54175 replies to this topic

[dl316bh]

To be fair to Hinata, I don't think it made her a bad person. She was just a kid at the time, with her own hang-ups and issues. She should have at least tried - and while it was a half-assed late Part One retcon, Sasuke with all his baggage did reach out at one point - and if she had maybe things might have turned out differently for them both and the end pairing might have made more sense, but she didn't. She mostly just stuck with her romanticized notion of him, a notion I can't even remember (did she ever explain why she liked him during any part of the manga?) That's the weird thing; she never really knew him at all, never made any grand attempts to know him, never even really had many warm interactions with him or even interactions at all and barely did anything but hover in the background. That probably should have been fixed much, much earlier if the ending was intended.

 

But yeah, she should have reached out. Sakura at least had the excuse of just being a cute boy obsessed girl who had no idea what was going on with Naruto and didn't care to find out because she barely knew him. But Hinata was kind of screwed up too. I just liken all the problems with the whole thing to bad writing and what I suspect was probably a last minute decision.

 

I generally don't get my proverbial panties tied in a knot too much over the plots of fighting games (I'm used to them being pretty crap), but yikes, sounds like something really went wrong with Soul Calibur in that department. Mortal Kombat is at least providing a comprehensible (if not good) story for their reboot games, and DOA fixed the story of their first four games with Dimensions.

 

I just got myself Soul Calibur 6. I need to play it, but DAMN do I love web-slinging.

 

I don't either - they're fighting games, most of them don't need plots beyond "there's a tournament oh and I guess the final boss of the tournament is evil" - but if a story is going to be there I figure it should at least make sense. The few Soul Calibers I played were nonsensical to a degree that made the early Dead or Alive games make sense in comparison. I had no clue what was happening in IV. I appreciated Mortal Kombat doing something simple and coherent with its continuity quasi-reboot. I even have fun with the Injustice games, even if the idea of Evil Superman makes me roll my eyes. Such a Frank Miller-esque idea.

[DrK]

Another one I see is Sakura's confession and the fact that "she lied and that is wrong."

Again, they wanted SS canon. If they made NS canon, then that scene changes context to Sakura being the one to tell the truth and Naruto be the Sasuke obsessed dumbass. You either make Sakura the bad guy or Naruto the bad guy in this context and seeing how they don't want Naruto to be seen as the bad guy....hindsight 20/20.
 

The problem with that scene is that she did lie, she still did love Sasuke and both Sai and Kishi interviews from around that time support that. Naruto shouldn't have reacted the way that he did but he couldn't have accepted it either

 

What Analyzer basically kept trying to tell me was that the characterization from before in regards to how she felt about Naruto didn't matter because it was retconned by that scene. And while I don't agree with that view I can understand why someone would have it.

 

Kishi was the one who kept giving people ammunition to use against Sakura. It's a horrible, unpleasant scene that he shouldn't have written. He already explored the same themes with the promise of a lifetime bit. Sakura could still have tried and/or failed to kill Sasuke but her reasons for doing so shouldn't have been elaborated on in that way (and especially not by Sai, someone who doesn't understand human emotions. That was just f***ing stupid.)

[dl316bh]

Worth noting that the writing had already gone off a cliff at that point and none of our main characters really came off the greatest. Naruto was so hung up on Sasuke I once remarked that he came off closer to a obsessive ex who can't let go. Sasuke, meanwhile, seemed bound and determined to become so irredeemable the manga couldn't possibly end with him redeemed through anything other than simple author fiat. Sakura probably annoyed me the least, at the time, of anyone. Hell, I still think that scene makes no sense if she is lying about the confession, or at least it makes no sense if the author didn't want Sakura to come off like a total a$$hole.

 

I'd argue against the idea that scene retconned anything, regardless. It didn't really give us any definitive answers about how she felt, conjecture by Sai aside, much less change any prior continuity.

Edited by dl316bh, 06 January 2019 - 08:19 AM.

[DrK]

I'd argue against the idea that scene retconned anything, regardless. It didn't really give us any definitive answers about how she felt, conjecture by Sai aside, much less change any prior continuity.

Sai is the guy who didn't understand why calling a girl ugly would make them angry. He had to be sure about it to speak so confidently, despite the fact that it makes no sense that he could be so sure. It also doesn't make sense why he told Naruto that even if he somehow knew it to be a fact. Were we meant to believe that Sai, again being the socially clueless and inept individual that he is, not only deciphered that Sakura was doing that out of love for Sasuke but also that she was going to falsely confess to Naruto and he needed to warn him so that he wouldn't accept it?

 

His whole spiel is so massively out of character (in every regard. Him and Yamato did nothing but lend support to NS being a thing) that I can't view its inclusion as anything other than a ham-handed to explain (something rather unfortunate) to the audience.

Edited by DrK, 06 January 2019 - 08:34 AM.

[RulesofNature]

To be fair to Hinata, I don't think it made her a bad person. She was just a kid at the time, with her own hang-ups and issues. She should have at least tried - and while it was a half-assed late Part One retcon, Sasuke with all his baggage did reach out at one point - and if she had maybe things might have turned out differently for them both and the end pairing might have made more sense, but she didn't. She mostly just stuck with her romanticized notion of him, a notion I can't even remember (did she ever explain why she liked him during any part of the manga?) That's the weird thing; she never really knew him at all, never made any grand attempts to know him, never even really had many warm interactions with him or even interactions at all and barely did anything but hover in the background. That probably should have been fixed much, much earlier if the ending was intended.

 

But yeah, she should have reached out. Sakura at least had the excuse of just being a cute boy obsessed girl who had no idea what was going on with Naruto and didn't care to find out because she barely knew him. But Hinata was kind of screwed up too. I just liken all the problems with the whole thing to bad writing and what I suspect was probably a last minute decision.

 

In the manga, it was how he kept trying despite his own sadness. Hinata took that as inspiration, using it to empower herself. The Last created this whole scenario of him saving her at a young age by using shadow clones or something, so their love story is based on a retcon. Not to mention how Japanese audiences really hated Hinata's actions in that movie, calling her a horrible sister.

[James S Cassidy]

To be fair to Hinata, I don't think it made her a bad person. She was just a kid at the time, with her own hang-ups and issues. She should have at least tried - and while it was a half-assed late Part One retcon, Sasuke with all his baggage did reach out at one point - and if she had maybe things might have turned out differently for them both and the end pairing might have made more sense, but she didn't. She mostly just stuck with her romanticized notion of him, a notion I can't even remember (did she ever explain why she liked him during any part of the manga?) That's the weird thing; she never really knew him at all, never made any grand attempts to know him, never even really had many warm interactions with him or even interactions at all and barely did anything but hover in the background. That probably should have been fixed much, much earlier if the ending was intended.

 

But yeah, she should have reached out. Sakura at least had the excuse of just being a cute boy obsessed girl who had no idea what was going on with Naruto and didn't care to find out because she barely knew him. But Hinata was kind of screwed up too. I just liken all the problems with the whole thing to bad writing and what I suspect was probably a last minute decision.

 

 

With Hinata, they were definitely ignoring context. She always had a crush on Naruto, but so what ?  she never talked to him, never comforted him when he was alone or miserable, or did anything that a love interest SHOULD DO in that scenario. she was no different than an apathetic bystander truth be told, but because she LOVES the village pariah Hinatatheists praise as a "pure hearted goddess" and is therefore entitled to "her man". But "Naruto The Last" needed the brain washing and jealousy card for Nardo to even look in her direction. so much for "Naruto loved Hinata for all of the manga"

No, Hinata being shy did not make her a bad person, but the fact that they praise her as this Messiah because "she was the only one who cared" is just as bad. She didn't do anything, but admire in secrecy. The old saying is "Actions speak louder than words", but wouldn't mean that actions speak even louder than thoughts? She says "Good luck, Naruto" in her mind and they act like she was the only to give him strength, the only one to have a bond with him, the only one who "cared about him." Completely ignoring Iruka, Jiraiya, and so many others.

 

The problem with that scene is that she did lie, she still did love Sasuke and both Sai and Kishi interviews from around that time support that. Naruto shouldn't have reacted the way that he did but he couldn't have accepted it either

 

Bold: But that is not what they claim is the lie. All the arguments say that the confession itself was the lie. The "I love you, Naruto" part. They never mention the "I don't care about Sasuke anymore" part. See even you are looking at the wrong part. Forget everything else save that one part.

Just look at the "I love you, Naruto" part and nothing else. That is where the argument starts and ends. That THIS was the lie that makes her a manipulative b**ch. Not the other stuff. They completely ignore the other stuff. What about the part where Sakura says "You calling me a liar? You don't understand a women's heart." Or whatever it was.

Naruto also lied in this same scene too as he said that it was no longer about keeping the promise and yet right before their fight he said it was about keeping a promise. Naruto has been lying long long before Sakura even made these lies because "it was only a rivalry game."

Kishimoto's interviews also state she was being an "honest girl" or at least what he thought she was doing. "You all say "Hinata Hinata" and I say "But she is not Hinata." Also later interviews of "SS is a drug addiction" and he "felt sorry for Hinata" making SS and NH a drug addiction and guilt trip. Not only do people never mention this, but they downright don't believe it it be real. NYCC 2016. The one time Kishimoto comes to America and they don't believe these answers exist?

2nd Bold: Yeah well, Sai also said that even he could tell Naruto was in love with Sakura and showed a flashback of Naruto admitting it. Another thing people seem to easily "forget."

This is why we say it is all retcons. So the "pairings" in this series is one massive straight line
Hinata loves Naruto who loves Sakura who loves Sasuke who loves Naruto. Naruto and Sasuke are the only two characters who legitimately share reciprocating feelings for each other and even still proven in Gaiden and Boruto today.

See, even you are doing it, Drk. You take one moment, one instance, and even one interview and say "Oh well, this must be the plan." Turn the page and then the context changes. The interview answers change. The ideas change. Add in the view points of SP who we know are Hinata biased and the only purpose 21111111111cfffv'''[]we see is "Hinata worship retconing."

In the grand scheme of everything...if you take the entire story as a whole with the interviews...you get this Shonen manga about a tragic love story between Naruto and Sakura who love each other secretly, but wanted to pretend they don't and make every excuse. Naruto takes Hinata because since he can't have Sakura, might as well take the back-up plan. Also because people guilt tripped him to be with her. Sasuke doesn't care about Sakura and only puts on an act to get Sakura off his back so he puts in minimal effort. Sakura is basically schizophrenic who has two personalities that get triggered depending who she is around. Hinata lives a lie too, but pretends everything is okay.

This is the weird shounen story ever.
 

These people take random points in the series and extrapolate it to encompass the entire series, but completely ignore other aspects in the stories that not only go against their viewpoint proving them wrong, but might even give a give a different aspect. This is why we bring the idea that NH and SS is a retcon and was never planned because so much goes against it.

One thing I bring up is how Naruto looked when looking at Sakura and Salad talking. He gave this look of like he wishes that was his family. That he wishes Sasuke wasn't an A-hole about something special he has...something he doesn't see in his own family. I never seem use that look at Hinata.Then when you have later in the story of Ino bringing up Naruto's love for Sakura....and people brushing it off....just....why? Why do people feel these things don't exist or they are trivial?

It's like a console war. People want to so bad feel like their investment in a game system was worth it by arguing how great it is, but look at it and you realize that the games suck for it. It was a bad investment cause they never play it, but they don't want to admit it.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 06 January 2019 - 09:30 PM.

[dl316bh]

What bothers me about that scene now is the context of it, which has changed given how the manga ended. Given canon, we have to assume she was lying, so we'll go with that. She really had no need to say that she loved him unless she did or she was just trying to manipulate him through his feelings for her. She could have just said that she released him from the promise. No other explanation was needed. She could even have BS'd about not caring about Sasuke anymore if she wanted. Because, really, what does it accomplish? It confuses the issue with Naruto, who does love her and messes with his feelings for... what, exactly? The next chapter, she's off down the Uchiha brick road and Sai's left to explain what he thinks just happened. It sure creates an awkward discussion for later, namely whether she meant what she said, with the even more awkward admission she lied because reasons.

 

It's why everyone assumed she was telling the truth about that part. There was little reason for her to drag Narutos feelings into it. Taking writers and retcons and anything outside the world of the manga out of consideration, it's probably the worst thing the character's done.

 

In the manga, it was how he kept trying despite his own sadness. Hinata took that as inspiration, using it to empower herself. The Last created this whole scenario of him saving her at a young age by using shadow clones or something, so their love story is based on a retcon. Not to mention how Japanese audiences really hated Hinata's actions in that movie, calling her a horrible sister.

 

Hoo boy. I guess they had to do something. You can't really alter much within the actual manga timeframe, so you either go before it started or just start from scratch. I guess they went with "event he forgot".

 

The existence of The Last is always going to be one of the strangest things ever done in franchise media. Even if someone wanted to believe the pairings were always meant to pan out the way they did in the manga, it's impossible to escape the fact that they needed to make an entire movie as an authors saving throw simply because the manga never bothered to do even the slightest bit with them. At that point, why even bother?

 

Aside from the obvious answer that they wanted a spin-off with the kids of the leads.

[James S Cassidy]

What bothers me about that scene now is the context of it, which has changed given how the manga ended. Given canon, we have to assume she was lying, so we'll go with that. She really had no need to say that she loved him unless she did or she was just trying to manipulate him through his feelings for her. She could have just said that she released him from the promise. No other explanation was needed. She could even have BS'd about not caring about Sasuke anymore if she wanted. Because, really, what does it accomplish? It confuses the issue with Naruto, who does love her and messes with his feelings for... what, exactly? The next chapter, she's off down the Uchiha brick road and Sai's left to explain what he thinks just happened. It sure creates an awkward discussion for later, namely whether she meant what she said, with the even more awkward admission she lied because reasons.

 

It's why everyone assumed she was telling the truth about that part. There was little reason for her to drag Narutos feelings into it. Taking writers and retcons and anything outside the world of the manga out of consideration, it's probably the worst thing the character's done.

Exactly. The context of the scene could be anything depending on the ending. The beginning and the ending are the most important aspects in the story. Take any story and change the ending and see how it changes. Take Toy Story. Change the ending where Woody gets thrown out at the end with Andy saying he doesn't want Woody anymore and the plot of Toy Story 2 makes sense for Woody to choose to stay. Why stay and try to win Andy over when he could be in a museum and inspire children forever? Now imagine Toy Story Night of the Museum style where the toys break out at night and party with the night security guard reliving his childhood with the toys he grew up with.

With making NH and SS canon, then the whole scene does look like Sakura is a manipulative b**ch
Make NS canon in the end and the now scene looks like Sakura truly does love him and the only the part about not caring about Sasuke is a partial lie. She may not love him anymore, but doesn't mean she totally doesn't care about him. Shows that she is over him romantically, but still sees him as a teammate.

Add Naruto the Last where it makes Naruto the bad guy the whole time and we have to add this because it is canon and now Naruto is the most selfish character of them all. He abused Sakura, he abused Hinata, and he worshiped Sasuke more than anyone and he still prioritizes Sasuke over even the entire village. And they say Sakura is obsessive. 

This is the biggest challenge with manga and stories that release on a weekly basis. You have to make sure you have the entire story in your head in general on where it is going to go. Boom...boom...boom. You can't just make it up as you go because then you get problems with continuity. Metaphorically speaking, you have this whole idea of making this fantastic trip to Las Vegas and calling it "The Road to Las Vegas." You can change how you get there, but if the final destination is Reno and not Las Vegas, then it is not "The Road to Las Vegas."

Kishimoto or whoever just...have no sense of continuity. So they had to rely on retcons and more to try and make the story coherent and any and all original intent of scenes previous made are lost. If the whole story is about Bonds...then they failed because by the end any and all bonds are lost on the main character. He had no bond with Hinata and Sasuke and Sakura have no bond what so ever. Their "bonds" if they can call it that are so fake and artificial yet we are being told "they are the strongest bonds in the series."

So who is better? Hinata or Sakura? Neither. In the end they both suck. Everyone sucks. Sure, Sakura might be a little bit better in terms of usefulness overall, but at the end of the day, thanks to the garbage tier writing and focusing more on fanservice pairings than actual story not one character is redeemable and the longer it keeps going the worse it gets.

They are merely arguing over what is better to have: diarrhea (Hinata) or vomiting (Sakura)? Vomiting is probably better to have cause it doesn't smell as bad, but most smart people would chose neither opting to just be healthy. What would you rather have? How about necrosis through blood lose(SS) or internal non-stop bleeding through stomach ulcers that never go away(NH)?

WHAT IS THIS?!

 


 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 06 January 2019 - 10:34 PM.

[FireFox]

WHAT IS THIS?!

 

https://youtu.be/Fkk9DI-8el4?t=26

HELP!!! I'M DYING OVER HERE!!! 

PLEASE TELL ME THIS AIN'T REAL!!!

Edited by FireFox, 06 January 2019 - 11:31 PM.

[Nostradamus]

https://youtu.be/Fkk9DI-8el4?t=26

HELP!!! I'M DYING OVER HERE!!! 

PLEASE TELL ME THIS AIN'T REAL!!!

You know this series is known for doing the impossible and not in a good way, so of course it's real.

[FireFox]

You know this series is known for doing the impossible and not in a good way, so of course it's real.

Yes but still WTF!!! Gaara the florist next you'll see is Sasuke in pink dress playing with teddy bears or unicorns!       .

[Phantom_999]

Exactly. The context of the scene could be anything depending on the ending. The beginning and the ending are the most important aspects in the story. Take any story and change the ending and see how it changes. Take Toy Story. Change the ending where Woody gets thrown out at the end with Andy saying he doesn't want Woody anymore and the plot of Toy Story 2 makes sense for Woody to choose to stay. Why stay and try to win Andy over when he could be in a museum and inspire children forever? Now imagine Toy Story Night of the Museum style where the toys break out at night and party with the night security guard reliving his childhood with the toys he grew up with.

With making NH and SS canon, then the whole scene does look like Sakura is a manipulative b**ch
Make NS canon in the end and the now scene looks like Sakura truly does love him and the only the part about not caring about Sasuke is a partial lie. She may not love him anymore, but doesn't mean she totally doesn't care about him. Shows that she is over him romantically, but still sees him as a teammate.

Add Naruto the Last where it makes Naruto the bad guy the whole time and we have to add this because it is canon and now Naruto is the most selfish character of them all. He abused Sakura, he abused Hinata, and he worshiped Sasuke more than anyone and he still prioritizes Sasuke over even the entire village. And they say Sakura is obsessive. 

This is the biggest challenge with manga and stories that release on a weekly basis. You have to make sure you have the entire story in your head in general on where it is going to go. Boom...boom...boom. You can't just make it up as you go because then you get problems with continuity. Metaphorically speaking, you have this whole idea of making this fantastic trip to Las Vegas and calling it "The Road to Las Vegas." You can change how you get there, but if the final destination is Reno and not Las Vegas, then it is not "The Road to Las Vegas."

Kishimoto or whoever just...have no sense of continuity. So they had to rely on retcons and more to try and make the story coherent and any and all original intent of scenes previous made are lost. If the whole story is about Bonds...then they failed because by the end any and all bonds are lost on the main character. He had no bond with Hinata and Sasuke and Sakura have no bond what so ever. Their "bonds" if they can call it that are so fake and artificial yet we are being told "they are the strongest bonds in the series."

So who is better? Hinata or Sakura? Neither. In the end they both suck. Everyone sucks. Sure, Sakura might be a little bit better in terms of usefulness overall, but at the end of the day, thanks to the garbage tier writing and focusing more on fanservice pairings than actual story not one character is redeemable and the longer it keeps going the worse it gets.

They are merely arguing over what is better to have: diarrhea (Hinata) or vomiting (Sakura)? Vomiting is probably better to have cause it doesn't smell as bad, but most smart people would chose neither opting to just be healthy. What would you rather have? How about necrosis through blood lose(SS) or internal non-stop bleeding through stomach ulcers that never go away(NH)?

WHAT IS THIS?!

 


 

 

What, Gaara doesn't live in the desert anymore?¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Other than that, Yes definitely. that movie made Naruto and Sakura into hypocrites and liars, the themes of bonds did not mean squat because it was not even about that, it was was about Naruto's imagined romance with Hinata actually springing to life and everyone was just jumping on the Naruto X Hinata train *choo choo*. The villain was just used as a plot device to make Naruto jealous and possessive, and that whole kiss under the moon was a plain disgusting shojo parody   Chapter 700 showed Naruto's hypocrisy and lack of accomplishment in its fullest, and in the Sarada Gaiden we see that the K11 have devolved into nothing but shipping fodder so that Naruto and Hinata's brats have an age group to interact with.

 

What actual fan of the series would enjoy having Naruto end after fifteen years like that just to wreck itself even further to make "Boruto: the Naruto generation no one asked for"?

Edited by Phantom_999, 14 June 2019 - 10:34 PM.

[DrK]

With making NH and SS canon, then the whole scene does look like Sakura is a manipulative b**ch
Make NS canon in the end and the now scene looks like Sakura truly does love him and the only the part about not caring about Sasuke is a partial lie. She may not love him anymore, but doesn't mean she totally doesn't care about him. Shows that she is over him romantically, but still sees him as a teammate.

Kishimoto just didn't care about protecting NS even though it was one of the only good things about his dumb story. It was as if he thought that without stuff like that people might erroneously think that Naruto/Sakura no longer care about Sasuke. Or he had Sai say that stuff just to counteract all the focus he put on NS before that. Whatever his real reason was for doing so, I'm sure it was terrible.

 

It was vital to the manga. Without NS, Naruto's feelings about Sasuke have nothing to balance them out anymore and he comes off as obsessed and demented. In what way is Naruto remotely relatable anymore?

Edited by DrK, 07 January 2019 - 02:27 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

Kishimoto just didn't care about protecting NS even though it was one of the only good things about his dumb story. It was as if he thought that without stuff like that people might erroneously think that Naruto/Sakura no longer care about Sasuke. Or he had Sai say that stuff just to counteract all the focus he put on NS before that. Whatever his real reason was for doing so, I'm sure it was terrible.

 

It was vital to the manga. Without NS, Naruto's feelings about Sasuke have nothing to balance them out anymore and he comes off as obsessed and demented. In what way is Naruto remotely relatable anymore?

If we go by the interviews, Kishimoto didn't really care about any one or any thing save for maybe Naruto and Sasuke's relationship seeing how that was all he really went into depth with.

Bold: He is an allegory for how messed up Kishimoto's life is.
 

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

To be fair to Hinata, I don't think it made her a bad person. She was just a kid at the time, with her own hang-ups and issues. She should have at least tried - and while it was a half-assed late Part One retcon, Sasuke with all his baggage did reach out at one point - and if she had maybe things might have turned out differently for them both and the end pairing might have made more sense, but she didn't. She mostly just stuck with her romanticized notion of him, a notion I can't even remember (did she ever explain why she liked him during any part of the manga?) That's the weird thing; she never really knew him at all, never made any grand attempts to know him, never even really had many warm interactions with him or even interactions at all and barely did anything but hover in the background. That probably should have been fixed much, much earlier if the ending was intended.

 

But yeah, she should have reached out. Sakura at least had the excuse of just being a cute boy obsessed girl who had no idea what was going on with Naruto and didn't care to find out because she barely knew him. But Hinata was kind of screwed up too. I just liken all the problems with the whole thing to bad writing and what I suspect was probably a last minute decision.

 

 

I don't either - they're fighting games, most of them don't need plots beyond "there's a tournament oh and I guess the final boss of the tournament is evil" - but if a story is going to be there I figure it should at least make sense. The few Soul Calibers I played were nonsensical to a degree that made the early Dead or Alive games make sense in comparison. I had no clue what was happening in IV. I appreciated Mortal Kombat doing something simple and coherent with its continuity quasi-reboot. I even have fun with the Injustice games, even if the idea of Evil Superman makes me roll my eyes. Such a Frank Miller-esque idea.

Little Hinatatas simply stumbled upon Little Naruto training by himself one day, failing repeatedly but still trying, which she claims "inspired" her and such.

The problem is that this is no basis for "love" or even a "crush" really. As pro-enders and we here tend to say, all it really appears to do is set Hinatatas up to leech off of Naruto so she FEELS better but doesn't actually BECOME better. However, in order for this feeling to continue, Naruto has to REMAIN the "proud failure"'; remain the "dead last", never truly succeeding but never giving up either, and so on or else Hinatatas will completely become the one left behind and the only "loser". Basically Hinatatas uses Naruto as a security blanket but not seeing him as an romantic partner.
 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Little Hinatatas simply stumbled upon Little Naruto training by himself one day, failing repeatedly but still trying, which she claims "inspired" her and such.

The problem is that this is no basis for "love" or even a "crush" really. As pro-enders and we here tend to say, all it really appears to do is set Hinatatas up to leech off of Naruto so she FEELS better but doesn't actually BECOME better. However, in order for this feeling to continue, Naruto has to REMAIN the "proud failure"'; remain the "dead last", never truly succeeding but never giving up either, and so on or else Hinatatas will completely become the one left behind and the only "loser". Basically Hinatatas uses Naruto as a security blanket but not seeing him as an romantic partner.
 

 

Which is really sad and pathetic, since even when Sakura initially expected Naruto to give up when he was having a hard time with the tree climbing, she got to see he at least won't give up so easily when driven to try to accomplish something, given his asking her for some tips to be able to do it. And we also see what you described when it came to the team sent to find Itachi running into Obito so he could wait until Sasuke was done fighting him to sway him to his side and Obito just kicked Naruto ONCE, with Hinata freaking out as if he couldn't take it, in spite of the fact he'd face plenty of tough opponents up until that point, and one kick wasn't gonna slow him down, just like how Sakura told her to focus on Obito.

[Phantom_999]

To be fair to Hinata, I don't think it made her a bad person. She was just a kid at the time, with her own hang-ups and issues. She should have at least tried - and while it was a half-assed late Part One retcon, Sasuke with all his baggage did reach out at one point - and if she had maybe things might have turned out differently for them both and the end pairing might have made more sense, but she didn't. She mostly just stuck with her romanticized notion of him, a notion I can't even remember (did she ever explain why she liked him during any part of the manga?) That's the weird thing; she never really knew him at all, never made any grand attempts to know him, never even really had many warm interactions with him or even interactions at all and barely did anything but hover in the background. That probably should have been fixed much, much earlier if the ending was intended.

 

But yeah, she should have reached out. Sakura at least had the excuse of just being a cute boy obsessed girl who had no idea what was going on with Naruto and didn't care to find out because she barely knew him. But Hinata was kind of screwed up too. I just liken all the problems with the whole thing to bad writing and what I suspect was probably a last minute decision.

 

No It does not make her a bad person. But does that ENTITLE HER to Naruto like her worshiper cult CLAIMS AND DEMANDS? That is the issue here, and also what is the issue is that there is some huge hypocritical "double standard" of "love entitlement" going on.

 

Hinata is entitled to Naruto because she loved him since childhood, but Naruto also loved Sakura since childhood and Sasuke had a lot of fan girls that he did not care about or want, so what is the distinction? Oh, Naruto, Ino and the "Sasuke-kun" posse only felt a "silly crush"? Well Hinata and Sakura's feelings are "silly crushes" too by "that logic". Sakura Ino and their peers see Sasuke as a sexy talented bad boy? Hinata only saw Naruto as a proud failure that gets back up once knocked down as escapism for her own self esteem issues. So, again what is the distinction? Besides Hinata being a a poor poor emotionally abused girl with high expectations from a cold, distant, and almost impossible to please father that started liking the village pariah that 99.99999999% of the citizens hated?

 

In fact, the prime indicator that shows that Hinata and Sakura's feelings never moved beyond "crush level" is that that there is no communication whatsoever. Does Naruto talk about his problems to Hinata like the stresses of his job, or just even spend some time with her or his kids? Nope, he rather get wasted at the bar. Whereas Sasuke does not even talk to Sakura and only does a hi/bye to her and Sarada then leaves. Also, Sakura seems to only CRAVE his affection like the mindless fan girl she was at the beginning so that speaks to me there is no fulfilling relationship there.

 

Naruto and Sakura on the other hand has always showed an equal and open relationship that has been shown time and again that they are "comfortable in their skin" around each other. Through happy and sad times alike they have always been together. They may fight at times but that never stopped or shook the solid ground their dynamic and closeness was built on. They open up to each other, support each other and comfort the other when they are in distress. i never see that with NH nor SS on screen/panel. They are just disgusting parodies of fairy tale romances of just "liking what one sees" 

Edited by Phantom_999, 29 January 2019 - 07:34 PM.

[RulesofNature]

Little Hinatatas simply stumbled upon Little Naruto training by himself one day, failing repeatedly but still trying, which she claims "inspired" her and such.

The problem is that this is no basis for "love" or even a "crush" really. As pro-enders and we here tend to say, all it really appears to do is set Hinatatas up to leech off of Naruto so she FEELS better but doesn't actually BECOME better. However, in order for this feeling to continue, Naruto has to REMAIN the "proud failure"'; remain the "dead last", never truly succeeding but never giving up either, and so on or else Hinatatas will completely become the one left behind and the only "loser". Basically Hinatatas uses Naruto as a security blanket but not seeing him as an romantic partner.
 

 

And this, right here ladies and gentlemen, is what ultimately turns Hinata into a bad person. Not only does she not acknowledge Naruto's skills and accomplishments, she puts everyone in danger constantly when she focuses on him. She' wants to swoop in and save the dead last, never believing he can pull through. So focused on him she can't even do her job as a lookout, or puts the entire village in danger so she can confess before he croaks. She even protects Naruto from their son's feelings of abandonment, simply because she views her own offspring being upset as a minor problem.

 

And then there's her getting upset at a scarf while on a mission to save her sister.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Question... what is your favorite(or least favorite) excuse that Naruhina fans make for Hinatatas?

[Nostradamus]

Question... what is your favorite(or least favorite) excuse that Naruhina fans make for Hinatatas?

She loved him first.

She was there for him first.

Naruto would be such a scumbag if he doesn't return her feelings.

She's the only one that did something for him.