26 replies to this topic

[kirabook]

So, in the most recent chapter we got a glimpse of where the Uzumaki clan used to be.




Question is, is this the place that was destroyed by war? It seems like it was EXTREMELY close to Konoha, like walking distance. (One said it was far, the other said it was just the outskirts, I'm going with outskirts since they got from there to Konoha so fast)

1. How has Naruto not come across this location?
   It seems like it's in walking distance. Maybe not viewing distance because of all the trees, but given Naruto was such a free soul back in the day, how didn't he stumble across it? Why hasn't anyone told him it was there? He grew up all alone and lonely, thinking he was abandoned or that he had nothing left and no family (dead or alive), his last name is Uzumaki, why didn't Sandaime at least introduce Naruto to that place when he was old enough? I mean, I can understand not telling him about Namikaze, but again, his last name is Uzumaki, it's obvious he is of the Uzumaki clan(it's not a secret), introduce him to his heritage!
2. How did it get destroyed when it's SO close to Konoha?
   Again, it seems like it's within walking distance. If this is the whole eddy village, how is it possible that it got so incredibly destroyed when it's so closer to Konoha? I've been feeling for a good while now that Konoha is full of incompetence. I mean, not all the time, but they make such huge mistakes, especially with security.
3. Is this proof that Kishi isn't really planning ahead and just bringing in random things to try and make sense of things?
   This Uzumaki clan ruins bit seems really important to me. I can't believe it wasn't introduced way earlier or that we haven't seen Naruto stumble across it sooner. Why are we being introduced to this with Sasuke of all people? Just, what in the world. Is this just another example of Kishi pulling stuff out of nowhere?
   
   If Kishi doesn't have Naruto find or see this place later, I will be seriously disappointed.

[CloudMountainJuror]

This whole chapter was full of pulling stuff out of nowhere. Not just the ruins, but the magical mask that summons and controls the demon god, the zetsu following Sasuke, Orochimaru and Sasuke acting completely sane in comparison to how they were, just...ridiculous.

[kirabook]

I don't find the masks to be too ridiculous, they invented the death god technique after all.

To me, the Uzumaki clan has always seemed mysterious and very powerful. It just seems like you can do so much with sealing, who knows what amazing things they have created. Their stamina and lifespan seem supernatural. I think having a few crazy masks isn't too out there.

[Konohakitten]

How did it get destroyed when it's SO close to Konoha?

If Kishi doesn't have Naruto find or see this place later, I will be seriously disappointed.
[/list]

You know I asked myself that after I read the chapter. I was under the impression that the Uzumaki clan wasn't in or even near Konoha. I always thought they were just close allies to Konoha, kinda like what Suna is now with them. At least I dont remember Kishi going more into detail about their clan being part or so close to Konoha. I also agree that now Naruto needs to be shown these ruins. It would be a waste to tease us and not go back to the ruins at all.

This whole chapter was full of pulling stuff out of nowhere. Not just the ruins, but the magical mask that summons and controls the demon god, the zetsu following Sasuke, Orochimaru and Sasuke acting completely sane in comparison to how they were, just...ridiculous.

I agree with you on about stuff being pulled out of nowhere. I found the Uzumaki ruins being so close to the village ridiculous, you would think Naruto would have run into them at least once in his life. Plus I couldn't get over the fact that Sasuke and his group were walking around the village all nonchalant. Not a single villager seemed to noticed four suspicious characters all shrouded in black robes. Aside of from that I liked the chapter because it was the first time I enjoyed a chapter about Sasuke. There wasn't like 10 chapters with him getting to his destination. No it was short, sweet, simple, and down to the point.

[sushi.]

Hey, I'm having a school project about Japanese culture and I just came across something that might be interesting.

Scroll down a bit, the picture down to the left.
That orange mask looks like the one Orochimaru was wearing. I don't know if Kishi pulled this idea out in a matter of seconds, but something has certainly inspired him. I don't know what it means, but that block of text says something about Hell scrolls and the Six paths. Unless it's only my imagination, but they look exactly alike. XD

[kirabook]

I've seen that mask often in different many mangas, it has something to do with the culture even if I don't know exactly what.

[avengeme]

konoha has the worst security ever 2st a 12 year old who flunked the academy 3times can steal a scroll full of powerful forbidden jutsu, 2nd rogue nin can just invade knoha with large armies with no one noticing till its to late, 3rd a group of mysterious strnagers with black robes can walk into an aroud the village(while its soliders are off at war) with no one being suspicious, and 4th they just leave a powerful artifact lying in a ruined temple beggin to be stolen. im glad i dont live in konoha

[Strangelove]

Remember that the Whirpool village and the Hidden Leaf were very close. So a temple owned by the main clan of Whirpool within walking distance of the Hidden Leaf wouldn't be uncommon, considering the first lady of Konoha belonged to that clan.


Also...if Naruto wasn't introduced to the place, might have been for his own protection. Or maybe it isn't within walking distance, for all we know it was hidden maybe even for Konoha...I mean the ability to let the Death God control your body....sounds like the recipe for trouble to me.

It probably wasn't destroyed...It was probably abandoned. Considering the masks remained intact. Nature probably took its course, and entropy handled the job.

Edited by Strangelove, 01 February 2013 - 10:44 PM.

[narusaku4ver]

This whole chapter was full of pulling stuff out of nowhere. Not just the ruins, but the magical mask that summons and controls the demon god, the zetsu following Sasuke, Orochimaru and Sasuke acting completely sane in comparison to how they were, just...ridiculous.

Just came across.

Not a bad chapter. However, had this opinion, for trying to tackle another perspective. As construction of plot and direction really was something faintly, more elements and situations drawn from nowhere and based on nothing. However, in order to move the plot and complicate situations beyond remedy and generate new mysteries, until it was something good.

Apparently Kishimoto really is approaching the final outcome, he has used all the characters that could, even those who could not, and shall have no further conflict (in the plot, not physical) to enter. It is important that Naruto is completed without further delay, there is much glare, meaning and message of the work has already been lost.

However some things are harder to digest than the usual rolled Kishimoto. Among them:
One. Naruto was never a work with objects or magical artifacts, not during the classic, drawing scrolls and writings, which have no power of their own and are just ways to knowledge, few weapons have special abilities and skills still were not coming from themselves (as kunais Minato, knives Asuma and etc). Moreover, even the Elite Swordsmen, had median weapons powers, except Samehada.

And now what do we have? Treasures of the Hermit and a mask with the power to summon the Shinigami. Damn, if this mask had a power so absurd, why Orochimaru not get it before? And if others knew, why nobody ever went after it?kitten...

It's so stupid that when he lose his arms he was going to go after tsunade how it was possible when he knew about this mask all along?

And that Orochimaru got a powerup in a chapter regained his arms, acquired Senju cells and still managed to without having the necessary requirements, invoking the 4 Hokages. By the way, do not even remember anymore, but Orochimaru had not been healed to switch bodies? He could only perform jutsus that required no sealings?

Edited by narusaku4ver, 01 February 2013 - 10:54 PM.

[六道仙人]

No, Oro at that time didn't know the shiki fuujin yet... In fact, if you look back at orochimaru's attack against Konoha, when Sarutobi uses the Shiki fuujin says to Orochimaru: "This is... the technique used by the hero of the village once a time...", Orochimaru replies with a surprised face "So... this is... the technique which the fourth used to seal the nine-tails!". He even screamed when he seen the shinigami's face.

Conclusion: The shiki fuujin was an unkown technique to Orochimaru. When he went to Tsunade for recovering his arms with her healing techniques Orochimaru hadn't still studied the technique. He must studied it in these 3 years in order to get again his arms.

I don't see any inconsistency, at least here...

Edited by 六道仙人, 01 February 2013 - 11:02 PM.

[narusaku4ver]

No, Oro at that time didn't know the shiki fuujin yet... In fact, if you look back at orochimaru's attack against Konoha, when Sarutobi uses the Shiki fuujin says to Orochimaru: "This is... the technique used by the hero of the village once a time...", Orochimaru replies with a surprised face "So... this is... the technique which the fourth used to seal the nine-tails!". He even screamed when he seen the shinigami's face.

Conclusion: The shiki fuujin was an unkown technique to Orochimaru. When he went to Tsunade for recovering his arms with her healing techniques Orochimaru hadn't still studied the technique. He must studied it in these 3 years in order to get again his arms.

I don't see any inconsistency, at least here...

He wanted Sasuke's body for the same reason that Kabuto knew the problem is that, if he was afte Sasuke so it was kinda obvious that he knew about Senju and uzumaki and other stuff because way before he even "made" Yamato.
So he knew about the mask and the uzumaki clan stuff.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Theme of the Chapter of the Week: "Suddenly. World-building!"

Certainly more valid than the whole, "OMFG! Hinata and Naruto held hands!" and "OMFG, where's Sakura?!" of the last 2 themes of the week.

Anyway, said it again, and will say it now: This is the result of kishi over-extending himself. If he introduced everything after the Bridge of Heaven-Earth mini-arc and the Introduction of Killer Bee arc much more slowly, we wouldn't have all these weird world-building situated so randomly at the end of a War arc.

Heck, this upcoming arc would feel nice at home around after the Pein Invasion arc. Naruto's helping with rebuilding when he discovers this wrecked shrine near Konoha.... It's all kinda reversed....

[六道仙人]

He wanted Sasuke's body for the same reason that Kabuto knew the problem is that, if he was afte Sasuke so it was kinda obvious that he knew about Senju and uzumaki and other stuff because way before he even "made" Yamato.
So he knew about the mask and the uzumaki clan stuff.

he didn't know the shiki fuujin. It have explained perfectly during the fight against Sarutobi. You can read that in chapter 122

Sarutobi says "Orochimaru! I'll show you a special jutsu from now that even you don't know about!Shiki Fuujin!"
In chapter 123, after Sarutobi blocked the two immortal hokages with the shiki fuujin (cleaning the shodai's genjutsu), Orochimaru says "The darkness is disapperad...!What's that jutsu?!"
You can read even the chapter 124 at the end for understanding that Orochimaru didn't know about the shiki fuujin.

Pursuing an uchiha body doesn't mean that he knew everything. At that time Orochimaru wanted an uchiha's body for the acknowledge of ever ninjutsu of the world. I guess that at that time Kishimoto just still haven't the rinnegan in his mind.

So, no... Orochimaru didn't know about the shiki fuujin as the chapters themselfes explains.

Edited by 六道仙人, 01 February 2013 - 11:41 PM.

[narusaku4ver]

Theme of the Chapter of the Week: "Suddenly. World-building!"

Certainly more valid than the whole, "OMFG! Hinata and Naruto held hands!" and "OMFG, where's Sakura?!" of the last 2 themes of the week.

Anyway, said it again, and will say it now: This is the result of kishi over-extending himself. If he introduced everything after the Bridge of Heaven-Earth mini-arc and the Introduction of Killer Bee arc much more slowly, we wouldn't have all these weird world-building situated so randomly at the end of a War arc.

Heck, this upcoming arc would feel nice at home around after the Pein Invasion arc. Naruto's helping with rebuilding when he discovers this wrecked shrine near Konoha.... It's all kinda reversed....

The shrine is far from konoha all this is not happening simultaneously, Sasuke reached the village when Naruto entered on the complete bijuu mode for the first time

[James S Cassidy]

There are answers to these question, but the answer is do you care to accept them?

[*]How has Naruto not come across this location?
It seems like it's in walking distance. Maybe not viewing distance because of all the trees, but given Naruto was such a free soul back in the day, how didn't he stumble across it? Why hasn't anyone told him it was there? He grew up all alone and lonely, thinking he was abandoned or that he had nothing left and no family (dead or alive), his last name is Uzumaki, why didn't Sandaime at least introduce Naruto to that place when he was old enough? I mean, I can understand not telling him about Namikaze, but again, his last name is Uzumaki, it's obvious he is of the Uzumaki clan(it's not a secret), introduce him to his heritage!

I could argue that Naruto never questioned his heritage nor cared to know. Even when he was younger, he never seemed curious at all about who is father and mother was let alone his clan heritage. Mostly because I believe he never thought that "clans" made anyone better or worse. Unlike say the Uchiha who thought being a clan was everything. Even the Uzumaki clan sort of "disbanded" and just mixed in with all other cultures and clans.

And who says he didn't come across the ruins? Maybe he just didn't care to explore.

[*]How did it get destroyed when it's SO close to Konoha?
Again, it seems like it's within walking distance. If this is the whole eddy village, how is it possible that it got so incredibly destroyed when it's so closer to Konoha? I've been feeling for a good while now that Konoha is full of incompetence. I mean, not all the time, but they make such huge mistakes, especially with security.

After all the village has been through you're surprised it was destroyed? We also have the fact that Mizuki might have told him how to get it which he might have the prowess to or alter it so they Naruto could get it easier. We also have that the Konoha are very...trusting people. Almost too trusting at times. This is both a strength and a weakness.

[*]Is this proof that Kishi isn't really planning ahead and just bringing in random things to try and make sense of things?
This Uzumaki clan ruins bit seems really important to me. I can't believe it wasn't introduced way earlier or that we haven't seen Naruto stumble across it sooner. Why are we being introduced to this with Sasuke of all people? Just, what in the world. Is this just another example of Kishi pulling stuff out of nowhere?

Maybe, but I still find this chapter better than 615 and I will continue to believe this.

How bad is chapter 615? Put it this way, some of you are pissed about how "off" this chapter is, but to be honest because of how bad 615 was IMO, I have accepted stuff like this even if it was totally forced which is why I am not pissed.

Better this than over forced Hinata "development" and stupid OOC Naruto stepping back ten steps.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

The shrine is far from konoha all this is not happening simultaneously, Sasuke reached the village when Naruto entered on the complete bijuu mode for the first time

Huh? What? I don't understand. Naruto entered the complete biju mode awhile ago.... Sasuke just reached the village around the same time as Naruto gave his chakra to everyone and they attacked the Akatsuki duo.

[narusaku4ver]

Huh? What? I don't understand. Naruto entered the complete biju mode awhile ago.... Sasuke just reached the village around the same time as Naruto gave his chakra to everyone and they attacked the Akatsuki duo.

He entered first before the alliance started the fight then he went again after 615.
Unless they can teleport.

[kirabook]

I don't know you got the idea that this is happening all the way back then. Sasuke felt when Naruto boosted up and started handing out chakra again thanks to Kurama. That and basically putting Sasuke and his crew at some point in some of the recent chapter verifies that this is happening the exact same time as the war, meaning Naruto is getting some off screen fighting time.

When we return, it probably won't be at the same point as when we left. (I mean, this is DBZ)

There are answers to these question, but the answer is do you care to accept them?



I could argue that Naruto never questioned his heritage nor cared to know. Even when he was younger, he never seemed curious at all about who is father and mother was let alone his clan heritage. Mostly because I believe he never thought that "clans" made anyone better or worse. Unlike say the Uchiha who thought being a clan was everything. Even the Uzumaki clan sort of "disbanded" and just mixed in with all other cultures and clans.

And who says he didn't come across the ruins? Maybe he just didn't care to explore.

I was thinking about that, but something so important, I think it would definitely have been touched on.

Naruto said he always wanted to meet his parents didn't he? Or, at least he said something similar when he met Kushina. Also, with the flashbacks we have seen, Naruto has always wanted some sort of family. He wants a family so much, he's willing to accept someone like Sasuke to be his brother.

I think this was most evident when he was training for the rasengan with Jiraiya, he saw the boy and his father being happy and wanted to do the same with Jiraiya, but Jiraiya was a bit of a hard @ss (but later, softening up and getting Naruto some icecream, makes me wonder if Jiraiya knew what Naruto was thinking and what he wanted)

Then there's other things like watching children go home with their parents at the playground, but no one coming for him. And then when Iruka watched over Naruto cleaning the Hokage's faces, Naruto stating he didn't care because he didn't have anyone to go home to.

Sure, Naruto accepted the fact that he was alone and had no family, but it obviously bothered him throughout most of part 1. I wish Kishi had touched on it more because it was interesting to see Naruto struggle with finding people he could call "family" and wishing he had a family. I don't mean to say that Naruto only wanted a family/clan because he could have some blood limit or special family jutsu's, just the idea of having a place where your family/clansman once lived I'm sure would have given Naruto some comfort in his young life.

Maybe I've been reading too many fanfictions, but I can imagine Naruto considering that place a secret sanctuary, although it is destroyed. (Not because of the hidden super powered stuff they have in their apparently, but the idea that that place belong to HIS family)

After all the village has been through you're surprised it was destroyed? We also have the fact that Mizuki might have told him how to get it which he might have the prowess to or alter it so they Naruto could get it easier. We also have that the Konoha are very...trusting people. Almost too trusting at times. This is both a strength and a weakness.

I imagine Konoha of the past to be much more secure and powerful than it is more recently. Back in the Mito days (which is when I assume that place was destroyed). But either way, that place being so close to Konoha and remaining in ruins like that just strikes me as extremely odd.

When the idea of an "Uzumaki village" was first introduced, it gave the impression that a bit farther away and Konoha couldn't have helped in their destruction. I know the main village was destroyed, but apparently these clan grounds were too?

Maybe, but I still find this chapter better than 615 and I will continue to believe this.

How bad is chapter 615? Put it this way, some of you are pissed about how "off" this chapter is, but to be honest because of how bad 615 was IMO, I have accepted stuff like this even if it was totally forced which is why I am not pissed.

Better this than over forced Hinata "development" and stupid OOC Naruto stepping back ten steps.

I'm not exactly upset at this new random Uzumaki clan grounds idea, I'm not even too upset that Kishi is only introducing it now.

I WILL be upset if we see Sasuke and his gang of thieves all up in this place, yet we never see Naruto even knowing it exists.

[Nate River]

After all the village has been through you're surprised it was destroyed? We also have the fact that Mizuki might have told him how to get it which he might have the prowess to or alter it so they Naruto could get it easier. We also have that the Konoha are very...trusting people. Almost too trusting at times. This is both a strength and a weakness.

Yeah, what's up with that? It's host to a military who basic principle is look underneath the underneath. Deception is (or was) at the core of what the do.

There are answers to these question, but the answer is do you care to accept them?

Not if they stink.

Maybe, but I still find this chapter better than 615 and I will continue to believe this.

I think it's more interesting anyway. I'd be high on it if not for the whole stomping on continuity bits and the number of convenient circumstances involved.

[ciardha]

I think Kishimoto might have explained it more, but my guess is it was something Mito Uzumaki had built when Konoha was founded. Tsunade and Kushina should have known of it, certainly though. I would have assumed Jiraiya as well. It was a slip up to not explain it and not have Naruto know about it.