86 replies to this topic

[MonkeysTotallyRock]

one question, isn't hinata mostly an uke?... all the time? she's always shy? i can't really find an example of someone who's always seme. but anyways, in a lot of yaoi fics e.g. sasunaru -- naruto is in fact dominant over sasuke in public because sasuke is so quiet and thus sasuke becomes a semi-uke. and when they're alone during their intimacy, naruto takes on the role of uke and sasuke becomes seme -- so they do take turns, even if they turns aren't 50/50.

[surlymoogle]

IMHO...saying yaoi is an overdone concept is dismissing the genre as a trendy gimmick or fad. It's like saying, "There are too many 'O RLY?' parodies on YTMND; that kitten is so five minutes ago." And, well, it's not a fad and it's not going away. Yaoi panels are popping up at cons. There's a whole con itself devoted to yaoi. Heck, you can actually find a couple of yaoi games for sale at Jlist now amidst the 8 zillion hentai dating sims. (Now if they'd just release Silver Chaos in English...)

Geez... Most Yaoi - and all that uses the Uke/Seme theory - is homosexuality written by people who have likely never met, spoken to or in some cases probably never actually seen a real homosexual couple.

This explanation is I think what accounts for most, if not all, of badly written yaoi. (And even then, in published works that are canonically shounen-ai, you still have stereotypical ukes who look like girls...)

Besides, gay ninja don't make bebbies. No bebbies = no new ninja. I'm pretty sure Konoha would have something to say about that.

Of course with this statement, my mind went straight to mpreg. Yeah, there's another plot device I'd prefer the yaoi community went without. Mpreg is only acceptable when it's written for comedy purposes and is aware of what a ridiculous concept it is (like that FMA one with a sullen pregnant Mustang )

On the issue of "Konoha cannot have gays for it needs breeders!" I've actually read a KakaIru fic that touched on that...conversely, the situation presented there were that a good deal of chuunin and jounin are quite careful about NOT procreating, because they don't want to orphan their kids, or else they hide their kids in other villages to avoid a situation a la the Hyuuga Almost-Kidnapping. I thought it was an interesting notion.

I also don't think Kishimoto would like to come on FF.net to find out that more then half of his creation has been turned to yaoi.

I personally don't think Kishimoto cares in the slightest about either a non-Japanese fanfic site OR the fact that so many people slash his characters. I know I wouldn't give a hoot either if I had my own license to print yen enormously profitable property as he does. If he really had a problem with it, he'd have said something about the scads of Naruto yaoi doujinshi that are being created and sold by artists in HIS country.

Heck, even JK Rowling has said that while she finds some of the HP fanfic to be "a bit scary" (she probably stumbled across a Harry/Draco or Harry/Giant Squid fic), she just lets them do their thing as opposed to certain other control-freak hack authors who try to oppress ALL fanfic based on their works.

[MonkeysTotallyRock]

yeah, i mean he must be rich by now, and he wouldn't care. if he gets more yaoi fans, that's more $ for him. so yeah.

[Zylia]

I'm just not a fan of the ideals that yaoi portrays. The seme/uke thing is my main problem, and stereotypical personas people put onto already established characters. I know some people don't do this, but then a lot of people also portray a yaoi or yuri couple with an arrogant sometimes adult looking dominant persona with a submissive persona that lquite honestly looks like a child.

[twilight guardian]

I honestly dont care about Yaoi and Yuri. But Yaoi and Yuri is really starting to annoy the frigging hell out of me. Its EVERYWHERE and there is no public place where there is rest from it. I mean, frig, its fine if people like it, but does it have to take over 1/3rd of the entire internet?

[PhantomNinja]

Yaoi Yaoi YAOI! yes it is good, it is very very very good!! <3 sasunaru is amazing... (guilt pairing)

[Kazama-san]

I honestly dont care about Yaoi and Yuri. But Yaoi and Yuri is really starting to annoy the frigging hell out of me. Its EVERYWHERE and there is no public place where there is rest from it. I mean, frig, its fine if people like it, but does it have to take over 1/3rd of the entire internet?

i totally agree it is everywhere on the page where u look for the Naruto fanfics and just put Naruto's name the whole first page is yaoi idc about it but it is really hard to find the normal fanfics

[Choji]

I don't mind reading/seeing Yaoi or Yuri.
I got desensitized to the stuff ages ago, so it just goes over my head.

[Snowfall]

I personally don't like yaoi/yuri stories... I guess I never grew a taste for it, and I hope I never will. I know a lot of my friends actually like shounen-ai and some yaoi, but there also some who can't stand the stuff. And plus, yaoi is just begining to get really huge now. The way I actually see it is that right now it's just a huge fad that's going to reach it's highest potential and then it's going to start sinking again. It all depends on the people who read the story/manga or watch the anime/show.

[Fallen_Angel]

nope aint happening... personally they are every where and some of them dont have any 'form' at all: i have read a few once in a while by accident. I mean i started reading this great story then out of nowhere (i mean it said no warning or anything) it starts to become yaoi same with some of the yuri ones. It just seems like it is getting a little too overboard. Like a couple of message boards i was on: just turned and every one was saying yaoi this or yuri that....*sigh* some good people were lost: anyways that is my take on it: BAD (to much)

[Broken Figurine]

IMHO...saying yaoi is an overdone concept is dismissing the genre as a trendy gimmick or fad. It's like saying, "There are too many 'O RLY?' parodies on YTMND; that s*** is so five minutes ago." And, well, it's not a fad and it's not going away. Yaoi panels are popping up at cons. There's a whole con itself devoted to yaoi. Heck, you can actually find a couple of yaoi games for sale at Jlist now amidst the 8 zillion hentai dating sims. (Now if they'd just release Silver Chaos in English...)

Geez... Most Yaoi - and all that uses the Uke/Seme theory - is homosexuality written by people who have likely never met, spoken to or in some cases probably never actually seen a real homosexual couple.

This explanation is I think what accounts for most, if not all, of badly written yaoi. (And even then, in published works that are canonically shounen-ai, you still have stereotypical ukes who look like girls...)

Besides, gay ninja don't make bebbies. No bebbies = no new ninja. I'm pretty sure Konoha would have something to say about that.

Of course with this statement, my mind went straight to mpreg. Yeah, there's another plot device I'd prefer the yaoi community went without. Mpreg is only acceptable when it's written for comedy purposes and is aware of what a ridiculous concept it is (like that FMA one with a sullen pregnant Mustang )

On the issue of "Konoha cannot have gays for it needs breeders!" I've actually read a KakaIru fic that touched on that...conversely, the situation presented there were that a good deal of chuunin and jounin are quite careful about NOT procreating, because they don't want to orphan their kids, or else they hide their kids in other villages to avoid a situation a la the Hyuuga Almost-Kidnapping. I thought it was an interesting notion.

I also don't think Kishimoto would like to come on FF.net to find out that more then half of his creation has been turned to yaoi.

I personally don't think Kishimoto cares in the slightest about either a non-Japanese fanfic site OR the fact that so many people slash his characters. I know I wouldn't give a hoot either if I had my own license to print yen enormously profitable property as he does. If he really had a problem with it, he'd have said something about the scads of Naruto yaoi doujinshi that are being created and sold by artists in HIS country.

Heck, even JK Rowling has said that while she finds some of the HP fanfic to be "a bit scary" (she probably stumbled across a Harry/Draco or Harry/Giant Squid fic), she just lets them do their thing as opposed to certain other control-freak hack authors who try to oppress ALL fanfic based on their works.

You can freely say things are overdone. If every cake convention served mostly chocolate cake, and there was only a few stawberry or vannillas around you'd ask yourslef "What's with this large obsession with chocolate cake? I like chocolate cake... But man there's so much of it!" If they want a con completely devoted to Yaoi--That's even better. Than those people who love it so much like that can fully enjoy it while the other fanbase pairings enjoy theirs.

I agree with the whole seme-uke thing. It's like... Where the heck did you come up with this? And if that accounts for all the /badly/ written fic, then there is a heck of a lot of bad yaoi fics out there because that's all I see when I read them. Yaoi feels less of actual love and such, and more like a Holliwood style romance that female otakus created. I support real homosexuallity 200%, I myself have been in a same gender relationship and have friends in it... But everything I've seen in anime and what 'fangirls' make it out to be feels wrong.

THEN AGAIN--This is anime/manga. You'd be hard pressed to find true, uncliched love. I'm into Yuri because there is so little of it, and I don't feel like I'm following some large crowd. But even Yuri has lots of bad points. I guess in the end it's all up to your own interests. For me I like Het, and maybe I can pull the occasional Yuri. I won't say Yaoi/Yuri is bad, or that it should be 'gone' but I just won't read it.

[Nate River]

Good or Bad? It's really neither. There is nothing inherently wrong with it. I don't like it either Yaoi or Yuri.

I agree with desaix though its reputation is horrible; worse than either het or yuri. I think part of it, is that Uke/Seme theme that is prevelent throughout the fandom.

And agree with surglymoogle when she said that yaoi fangirls find subtext everywhere. Talking to others, I think some of the frustration comes from this. That every antagonistic male relationship turns into mass yaoi fodder, specifically Uke/Seme fodder.

I'd agree the Uke/Seme is one of the bigger reasons yaoi has such a bad reputation. One of the other ones comes from the perception that it devours fandoms in animes where there really isn't an yaoi, subtext or otherwise. My initial enterence in to Naruto was similar desaix's, that the yaoi pairings were the predominant ones. Naruto is much more balanced now.

I can imagine situations in which things like SasuNaru might work, but Uke/Seme isn't one of them.

[Gnosismaster]

Ehh, i like Yuri.

Yaoi is gross and should be banned everywhere.

[MonkeysTotallyRock]

Good or Bad? It's really neither. There is nothing inherently wrong with it. I don't like it either Yaoi or Yuri.

I agree with desaix though its reputation is horrible; worse than either het or yuri. I think part of it, is that Uke/Seme theme that is prevelent throughout the fandom.

And agree with surglymoogle when she said that yaoi fangirls find subtext everywhere. Talking to others, I think some of the frustration comes from this. That every antagonistic male relationship turns into mass yaoi fodder, specifically Uke/Seme fodder.

I'd agree the Uke/Seme is one of the bigger reasons yaoi has such a bad reputation. One of the other ones comes from the perception that it devours fandoms in animes where there really isn't an yaoi, subtext or otherwise. My initial enterence in to Naruto was similar desaix's, that the yaoi pairings were the predominant ones. Naruto is much more balanced now.

I can imagine situations in which things like SasuNaru might work, but Uke/Seme isn't one of them.

i'm curious as to how would one portray two ppl then? i mean in het, the male is usually dominant over the female (except in shikamaru and temari's case XD haha) , and in yuuri isn't one girl like more dominant than the other? like how else would someone portray it? i agree not every can fit into the role of seme/uke and thus yaoi doesn't really portray things accurately, but how else?

[icyxwind]

i'm curious as to how would one portray two ppl then? i mean in het, the male is usually dominant over the female (except in shikamaru and temari's case XD haha) , and in yuuri isn't one girl like more dominant than the other? like how else would someone portray it? i agree not every can fit into the role of seme/uke and thus yaoi doesn't really portray things accurately, but how else?

Maybe you could make both equally dominant... though that would be hard to pull off. Like one dominates sometimes and the other as well.
Heh, I don´t mind yaoi or yuri , if I found some in a fanfic I wouldn´t mind it, and if I found a good fanfic I would read it. Try not to make your decisions based on somebody elses opinion though.

[MonkeysTotallyRock]

Maybe you could make both equally dominant... though that would be hard to pull off. Like one dominates sometimes and the other as well.
Heh, I don´t mind yaoi or yuri , if I found some in a fanfic I wouldn´t mind it, and if I found a good fanfic I would read it. Try not to make your decisions based on somebody elses opinion though.

i share the same opinion. me good with yaoi and yuri.

yup.

[Vespar]

Though I don't read yaoi, I have read some bad het fics in general and I think the problem with the seme/uke theory is that it's too... stereo-typically fairy-tale. Two people meet, one's smooth, the other titters, sometimes there's a complication (probably death/a dragon/a poison apple) and then happily ever after -all in the same breath. Yes, I was referencing badly written NaruHina. So sue me. Just don't Mary Sue me.

Seriously, no one ever asks how Snow White found the marriage after a week in.

Oh and MTS, though I don't really write romance, I can definitely say that no one in a relationship is just going to be a doormat and just let things happen. Unless they're Ayanami Rei, but that's another story altogether.

[icyxwind]

Yeah, that seme/uke gets in my nerves. I´t quite unrealistic and stereotypical, though I have read some good fanfiction portraying the characters quite realistically.

[Chrystaline]

When I read pairing fic I'll read either yaoi, yuri, or het, depending on the fandom and my taste for the pairings. Of course there are pairings I'll be drawn to more since I like their chemistry or whatnot (that's NaruSaku for me in Naruto!), but as long as the pairing is written believably I'll give it a read!

[ebonyrose]

Actually, I never hated yaoi as much until I actually became acqainted with the Naruto fandom, and then I realized I hated it. And the very fact that this topic even exist on a site dedicated to a het couple only makes me hate it more. As someone posted, it's as if you can't enjoy a single anime/manga ect. without some yaoi fan bringing up the topic of what two guys look good doing one another. Dear god why? And the most favored reply by yaoi fans are, if you don't like, don't look/read. Well, that's all fine and dandy, except it is not we who enjoy het stuff who are impeding into your section of the sand box but the other way around.

Naruto is not nor will it ever be shounen-ai, nor is bleach, or Inuyasha, or Vampire Knight or Beserk, and yet i can find more yaoi related materials for these fandoms then I can the latter. And again this is when I am looking for the het stuff which makes it allt he more annoying. I am a heterosexual female. I like...no... love men. I love everything about them from the exotic flavors they come in all the way down to the interaction these men have with the opposite sex. I love the male female dynamic. Thus I seek things that reflect my interest. I don't actively nor passively seek yaoi. In fact, I go out of my way to avoid it, but I am still forced to be bothered with it in places I would expect not to find it at all. So is it g bad? The genre itself not particularly. I don't like it, and never will. Albeit I have written yaoi before. What I truly despise about yaoi is more the fanbase, and their need to make yaoi a topic when it has nothing to do with most series that are over run with the stuff. That's what I find bad about it.