based on but being number 1, well if it's influenced, I guess so, maybe. No, I'm not a hater, just wouldn't be my number 1. I am baffled that Inoue only got honorable mention. I mean come on, Slam Dunk inspired millions, so why not among them. Eh, their list has been scratching my head many times.

And no Berserk Miura. Screw that... I get it, honorable mention, but what qualifies to be in the actual list? Success? Because it sure feels that way.

It goes to show just how little the users actually know, going only by what they've heard is popular really.

It's why, on the Top 10 Gundams list, a bunch of the Gundams were from the more Western mainstreamed series (Wing, SEED/SEED Destiny, and 00) with a few from others.

[NeonRanger]

I watch the watchmojo vid. Yeah, they said that this is based by popular culture, or who created a bigger impact. I thought the list was okay; a little. The Horror manga, nor the creator of Monster I have never heard of or read any one of their manga. Neither did people I know of. One Piece created a huge impact, but that's mainly in Japan for the most part. I never knew about Berserk or Slam Dunk or Hunter x Hunter until a few years into Naruto/Bleach, when I decided to explore more. I also watched DB/DBZ and Sailor Moon when I was young. 

Edited by NeonRanger, 19 April 2016 - 09:37 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I watch the watchmojo vid. Yeah, they said that this is based by popular culture, or who created a bigger impact. I thought the list was okay; a little. The Horror manga, nor the creator of Monster I have never heard of or read any one of their manga. Neither did people I know of. One Piece created a huge impact, but that's mainly in Japan for the most part. I never knew about Berserk or Slam Dunk or Hunter x Hunter until a few years into Naruto/Bleach, when I decided to explore more. I also watched DB/DBZ and Sailor Moon when I was young. 

Well fine. I'll let that slide.

[ultranx]

Agreed just finished Yu Yu Hauksho recently and it was good and brought finale to the characters after everything they went through together. Especially Yusuke and Keiko getting together. 

 

I just watched a watchmojo list of top 10 magna artist and Kishi was number 9 on and take a wild guess who number 1 is cause it may or may not surprise you. Togashi was ranked #8 on the list, The Author of Full Metal Alchemist was I think ranked 6th and oda was 3rd.

I knew toriyama would be number 1 from the get go BUT I HAD NO IDEA HE WAS THE ONE WHO MADE THE CHARACTER DESIGNS OF CHRONO TRIGGER!! huh the more you know xD

[LuckyChi7]

You know it's sad when it hear that NaruHina was planned since the beginning, and I'm over here going like so why the hell did they not talk to each other after the war because most would assume that brought them closer when instead it got brushed aside making Hinata reverse in what she was at the beginning of Part 1 and 2.


I mean honestly, how would your perception be if Naruto and Hinata interacted from the beginning of The Last with idk having some growth in their friendship and them paying their respects to Neji, and maybe showcase how Hinata is more open to hanging out with him to a point of even going to lunch with him or something like that.. Idk that's just me I would've kinda bought it and be somewhat okay, but I still would've believed NaruSaku should've been the seal deal in terms of who Naruto ending up with someone.

[tricksie]

You know it's sad when it hear that NaruHina was planned since the beginning, and I'm over here going like so why the hell did they not talk to each other after the war because most would assume that brought them closer when instead it got brushed aside making Hinata reverse in what she was at the beginning of Part 1 and 2.

Of all things, I feel like that one is the biggest lie. Even though Kishimoto is sometimes attributed as saying it. I think the idea that it was planned from the beginning is just spin to make NH legit (even though the fans no it's not).

 

And when Kishi says he planned things out from the beginning, I swear I think he means Naruto and Sasuke and their being reincarnations, unmasking Tobi as Obito (who is then redeemed), then reuniting to fighting Madara and Kaguya. Not Sakura or Hinata. He could give a crap about the girls and shipping.

 

I have never once thought that NH being planned from the beginning was true. Hinata is not even a blip until the very end. That's why they had to retcon so much with the movie. Because it was supposed to go NS, and they know it!

[Skarrow]

It was obvious by the time Kaguya showed up in the manga that Kishi had like zero f-ks to give. Interviews can't be trusted anymore because he can't stay consistent. Story can't be properly analyzed because nothing is consistent. Retcons, retcons everywhere.

 

 

 

I knew toriyama would be number 1 from the get go BUT I HAD NO IDEA HE WAS THE ONE WHO MADE THE CHARACTER DESIGNS OF CHRONO TRIGGER!! huh the more you know xD

 

LOL I thought everybody knew it just by looking at Chrono Trigger's official artwork? Even if you don't think it's Toriyama's immediately, you can't help but think "these designs looks familiar..."

Edited by Skarrow, 20 April 2016 - 01:43 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

You know it's sad when it hear that NaruHina was planned since the beginning, and I'm over here going like so why the hell did they not talk to each other after the war because most would assume that brought them closer when instead it got brushed aside making Hinata reverse in what she was at the beginning of Part 1 and 2.


I mean honestly, how would your perception be if Naruto and Hinata interacted from the beginning of The Last with idk having some growth in their friendship and them paying their respects to Neji, and maybe showcase how Hinata is more open to hanging out with him to a point of even going to lunch with him or something like that.. Idk that's just me I would've kinda bought it and be somewhat okay, but I still would've believed NaruSaku should've been the seal deal in terms of who Naruto ending up with someone.

You know where that's coming from right? The rumor about hinata being planned since the beginning, In one of the early volumes kishi put some art of hinata in a sundress on one of the volume author note sections. So people saw it and started to claim that kishi had planned hinata from the beginning and that she was either suppose to be the heroine or was suppose to be a civilian that naruto fell in love with or some other bs. The reason they know about that author section is that the first couple of chapters in scan sites just took the pages from the volumes instead of from weekly shounen jump mag. So that were that rumor is coming from. I seen people debunk it and say that the image was about how kishi was showing one of his assistants how to draw a new character, who became hinata. 

 

If you are talking about kishi and one of his comments if it after the ending. He changes his stance every other interview, especially when it was before the last. So best to ignore it.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 20 April 2016 - 06:20 AM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Of all things, I feel like that one is the biggest lie. Even though Kishimoto is sometimes attributed as saying it. I think the idea that it was planned from the beginning is just spin to make NH legit (even though the fans no it's not).

 

And when Kishi says he planned things out from the beginning, I swear I think he means Naruto and Sasuke and their being reincarnations, unmasking Tobi as Obito (who is then redeemed), then reuniting to fighting Madara and Kaguya. Not Sakura or Hinata. He could give a crap about the girls and shipping.

 

I have never once thought that NH being planned from the beginning was true. Hinata is not even a blip until the very end. That's why they had to retcon so much with the movie. Because it was supposed to go NS, and they know it!

Hinata wasn't even introduced until Chapter 30 or so and even then, she barely says a few words to Naruto himself throughout the entire Chunin Exam, then just disappears afterward and isn't seen or heard from again until post-Sasuke Retrieval (in which case, upon seeing the one she "loves" hurt bandaged up so much in the hospital, she promptly faints without a word) and then disappears again until that one panel at the very end of part one which is why SP has to go out of their way to make so much extra/filler stuff involving her, like showing her present as early as the third episode of the anime.

And then part two comes around (chapter 245) and, surprise surprise, Hinata isn't re-introduced along with Team 8 until chapter 282, almost forty chapters in, and you know how many words she actually says? One..."Gah!"...yes...that's it...that's all she says aloud.

Know when she shows up again afterwards (at least from quickly skimming around)? Chapter 354, when Team 8 is chosen to accompany Team 7 to find Sasuke (shortly before he fights Deidara), so she's not even there because she "mattered" in any romantic sense but simply because of convenience due to Team 8's tracking specialty as a whole and, of course, barely anything is ever said between the two specifically (and also includes Hinata freaking from Naruto getting kicked into water by Tobi, then does nothing but stand there with the Byakugan to keep watch on Tobi), and this whole thing goes on through Chapter 396 (after Sasuke vs. Itachi, obviously far more focus on Sasuke than Naruto and co.) and then...just gone again. Literally.

Next time we see them is when everyone is already back in Konoha after losing track of Sasuke and Team 8 has already departed and Team 7 learns about Jiraiya's death and such. Guess who consoles Naruto in his grief afterwards? iruka, the one Naruto says was the first one to accept him.

Then, of course, doesn't show up again (in regards to Naruto) until the infamous Chapter 437, "Confession", which we all know about, and then Chapter 450, with Naruto returning after Nagato dies and Sakura is the one to greet and hug him.

Gone again...until the infamous hand-holding in Chapter 615-616, 179 chapters later.

Then not mattering until the awesome tripping scene of Chapter 662, almost fifty more chapters.

And then pretty much not mattering again until the ending.

So yeah...NH was tooooooooooooooootally "planned since the beginning". That's why she was such a constant and influential figure throughout Naruto's life and always had such a huge positive effect on him especially in his lowest moments..

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

People    Are you forgetting the TnJ? The creators are using it to indoctrinate the majority of audience that follows this piece of trash of a franchise. As long as the 'talking" does its job. There is no need for action.

Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 20 April 2016 - 11:13 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

People    Are you forgetting the TnJ? The creators are using it to indoctrinate the majority of audience that follows this piece of trash of a franchise. As long as the 'talking" does its job. There is no need for action.

Who needs fighting when that person is clearly unstable when you have a simple talk. I'm not endorsing fighting is the solution to everything, but in here, everyone is made for "can't talk him out, so no choice," yet talk changes them. Like 180.

[Skarrow]

What ultimately disappointed me about Sakura was the fact that she was one of the four main characters of Naruto (that's Team 7, basically).

 

People would claim in the past that "Hinata makes a better heroine than Sakura" but these are the shippers talking. Anyone who seriously compared the two of them before The Last had their shipper goggles on full power, fighting over whether Naruto should father Hinata's babies or Sakura's babies. Other than Uzumaki Naruto, they had nothing relevant to compare with each other.

 

Because Sakura was a main character, and Hinata was a side character. That's all there is to it.

 

Hinata was a side character, so expectations for her were relatively low.

 

Sakura on the other hand was a MAIN character, and her character development and relevancy to the plot was supposed to be keeping up with Naruto's, Sasuke's, and Kakashi's. Or at least keeping up with Kakashi's development/relevancy because one of the major focuses of the manga was the Naruto/Sasuke rivalry.

 

Her development in part 1 was... okay. She started out as a noisy brat who didn't understand orphans. Then she had the scene where she was unable to keep from crying when Sasuke was presumed dead in the Waves arc. She then protected Naruto and Sasuke from Sound ninja in the Chuunin Exams. Her fight with her rival Ino in the prelims was a moment of strength for her. POAL happened. And then she goes up to Tsunade and asks for training.

 

At the beginning of part 2 her development/relevance skyrocketed so much, fans were going crazy. She singlehandedly saved Kankuro from death by poison, a poison that no one knew how to treat, with the skills she'd picked up during the timeskip. She teamed up with Chiyo to fight with Sasori and beat him, when in the past all she could do was just act as a meat shield with a kunai.

 

Expectations of Sakura were hyped up like crazy... and Sakura herself just stopped. She was just there. Or used as a device, like a side character. She failed to live up to the weighty expectations that had been placed on her. In comparison, Sasuke and Naruto's characters got loads and loads of attention and relevancy. Kakashi faded from the spotlight for a while, but bounced back when Obito's identity was revealed. But Sakura's development/relevance just came to a halt after the Gaara Rescue arc. Worse, her development/relevancy took a nosedive during the Kage Summit arc.

 

The Kage Summit arc was arguably one of the worst arcs of part 2 and the entire series, because while the War arc created plot hole after plot hole, the Kage Summit arc gave all four main characters negative character development. Sakura got hit by it the worst, because up until then her relevancy/development had been completely static. I'm not talking about her confession to Naruto. I'm talking about when she had the chance to kill/seriously injure Sasuke, and didn't take it.

 

We already know about how her spine had been ripped away from her and all she began to focus on was Sasuke, resetting any development she had left, so I won't talk about it here. I think everyone would agree that Sakura was beyond saving when Sasuke told her "sorry" and she replied with "for what?".

 

Sakura had the potential. Kakashi had pointed out in part 1 that Sakura was intelligent, had a talent for chakra control and genjutsu, and was "the same as Naruto" in the sense that she hated giving up and refused to go down easily. In part 2 Kakashi also noted that at the rate of her development, Sakura would soon surpass Tsunade herself. Chiyo commented that Sakura had a noble heart, which was rare (among kunoichi). Ignoring the slight sexist undertones, Chiyo was referring to Sakura's strength of character as a person and as a shinobi. Sakura had the potential... and she failed to live up to everyone's expectations.

 

So.

 

Sakura got replaced by Hinata as a main character in The Last.

 

Now that the focus was on Hinata and not on Sakura (who was officially a side character at this point), we see the exact same problems.

 

Hinata actually has a workable backstory: her father issues, her self-esteem issues, and the Hyuuga Branch enslavement issues. Mysteriously, they are never brought up, and her shyness isn't acknowledged by the narrative as a character flaw. Instead, it gets heavily romanticized.

 

Hinata is shown to not have changed at all since her part 1 self. She is unable to give Naruto a scarf without some serious prodding from Sakura. Actually, it's even worse because in part 1, Hinata mustered up the courage to give Naruto the medicine herself (and succeeded), but in The Last she was literally unable to talk to Naruto for two whole years, and was unable to give the scarf to Naruto until they were in the middle of dangerous enemy territory, with her own sister suffering from missing eyeballs close by.

 

When she learns about Toneri's plans to destroy the world and what he did to Hanabi's eyes, she keeps the information to herself instead of informing her teammates about it, then proceeds to romantically frolic with Naruto through a destroyed city and fix the red scarf. When she finds out that she is the Byakugan Princess in that very same city, destined to save the world, from Hamura Otsutsuki himself, she again keeps that vital information to herself instead of coming up with a plan together with her teammates and continues to knit the red scarf, then goes off by herself with Toneri without a word. She isn't even shown worrying about Hanabi, her own sister, at all.

 

Despite her newly acquired powers she'd gained from Hamura as the Byakugan Princess, which supposedly makes her stronger than both Naruto and Sasuke, she is unable to follow through and destroy the Tenseigan. Even if her success was dictated by destiny itself. Toneri, who doesn't trust Hinata at all, for some inexplicable reason covers his entire face right in full view of her because the pain of his developing doujutsu is too great, and Hinata doesn't capitalize on it. It's Sakura failing to capitalize on her chance to kill Sasuke all over again, except now it's Hinata's turn to fail.

 

The only important things Hinata got to do in her own movie were: 1) Infiltrate Toneri's castle 2) pluck out Hanabi's eyeballs from Toneri's eyesockets 3) Do a combination attack with Naruto.

 

And then when everything ended, Hinata invites Toneri, the same guy who nearly ended all life as we know it, the same guy who tried to force marriage on her (and most likely rape her later on), the same guy who stole Hanabi's eyeballs, the same guy who destroyed Naruto-kun's red scarf that she worked so hard on since the beginning of this movie, to live with them on earth. Toneri refuses the offer and decides to live alone on the moon to repent. Basically, Hinata did the same thing as Sakura and instantly forgave Toneri for all the atrocities he'd committed, and Toneri pulled a Sasuke by staying away to "repent" but instead of becoming a wanderer, he's on the moon. And thus he got away with everything. Sasuke had the excuse of being one of those who saved the world, what's Toneri's excuse?

 

When the Bolt movie came out, she was made irrelevant again.

 

The conclusion is thus: Sakura failed as a main character, and her relevancy/story arc/character development just went full circle, all the way back to her chapter 3 self. And Hinata also failed as a main character, because she also went full circle by going from being irrelevant, to being a relevant main character and failing to meet the standards placed on her, and then falling quickly back to her irrelevant status. If the title "heroine" means "which girl successfully banged Naruto" and nothing else, then I don't give a damn anymore.

Edited by Skarrow, 20 April 2016 - 02:34 PM.

[ultranx]

You know it's sad when it hear that NaruHina was planned since the beginning, and I'm over here going like so why the hell did they not talk to each other after the war because most would assume that brought them closer when instead it got brushed aside making Hinata reverse in what she was at the beginning of Part 1 and 2.


I mean honestly, how would your perception be if Naruto and Hinata interacted from the beginning of The Last with idk having some growth in their friendship and them paying their respects to Neji, and maybe showcase how Hinata is more open to hanging out with him to a point of even going to lunch with him or something like that.. Idk that's just me I would've kinda bought it and be somewhat okay, but I still would've believed NaruSaku should've been the seal deal in terms of who Naruto ending up with someone.

and those same people say hinata is like chichi from dragon ball, that makes even less sense because hinata doesn't have a violent bone in her body, compare adult chichi to adult hinata, I'm like "WTF ARE THEY SEEING 0.O "

 

literally the only thing the same between them is they're both royalty and both side characters, THAT'S IT. and if that's their excuse then they are completely clueless in debates when we compare different females to sakura, at least with sakura there's an actual comparison PERSONALITY WISE,the whole point of the comparisons is the personalities and interactions, seriously....

Edited by ultranx, 20 April 2016 - 06:48 PM.

[ultranx]

It was obvious by the time Kaguya showed up in the manga that Kishi had like zero f-ks to give. Interviews can't be trusted anymore because he can't stay consistent. Story can't be properly analyzed because nothing is consistent. Retcons, retcons everywhere.

 

 

 

 

LOL I thought everybody knew it just by looking at Chrono Trigger's official artwork? Even if you don't think it's Toriyama's immediately, you can't help but think "these designs looks familiar..."

I've never played chrono trigger so I was surprised. I've heard so many good things about it so I may try it.

 

You know where that's coming from right? The rumor about hinata being planned since the beginning, In one of the early volumes kishi put some art of hinata in a sundress on one of the volume author note sections. So people saw it and started to claim that kishi had planned hinata from the beginning and that she was either suppose to be the heroine or was suppose to be a civilian that naruto fell in love with or some other bs. The reason they know about that author section is that the first couple of chapters in scan sites just took the pages from the volumes instead of from weekly shounen jump mag. So that were that rumor is coming from. I seen people debunk it and say that the image was about how kishi was showing one of his assistants how to draw a new character, who became hinata. 

 

If you are talking about kishi and one of his comments if it after the ending. He changes his stance every other interview, especially when it was before the last. So best to ignore it.

 

OMG EVERY NH FAN USES THAT AS THEIR ARGUMENT AGAINST ME!! and those people have the nerve to act like its fact because of fan scans that were used way after the manga was turned into volumes here??!!! its official the pro ender nh fans are a bunch of idiots....to think a series like naruto got ruined by morons who think fan scans are official instead of the magazines, shonen jump alpha, and volumes....ugh....

Edited by ultranx, 20 April 2016 - 06:58 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

"Hinata actually has a workable backstory: her father issues, her self-esteem issues, and the Hyuuga Branch enslavement issues. Mysteriously, they are never brought up, and her shyness isn't acknowledged by the narrative as a character flaw. Instead, it gets heavily romanticized."

 

Her shyness as well as a lot of her other character traits are criticized in the manga. During and after she charged Pein she was criticize for being stupidly reckless by Naruto and Neji and she called herself selfish. Sakura had to tell her to focus on the fight against tobi and not to worry about Naruto. So it like with us Kishi knows what her character flaws are and criticizes them. The problem is that people who love her who work on the anime don't see them as character flaws and love those aspects about her personality. And since her fans are basing her off the anime more then the manga she is perfect without any flaws.

 

You know her Father became less of a kitten after the Neji Naruto fight, and it was more Naruto promise of becoming hokage to end the slavery practice because what it did to neji. So hinata actually is a side character who story actually revolves around neji. Remove neji and all she has is a complete and utter obsessive devotion to her Naruto-kun.

 

 

Edit: Also Ultra where else do you think they got any information about kishi from? Reading his interviews? Actually buying and reading the volumes? Cause remember mangaka put author notes in their volumes. I forget who but some one here was reading their copies and telling us what he said in the later volumes like he likes taking baths. Unless the information is basically given to them they are not going to go look for it. 

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 20 April 2016 - 08:25 PM.