31571 replies to this topic

[ultranx]

hope everyone's been doing well during the pandemic, I'm excited about the new dragon quest and sonic news today. and I want xenoblade 2 and xenoblade x for the switch pro so bad.  but anyways what I wanted to talk about. well I found a series that utterly destroys naruto's writing, other than my hero academia. it has a better written war, better best friend enemy rivalry, better love triangle writing, everything. as for what the show is:   gundam age, asemu and zeheart and the love triangle with romary, and the 100 year war. I now like this better than gundam wing, g gundam still my fav though.

I like this opening better 

Edited by ultranx, 28 May 2021 - 01:24 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

hope everyone's been doing well during the pandemic, I'm excited about the new dragon quest and sonic news today. and I want xenoblade 2 and xenoblade x for the switch pro so bad.  but anyways what I wanted to talk about. well I found a series that utterly destroys naruto's writing, other than my hero academia. it has a better written war, better best friend enemy rivalry, better love triangle writing, everything. as for what the show is:   gundam age, asemu and zeheart and the love triangle with romary, and the 100 year war. I now like this better than gundam wing, g gundam still my fav though.
I like this opening better 

Gundam AGE has its flaws but it really is well done when it's showing like what you said

[Phantom_999]

SS has always been the most popular of the big three in Japan. But even so, the fans were expecting NaruSaku to happen. They know they can milk the pathetic SS fans for all their money because they're still a big portion of the Naruto shipping fandom compared to NH. And they can get away with it because SS is non-existent in the main story. So they'll grab at any tiny morsels that they can.
Naruto disappointed everyone in Japan, so they can't milk him or NH from the Japanese fandom anymore. They would be making way more bank, not just in Japan, if they didn't circle jerk Hinatatas for the unholy amount of Hinatards in the West. It doesn't help that NH was the least popular of the big 3 in Japan.

That user thinks they're flexing on Naruto for SS being more expensive than the main character, but in reality, they're getting taken advantage of and japed for their money. There's a thing called 'character tax' in Japan. Where you can jack up the price on something because it's a popular character and they know that stupid fans will happily pay the royalties for the item. No matter what their place is, in the series they're from.
A good example would be Artoria (Saber) from the Fate series. Because she's so popular, fans are wiling to pay 10 times the original retail amount for her. This poster cost $20 originally? It's now $200. 
Yes, people will pay for it.
This goes for ships too.

I've come to find over the years that a lot of 'official' artwork for a series isn't even canon. It's all fanservice. Even if the studio provided the artwork, unless it's an actual scene from the series/source, it's not canon. It's fanservice. Never happened. They do this to push hype, push characters and even push ships that may or may not have a presence in the series/source.
So they're willing to pay premium for non-canon official postcards. Even IF the scene in that SS post card is possible, it's still rather pathetic. Sakura focusing on Sasuke while he doesn't even look at her. BUT THAT SMILE MEANS HE LIKES HER RIGHT??
Sure it makes it more positive. But geez, he's still not even facing her. That's what you want in a relationship??? For $19, you can have that loveless relationship on a postcard that never happened in canon. 

 

On the one hand it explains so much so thans for the info. On the other hand one must really re-evaluate what is canon then. but lucky for us official NH artwork is non existent or was never popular enough to actually take off. And even if NaruSaku official artwork is just "Fanservice", the story was giving them moments anyway. Yay us!!! lol

 

 

 

I don't really think it would fix things. Like Naruto's problems are more than just who the MC decided to hook up with. There are just so many wasted opportunities, broken morals, Kishimoto pulling stuff out of his ass, the series had some genuine problems and had attracted many haters because of them. If we were to throw the sinking of the SS Naruhina on top of that, I feel like the series would have suffered backlash anyway. Only difference would be a bunch of Hinata fanboys going nuts over how the ending screwed things up, those obsessive shippers would end up attacking the show and it's fans because things didn't go as they wanted it to.

 

The show would no doubt be healthier in Japan and that's what SJ would care about, but it would still be a massive headache for us.

 

It wouldn't. Not on its own anyway. What REALLY would solve all the broken messages in the series was that Naruto became Hokage as intended and started working on own to connect and unite all 5 nations together and not "carrying on business as usual". As garbage and unrealistic as all of the forgiveness crap and how painful experiences made the villains of the story were, had Naruto actually became the "ninja Jesus" then all of those plotlines would be resolved. It would not have been as satisfying and "adult" as we would have wanted, but at least it would stay consistent to the story's intentions. Yes I know that is a hard, childish pill to swallow but honestly speaking it is more preferable to Naruto being the hypocritical douchebag that gives up and goes back on his word now, and painting the elder toad sage as a senile liar, and all the sacrifices and  blood shed is mindless violence that should be encouraged and celebrated. THAT IS what any true fan of the story was angry at, not just the sheer hypocrisy of the story but there was no satisfying conclusion to that hypocrisy either. Naruto did not fix the  broken system that he was SOOO sympathetic to to the point of calling the man that ruined his life and almost destroyed his world a "COOL GUY". "Sup Obito? I'm sorry that you died and am now continuing this pro war and ninja system of back stabbing and spying on each other to always make that there is SOME ONE like you out there. Have an nice after life!" XOXO- Naruto Uzumaki.

 

Naruto X Sakura happening wouldn't have fixed any that, but at least a movie like "The Last" would have been needed to confirm their relationship either. there would be no destroying Naruto and Sakura's character development to make their relationship canon. that is what is infuriating to all of us here. Not that NH became canon in itself but because there was no jsutification of it and the attempt at it made Naruto and Sakura unsympathetic hypocrites. Naruto opreaching about love and compassion whe he doesn't know jack $#*^ about love and was willing to let everyone die because Hinata wouldn't  love him and Sakura being a huge case of "pot calling the kettle black" of getting on her high horse and saying Naruto only loved her because of a rivalry with Sasuke when She and Ino were promoting the same thing in the manga and anime and that was suppose to be a good thing. And Naruito is only in the right of love rivalry if it came to Hinata.  On the other hand I don't think there is anything for us to celbrate either it the outcome of Sakura becmoing a couple with NAruto changes nothing and the current story stays its course with the only difference is now Sakura is the mother. I know it wouldn't but I'm just saying for the sake of argument, so NH can call us hypocrites that would drool and over NaruSaku happening to the exclusion of everything else like them with Hinata-hime- megami- sama.

Edited by Phantom_999, 29 May 2021 - 12:56 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Well, it seems Jujutsu has really taken off since the anime aired. It is selling at similar levels to demon slayer.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 31 May 2021 - 10:08 PM.

[RulesofNature]

Gundam AGE has its flaws but it really is well done when it's showing like what you said

AGE is a guilty pleasure of mine, but I will defend Kio. He's not "Kira done worse," he's "Kira but an actual pacifist who doesn't drop his ideals when it gets hard and the show doesn't treat him like he's the bestest evah." Like, if you know what Kira was called out on in crossover games, Kio makes a lot of sense. Kio is the franchise acknowledging those criticisms.

 

 

"Oh, Kio gets his allies killed." SRW says Kira would do the exact same thing because, by going around attacking everyone who stands in his way, he's not making friends. He's giving people reasons not to listen to him. Kio does not act as an aggressor. Besides, how is Kio responsible for an ally dying when he's fighting enemies on the other side of the battlefield?

 

Besides, those games really hold Kira accountable for all the guys who die as a consequence of his actions. The fact they avoid those colonies getting nuked because he defended Orb and allowed the genocidal maniac to get away isn't adapted says a lot.

 

"Kio prevents his allies from killing enemy pilots." Enemy pilots whose machines he has disabled. You know, there are laws surrounding killing enemy soldiers when they can't fight back. Mika brutalizing Carta Issue isn't something we should be cheering, it's likely a war crime because of the surrounding circumstances. The fact Kira gets called out for disabling pilots and leaving them unable to defend themselves on a battlefield is called out a lot.

 

"Kio's struggles defeating his enemies," Yeah, because he's not out to try and wipe them all out. He's trying to get them to understand his point through his words, rather than simply overpowering them to support his Talk-no-Justu. Because pacifism is about rejecting the idea of violence and war being used to solve problems, it's more than just not killing. The fact is, Kira drops his morals whenever he deems an enemy too strong by saying he doesn't have any choice but to kill them. Kira compromises his message of "fighting doesn't solve anything" because, and SRW doesn't sugarcoat this, he's a terrorist.

 

Kio isn't a power fantasy, and that's a good thing.

Edited by RulesofNature, 31 May 2021 - 10:45 PM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

You could even say Shiro Amada is similar to that. He tries to not kill people after meeting Aina, but ultimately does when push comes to shove, and there are consequences for their actions. In the end, he and Aina never get the fighting to stop and, instead, are forced into hiding together since they were now deserters or even traitors under the laws.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

You could even say Shiro Amada is similar to that. He tries to not kill people after meeting Aina, but ultimately does when push comes to shove, and there are consequences for their actions. In the end, he and Aina never get the fighting to stop and, instead, are forced into hiding together since they were now deserters or even traitors under the laws.

Yep, plus we see how in the UC, Zeon insurgents dont stop for a long time.

[RulesofNature]

You could even say Shiro Amada is similar to that. He tries to not kill people after meeting Aina, but ultimately does when push comes to shove, and there are consequences for their actions. In the end, he and Aina never get the fighting to stop and, instead, are forced into hiding together since they were now deserters or even traitors under the laws.

With Kira, it's a bit different.

 

SRW opined that the way Kira fights is meant to make him look good. He can disable numerous mobile suits at once without breaking a sweat, and the show uses this to show how powerful he is. However, when an opponent can give him difficulty he instead opts to go for the kill. In essence, Kira's disabling of MSs is used as a power gauge by the show, which creates some implications about his mercy. Likewise, he gets called out for acting as an aggressor, going around starting fights while never attempting any form of communication. He maintains radio silence as he attacks people, and then the show acts like they're in the wrong for wanting him taken out.

 

Even Dynasty Warriors Gundam got into this. Dynasty. Warriors. Gundam. A lot of the arguments used against him in those games are the same ones used against Celestial Being in 00s1.

 

He's not a pacifist, but the show treats him like one without realizing how much it undermines it's own messages. Likewise he's also stated to be the next stage of human evolution due to the SEED factor, which really raises some red flags despite him claiming to be a normal guy. This is a guy being presented as a paragon when...when...when his talk-no-jutsu is somehow worse than Naruto's. Because as bad as Naruto has become, he at least talks to others during it and emphasize rather than acting like an emotionless doll.

 

The movies been resurrected from production hell. Likely because time has passed and people are nostalgic for SEED. Part of me wants them to address these things, since I really liked Kira in SRW Z when they did that. But it's the same director using his late wife's scripts, so I kinda doubt it. Imagine if they release the movie only for it to reignite all these arguments again after all this time.

[Bail o' Lies]

With Kira, it's a bit different.

 

SRW opined that the way Kira fights is meant to make him look good. He can disable numerous mobile suits at once without breaking a sweat, and the show uses this to show how powerful he is. However, when an opponent can give him difficulty he instead opts to go for the kill. In essence, Kira's disabling of MSs is used as a power gauge by the show, which creates some implications about his mercy. Likewise, he gets called out for acting as an aggressor, going around starting fights while never attempting any form of communication. He maintains radio silence as he attacks people, and then the show acts like they're in the wrong for wanting him taken out.

 

Even Dynasty Warriors Gundam got into this. Dynasty. Warriors. Gundam. A lot of the arguments used against him in those games are the same ones used against Celestial Being in 00s1.

 

He's not a pacifist, but the show treats him like one without realizing how much it undermines it's own messages. Likewise he's also stated to be the next stage of human evolution due to the SEED factor, which really raises some red flags despite him claiming to be a normal guy. This is a guy being presented as a paragon when...when...when his talk-no-jutsu is somehow worse than Naruto's. Because as bad as Naruto has become, he at least talks to others during it and emphasize rather than acting like an emotionless doll.

 

The movies been resurrected from production hell. Likely because time has passed and people are nostalgic for SEED. Part of me wants them to address these things, since I really liked Kira in SRW Z when they did that. But it's the same director using his late wife's scripts, so I kinda doubt it. Imagine if they release the movie only for it to reignite all these arguments again after all this time.

Swear we have a topic for gundam. Anyways. 00s from the first episodes point out how absurd the idea of creating conflict to end all conflict is. SEED and Destiny never did so from what I barely recall. Other then IBO it probably the worst written gundam anime.

 

Naruto's talk no jutsu is him fighting someone, listens to their story about how the ninja system has worn them down to a cynical weapon, and after beating them tells them not to give up hope.

 

Kira's, from what I recall, is firing his beam spam while yelling over and over, WHAT'S THE POINT OF FIGHTING!!! THEIR IS NO REASON TO FIGHT!!! KILLING IS WRONG!!! YOU ARE ALL MONSTERS FOR KILLING!!! DIE!!!...Or that could be Kamille they pretty much say the same thing.

[Hokage Sennin]

Hey everyone. It's been 3000 six, almost seven, years. Only had the courage to come back now, expecting that I'd find a "domain for sale" page. Glad I was wrong. Though it's mightily cliche, perhaps the real good ending out of the conclusion of Naruto is the friends we made along the way. I recognize a lot of the same names here as it was in 2014. So, about a particular question...

 

So, how did YOU react to the ending?

 

Short answer: JoJo's Bizarre Adventure

 

Long answer: I felt empty, betrayed, conspirationally hopeful. Then I turned angry and disgusted with the antics of the more-angry NSers and gloating NH/SSers. It happened at a relatively mentally low time for me. I remember the following weeks and months doing the motions, eventually cloistering myself from everyone, not touching Naruto/much of fiction and social media with a ten-feet pole. Little did I know it would prepare me for how things in general will pan out from 2015-2020.

 

Naruto's ending also shattered my expectations of what a writer will or will not do. One of my last posts here is a proclamation of how sure I am that NS will be canon, a celebratory and ultimately foolish statement. Chapters 699 and 700 did an about face in Sakura's characterization and destroyed all my assumptions behind me supporting NS. Now, I still ship it conditionally. Their dynamic from the start of Shippuden up to 698 is beautiful and I maintain that it was most likely to be canon. I will be anti-NS (and also anti-NH/SS) for stories set after that.

 

That it took something like 699/700 for it to not be canon proved me right that it is what it will take for SS and consequently NH to work. I respect Kishi's prerogative as the author there, and at the same time, I'll say it is extremely poor writing. It ended up doing all of the Big Three pairings a disservice there in their different ways. For NS in particular, it is the disservice of missing a great potential story there.

 

I've been on the other side of similar shipping debates wars before (I also ship Harry/Ginny which is Harry Potter's equivalent of Naru/Hina there). The big difference was that the writing and the character development in making them canon is more competently handled. Not so much the case in Naruto.

 

I dunno what Kishi really thinks, and I continue to smell BS on him saying that NS is a red herring or whatever. If it is, I'd rather have the red herring, thank you. It was better written anyway. But! If it is not a red herring (which my gut feeling agrees with), he made Road to Ninja to be the closest thing to how he really wants Naruto to end: he was already aware at the time that he has to conclude it a different way.

 

As for Boruto, I was burned enough by the events that I couldn't bring myself to read/watch/follow it. I'm aware Boru/Sara is one of the popular pairings of the next gen. All I see, even if it becomes canon, is discount/consolatory NS. I'll leave it for newer fans to appreciate it in its own right.

 

Back to shattering my assumptions on how an author will progress a story, the aftermath of Naruto's ending gave me a very important rule regarding shipping.

 

"I'll only ship pairings if (a) I'm sure they'll not be canon or (b) the story has concluded."

 

And since it brought me a mindset that in fiction, anything goes, it paved the way for me appreciating the likes of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.

 

Meanwhile, the fans can argue about who has the more canon pairing or healthy relationship all they want while I enjoy the latest JoJo memes.

 

Anyways, if you have AU/point of divergence fanfic recommendations of the below types, I appreciate it!

1. NS-fanon alternate ending

2. Alternate ending with the canonical pairings but with better writing and character progression.

 

PS

Kishi also killed Kurama? wheeze

Edited by Hokage Sennin, 04 June 2021 - 02:40 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Oh you honestly haven't been on since about the time the manga ended. Hello.

 

Hey everyone. It's been 3000 six, almost seven, years. Only had the courage to come back now, expecting that I'd find a "domain for sale" page. Glad I was wrong. Though it's mightily cliche, perhaps the real good ending out of the conclusion of Naruto is the friends we made along the way. I recognize a lot of the same names here as it was in 2014. So, about a particular question...

 

So, how did YOU react to the ending?

 

Short answer: JoJo's Bizarre Adventure

 

Long answer: I felt empty, betrayed, conspirationally hopeful. Then I turned angry and disgusted with the antics of the more-angry NSers and gloating NH/SSers. It happened at a relatively mentally low time for me. I remember the following weeks and months doing the motions, eventually cloistering myself from everyone, not touching Naruto/much of fiction and social media with a ten-feet pole. Little did I know it would prepare me for how things in general will pan out from 2015-2020.

 

Naruto's ending also shattered my expectations of what a writer will or will not do. One of my last posts here is a proclamation of how sure I am that NS will be canon, a celebratory and ultimately foolish statement. Chapters 699 and 700 did an about face in Sakura's characterization and destroyed all my assumptions behind me supporting NS. Now, I still ship it conditionally. Their dynamic from the start of Shippuden up to 698 is beautiful and I maintain that it was most likely to be canon. I will be anti-NS (and also anti-NH/SS) for stories set after that.

 

That it took something like 699/700 for it to not be canon proved me right that it is what it will take for SS and consequently NH to work. I respect Kishi's prerogative as the author there, and at the same time, I'll say it is extremely poor writing. It ended up doing all of the Big Three pairings a disservice there in their different ways. For NS in particular, it is the disservice of missing a great potential story there.

 

I've been on the other side of similar shipping debates wars before (I also ship Harry/Ginny which is Harry Potter's equivalent of Naru/Hina there). The big difference was that the writing and the character development in making them canon is more competently handled. Not so much the case in Naruto.

 

I dunno what Kishi really thinks, and I continue to smell BS on him saying that NS is a red herring or whatever. If it is, I'd rather have the red herring, thank you. It was better written anyway. But! If it is not a red herring (which my gut feeling agrees with), he made Road to Ninja to be the closest thing to how he really wants Naruto to end: he was already aware at the time that he has to conclude it a different way.

 

As for Boruto, I was burned enough by the events that I couldn't bring myself to read/watch/follow it. I'm aware Boru/Sara is one of the popular pairings of the next gen. All I see, even if it becomes canon, is discount/consolatory NS. I'll leave it for newer fans to appreciate it in its own right.

 

Back to shattering my assumptions on how an author will progress a story, the aftermath of Naruto's ending gave me a very important rule regarding shipping.

 

"I'll only ship pairings if (a) I'm sure they'll not be canon or (b) the story has concluded."

 

And since it brought me a mindset that in fiction, anything goes, it paved the way for me appreciating the likes of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.

 

Meanwhile, the fans can argue about who has the more canon pairing or healthy relationship all they want while I enjoy the latest JoJo memes.

 

Anyways, if you have AU/point of divergence fanfic recommendations of the below types, I appreciate it!

1. NS-fanon alternate ending

2. Alternate ending with the canonical pairings but with better writing and character progression.

 

PS

Kishi also killed Kurama? wheeze

Kishi killed Kurama likely because before he had to be put back on as mangaka. The idiot he was replacing already had Naruto start his Suicide Nuke Form. He wanted Naruto to stay alive, for some reason, decided to sacrifice Kurama.

 

Not happy about the ending but its been years, and the constant failure Naruto-Boruto have suffered from that decision has eased any pain. Learn more about corporate innerworkings have long since dashed any hope of them changing the decision, and also a lot of other franchises shatting the bed since has also dulled it since at least kishimoto thought he was doing something for the fans and money.. I avoid looking at any Naruto forum other this one main due to lack of interest.

 

Go look at my summaries where I get frustrated at the genuine almost incomprehensible incompetency of shown in monthly manga that has a weekly anime nipping at it heels until scroll memory left me completely indifferent.

 

BS suffers due to the fact that the anime wanted a new nH with BS. While the manga threw her away to focus on their own Sasuke. Leaving Sarada despite the goal of Bolt's life being to serve as her danzo when she is hokage as well as being the most popular of the new cast of characters irrelevant to the story.

[TheFirstEvil100]

You know me and a friend were talking about if theres any fans that love NH here in the UK because Ive only seen them in the USA.

I mean he lives in Canada and used to be a NH fan but saw the ending I saw how bad a writer Kishi is.

[Chatte]

 

Anyways, if you have AU/point of divergence fanfic recommendations of the below types, I appreciate it!

1. NS-fanon alternate ending

2. Alternate ending with the canonical pairings but with better writing and character progression.

 

PS

Kishi also killed Kurama? wheeze

 

Allow me to butt in and whisper to you this: Kaika Saisei. 

Undergoing. Gonna be NS. 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Allow me to butt in and whisper to you this: Kaika Saisei. 
Undergoing. Gonna be NS. 

XD Nice plug, Chatte

[Moon_Girl]

 

On the one hand it explains so much so thans for the info. On the other hand one must really re-evaluate what is canon then. but lucky for us official NH artwork is non existent or was never popular enough to actually take off. And even if NaruSaku official artwork is just "Fanservice", the story was giving them moments anyway. Yay us!!! lol

 

 

This can be applied to manga chapter covers. Remember the Fantasy themed Naruto chapter cover and the western chapter cover?
Certainly don't remember those happening in the main series. 

[Shashank95]

Hello all!

It's been more than a few years, close to half a decade I guess since I left the fandom, not wanting to think of this series. I was cleaning up my emails and saw so many notifications from discussions on this forum. Old memories called me back here to see how things have been. 

Hope everyone is safe and doing well! 

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Hello all!

It's been more than a few years, close to half a decade I guess since I left the fandom, not wanting to think of this series. I was cleaning up my emails and saw so many notifications from discussions on this forum. Old memories called me back here to see how things have been. 

Hope everyone is safe and doing well! 

Welcome back!

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Hello all!

It's been more than a few years, close to half a decade I guess since I left the fandom, not wanting to think of this series. I was cleaning up my emails and saw so many notifications from discussions on this forum. Old memories called me back here to see how things have been. 

Hope everyone is safe and doing well! 

 

We're doing really well, so it's nice to see you here too, Shashank!

[Chatte]

Hello all!

It's been more than a few years, close to half a decade I guess since I left the fandom, not wanting to think of this series. I was cleaning up my emails and saw so many notifications from discussions on this forum. Old memories called me back here to see how things have been. 

Hope everyone is safe and doing well! 

 

Hello, hello.

 

We're all here doing fine. Returning to the love we once had haha. 

 

I've seen a resurgence in people getting back to NaruSaku fandom and eh, what can I say, it makes me truly happy <3 

[ree]

 
Hello, hello.
 
We're all here doing fine. Returning to the love we once had haha. 
 
I've seen a resurgence in people getting back to NaruSaku fandom and eh, what can I say, it makes me truly happy <3 

Chatte you own a YouTube channel named Chatte Georgiana? I'm just playing a great video from it. If it you really great work and all Pumih thing.