749 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

Before the War Arc, I would have said, "I disagree." Now, I agree.

As many has pointed out here, it should have remained as a background myth and never get involved in any form. It's like if the original Super Saiyan ended up being the final boss. Just keep it as a legend and nothing more.

What pushed me to conclude that statement are the following:

-Reincarnation - arguably the end point of fans losing their cool. I, however, was going to swallow this even though it really ruined the theme and past sayings from Naruto (Neji was right).

-Plot device galore - the reincarnation part where he happened to show up because bad things were going down was bad enough, try having him appear from Madara's half body just because it possess both spirits or whatever. That's just random. It was there to get Team 7 out of there, though more like for no real reason, have all Kages spirit to do the hell just because Kishi couldn't help but get everyone redeem/conclude. No one gets a not happy ending.

-Hamura? Who? - plot device continues with him being added on for not only the already redundant tactic of parallel for SN, but just have more random power up to be more valid. It's more noticeable when no one question his backstory or how he was there yet no mention.

-Kaguya - you already know.

-Toneri - made to make Hyuuga relevant

-Whoever they are in Boruto - they're just there

So having Hagoromo there present really created a train of asspull and random plot twists. Not just him, but his family as well. It's just hard to swallow.

[VanitasDS76491]

Before the War Arc, I would have said, "I disagree." Now, I agree.

As many has pointed out here, it should have remained as a background myth and never get involved in any form. It's like if the original Super Saiyan ended up being the final boss. Just keep it as a legend and nothing more.

What pushed me to conclude that statement are the following:

-Reincarnation - arguably the end point of fans losing their cool. I, however, was going to swallow this even though it really ruined the theme and past sayings from Naruto (Neji was right).

-Plot device galore - the reincarnation part where he happened to show up because bad things were going down was bad enough, try having him appear from Madara's half body just because it possess both spirits or whatever. That's just random. It was there to get Team 7 out of there, though more like for no real reason, have all Kages spirit to do the hell just because Kishi couldn't help but get everyone redeem/conclude. No one gets a not happy ending.

-Hamura? Who? - plot device continues with him being added on for not only the already redundant tactic of parallel for SN, but just have more random power up to be more valid. It's more noticeable when no one question his backstory or how he was there yet no mention.

-Kaguya - you already know.

-Toneri - made to make Hyuuga relevant

-Whoever they are in Boruto - they're just there

So having Hagoromo there present really created a train of asspull and random plot twists. Not just him, but his family as well. It's just hard to swallow.

That pretty much somes up the last 100 or some chapters of Naruto. Asspull and twists that have no pay off or come right the hell out nowhere. Bleach and Fairy Tail have better set ups and payoffs for there twists like in Bleach with Zangetsu being both Ichigo's Soul Reaper and Quincy powers and how his hollow was a good guy the whole time and his mother's revelation about being a Quincy and what really happened that night she died. With Fairy Tail Natsu being Zeref's younger brother and him being already dead.

[VanitasDS76491]

Hinata is not the clan head. She is Hinata Uzumaki now. She married has into the Uzumaki family. She is no longer Hinata Hyuuga. She was revoked of the right to become clan head of the Hyuuga clan. It's either her still father or her sister that are clan head. Whenever a patriarch of a clan has only daughters as children they normally either marry their eldest to a distant cousin or adopted their husband into the clan. To keep thing in the family. Example both Sasuke and Hinata both parents are from the same clan.  Naruto is still an Uzumaki as are his kids and his wife. They are not Hyuuga by inheritance laws. They are Uzumaki, not Hyuuga.

 

If were going down that road Hinata is a more appealing spouse because she a daughter of a clan head from an ancient clan. That's a lot of prestige and pedigree to give your future kids. Sakura on the other hand is for a clan we know nothing about and might as well be new blood/money. Not much prestige or pedigree to give to your kids. That her breast, her absolute obedience, and devotion to Naruto is what is appealing to her supporters.

 

As for heroine Hinata is the worst heroine if you actually look at her story. "Oh poor me. I'm the heiress to the richest and most powerful clan in the village. I was born with not a silver but a golden spoon in my mouth. I'm the one percent of the one percent of the one percent. Pity and love me everyone because I'm shy and can't do anything because I don't put any effort into anything or even try. I just give up all the time. So my younger sister and my cousin who is of a side branch therefor a lesser creature then me are stronger then me because they actually train. All i do is fantasize about a guy i like while pitying my self because i never talk to him ever. Despite him being alone for his entire life and could use a friend. I just watch him from a far watch him be lonely and miserable because it give me inspiration to do nothing!"

I have nothing to add to this since you pretty much pointed everything out that is wrong with this series now.

[VanitasDS76491]

Statement: In the end, Hagoromo and his relative were a mistake.

Agree or disagree?

Not really cause I think it was mishandled, like having him show up in the last 30 chapter when the two were dying for hundred time and giving his power to a genocidal psycho who late became a ripoff of Magneto wanting to overthrow the kage and remake the world in his image good job there Hagoromo, He really had no point in the series. Kaguya was fine but his brother and sons and his brothers kin and whatever branch the two form Bolt factor in to were a mistake.

[SlyNinjaKnight]

Statement: In the end, Hagoromo and his relative were a mistake.

Agree or disagree?

 

People have already said it but I think overall Hagoromo and his relatives were a mistake to add. If Kishi had just kept it just Hagoromo as the shadowy, legendary, mythical figure like he was in the beginning and how the Jubi was just this monster and not a tree/priestess woman thing, I think it would have turned out fine.

 

Like people have said, I absolutely hated the reincarnation aspect of the Sage and his two sons/Naruto and Sasuke, it ruined Naruto for me because it totally destroyed arguably the main theme of Naruto overcoming 'fate' and making your own destiny. In the end, it showed that the only reason Naruto and Sasuke even saved the world was, not because of their own strength, but because they had 'inherited' powers from Indra and Asura.

[Namikaze Clan]

There was also some major plot holes in regards to the sage's family history.

For example, Hamura was the ancestor of the Hyuga family but it was stated he went to live on the moon after Kaguya's first defeat. How did the Hyuga family even start if Hamura never stayed on Earth

[TouKen4Life3g]

There was also some major plot holes in regards to the sage's family history.

For example, Hamura was the ancestor of the Hyuga family but it was stated he went to live on the moon after Kaguya's first defeat. How did the Hyuga family even start if Hamura never stayed on Earth

Let's start with why Hamura was omitted from the legend story, then we can get to the next question.

[rocci]

Let's start with why Hamura was omitted from the legend story, then we can get to the next question.

Because he's irrelevant to the plot just like certain someone

[TouKen4Life3g]

Statement: This series would have been better off with no romance focus at all. Showcase bonds but never get deep as in romance and end with no pairings would help the series to be better than today.

Agree or disagree?

[Hanabi]

HOWEVER, in Hinata's storyline, her 'high-born' upbringing and natural abilities have to be completely ignored to make her a more sympathetic character. Comparing her to Sakura, Hinata should have been on par with Sasuke in her importance and status in the village — she is the 'princess,' she is a ninja with enough talent to get her through her classes and the competitions. But her motivation for everything is Naruto. Not her clan or her village or her teacher or anyone else who's elevated her to her status as 'byakugan princess.' It is a steady march to the end of the story, with Hinata openly declaring at the end that everything is for him. Even Neji's death. It's a downward spiral instead of a story arc.

that title is so cringeworthy. the amount of fanwank..gosh. put the title to shame. kaguya and tsunade are the ones worthy of the title, because they actually proved themselves worthy.

 

for tsunade, i don't even have to list an example because she's such a powerful and emphathetic character who is respected worldwide, even by her detractors (orochimaru, chiyo, danzo). for kaguya, she's the most powerful wielder of chakra and became feared by the world.

 

hinata? she's just a fangirl who can't really fight.

-fantasizing about naruto's hand while neji's body slowly turns cold in front of her.

-after getting captured by toneri he searched her mind.. everything is naruto. nothing of her kidnapped sister.

-running after naruto in boruto the movie, leaving her daughter behind

-get wrecked and waste medical resources

-telling boruto to protect naruto, instead of telling her son to be careful.

 

b-but.. byakugan!

Edited by Hanabi, 19 February 2016 - 02:15 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

That movie did worse for me...

[Namikaze Clan]

Statement: This series would have been better off with no romance focus at all. Showcase bonds but never get deep as in romance and end with no pairings would help the series to be better than today.
Agree or disagree?

Disagree.

If you take out romance some of the issues would go away, but most would remain due to Kishi's shortcomingss as a writer

[rocci]

Statement: This series would have been better off with no romance focus at all. Showcase bonds but never get deep as in romance and end with no pairings would help the series to be better than today.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree.

Imo, It's all about execution.
And kishi is not good on that. Most complain about this manga is not all about romance.

[Nar123]

Statement: This series would have been better off with no romance focus at all. Showcase bonds but never get deep as in romance and end with no pairings would help the series to be better than today.

Agree or disagree?

 

I can agree to an extent because such method still wouldn't fix the problems Kishi managed to create with other parts of the story

[Nate River]

Statement: This series would have been better off with no romance focus at all. Showcase bonds but never get deep as in romance and end with no pairings would help the series to be better than today.

Agree or disagree?

As rocci said, the issue isn't its existence but its horrid execution.

And what do you mean deep? I think the romantic subplot brought out interesting aspects of the characters in Part 1. Do you just mean in the sense it may have been better if no pairings were confirmed because depth doesn't require that anything be conclusively resolved?

Besides, the series's implosion goes far, far beyond the romantic subplot. It ruined Sakura's character, but that's small potatoes compared to the main plots complete destruction of Naruto's character.

Her folding in front of Sasuke is nothing compared to Naruto glossing over mass murder.
 

for tsunade, i don't even have to list an example because she's such a powerful and emphathetic character who is respected worldwide, even by her detractors (orochimaru, chiyo, danzo). for kaguya, she's the most powerful wielder of chakra and became feared by the world.

Kaguya? I guess power wise, but she was such a blank slate of a character that Kaguya could have been an inanimate rock that seeped ninja power from it's cracks and it wouldn't have made a difference.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Basically, I mean don't go to the territory of romantic subplot being used. Just stick to friendship and keep it that way. Many series stick to that and it somehow come off stronger than intended romance. WSJ and Kishi pretty much acknowledged its fanbase in terms of romance, so they have to push the envelope by creating a subplot strictly for it. From fake confession because Sakura learned Naruto loves her to Hinata having an entire movie, it came off cheesy and most importantly, destructing.

[rocci]

That's because people love teasing. You know the "will they or will not they happen" thing.
I don't see romantic subplot in shonen manga as something bad.

[db84x]

Just made fanfiction which correct whats wrong manga, it always work like magic.

[Hanabi]

Kaguya? I guess power wise, but she was such a blank slate of a character that Kaguya could have been an inanimate rock that seeped ninja power from it's cracks and it wouldn't have made a difference.

kaguya is a poorly developed character, but she still made a big difference in their world, making people fear her

 

giving her the princess title is appropriate as she's basically become a ruler of them.. that's how i see it anyway

Edited by Hanabi, 20 February 2016 - 09:59 AM.

[rocci]

kaguya is a poorly developed character, but she still made a big difference in their world, making people fear her
 
giving her the princess title is appropriate as she's basically become a ruler of them.. that's how i see it anyway

The problem is she's never intend to be like that.
She's just kishi way to remove madara.
Have kishi introduce her and homura along with the sage, then it will not become like that.